Westie Skin

zsha

Hi all, our westie is 8yrs old and has developed the westie skin!! We got a shampoo from the vet, injection, steriods etc etc. So that completely cleared it up and all was well, but now it has flared up again....:mad:
What are we to do? We cant keep going back to the vet every time it flares up or it'll cost us a bomb! Do you think seen as the vet knows the problem, I would be able to buy the steriods from the vet rather than having to have a consultation....have any of you experience of this, what do you find best to work?

cocker5

zsha wrote: »

Hi all, our westie is 8yrs old and has developed the westie skin!! We got a shampoo from the vet, injection, steriods etc etc. So that completely cleared it up and all was well, but now it has flared up again....:mad:
What are we to do? We cant keep going back to the vet every time it flares up or it'll cost us a bomb! Do you think seen as the vet knows the problem, I would be able to buy the steriods from the vet rather than having to have a consultation....have any of you experience of this, what do you find best to work?

Have you looked at what your feeding your dog?
Alot of skin issues can be linked back to food allergies

what are you feeding your dog? have you changed food recently?

I suspect you dont have pet insurance?

Junglewoman

I added rice to my Westie's diet, basmati in particular, and it really helped. It was my vet who suggested it.

zsha

Super thanks I might try add rice....We changed food to a hypoallergenic food on vet advice. but no difference really.

Nody

zsha wrote: »

Super thanks I might try add rice....We changed food to a hypoallergenic food on vet advice. but no difference really.

Which brand?

zsha

http://www.redmills.ie/ie/pet/products/product/?id=604&parent=1772

Its this, redmills engage duck and rice

cocker5

zsha wrote: »

http://www.redmills.ie/ie/pet/products/product/?id=604&parent=1772

Its this, redmills engage duck and rice

To be honest i'd look at changing his food, red mills isnt great quality, does your vet sell this brand?

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/

Nutritional analysis
Crude Protein 22.0%
Crude Oil 11.0%
Crude Fibre 2.0%
Crude Ash 7.5%


Thats the contents directly from their webiste, its pretty low quality food if im honest.


If your looking for a hperallergenic high quality food you could try Burns...

http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/burns/burns_adult/156518

Far better ingreditents:

Ingredients:

Brown Rice (67%), Chicken Meal (20%), Oats, Peas, Chicken Oil, Sunflower Oil, Seaweed, Vitamins & Minerals.

I feed my guy Taste of the wild:

http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/taste_of_the_wild/231924
with Smoked Salmon

• Grain-Free
• Salmon & Smoked Salmon
• Omega Fatty Acid Blend
• Antioxidants
• Digestive Support System
• Potato Fiber
• Sweet Potatoes
• Berry Blend
• Tomatoes
• No Corn, No Soy
• Chelated Minerals

While they may be more expensive than red mills you will feed your dog less and he will be far healthier because of it.

also try adding salmon oil to his diet should help also:

http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/supplements_specialty_food/hair_skin/more_skin_and_coat_supplements/139892

zsha

Thanks for that, I don't know if Id be able to afford the really expensive brands of food, things at the minute are tight for us. The girl is the shop told me that this is a very good food, but thinking about it, she'd probably tell me anything to make me buy

cocker5

zsha wrote: »

Thanks for that, I don't know if Id be able to afford the really expensive brands of food, things at the minute are tight for us. The girl is the shop told me that this is a very good food, but thinking about it, she'd probably tell me anything to make me buy

But did you even look at the links I sent on? and the fact that high quality food you actually feed your dog less quantity so therefore it lasts longer.

Personally I wouldnt trust what they say in a pet store at the end of the day they want to move stock and thats it.

90% of the time a dog skins allergy comes down to food choice, while i understand things are tight for you but if you dont even consider all your options then you'll end up paying for vet more which will cost you more in the long term.

for a 15kg of Burns plus the salmon oil will cost you €70, but for a westie will last you well in 4 / 5 months food, so thats not actually expensive.

Its no different if you feed yourself cheap / low quality foods your body will suffer.... its up to you.

But keeping your dog on steriods / anti boitics etc long is even worse for his health.

if i were you id seriously look at changing his food.

zsha

Yeah had a look there at the food..... Thanks very much for it. Can the burns food be bought in any store? Id prefer to be able to run and get some when needed....I will def have a look again at the food, as you say, the steroids and the likes are worse for him in the long run.
The vet only sold, science plan I think and royal canin....

cocker5

zsha wrote: »

Yeah had a look there at the food..... Thanks very much for it. Can the burns food be bought in any store? Id prefer to be able to run and get some when needed....I will def have a look again at the food, as you say, the steroids and the likes are worse for him in the long run.
The vet only sold, science plan I think and royal canin....

Science plan is also good (royal canin not so much).

Yes Burns can be bought in many Vets (but you may pay a little more as Zooplus.ie works out cheaper).

where are you based?

Here is where the Burns stockists are in ireland:

http://burnspet.co.uk/localstockists/ireland-stockists.html

To be honest I would have been the same as you years ago, would have bought direct from vet etc, but Ive been using zooplus.ie literally years and wouldnt get it anywhere else.

I ordered my guys stuff Sunday last week, it was delivered to my work place on Thursday so IMO its pretty quick.

Also try the salmon oil.... or if not get a tin of sardines in oil (they are like 60 cents a tin in tescos) once per week and mush it up into his food, the oils will helps his skin. He will also adore the sardines all dog do.

Just remember if / when you change over mix half / half for one week as a straight swap can cause upset tummies etc.
Best of luck

cocker5

sorry OP also wanted to say if you register with Burns vis the link i already posted they will post you out some small samples etc...

if you move your dog onto another high quality food and with the salmon oil, after 4 weeks you should notice a big difference.

zsha

Super thanks might just give them a go so

DBB

Apologies for the long post, but I'm going to go against the grain here OP, as someone who has dealt with lots and lots of Westies with bad skin, I would advise that you stop feeding ANY dry food to your dog.
First things first. Atopy (aka Westie skin, though other breeds get it too) is an autoimmune disease. It is not curable. It is one of the conditions that Westies are exceptionally prone to. It is an over-reaction of the Westie's body to allergens in its environment which, if it wasn't a Westie, it would probably deal with.
To suppress the allergic reaction, vets prescribe steroids, or failing that, another, more effective immunosuppressant called Atopica, which is pretty expensive but good. Most vets will also give you an antibacterial and antifungal shampoo, usually Malaseb or the like.
I'm assuming you haven't had your dog allergy tested, if budget is a consideration.
About 25% of Westies develop atopy because of their diet. A larger number develop it as an indirect result of their food. Let me explain.
Westies are one of the most allergic breeds you can get. Many of them (far more than 25%) are allergic, at some level, to cereals in their diet. A chunk of Westies are allergic to rice too.
These cereals cause a number of allergic reactions: soft stools, flatulence, ear infections, itchy skin. And so, in the absence of allergy testing, the first thing that must happen is that you take your dog off any food that contains any cereals, rice included.
The next thing you need to know is that more than 25% of Westies, when allergy-tested, prove to be allergic to storage mites. Storage mites live in dry food. All dry food. It doesn't matter what you pay for it. It doesn't matter that the ingredients in it are "hypoallergenic" (in any case, most "hypoallergenic" foods are not truly "hypoallergenic"). The longer you store it, the more mites breed in the dry food.
So, what happens when your westie gets itchy? You go to the vet. The vet gives you immunosuppressants, shampoo, and supery-dupery "hypoallergenic" dry food.
The immunosuppressants kick in, the dog seems "cured".
Owner takes dog off immunosuppressants.
And within a short time, the condition is back, because all throughout the dog is still being exposed to possible allergen in the ingredients of the food, and is most certainly being exposed to storage mites. And so, the condition returns, and the dog gets more steroids. And food. And shampoo. And the cycle continues.
The only way to avoid storage mites is to ditch dry food completely. Your dog will need to go on an exclusion diet in case he/she is allergic to certain meat proteins too. And you will need to keep your dog on this diet for a minimum of 6 weeks.
It can be done reasonably cheaply. If you go to www.zooplus.ie, you will find wet dog foods, the ones I like best are Rinti, Rocco, and Lukullus. Naturediet is good too, but it has a bit of rice in it. No matter which of these you buy, you will feed a Westie-sized dog pretty cheaply. An 800g tin of Rocco currently costs about €2.30 if you buy a tray of it. This is enough to feed an average-sized Westie (8kg) for 3 days, maybe even 4. Do not fall into the trap of thinking that "normal" tinned food will do, it most certainly will not: Pedigree, Winalot, Brandy etc etc contain a huge amount of cereal and very little meat. The stuff I have recommended contain a huge amount of meat and no cereal.
Opt for versions that do not contain chicken or beef, as these are the two main protein-allergens you'll find (you can try phasing both meat types into the diet in 6 weeks' time and if your dog doesn't react, you know they're safe).
Another ingredient which you simply must add to an itchy Westie's diet is oily fish: you can get tins of herring, sardines etc quite cheaply in Aldi/Lidl, mix it in with some boiled spuds, or into the tinned food.
You can also buy turkey in the supermarket if you find it in the almost-out-of-date section of the supermarket, stew it with some spuds, carrots, sweet potato.
Do not give any chew treats unless you know for certain there are no potential allergens in them.. this means no biscuit-style treats, no products made by Pedigree or other supermarket brands, no beef, no chicken. Again, zooplus do a great range of dried meat treats, you can select appropriate ones there. Or just give your Westie raw carrots, or Kong Toys stuffed with fish or appropriate wet food.
Keeping your dog on steroids will almost certainly shorten your Westie's life. I hope, I really hope that you have been advised thus far to wean your dog down off their steroids very slowly and gradually?
I also assume you're using the Malaseb (or equivalent) properly, but I have talked to owners who were not properly advised how to use it properly, so I may as well say it now! You need to wash an itchy Westie at least 3 times per week, and you must get the shampoo well massaged into the skin, and leave it on for 10 minutes at the minimum. As the dog improves, you can wash him less often.
This is all not to say that you should not use the steroids as prescribed, but they should not be handed out like sweets, and they must be used properly as misuse of them can lead to a whole world of problems.

irishlady29

zsha wrote: »

Hi all, our westie is 8yrs old and has developed the westie skin!! We got a shampoo from the vet, injection, steriods etc etc. So that completely cleared it up and all was well, but now it has flared up again....:mad:
What are we to do? We cant keep going back to the vet every time it flares up or it'll cost us a bomb! Do you think seen as the vet knows the problem, I would be able to buy the steriods from the vet rather than having to have a consultation....have any of you experience of this, what do you find best to work?

Hi OP


LIke yourself I have a westie with skin problems and have had many many trips to the vets.
We did a food trial to see if it was diet related, it appears its not. We are managing her skin problem with washes with a medicated shampoo from the vet and steroids. We're so used to her and her ways, we know instantly when things are flaring up and put her straight back on the steroids.
The vet is happy enough to give us a few months supply of steroids without seeing her. But we do bring her in at least once a year for a check up.
Best of luck, it can be very upsetting to see them so uncomfortable

zsha

Thanks so much to you all. DBB you are a wealth of info and spot on on everything you said, yeah the vet has us using malaseb and the steroids, he did explain perfectly how to use the wash and the steroids.
I would like to try the food aspect and see if it is a problem with the food etc....its very interesting what you say about the mites in the dry food.
Out of the wet food, which would you recommend?
Everybody you are v good to reply and its very interesting to learn everything that is said....