Super XV 2014 General Discussion Thread

ScissorPaperRock

Harsh penalty against Du Plessis for a 'shoulder charge' clearout

razorblunt

ScissorPaperRock wrote: »

Harsh penalty against Du Plessis for a 'shoulder charge' clearout

The fall made it look worse I think.
Haven't seen many games live this year but it love the games in the rain!

matthew8

ScissorPaperRock wrote: »

Harsh penalty against Du Plessis for a 'shoulder charge' clearout

Bulls can feel a bit hard done by here, a draw might be a fairer result and appropriate for the conditions. Worst SR game I can remember, this.

Kiwi_knock

10 mins from a Honey Badger victory speech.

ScissorPaperRock

I've only been watching the second half, but Bulls should have a few more points by now

Dull game, but there were a couple of nice breaks

ScissorPaperRock

Force defending well

Kiwi_knock

Superb win for the Force.

LuckyGent88

Pretty average game but happy that the force came out with the victory.

2 try less games from the bulls in a row. Not exactly a ringing indorsment of the bulls style of play.

Taco Corp

Swiwi. wrote: »

Malachai Feki-fùcka-toa!!!

That. Is. Sublime.

danthefan

The player in black wearing white boots is wandering about the backfield like he's drunk. Awful defence tbf.

Swiwi.

pickarooney wrote: »

What a try by Fekitoa. Has he made any noise about playing for NZ or Tonga?

OT, anyone think it should be a penalty for kicking the ball out of play deliberately after the hooter?

The video reveals all. I was half expecting him to say he grew up dreaming of wearing the green of Connacht & Ireland...

And no, can't see why it should be a penalty, although the French 9 (forget the name but definitely not the face) sprinting right across the pitch and into touch to wrap up the 2007 game was class, even though it stung at the time.

Swiwi.

danthefan wrote: »

The player in black wearing white boots is wandering about the backfield like he's drunk. Awful defence tbf.

Don't be a scrooge Dan. That was a fantastic try! Made the defence look poor.

Brian

So many impressive performances by the Hurricanes in that Reds game... Leiua, Lam, Coles and Taylor + Jane combo were outstanding for me.

Swiwi.

The Chiefs injury toll. And it's beginning to tell.

Ben Afeaki - concussion
Aaron Cruden - thumb
Hika Elliott - neck (out for season)
Robbie Fruean - heart
Tawera Kerr-Barlow - concussion
Tanerau Latimer - Achilles
Mils Muliaina - elbow (out for season)
Charlie Ngatai - calf
Robbie Robinson - hip (out for season)
Liam Squire - concussion
Kane Thompson - hamstring
Mahonri Schwalger - concussion

Swiwi.

Swiwi. wrote: »

There's no point making previews, unless you learn from them...

...so time for an early season re-analysis.

BLUES
I predicted 10 could be problematic, and that Benji Marshall was a huge gamble. 10 has been problematic, but Marshall has not been sighted there (Marshall looks let to provide back 3 "x-factor" from the bench). However, Kirwan has surreptitiously stumbled on wider training group member Simon Hickie, and seems to have the answer. The guy looks extremely assured, and can certainly goalkick (22/24 to date). I also predicted lock could be problematic, and I stick by that: Tuitulopou looked OK, but has got injured. I'm still predicting 3rd or 4th, although the Crusaders lack of form means 2nd is still very much up for grabs in the NZ conference.

CHIEFS
Still tracking nicely for 1st, despite the loss to the Force. Still reckon they lack a really top 8, but the English import at lock has looked pretty good, reducing that worry a bit. Excellent squad depth.

HURRICANES
Worse than predicted. Abysmal even. Surely Hammett's last season in charge. Unlucky to lose Shields & Vito before the season started, but under-performing all the same. Maybe if Julian Savea gets a proper haircut they'll go better. At risk of the wooden spoon, and I stick with their tight 5 lacking class, Ben Franks excepted. Still not really convinced that Coles is an AB class hooker. Could be heading for the NZ wooden spoon, but do potentially have the backs to win games.

CRUSADERS
Underwhelming to date. Blackadder has made a dog's breakfast of selecting a backline, but hopefully they will come right. Dagg is once again off-form, and without Carter it's all a bit pedestrian. Still think they'll sneak 2nd, but need to find form fast.

HIGHLANDERS
Much better than predicted. They are playing like a team, and in that way remind me of Ireland. Aaron & Ben Smith are living up to billing, but I've been impressed with the Highlanders midfield, and Lima Sopoaga at 10 (injured most of last season) has been playing pretty well. They have limited squad depth, and this might catch up with them. I reckon they might avoid the NZ wooden spoon, if everything clicked, no injuries, and win a couple on the road, they could get 2nd, but I expect the usual second half of the season slump a bit.

Some good games this coming weekend: Blues v Landers, Saders v Canes, and Sharks v Tahs especially - can the Tahs win on the road in a potential final clash, and will Folau score 1,2 or 3 tries this week...

I give up! The NZ conference is proving a nightmare to predict! My gut feeling is still that the Crusaders will be in the top 2, they have a favourable run of home games to come. The Blues won't make it, JK doesn't strike me as a particularly good coach, and he's made some terrible calls when selecting his squad (Benji Marshall, Malakai Fekitoa etc). I think eventually a lack of depth will catch up with the Highlanders, especially if they ship an injury to Smith or Smith. So after an appalling start to the season, maybe the Canes & Chiefs to fight it out.

In the other conferences, the Reds & Stormers are doing much much worse than I predicted per-season, and of course the Force have come from nowhere. Waratahs seem to be having their usual dip in form, and the Brumbies as always are consistent, and must be one of the favourites. I'd also back the Sharks to refind some form, but they have the away trip to come.

In no particular order: Sharks, Brumbies, Crusaders, Waratahs, Chiefs, Canes, but the Bulls might have something to say about that, they have a run of home games to come.

phog

Cheika gets a 6 month ban (suspended)

Swiwi.

phog wrote: »

Cheika gets a 6 month ban (suspended)

Welcome to the SXV thread Phog!

Yeah, he's on his best behaviour now...

danthefan

Not his finest hour.

Swiwi.

A wee look at the SXV goalkickers. It not only takes the success rate into account but also the difficulty of the kicks.

Morf

Swiwi. wrote: »

He's being a bit coy there, what's his motivation to play rugby when it comes to brass tacks?

Swiwi.

Morf wrote: »

He's being a bit coy there, what's his motivation to play rugby when it comes to brass tacks?

In an ideal world he would declare for Tonga. However, I don't think there's any moral high ground on such issues anymore. He's probably been in NZ about 5 years so ticks the box with the 3-year rule, and he might even have NZ citizenship now, but I imagine deep-down he considers himself more Tongan than Kiwi.

I'd like to see the whole eligibility thing reviewed, but given the voting power around the IRB table is with the 6N bloc, and these are the countries most benefitting from Granny rules and project players, I don't see it happening. Also the Aussies have started pilfering ITM players too as project players, so it's hard to see where the dissenting votes would come from - probably NZ, SA, the Pacific Teams (who have 1 vote for 3 countries), and that might be about it.

As said before most PIs players who pull on the black jersey are Kiwi born & bred, but if Fekitoa plays for NZ, it's basically another Sitivatu situation. The difference here, is that Fekitoa himself took the initiative to ask Wesley if he could have a 5-minute trial, and ended up getting a whole game he was that good. So fairplay to the lad.

NB: had to google "when it comes to brass tacks"...not an Antipodean turn of phrase anyway!

Jacovs

Interesting

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Super15/TWO-S15-conferences-for-SA-20140430

Morf

Swiwi. wrote: »

In an ideal world he would declare for Tonga. However, I don't think there's any moral high ground on such issues anymore. He's probably been in NZ about 5 years so ticks the box with the 3-year rule, and he might even have NZ citizenship now, but I imagine deep-down he considers himself more Tongan than Kiwi.

I'd like to see the whole eligibility thing reviewed, but given the voting power around the IRB table is with the 6N bloc, and these are the countries most benefitting from Granny rules and project players, I don't see it happening. Also the Aussies have started pilfering ITM players too as project players, so it's hard to see where the dissenting votes would come from - probably NZ, SA, the Pacific Teams (who have 1 vote for 3 countries), and that might be about it.

As said before most PIs players who pull on the black jersey are Kiwi born & bred, but if Fekitoa plays for NZ, it's basically another Sitivatu situation. The difference here, is that Fekitoa himself took the initiative to ask Wesley if he could have a 5-minute trial, and ended up getting a whole game he was that good. So fairplay to the lad.

NB: had to google "when it comes to brass tacks"...not an Antipodean turn of phrase anyway!

He mentions "money" quite often and suggests the ABs is a better avenue to make more money was what I was getting at.

Honest about it in a badly worded fashion but not your stereotypical new AB-mould under Henry and continued under Hansen selecting players of "character".

Swiwi.

Morf wrote: »

He mentions "money" quite often and suggests the ABs is a better avenue to make more money was what I was getting at.

Honest about it in a badly worded fashion but not your stereotypical new AB-mould under Henry and continued under Hansen selecting players of "character".

I got it, don't worry! I think he was meaning the best chance to a successful and financially career is via the AB route. This was traditionally the case. Nowadays declaring for Tonga and then signing for your pick of Racing/Toulon/Montpellier etc can be equally if not more lucrative. But of course if he goes the AB route he gets meaningful test matches etc v major nations etc, so it's not just the money.

Morf

Swiwi. wrote: »

I got it, don't worry! I think he was meaning the best chance to a successful and financially career is via the AB route. This was traditionally the case. Nowadays declaring for Tonga and then signing for your pick of Racing/Toulon/Montpellier etc can be equally if not more lucrative. But of course if he goes the AB route he gets meaningful test matches etc v major nations etc, so it's not just the money.

I've no issue with it to be honest, just unusually frank about it.

It's his talent/career/body so let him make the most for himself/family I say.

JonnyF

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_9291149,00.html

strong preference for Asia from SANZAR for the 18th team, but would they consider something really different like having the franchise split it's time across a number of countries, say LA, Tokyo and HK? None of those cities could sustain decent crowds for 8-9 games but you could really hype up three big games in each venue. Maybe base the team in one place so they'd have all the necessary infrastructure but have them move between these cities. think something outside the box like that is necessary to kick pro rugby on in those countries.

you might have that pro comp in the states to feed into it and interest in japan should be rising as the build up to RWC 2019 continues

ScissorPaperRock

Confirmed that Super 15 will increase to 18 teams in 2016, with new teams from Argentina and South Africa, and possibly the US or Asia

http://www.thescore.ie/super-rugby-expansion-18-teams-1442803-May2014/

.ak

Jesus how long will the season be?

Swiwi.

.ak wrote: »

Jesus how long will the season be?

Shorter! By 1 week.

(I hope you don't mind me replying on His behalf...)

CatFromHue

Who will be playing who?

As in do the teams in the Australasian group just play each other until the knock out phase when they play qualifiers from the SA group?

Swiwi.

CatFromHue wrote: »

Who will be playing who?

As in do the teams in the Australasian group just play each other until the knock out phase when they play qualifiers from the SA group?

http://www.superxv.com/42384/1/sanzar-approves-expansion-to-18-teams-in-2016#.U2J9LK1dWkA

Goes thru it in detail...if you have the time and energy.

CatFromHue

"The ten New Zealand (five) and Australian (five) teams will remain in their current conferences but they will play in an Australasian group.

Australian Super Rugby teams teams will play all New Zealand sides each season, compared to playing four in the current format.

A big difference will be that the Australian teams will only play one of the South African conferences while the New Zealand teams will play the other conference alternating year after year."

I still don't follow it

There are 5 NZ teams so if they play each other home and away that's 8 games, 5 home or away games against the OZ teams, and then 4 home or away games against one of the SA groups is 17 games.

But:

"All teams play one less match in a regular season - from 16 matches to 15"

CatFromHue

Wait it says:

For a NZ team they'll have games against SA teams, 5 games against Oz teams, and 6 games against NZ teams.

There are 5 NZ teams though so that must mean they play each team in NZ once but they'll play another 2 games against NZ teams.



What a mickey mouse league!

CatFromHue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfgRGW9Ghik

Swiwi.

I agree. At the end of the day SA were never going to budge on adding that 6th team. NZ were never to agree to Australia's demand to ditch SA altogether. And everyone wanted Argentina to have a chance. I'd say the 18th team will almost certainly be from Asia, with the West Coast of the States and then Southern Europe (?!) least likely.

All said & done, I like the Aussie & Kiwi style of play, and while it's always good to get mauling practice etc v the SA teams, they tend to produce the least appealing style of game.

The main thing I hope is that cash floods the SANZAR market from broadcasters, otherwise the Top 14 will end up like the English premiership, which is great for thomond2006, but not so much for me!

hahashake

What I don't understand is why not have 3 conferences of 6? Have the Argy and Asian team play in either the NZ or Aus conference.

Swiwi.

hahashake wrote: »

What I don't understand is why not have 3 conferences of 6? Have the Argy and Asian team play in either the NZ or Aus conference.

Or the elephant in the room - a Pacific side. The problem is that the Pacific nations are financially very unattractive on many fronts - easier to sell a product to an Asian viewing audience of millions than a couple of hundred thousand people scattered in the Pacific Islands.

danthefan

.ak wrote: »

Jesus how long will the season be?

It's a very short season anyway, they only play each other once plus playoffs. The season only goes from Feb to June or something.

Jacovs

Jacovs wrote: »

Interesting

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Super15/TWO-S15-conferences-for-SA-20140430

Quoting myself from what I posted in here yesterday.

18 teams across 4 conferences.
Australia conference will keep its current 5 teams.
NZ conference will keep its current 5 teams.
South Africa will have 2 new conferences with 4 teams in each. 6 SA teams and 1 from Argentina and 1 from maybe Asia. The Argentina and maybe Asia teams will most likely be based in SA.

NZ teams will play all 5 Australia teams once, only 3 of the other 4 NZ teams twice, and one of the SA conferences (4 teams = 4 games)
15 games total
Australia teams will play all 5 NZ teams once, only 3 of the other 4 Australia teams twice, and one of the SA conferences (4 teams = 4 games)
15 games total

Not too sure on the SA conferences though.
Take a team in conference SA 1. Do they play each other team in SA 1 twice (6 games) each team in SA 2 once (4 games) and then the 5 teams of either NZ or Australia once (5 games)
15 games total

sydthebeat

My head hurts. ...

Ill wait to see it in action

Morf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxZxj94hgOA

It'll be like this.

sydthebeat

reds playing incredibly stupid rugby.
Slipper lucky not to be sent off for a tip tackle.

Reds 0 blues 13
After 35 mins

ScissorPaperRock

Nonu having a great game

Reds are poor

Swiwi.

ScissorPaperRock wrote: »

Nonu having a great game

Reds are poor

Can't watch this but how poor are the Reds this season. The new Western Force.

danthefan

Blargh, I hate really one sided games (that Leinster or Ireland aren't winning).

Mad to think the Reds won it the other year, and are now reduced to this.

bilston

Great try by the Blues

Swiwi.

Blues look a €1,000,000 at Eden Park and €0.01 on the road.

ScissorPaperRock

Swiwi. wrote: »

Can't watch this but how poor are the Reds this season. The new Western Force.

Yeah for all their creative talent, they're playing toothless side-to-side rugby.

Just as I write that they score a try off a driving maul.

34-7, 55 mins

bilston

I bet Clermont wished this guy was Reffing last weekend!

sydthebeat

How did it finish lads?