Moving Out Of Apartment - How Should It Work / Is My Landlord Taking Advantage?

Greenmachine

Can someone explain to me why the op is required to provide 6 weeks notice of their intention to move out and not a month. I thought a month was the norm. I have never heard of anyone giving more notice than a month.

djimi

davo10 wrote: »

Ah no, that's the point we are trying to get you and the OP to understand, he doesn't "lose either way", he has a chance of "winning" if he gets €350 off rent.

The apartment technically isn't empty, it's rented to the OP until his tenancy is up, whether he lives there are not is his business. As Mrs OB posted, he he responsible for its condition until that end date.

He does lose either way. One way means he saves a couple of hundred quid but has no access to an apartment that has cost him €900. The other way means that he pays a couple of hundred quid more, but has full use of the apartment for 6 weeks.

The "proper" solution is for the landlord to refund the money for the time that the OP does not have use of the apartment, but if that isnt going to happen then its up to the OP to decide how they want to play it.

djimi

Greenmachine wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why the op is required to provide 6 weeks notice of their intention to move out and not a month. I thought a month was the norm. I have never heard of anyone giving more notice than a month.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/types_of_tenancy.html

Tenants can terminate a tenancy without giving a reason but must give notice.

Length of tenancy - Notice by tenant
Less than 6 months - 4 weeks (28 days)
6 months to 1 year - 5 weeks (35 days)
1 – 2 years - 6 weeks (42 days)
2 or more years - 8 weeks (56 days)

1 month is not the norm; once your tenancy runs over into a part 4 tenancy then you are required by law to give the above notice.

davo10

djimi wrote: »

He does lose either way. One way means he saves a couple of hundred quid but has no access to an apartment that has cost him €900. The other way means that he pays a couple of hundred quid more, but has full use of the apartment for 6 weeks.

The "proper" solution is for the landlord to refund the money for the time that the OP does not have use of the apartment, but if that isnt going to happen then its up to the OP to decide how they want to play it.

No access to the apartment , are you trolling?, I think if he wanted to use the apartment he would have stayed there during the period for which he is paying rent. The first line of OP is the giveaway in that one.

If the OP wants to "use" it up until the 19th of March, carry on, pay the money, it's absolutely no skin off LLs nose.

djimi

Im just spelling it out; as it stands they will have paid €900 for something that they do not have use of (whether they want to use it or not is besides the point). You may see this as a better compromise than spending another €300 on an apartment you dont need, but dont pretend that in either situation the OP is not losing out.

The_Morrigan

Ok folks, ye are beginning to go around in circles here, can you get back to dealing with the OP's scenario.

Thanks

UCDVet

Thanks for all the responses everyone. It really did help to see other people's opinions (especially as I'm still fairly inexperienced with renting in Ireland).

It leaves a bad taste in my mouth - but I gave the keys back early. That meant skipping work today to get the property cleaned up. He brought with the new tenant who will be moving in Monday - so he's looking to get three weeks of double rent for my trouble.

In fairness, he had a look at the place and said he'd be refunding the deposit in full and I won't need to pay him for the remaining 12 days of notice.

I think everyone had good points and it really covered the issue well from both sides. Thanks again.

Lemming

UCDVet wrote: »

In fairness, he had a look at the place and said he'd be refunding the deposit in full.

In fairness nothing. To quote your ex-landlord's own words; returning the deposit because there's nothing wrong would be "standard". His carry-on like he's doing YOU a favour would leave a very bad taste in ones mouth indeed.

TheDoc

In fairness I can see both sides of this to be honest.

I've currently provided my notice to my landlord and am actively looking for a new property.

However if I found somewhere tomorrow ( after paying my rent last week) I wouldn't go searching for three weeks of a refund. At the end of the day, the landlord was given X days notice, with the assumption the apartment would be free at Y date.

If I decide to leave early, it leaves the landlord essentially with an empty property, where they've maybe not prepared new tenants to move in, or if they have, at a further date.

I plan to arrange my move into my new property ( if it ever ****ing surfaces) to be within the last week of my current tenancy. So that I have the benefit of using the current place as a base to move items to and from.

Have to say if I jumped ship tomorrow, would feel rather cheeky going back asking for a partial refund of my months rent. I think it's more an onus on the tenant to arrange their departure better.

UCDVet

Lemming wrote: »

In fairness nothing. To quote your ex-landlord's own words; returning the deposit because there's nothing wrong would be "standard". His carry-on like he's doing YOU a favour would leave a very bad taste in ones mouth indeed.

I agree with you 100% - at least in theory. In practice, it seems pretty common for a landlord to try and find anything wrong to deduct from a deposit. Even if it was something that was wrong on the day you moved in. Maybe I've just had bad experiences with landlords, but I can't remember the last time I didn't have to fight to get the deposit back.

In all seriousness - I can see why 'runners' are so popular. I could have just not paid him rent on the 6th...it would have been the 10th or later before he noticed it not being there. He would have kept my deposit and I'd be out 900 euro. Legally, he could have come after me, but from what I understand it would have taken him many hours and it'd be months, if not years, before I'd be forced to pay him anything else.

By paying the rent properly and giving notice, I'm still out the 900 for rent. Now I still have to jump through hoops in the hopes of getting back the deposit (verbally he said he'd give it back, but I need to send on my bank details and wait and see what happens). If he doesn't send back the deposit, or make deductions from it, I'll have to spend lots of my own time bringing the case to the PRTB and, if I'm lucky, after some months time, I'll get the deposit back.

If this tenant doesn't move in and he doesn't have it rented before next month (unlikely in this market, but possible), then, he's going to come after me for the 300 left in my notice period.

I'm not advocating it, but I can see why people do it.

UCDVet

TheDoc wrote: »

In fairness I can see both sides of this to be honest.

I've currently provided my notice to my landlord and am actively looking for a new property.

However if I found somewhere tomorrow ( after paying my rent last week) I wouldn't go searching for three weeks of a refund. At the end of the day, the landlord was given X days notice, with the assumption the apartment would be free at Y date.

If I decide to leave early, it leaves the landlord essentially with an empty property, where they've maybe not prepared new tenants to move in, or if they have, at a further date.

I plan to arrange my move into my new property ( if it ever ****ing surfaces) to be within the last week of my current tenancy. So that I have the benefit of using the current place as a base to move items to and from.

Have to say if I jumped ship tomorrow, would feel rather cheeky going back asking for a partial refund of my months rent. I think it's more an onus on the tenant to arrange their departure better.

I agree - but in the current property market (at least in Dublin) and with the prevailing attitudes of landlords (IE - you must move in now), it's pretty much impossible.

My lease was up something like six months ago. I started looking for a new place to live eight months ago. I've gone to 1-2 showings per month. And I've made full-asking price offers on four places that were rejected (the one I just got now was the fifth!).

Nearly all the properties I can find on Daft.ie - at least the ones in my price range are always 'Available Immediately'. I'd much rather secure a property with a move in date weeks or months into the future so I can plan my time better. But I never see it. It's always available immediately or, at best, later that week.

And whenever I've had a landlord accept my offer, they've always made it clear that I need to take it immediately. The landlord who I'm talking about here, he's no different. When I saw the place, I said 'We'll take it!' and he said, 'Well, there is a lot of interest in this particular apartment....could you move in immediately?' And the lease started the next day. The new apartment - same thing - they needed the deposit and first month's rent the next day (saw it on Thursday, paid them on Friday) or they were going to go to the next tenant. While I was at the showing I heard at least one other tenant say they would like to move in, so I know he had other options.

And, naturally, he's having someone move in on Monday - but I'm assuming it's a family friend or something since it hasn't made it to Daft or any of that yet.

Oh well - it doesn't seem like a perfect system, but it's what it is. It is possible that I'm just not so good at finding places and that other people can manage it without paying rent in two places for a month, but I haven't been able to.

djimi

TheDoc wrote: »

Have to say if I jumped ship tomorrow, would feel rather cheeky going back asking for a partial refund of my months rent. I think it's more an onus on the tenant to arrange their departure better.

Thing is thing is though the OP wasnt jumping ship; they had given their notice and were prepared to see it out an pay rent accordingly. It was the landlord who requested the keys back.

homerno

djimi wrote: »

Thing is thing is though the OP wasnt jumping ship; they had given their notice and were prepared to see it out an pay rent accordingly. It was the landlord who requested the keys back.

why are you so jealous when it comes to landlords. im a landlord and i can tell you its not all plain sailing , if a tenant respects me i respect them , the op made the sensible decision , well done. its kinda like you rent out a power tool for a day say 30 euro , if you finish with it at 4 o clock would you wait outside his door untill 5 55pm so he cant give it to someone else?? i would be delighted if he was able make himself an extra few quid. dont be so jealous

djimi

Big difference between a €30 power tool and a significant portion of €900 worth of rent.

And it's got nothing to do with jealousy ffs.

davo10

djimi wrote: »

Big difference between a €30 power tool and a significant portion of €900 worth of rent.

And it's got nothing to do with jealousy ffs.

You missed the point again, OP saved €350 by handing keys back, he was required to pay €900 as notice, it's within the remit of the tenant to stay or move out during notice, the LL didn't make him.

djimi

Im not doing this again. I was simply pointing out that it was the landlord who asked to end the tenancy, not the tenant.

homerno

djimi wrote: »

Im not doing this again. I was simply pointing out that it was the landlord who asked to end the tenancy, not the tenant.

sorry djimi, i was not trying to annoy you, i thought you were just a tiny weeney bit jealous from reading some of your other posts, my mistake, the important thing is the op now has a few extra euro for flowers on friday , and the landlord gains a few quid aswell a good result for everyone, well done;)

TheDoc

djimi wrote: »

Thing is thing is though the OP wasnt jumping ship; they had given their notice and were prepared to see it out an pay rent accordingly. It was the landlord who requested the keys back.

Whoops. Sorry I got somewhat mixed up by your posts that were focusing on receiving remuneration.

Erm, that's a bit odd. So in my example, I've paid up my last month, and I'll be handing the keys back on my last day.

I totally get where your coming from now. If the landlord asked for me to leave early, I would maybe appreciate an offer of some remuneration. Yeah I get you know and would agree with what you have been saying.

UCDVet

davo10 wrote: »

You missed the point again, OP saved €350 by handing keys back, he was required to pay €900 as notice, it's within the remit of the tenant to stay or move out during notice, the LL didn't make him.

I think the part that made me feel like it wasn't quite right is that I haven't saved 350 *yet*. He was very specific in saying that *IF* he rented it out before then, he'd let me not pay the last 12 days. But if he hasn't rented it out, I believe he is expecting me to pay him 350.

I can see it's up on Daft.ie already and I suspect it'll be rented before Monday. I can't imagine it being an issue, but it seems a bit one-sided.

Of course, there are two sides to every story. I know he is using a letting agency and they aren't free. I will also say that even after my lease was up he never raised the rent (even though he probably should have, IMHO). The price on daft.ie is 15% higher that what I was paying, but I believe it to be on par with the market.

dissed doc

UCDVet wrote: »

Moved into a 1 bed apartment in Dublin @ 900 per month with 1 year lease. Lease ended and I stayed another ~8 months. Greater than 1 year, less than 2, and I want to move.

I notified my landlord on Feb.7th that I would be moving out. Law says I need to provide 42 days of notice. My rent was due on the 6th, which I paid in full. IE - I've paid for the apartment until March 7th already, plus I should still have it for another 12 days after (but I need to pay him for it)....is my understanding.

Since I've already moved out, the landlord has asked that I return the keys now (nearly 3 weeks early). I asked him if he'd be refunding 3/4ths of the rent, and he said that it would not be standard practice to refund rent and that tenants should pick up the cost.

To his benefit he says that if I return the keys to him now, and pay rent in a place I no longer have access to, *if* he rents it out before March 7th he won't ask me to pay for the remaining 12 days.

I'm fairly inexperienced with renting in Ireland. Is this really 'standard practice' as it seems a bit off to me. It seems if I'm paying for the apartment, he shouldn't have my keys and if he has my keys, I shouldn't be paying for the apartment.

There is nothing in the lease about such things, or any requirement to show the apartment during the end of the renting period.

Sounds like he is trying to BS you.

If you have an agreed move out date, proper notice given, than you have then tenancy until that point.

If he wants to have the keys back and effectively end the tenancy earlier with your agreement, then he should refund the money from the day he gets the keys back.