How much deposit should I ask for?

redcard

Hi all, having just being stung by my tenants to use there deposit as there final mths rent! I'm thinking now when advertising I should be asking more than 1 mth rent as a deposit? What's the norm these days?

djimi

Where abouts is the property? In most parts of Dublin you can ask for whatever you want (the majority of tenants will tell you where to go with yourself but youll find someone). In most other parts of the country I wouldnt say you have much chance of getting more than a month.

Deposits are not protected in this country; its bad enough risking not getting your months worth back, most people will not be prepared to risk more than that.

redcard

The property is in Dublin. I just rent 1 house I'm not into ripping people off by holding there deposits for ware and tare or minor things, I rented my self for years so I know both sides. I just need to protect myself by asking more than 1 mth rent as deposit so I don't get stung again! I am going to check my property this week and am dreading it as I don't know what's going to meet me and there's noting I can do about it!!

Kristopherus

Have you got the home addresses of the gang that cheated you?

murphaph

Ask for 2 months now in Dublin.

Santa Cruz

redcard wrote: »

The property is in Dublin. I just rent 1 house I'm not into ripping people off by holding there deposits for ware and tare or minor things, I rented my self for years so I know both sides. I just need to protect myself by asking more than 1 mth rent as deposit so I don't get stung again! I am going to check my property this week and am dreading it as I don't know what's going to meet me and there's noting I can do about it!!

I am afraid you walked in to that one. The normal is a one month deposit to be refunded on satisfactory vacation by the tenant. Renting is a business and should operate as such. Hopefully you wont have too much disruption to the property

redcard

They have moved back to there own country. They were good tenants though so I'm hoping for the best!

_Kaiser_

You haven't actually lost anything though right - ie: you still have the deposit?

While I agree that they should have paid you the last month and left "properly" unfortunately (as you know yourself from renting) the experience often is that getting a deposit back - even if you are a perfect tenant - is a minefield in this country.

Chalk it up to experience but I wouldn't be counting on anyone giving you more than the current 1 month as a deposit given the hassle it may involve later.

AlanG

Given the amount of time you have to wait before issuing proceedings fro non payment of rent it is perfectly reasonable to ask for 2 months rent as deposit, especially for a furnished property. You should have no problem getting it.

_Kaiser_

AlanG wrote: »

Given the amount of time you have to wait before issuing proceedings fro non payment of rent it is perfectly reasonable to ask for 2 months rent as deposit, especially for a furnished property. You should have no problem getting it.

Given the amount of time you may have to wait to get your deposit back - or fight with the landlord over how much is returned - it is perfectly reasonable not to give any more than 1 months rent as deposit



See? Works both ways

djimi

And therein lies the problem with the deposit system, and more widely speaking the rental system overall, in this country. Landlord doesnt trust the tenant and wants larger deposit, tenant doesnt trust the landlord and wont hand over any more than they absolutely have to, both sides know that they can find themselves screwed over with little meaningful recourse other than to wait on an inefficient that could take a year to rule (and even then has no guarantees that they will see their money).

_Kaiser_

djimi wrote: »

And therein lies the problem with the deposit system, and more widely speaking the rental system overall, in this country. Landlord doesnt trust the tenant and wants larger deposit, tenant doesnt trust the landlord and wont hand over any more than they absolutely have to, both sides know that they can find themselves screwed over with little meaningful recourse other than to wait on an inefficient that could take a year to rule (and even then has no guarantees that they will see their money).

Exactly, but until renting in this country starts being treated as a professional transaction/service by ALL sides (government and "regulator" included!) rather than a stepping stone to "getting on the property ladder", or the option for "poor people" then it'll never change.

drumswan

Why not ask for the first and last months rent + 1 months deposit?

_Kaiser_

drumswan wrote: »

Why not ask for the first and last months rent + 1 months deposit?

So 3 months worth? I know what I'd be saying to that.

murphaph

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

So 3 months worth? I know what I'd be saying to that.

Depends how stuck you were.

_Kaiser_

murphaph wrote: »

Depends how stuck you were.

Nope.. Simply put I wouldn't have 4/5k (Dublin prices) to risk handing over to Average Joe Landlord, and on principle I wouldn't give it even if I had lest I be encouraging that sort of muppetry/greed given our rental system.

I'd never be that stuck.. even if it meant moving a little further out - but then you're talking to a guy who commuted from Cavan to Dublin for a year without a bother.

Daith

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Nope.. Simply put I wouldn't have 4/5k (Dublin prices) to risk handing over to Average Joe Landlord, and on principle I wouldn't give it even if I had lest I be encouraging that sort of muppetry/greed given our rental system.

Indeed. Rising rents, lack of supply and now asking for more than a months deposit? I'd only consider it if it was going into an escrow system and not directly to the landlord.

djimi

Id be a lot more comfortable paying first and last months rent up front with only a months deposit than I would be paying first months rent up front and two months worth of a deposit. My big concern about the deposit is the serious risk that you wont get it back (at least without a drawn out battle), so the smaller the deposit the better.

redcard

Well I've just been up to the house to check everything out, one of the family has stayed behind to Move there stuff. Good news is they kept the house in good condition, just the usual cleaning and minor repairs to be done so my stress levels have come down! In saying that they have accumulated about 2 large skip loads of crap!! They have a man with a van coming for it today. They could have easily left that there and I'd be out of pocket to the tune of €500 or more. I am thinking along the lines of requesting as suggested 1st and last mths rent plus 1 mth deposit up frount. I have to protect myself !!

drumswan

djimi wrote: »

Id be a lot more comfortable paying first and last months rent up front with only a months deposit than I would be paying first months rent up front and two months worth of a deposit. My big concern about the deposit is the serious risk that you wont get it back (at least without a drawn out battle), so the smaller the deposit the better.

Agreed

_Kaiser_

redcard wrote: »

Well I've just been up to the house to check everything out, one of the family has stayed behind to Move there stuff. Good news is they kept the house in good condition, just the usual cleaning and minor repairs to be done so my stress levels have come down! In saying that they have accumulated about 2 large skip loads of crap!! They have a man with a van coming for it today. They could have easily left that there and I'd be out of pocket to the tune of €500 or more. I am thinking along the lines of requesting as suggested 1st and last mths rent plus 1 mth deposit up frount. I have to protect myself !!

And what protection will your tenants have from you? OK you seem like a decent sort from your posts here but a new tenant isn't going to know that - they'll just see a landlord looking for more than the norm with no guarantees.

Personally if I was asked for 3 months worth of rent before I even moved in I'd just move on to the next place. Things aren't THAT bad yet!

redcard

Kaiser, I hear what your saying it's like no one can be trusted these days. Suppose all I can say is I'm one of the honest landlords just trying to pay the morgage and not get ripped off in the process. I just hope I cross paths with the honest tennant;-)

Grolschevik

The whole point of the double or triple deposit idea is to give landlords more of a buffer against overholding non-paying tenants, right?

It seems to me that those sorts of tenants who would not pay rent or overhold will still do so. But they'll just start doing so earlier. As in "I paid two months worth of deposit, so I just won't pay my last two months rent".

It's a false solution. Those who would do it will still do it. And the perennial suspicion of landlords and deposit retention might even make it more likely.

Whereas those that won't do it will be financially inconvenienced or be turned off that property.

The_Conductor

Grolschevik wrote: »

The whole point of the double or triple deposit idea is to give landlords more of a buffer against overholding non-paying tenants, right?

It seems to me that those sorts of tenants who would not pay rent or overhold will still do so. But they'll just start doing so earlier. As in "I paid two months worth of deposit, so I just won't pay my last two months rent".

It's a false solution. Those who would do it will still do it. And the perennial suspicion of landlords and deposit retention might even make it more likely.

Whereas those that won't do it will be financially inconvenienced or be turned off that property.

Well- it would give the landlord time to actually issue proceedings against them. The PRTB proceedings are online- landlords do check prospective tenants out- as do tenants landlords. Its far from a satisfactory system- but if more unhappy tenants and landlords were to issue proceedings against their landlord or tenant- a history would build up- and once it gathers momentum, it would become more widely known, and before long- a common tool used by both parties.

Personally I think the first and final month's rent, along with 1 month's deposit, is a fair and reasonable solution- and one that most people will grudgingly accept as the most equitable.

TheDoc

djimi wrote: »

Id be a lot more comfortable paying first and last months rent up front with only a months deposit than I would be paying first months rent up front and two months worth of a deposit. My big concern about the deposit is the serious risk that you wont get it back (at least without a drawn out battle), so the smaller the deposit the better.

Agreed with this. Considering I doubt a tenants deposit is put into a separate account and left idle for the duration of lease, I'd imagine there can be trouble when it comes to getting deposits back off sums over 1 month.

It's a bit of a minefield, I'd never heard of two months deposit until the last few weeks. Last two properties I;ve been in, one month deposit and one month rent up front.

The notion of two months deposit plus one months rent is a spanner in the works.

All of a sudden its an extra grand I need to cough up, in a market that is currently chaotic and moving fast.

Personally haven't encountered anything in the last few weeks of my search, asking for two months. One landlord mentioned it and I said I wouldn't be offering more then one, and it was " a sure its grand".
I think alot of said written down and the likes, but I'd say landlords, like tenants, can get a vibe of people and might be able to relax a little bit.

This sort of stuff should be streamlined. There really needs to be a defined set of procedures for entering into an agreement. Preferably which governs a county, or even nationwide.

This craic of landlords essentially setting the rules as they see fit is pretty outragous to be fair. Just makes no sense to me. I'm essentially hearing something new every person I meet, and I'm on a whirlwind search for a house. Leaves me in a perilous position of constantly not having something they want, and the propoerty then going as there appears to be ZERO patiance among landlords and estate agents. Like their properties won't sell tomorrow or something.
Wild west out there at the moment. Really feeling the stress and pressure.

Two weeks now to find a house. Organised viewings for three properties, all next week. Literally **** all available and it seems its being made as difficult as possible for me.

jester77

Here in Germany, it's 3 months warm rent as deposit plus 1 months rent up front. The deposit is placed into an account where neither the landlord or the tenant can access without the permission of the other. Works good here and the tenant knows the landlord can't screw them over when it comes to getting the deposit back.

Daith

The_Conductor wrote: »

Personally I think the first and final month's rent, along with 1 month's deposit, is a fair and reasonable solution- and one that most people will grudgingly accept as the most equitable.

Surely this is still all in the landlords favour? He gets two months rent up front and the deposit is in his back account.

While it protects the landlord, it won't protect a tenant if the landlord doesn't give back the deposit?

I'd agree with the above only if the deposit wasn't in the landlords bank account though.

djimi

jester77 wrote: »

Here in Germany, it's 3 months warm rent as deposit plus 1 months rent up front. The deposit is placed into an account where neither the landlord or the tenant can access without the permission of the other. Works good here and the tenant knows the landlord can't screw them over when it comes to getting the deposit back.

I think most people in Ireland would be perfectly happy with such an arrangement. The problem we face is that once we hand over the deposit it disappears into a black hole, and we are at the mercy of the landlord having the funds in their personal account when we want to get our deposit back. Its bad enough risking one months deposit in such circumstances, but its unacceptable to expect people to risk more than that without some assurance that the money will be there when the tenancy ends.

djimi

Daith wrote: »

Surely this is still all in the landlords favour? He gets two months rent up front and the deposit is in his back account.

While it protects the landlord, it won't protect a tenant if the landlord doesn't give back the deposit?

I'd agree with the above only if the deposit wasn't in the landlords bank account though.

It might stand in the landlords favour, but its better than nothing. I dont mind handing over a total of three months rent if I knew that two of them were going towards the actual rent. The landlord still has the security of two months worth of rent (until the final month anyway), and the tenant knows that they are only risking one months worth of a deposit. Its not quite win-win, but its the best we can hope for until we get a proper deposit protection system.

The_Conductor

djimi wrote: »

I think most people in Ireland would be perfectly happy with such an arrangement. The problem we face is that once we hand over the deposit it disappears into a black hole, and we are at the mercy of the landlord having the funds in their personal account when we want to get our deposit back. Its bad enough risking one months deposit in such circumstances, but its unacceptable to expect people to risk more than that without some assurance that the money will be there when the tenancy ends.

I'd beg to differ.
While the escrow system sounds fine- can you really expect an Irish person to be satisfied to pay 3 months deposit- and a month's rent in advance?
Its never going to happen. Safety of the deposit wholly aside- what Irish tenant is going to hand over 4 months at the outset of the tenancy?

djimi

People may grumble about it, but its more likely to become more normal to have 2-3 month deposits when tenants know that there is no risk of the landlord basically stealing their money. The biggest issue now is not so much the amount but the fact that there is no guarantees that the money will ever be seen again.

Im inclined to agree though that asking for 3 months rent does not take into account the demographic of the Irish rental market compared to other countries, and expecting first time and young renters to be able to afford not just one 3 month deposit but possibly two (if we assume that the deposit is not going to be returned immediately) is probably not realistic.