How much deposit should I ask for?

hfallada

We don't need a deposit perfection scheme like the government is suggesting. The PRTB operates a slow enough organisation with a minimal work load. If the actually had to engage with people I wouldn't be surprised if it took up to a year for a deposit to be returned from them

djimi

The PRTB are absolutely the wrong people to administer such a system...

TheDoc

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'd beg to differ.
While the escrow system sounds fine- can you really expect an Irish person to be satisfied to pay 3 months deposit- and a month's rent in advance?
Its never going to happen. Safety of the deposit wholly aside- what Irish tenant is going to hand over 4 months at the outset of the tenancy?

Somewhat agree with this also.

If that was in place lets say now, I'd be expected to hand over €4800 at the outset. I don't know about you lads, but I don't have 5 grand knocking about my savings accounts, and if I did, I'd probably keep going and just get a mortgage and not bother with renting in the first place

runawaybishop

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'd beg to differ.
While the escrow system sounds fine- can you really expect an Irish person to be satisfied to pay 3 months deposit- and a month's rent in advance?
Its never going to happen. Safety of the deposit wholly aside- what Irish tenant is going to hand over 4 months at the outset of the tenancy?

It will depend on the property and the demand really. If enough are prepared to pay it then it will become the norm fairly fast in some areas.

_Kaiser_

TheDoc wrote: »

Somewhat agree with this also.

If that was in place lets say now, I'd be expected to hand over €4800 at the outset. I don't know about you lads, but I don't have 5 grand knocking about my savings accounts, and if I did, I'd probably keep going and just get a mortgage and not bother with renting in the first place

That's nail on head right there - most people renting won't have that kind of money lying around, and given that renting is seen as a "stepping stone" to buying anyway people won't be willing to throw that kind of cash into the "dead money" that is renting.

This might work alright in Germany but this isn't Germany and the Irish mindset is completely different. We can't even run the country in anything approaching a professional manner (everything from the top down is done on the "who you know" and "ah shure it'll be grand" approach), never mind a sector that is seen as a stopgap or poor man's option by most Irish people.

Until that mindset changes you haven't a hope of people accepting something like this - not to mention it still does nothing to address the problems experienced by one/both sides during a tenancy anyway.

runawaybishop

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

That's nail on head right there - most people renting won't have that kind of money lying around.

You should though.

djimi

runawaybishop wrote: »

You should though.

Perhaps, but I think its often overlooked in this discussion that a sizable portion of the Irish rental market is made up of younger and often first time renters, and to €4k+ is a lot of money to have as an initial fee. Its all well and good saying that renters should it, but not quite as black and white as that.

Ireland is not Germany. People do not typically rent beyond the early part of their adult life (or at least traditionally did not), and this is something that needs to be taken into consideration by both sides (including landlords when deciding it renting is a business that they want to get involved in).

Michael D Not Higgins

TheDoc wrote: »

Somewhat agree with this also.

If that was in place lets say now, I'd be expected to hand over €4800 at the outset. I don't know about you lads, but I don't have 5 grand knocking about my savings accounts, and if I did, I'd probably keep going and just get a mortgage and not bother with renting in the first place

What kind of mortgage are you getting with a 5 grand deposit?

jester77

djimi wrote: »

Perhaps, but I think its often overlooked in this discussion that a sizable portion of the Irish rental market is made up of younger and often first time renters, and to €4k+ is a lot of money to have as an initial fee. Its all well and good saying that renters should it, but not quite as black and white as that.

Ireland is not Germany. People do not typically rent beyond the early part of their adult life (or at least traditionally did not), and this is something that needs to be taken into consideration by both sides (including landlords when deciding it renting is a business that they want to get involved in).

The same is asked of young Germans, actually it's a bit more. Nearly all apartments are rented through an agent and they get 2.5 times cold rent. So young Germans have to come up with 6 months rent before moving into an empty apartment that they need to furnish.

I don't know how they finance it but it I've never heard too much complaints apart from having to pay the agent so much for 5 mins of work.

TheBandicoot

runawaybishop wrote: »

You should though.

For some people that could be 4 or 5 months worth of saving up, and where do you live in the meantime?

I'm 23 and while I could finance a 5 grand outlay on renting somewhere, that is a sizable double digit percentage of all the money I have in the world and would be a major decision to be made on my part.

Thomas D

NO way would I trust a scumlord with more than a months deposit.

_Kaiser_

runawaybishop wrote: »

You should though.

That might be fine if you're living at home and Mammy and Daddy are paying most or all of the bills - but when you're a bit older and have your own expenses, loans, kids etc to cover as well it's a little different .. especially given the often extremely unprofessional/made-up-as-we-go rental situations in this country.

Just look at some of the problems posted here every week - none of which will be addressed by handing over maybe 5k to a Joe Soap accidental/reluctant/greedy landord.

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

What kind of mortgage are you getting with a 5 grand deposit?

That's not what he said - he said he might as well keep going anyway towards a deposit if that's the kind of sums that were expected

Michael D Not Higgins

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

That's not what he said - he said he might as well keep going anyway towards a deposit if that's the kind of sums that were expected

Living where in the meantime?

Daith

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Living where in the meantime?

Family?

_Kaiser_

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Living where in the meantime?

OK let's for a minute imagine this nonsensical idea actually was implemented here in Ireland - I don't care what happens in Germany or the UK or anywhere else because, as I noted earlier, this isn't any of those places!

- Some would pay it (the more money than sense crowd) and still run into the same issues with tenancies we see on this board daily because we don't HAVE a professional rental market in this country. This in turn would drive prices up generally in the area/city

- Many more would refuse (or equally just couldn't afford it) and move further out thus increasing pressure and prices elsewhere, as well as increasing traffic and commuting times

- Others would move home assuming that was an option and Mammy and Daddy were prepared to keep/subsidise them

Now I'm sure we can all see for ourselves the knock-on effects this would have on the larger economy, people's lives and work.. if not just go back a few years in our history!

I have to say though, the fantasy world that some people here live in is bemusing. The idea that people who are renting and paying maybe €1300+ a month (which ISN'T cheap!) PLUS bills, commuting/car costs, kids etc can somehow pull another 4 grand out of their back pocket with no security or guarantee offered in return is just farcical!

But it is indicative of the larger problem.. that being that renting in Ireland is seen as a joke - something to be exploited, treated as a stop-gap to ownership, or a lesser option for the poor who can't afford to buy.

The biggest selling point for buying a property in Ireland ISN'T security or because it's "the done thing" or it shows you've "arrived" - it's to save yourself from dealing with amateur greedy nonsense like some of the stuff I see posted on this forum every week!

runawaybishop

TheBandicoot wrote: »

For some people that could be 4 or 5 months worth of saving up, and where do you live in the meantime?

I'm 23 and while I could finance a 5 grand outlay on renting somewhere, that is a sizable double digit percentage of all the money I have in the world and would be a major decision to be made on my part.

Wherever you were living before i would imagine. Yes, 5k is a decent bit of cash. It makes sense to have a couple months rent in the bank in case anything happens though. I a well aware many people cannot afford this, but that doesn't mean that it isn't best practise.

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

That might be fine if you're living at home and Mammy and Daddy are paying most or all of the bills - but when you're a bit older and have your own expenses, loans, kids etc to cover as well it's a little different .. especially given the often extremely unprofessional/made-up-as-we-go rental situations in this country.

Just look at some of the problems posted here every week - none of which will be addressed by handing over maybe 5k to a Joe Soap accidental/reluctant/greedy landord.

When you have more responsibilities its even more incumbent on you to have a fall back. Having first and last months rent paid, or 2 months in the bank in case of issues is just sensible.

Deposits will be held by a 3rd arty soon. Asking for 3 months will probably become the norm pretty quick.

_Kaiser_

runawaybishop wrote: »

Wherever you were living before i would imagine. Yes, 5k is a decent bit of cash. It makes sense to have a couple months rent in the bank in case anything happens though. I a well aware many people cannot afford this, but that doesn't mean that it isn't best practise.


When you have more responsibilities its even more incumbent on you to have a fall back. Having first and last months rent paid, or 2 months in the bank in case of issues is just sensible.

Deposits will be held by a 3rd arty soon. Asking for 3 months will probably become the norm pretty quick.

What's "sensible" as you call it vs what's practical/reality for many renters is two different things. It's not just house owners and landlords who are finding the residential accommodation market tough you know!

As for the deposit being held by a third party, while that's welcome it's only part of the problem - look through some of the threads here of tenants, landlord and estate agents all pulling fast ones or just being ignorant to their responsibilities. Where the deposit sits won't change that plus if it's being administered by the PRTB it'll no doubt take forever based on their normal reaction time.

I can't see this becoming the norm for the reasons I outlined above, and moving home to mammy and daddy (historically the done thing in this country) isn't always an option either.

Plus there still hasn't been any answer to my question earlier in the thread - what assurances does a tenant get for handing over this large sum of money to a Joe Soap landlord?? None! It won't force them to deal with issues any quicker, it won't stop them (or their agents) chancing their arms with rent increases, denying liability for flood damage, forcing new leases on people etc (and that's just from the first few pages of this forum!)

Luckily though in the real world outside this forum, this sort of talk is unlikely to actually happen and even if it did, it'll likely be confined to the so-called desirable South County Dublin region (and as someone living there now I really can't see the appeal of the place save for it being close to my office, but I'd happily commute (again) if it came to it too)

runawaybishop

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

What's "sensible" as you call it vs what's practical/reality for many renters is two different things. It's not just house owners and landlords who are finding the residential accommodation market tough you know!

As for the deposit being held by a third party, while that's welcome it's only part of the problem - look through some of the threads here of tenants, landlord and estate agents all pulling fast ones or just being ignorant to their responsibilities. Where the deposit sits won't change that plus if it's being administered by the PRTB it'll no doubt take forever based on their normal reaction time.

I can't see this becoming the norm for the reasons I outlined above, and moving home to mammy and daddy (historically the done thing in this country) isn't always an option either.

Plus there still hasn't been any answer to my question earlier in the thread - what assurances does a tenant get for handing over this large sum of money to a Joe Soap landlord?? None! It won't force them to deal with issues any quicker, it won't stop them (or their agents) chancing their arms with rent increases, denying liability for flood damage, forcing new leases on people etc (and that's just from the first few pages of this forum!)

Luckily though in the real world outside this forum, this sort of talk is unlikely to actually happen and even if it did, it'll likely be confined to the so-called desirable South County Dublin region (and as someone living there now I really can't see the appeal of the place save for it being close to my office, but I'd happily commute (again) if it came to it too)

Yes, i am aware its not practical for many, i did state that.

Deposits will soon be held in escrow, i am not sure why are you are referring to Joe Soap landlord? Thats not the scenario we are referring to.

This forum isnt indicative of the rental market. By its very nature we are far more likely to hear the bad stories.

Victor

Thomas D wrote: »

NO way would I trust a scumlord with more than a months deposit.

Please tone down your language.

Moderator

murphaph

Yep, I'd expect the introduction of the escrow system to see landlords increase their standard deposit requirement to 2 months in short order.