Red and Yellow cards

galwaylad14

Well I won't lie, I did just read the article on Joe.ie and all they had was the Cody quotes and from the way it was presented it seemed as though he didn't want people sent off no matter what. Maybe that's not what he said exactly? But I don't see what getting rid of showing the cards would do? Surely it would just create confusion for supporters alike? Because no matter what else you say, the cards give great clarity to supporters and we know the score exactly in terms of who got a card etc.

Well surely the fact that Cody is always so keen to push forward initiatives about letting the game flow and not taking the "manliness" out of it etc should tell you all you need to know about how physical his team is? He's no fool, like all managers he wants to change things to suit his own team more. if his team was built around light, nippy forwards that thrived off space and drawing fouls do you think he'd be coming out with those statements? Of course he wouldn't. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with what he's doing, all managers do it and the fact he's the most high profile manager in the GAA means he gets more media exposure than others might.

Well without question Galway are a very physical team too, we have loads of big strong men who are well able to dish out the physical stuff. And it's no secret that there was a couple of unsavoury incidents from Galway men against Kilkenny players in the 2012 final and I'm not clainimg that my own county are whiter than white at all

randd1

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Well I won't lie, I did just read the article on Joe.ie and all they had was the Cody quotes and from the way it was presented it seemed as though he didn't want people sent off no matter what. Maybe that's not what he said exactly? But I don't see what getting rid of showing the cards would do? Surely it would just create confusion for supporters alike? Because no matter what else you say, the cards give great clarity to supporters and we know the score exactly in terms of who got a card etc.

Well surely the fact that Cody is always so keen to push forward initiatives about letting the game flow and not taking the "manliness" out of it etc should tell you all you need to know about how physical his team is? He's no fool, like all managers he wants to change things to suit his own team more. if his team was built around light, nippy forwards that thrived off space and drawing fouls do you think he'd be coming out with those statements? Of course he wouldn't. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with what he's doing, all managers do it and the fact he's the most high profile manager in the GAA means he gets more media exposure than others might.

Well without question Galway are a very physical team too, we have loads of big strong men who are well able to dish out the physical stuff. And it's no secret that there was a couple of unsavoury incidents from Galway men against Kilkenny players in the 2012 final and I'm not clainimg that my own county are whiter than white at all

Fair enough, but people should really read or listen to the interviews before making assertions. Some of the bile, especially on the Cork forums and posters, aimed at Cody and Keher supposed agenda is completely out of order seeing as they are been completely taken out of context with what they actually said and what some are thinking they said.

tomasdubh

Lads, Cody has never suggested that players shouldn't be penalised for fouls. What he seems to be saying is that the present yellow card system is too rigid. A yellow has to be given for a relatively innocuous foul and exactly the same punishment for the type of foul committed by Joe Canning last weekend. Is that fair?

Hidalgo

randd1 wrote: »

Neither Cody and Keher have said a player should not be sent off, they're just arguing that perhaps the cards are too punitive considering a pot of them are given for innocuous enough challenges which then end up in red cards. In fact Keher did say in his idea that the straight red offenses should stay the same.

And Kilkenny are a physical side, but no more than any other side out there, so I don't see where this would give them an advantage. Tipp, Galway, Dublin, Cork, Clare, Limerick, Waterford, Offaly and Wexford all have big men in their sides and are well able to use them, I see no physical advantage that Kilkenny have over those.

Tipp, KK Dublin and to a slightly lesser extent Galway are more physical than Cork or Clare.
That's not to say that they ovely rely on their physical nature, you don't win as many All Irls as KK have recently using just physicality, they've matched it with unbelievable skill levels.
Every team plays to its strengths, whether that's physical advantage that allows you to dominate aerially or an advantage

Even if cards were got rid of, players would still be harshly sent off, as they would still be booked, perhaps without warrant. The booking would remain (or that's my understanding) but a yellow would not be flashed.

Hidalgo

tomasdubh wrote: »

Lads, Cody has never suggested that players shouldn't be penalised for fouls. What he seems to be saying is that the present yellow card system is too rigid. A yellow has to be given for a relatively innocuous foul and exactly the same punishment for the type of foul committed by Joe Canning last weekend. Is that fair?

If the rules are too rigid, then the rules should be changed. I'm hoping that's what Liam O' Neill has in mind when he spoke of a discussion on the future of hurling.
Some are calling for giving the ref more scope to use common sense. That's all well and good, but each ref might interpret the rules differently and put even more pressure/spotlight on refs decisions

Brian Shanahan

zetecescort wrote: »

Eddie Keher and now Brian Cody have both called for the removal of cards from hurling. I always thought they were only a visual aid for players and fans to avoid Charlie Redmond type situations.

In all honesty, if they go forward with this, they may as well just scrap the rules. Because what's the point of trying to enforce rules when you've no way of proplerly punishing transgressors.

Brian Shanahan

deadybai wrote: »

I think what he meant was that instead of cards the referee would have full authority. For instance the ref could ask a player to leave the field of play if he is constantly fouling or tries to break somebody legs. There is nothing worse then a player getting sent off for two silly fouls. A red card in hurling changes the game for the worse. I'd no that id rather beat a full strength opponent then one with a man down.

If a player is constantly fouling there is nothing under the current system to stop a referee from sending him off.

Grats

Did any of the critics on here listen to Liam O'Neill on the radio yesterday? When the presenter said that Cody was endorsing what Keher had proposed O'Neill said that's not what I heard him say. Listen to the interview. The print media are misrepresenting what Cody said and not reporting what O'Neill's view. Hardly surprising!

Kilkenny players have suffered serious injuries under current rules and systems. It's hard to see how getting rid of cards would benefit them in any way. It's the black cards that Cody is interested in. Does everybody other than Kilkenny people support the introduction of them?

How quickly we forget the display by Kilkenny in 2008 against Davy's Waterford! I have yet to see a team show such brilliant skills both in scoring and defending. Clare are heading that way. They will need to address their defending skills if they are to survive. If that means being physical like Kilkenny, so be it. I would imagine that is what Davy will strive for. If it means being dirty like Shane O'Neill, well then no thanks. We've suffered enough horrific injuries to our players to understand the difference between dirt and physicality.

Thankfully when this current Kilkenny team ride off into the sunset they can be proud in that none ever caused an opponent to leave the field of play due to dirty play.

Grats

galwaylad14 wrote: »

I heard this quote too and to be honest I couldn't believe it when I heard it, I think it must just be a case of the quote being taken out of context. How could he possibly justify a game without reds and yellow cards? He says there is no dirt in the game but there clearly is dirty belts dished out all the time. But let's assume for a second that there is no dirt in the game right now, does he not think the yellow and red cards that are there to punish dirty play don't act as a deterrent to stop this dirty play? Of course they do. If they were abolished we'd see a lot more nasty belts and very dangerous pulling etc.

So in his proposed idea, no matter what a player did it could be punishable by no more than a free? So say for example if my own county were playing, our team would be largely regarded, rightly or wrongly, as a "one-man team", so an opposition full back could say just break Joe Canning's arm with a wild, off the ball pull in the first minute and be punished with no more than a free against him? How is that fair?
And yes I'm aware of the irony of using that example after the pull that Joe got away with at the weekend! It's just it seemed the most clear example to use of when a team would benefit so much from not having a yellow or red card system.

To be honest it's hard to view this proposal (if the quote means what we think it means) as anything other than Cody trying to suit his own agenda as his Kilkenny team were always known to be a very "physical" side.

You HEARD this quote? So you LISTENED to the interview? Was it not black cards they were discussing? Did Cody not say Keher's proposal would be worth considering? Just as Liam O'Neill said on the radio yesterday. What's wrong with suggesting ideas? And you and every other poster on here is correct, what would Kilkenny have to gain should they get rid of cards? I certainly wouldn't like to see it happen.

I think many people are missing the point here. We currently have yellow and black cards, and rules and regulations. How then did incidents like Shane O'Neil get away? How did Padarig Maher get away with the slash on Michael Rice? Why did Patrick Horgan have his card rescinded? Why was Liam Rushe not punished?

That is the point - why have cards at all if they're not being used properly? In most followers view it would be great to have a repeat of last years championship this year, and why not. Would we also like a repeat of the refs handling of particular matters, I think not.

Christy Ring Jnr proposed getting rid of cards 5 years ago. Keher revisited the issue recently. Cody referred to it - he would be even a greater man than he appears to be if he gets his way!!! I wouldn't be at all concerned as the fact of the matter is, if Cork couldn't get it passed, nobody will!

premierstone

Grats if you are going to be so defensive at least get your own facts right.

This has absolutely nothing to do with black cards and is specifically related to yellow and red cards, black cards have nothing to do with hurling and I'm quite certain neither Mr Keher or Mr Cody are overly concerned about the future development of Football. You made the correct point yourself that this motion was initially put forward by the Cork CB 5 years ago, unless they were clairvoyant can you tell me how it has anything to do with black cards?

Secondly Cork did not fail to have this motion passed, it was not discussed because the delegate in question altered the motion after it was passed in Cork and prior to congress which is against the procedural rules as essentially he was proposing a moion that hasd not been ratifed by his own board.

Cody and Keher and indeed Ring Jnr have a valid opoint but ffs they have made some hames of making it, the problem is not the cards and to suggest their removal is comical, regressive and tbh farcical. The problem lies in the application of the rules, the ridgidity of these, the incompetence of a number of referees and the extremely negative affect of referees assesors.

So in summary the cards should 100% remain its just a matter of when they should be applied.

Grats

Excuse me, my facts are spot on. Where have you been for the last few months or is it a case of selective reading? The possibility of black cards has been widely discussed - where have you been. Cody was discussing black cards when he was asked about Keher'a proposal - fact. If you don't believe ne then listen to Liam O'Neill.


I agree with you, as would all Kilkenny supporters, that the cards should remain but need to be implemented consistently. At a guess, Brian Cody would be in favour of that too

Would Tipp be in favour of black cards?

premierstone

Grats wrote: »

Would Tipp be in favour of black cards?

I don't claim to speak on behalf of the entire county like some, but personally absolutely not, its about time the rule makers realised, and in fairness I think they slowwly are, that football and hurling are poles apart and all rules should be seperate and unique to each code.

There is no need for black cards in hurling whatsoever and it would be farcical. That said I am not in favour of their use in football either as the practicalities of it at club level are simply unworkable, small clubs will be ruined and teh larger clubs second teams ( junior etc) will be destroyed with the extra amount of players inelligible for the grade as a result of replacing a player who was black carded.

I would also fear that over time it would lead to a situation where it would be nigh on impossible to get a red card and to a lesser extent a yellow card, the referee will simply have the cop out of giving a black card.

Grats

premierstone wrote: »

I don't claim to speak on behalf of the entire county like some, but personally absolutely not, its about time the rule makers realised, and in fairness I think they slowwly are, that football and hurling are poles apart and all rules should be seperate and unique to each code.

There is no need for black cards in hurling whatsoever and it would be farcical. That said I am not in favour of their use in football either as the practicalities of it at club level are simply unworkable, small clubs will be ruined and teh larger clubs second teams ( junior etc) will be destroyed with the extra amount of players inelligible for the grade as a result of replacing a player who was black carded.

I would also fear that over time it would lead to a situation where it would be nigh on impossible to get a red card and to a lesser extent a yellow card, the referee will simply have the cop out of giving a black card.

With regards to black cards therefore you and I agree with Brian Cody. As do many. Cody has gotten the debate going in advance of what will inevitably be proposed in the coming year. Liam O'Neill has welcomed it as will all reasonable hurling folk.