Wrong fuel delivered - kerosene mixed with gas oil

ectoraige

Hi, I'm hoping to get some information to help me with a problem. I'd ordered 500l of gas oil from our usual supplier last week which was delivered while I was in work. Over the weekend I discovered that the fuel was red, and not green as usual. I checked the docket and sure enough, it states that 500l of kerosene was delivered, not gas oil.

I rang them this morning to query it and received the following explanation:

Apparently the driver had started delivering 80-100 litres of kerosene before realising his mistake. He then switched tank and completed the delivery with 400-420 litres of gas oil.

Now the company have told me not to worry that a lot of people mix kerosene with gas oil to "clean it out". Indeed the person I spoke with told me he personally gets a kerosene delivery every third delivery or so. From my limited knowledge, this is bull. Am I right in thinking that the burner has to be optimised for one fuel, and using a different fuel would be inefficient?
Am I also correct that the only good reason to mix kerosene with gas-oil is to prevent waxing in extreme low temperatures?

My burner is a Riello 40 G3R burner, which I believe has a fuel pre-heater so is there really any benefit to me to having mixed fuel at all?

I'm also dubious about exactly what was delivered to me. He claimed that the driver switched over to gas oil after 80-100 litres of kerosene. I asked how come the "Electronic Meter Reading" on the docket could say 500 litres, he told me the meter reads off the line, that it doesn't matter what tank it is connected to. The thing I noticed looking at the docket this evening is it took 1 minute 58 seconds from start to finish to deliver the 500 litres. Is it that quick to change over fuel or does it seem like I am being fed more bull?

I asked if he has any documentation to show how much I actually received, and all he could tell me was the driver said it was around 80/100 litres. Is there a way to test the fuel to tell? The tank had run empty a week before and I'd topped it up with just 20l of gas oil.

I've been contemplating switching to kerosene instead of gas oil so if it had been a case that they delivered all kerosene I would just have them pay the cost of re-tuning the boiler. I'm tempted now though to have them take it all back, especially since they seem to be bulling me with their explanations. I'm particularly annoyed because they didn't tell me, and they didn't even consider the fact that they overcharged me given the gas-oil is more expensive. The other thing I noticed is that beside the sticker on the tank saying "Gas Oil", they put a sticker on the tank saying "Kerosene", along with their company name, which I won't mention.

Am I going over the top?

Billy Bunting

Very late and long.

Get an Oftec Registered Technicain out to service the boiler and they will set it up with a FGA so it will burn safely and efficiantly.

scudo2

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Very late and long.

Get an Oftec Registered Technicain out to service the boiler and they will set it up with a FGA so it will burn safely and efficiantly.

And will have to be retuned at next tank fill. I recommend 100% kerosene in future.

Wearb

ectoraige wrote: »

Hi, I'm hoping to get some information to help me with a problem. I'd ordered 500l of gas oil from our usual supplier last week which was delivered while I was in work. Over the weekend I discovered that the fuel was red, and not green as usual. I checked the docket and sure enough, it states that 500l of kerosene was delivered, not gas oil.

I rang them this morning to query it and received the following explanation:

Apparently the driver had started delivering 80-100 litres of kerosene before realising his mistake. He then switched tank and completed the delivery with 400-420 litres of gas oil.

Now the company have told me not to worry that a lot of people mix kerosene with gas oil to "clean it out". Indeed the person I spoke with told me he personally gets a kerosene delivery every third delivery or so. From my limited knowledge, this is bull. Am I right in thinking that the burner has to be optimised for one fuel, and using a different fuel would be inefficient?
Am I also correct that the only good reason to mix kerosene with gas-oil is to prevent waxing in extreme low temperatures?

My burner is a Riello 40 G3R burner, which I believe has a fuel pre-heater so is there really any benefit to me to having mixed fuel at all?

I'm also dubious about exactly what was delivered to me. He claimed that the driver switched over to gas oil after 80-100 litres of kerosene. I asked how come the "Electronic Meter Reading" on the docket could say 500 litres, he told me the meter reads off the line, that it doesn't matter what tank it is connected to. The thing I noticed looking at the docket this evening is it took 1 minute 58 seconds from start to finish to deliver the 500 litres. Is it that quick to change over fuel or does it seem like I am being fed more bull?

I asked if he has any documentation to show how much I actually received, and all he could tell me was the driver said it was around 80/100 litres. Is there a way to test the fuel to tell? The tank had run empty a week before and I'd topped it up with just 20l of gas oil.

I've been contemplating switching to kerosene instead of gas oil so if it had been a case that they delivered all kerosene I would just have them pay the cost of re-tuning the boiler. I'm tempted now though to have them take it all back, especially since they seem to be bulling me with their explanations. I'm particularly annoyed because they didn't tell me, and they didn't even consider the fact that they overcharged me given the gas-oil is more expensive. The other thing I noticed is that beside the sticker on the tank saying "Gas Oil", they put a sticker on the tank saying "Kerosene", along with their company name, which I won't mention.

Am I going over the top?

If its red then you have more kero than diesel. Contact them again and ask th to either replace it or get a service person out to retune it. Make sure you get a printout or setup results. Trouble with doing it that way is that it will have to be setup again after next fill of unmixed product.

ectoraige

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Very late and long.

Get an Oftec Registered Technicain out to service the boiler and they will set it up with a FGA so it will burn safely and efficiantly.

I assume this would allow them to calibrate my boiler to burn the fuel mix I have at the moment. Once it is purged, I would need them to come out a second time and recalibrate with after the next delivery?

Scartbeg

I don't believe a small % kero, say less than 20% should affect your burner - as mentioned it may be beneficial in severe low temps to reduce waxing.

In any case, with a suitable container and accurate scales you can work out the approx % age of kero vs. gasoil as follows.

1 litre gasoil = 850g
1 litre kero = 800g both approx.

Measure the weight of 1 litre of your mix and say for example it is 830g, then:

(850-830 ) / (850 -800) x 100 = 40% kero.


Hope that makes sense!

Wearb

Yep that's about the choices you have.

ectoraige

Wearb wrote: »

If its red then you have more kero than diesel. Contact them again and ask th to either replace it or get a service person out to retune it. Make sure you get a printout or setup results. Trouble with doing it that way is that it will have to be setup again after next fill of unmixed product.

Yeah, it doesn't look like a gas oil with a reddish tint, it is a deep red. I'm wondering if there is any gas oil in it at all. According to the docket it took 118 seconds to deliver the 500 litres. It seems like quite a quick time for him to start delivering, realise his mistake, change tank, and complete the delivery. I guess if I have the boiler calibrated now, and then a second time the point is moot.

ectoraige

Scartbeg wrote: »

I don't believe a small % kero, say less than 20% should affect your burner - as mentioned it may be beneficial in severe low temps to reduce waxing.

In any case, with a suitable container and accurate scales you can work out the approx % age of kero vs. gasoil as follows.

1 litre gasoil = 850g
1 litre kero = 800g both approx.

Measure the weight of 1 litre of your mix and say for example it is 830g, then:

(850-830 ) / (850 -800) x 100 = 40% kero.


Hope that makes sense!

Thanks a million, I'll do that tomorrow. It should give me a good indication of exactly how much they overcharged me by.

shane0007

They should have a print out for each delivery.
You won't be able to chop over as straight forward as you think as you mentioned your burner has a pre-heater for the gas oil.

Wearb

Scartbeg wrote: »

I don't believe a small % kero, say less than 20% should affect your burner - as mentioned it may be beneficial in severe low temps to reduce waxing.

In any case, with a suitable container and accurate scales you can work out the approx % age of kero vs. gasoil as follows.

1 litre gasoil = 850g
1 litre kero = 800g both approx.

Measure the weight of 1 litre of your mix and say for example it is 830g, then:

(850-830 ) / (850 -800) x 100 = 40% kero.


Hope that makes sense!

That's a good idea, but the weight of a litre varies with temperature. For accuracy you will need a thermometer and a chart for both fuels.

Best bet is to have them replace it.

U2Flyboy

Personally I wouldn't worry and I beleive there's truth in the theory that a little kerosene can help to clean the burner and pump. I have heard of people mixing kerosene with home heating oil to protect it against freezing. I use kerosene and I have been advised by the previous owner of this house to mix a little home heating occasionally to lubricate the burner pump. If you can negotiate a bit of discount all the better but nothing to worry about in that concentration.

U2Flyboy

Personally I wouldn't worry and I beleive there's truth in the theory that a little kerosene can help to clean the burner and pump. I have heard of people mixing kerosene with home heating oil to protect it against freezing. I use kerosene and I have been advised by the previous owner of this house to mix a little home heating occasionally to lubricate the burner pump. If you can negotiate a bit of discount all the better but nothing to worry about in that concentration.

Wearb

U2Flyboy wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't worry and I beleive there's truth in the theory that a little kerosene can help to clean the burner and pump. I have heard of people mixing kerosene with home heating oil to protect it against freezing. I use kerosene and I have been advised by the previous owner of this house to mix a little home heating occasionally to lubricate the burner pump. If you can negotiate a bit of discount all the better but nothing to worry about in that concentration.

Not good advice. I am not going to get into the reasons as it has been discussed here at length.

deandean

Suggest you write to the supplier, put in writing what happened, tell them you are seriously pi$$ed off, copy your solicitor, offer them the opportunity to have an OFTEC guy attend at their cost for FGA tests etc & you are gonna hold them responsible for anything that happens to your burner or your family for the duration of that 500 litres and for 24 months thereafter.

My concern would be that they supplied 490L kero and 10L MGO and are trying to put a spin on it!

scudo2

U2Flyboy wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't worry and I beleive there's truth in the theory that a little kerosene can help to clean the burner and pump. I have heard of people mixing kerosene with home heating oil to protect it against freezing. I use kerosene and I have been advised by the previous owner of this house to mix a little home heating occasionally to lubricate the burner pump. If you can negotiate a bit of discount all the better but nothing to worry about in that concentration.

(1) new type oil pumps haven't needed a " bit of lubercating" for over 25 years.
(2) do you mix the fuel in your car ?
(3) what's the point of a professional service with combustion analyzer to get maximum efficiency and then change the characteristics of the fuel defeating the original point of getting 100% perfect combustion and efficiency from boiler.

agusta

ectoraige wrote: »

Thanks a million, I'll do that tomorrow. It should give me a good indication of exactly how much they overcharged me by.

I would think you received 100 percent kero.Since you are debating with changing over the kerosene it might not be all that bad.As shane pointed out its not a straight forward change with you burner having a pre heater.If your stuck i know an very good experienced oftec registered technician in knocknacross, riverstown .I think the oil company should be compensating you in some way