Is It Wrong to Mime?

Motley Crue

So, after reading Axl Rose's guest column on the Super Bowl "controversy" regarding Red Hot Chilli Peppers performance...

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/earshot/did-red-hot-chili-peppers-677178

...it got me thinking about the idea of a band miming. And not just any band, but a Rock or Metal band. Because (and correct me if you feel I'm wrong) but I assume that if you went to a gig and - unless you knew it prior to the event - the band were miming their performance, you'd probably be disgusted and (if you paid for it) would demand a refund?

I think that whatever we can expect of Pop stars to mime their acts every now and again while jumping around and dancing like idiots with massive sets and choreographed dancers there is a certain expectation that it would be almost sacrilege for any Rock/Metal band to mime.

A couple of years ago I remember people on this very forum talking about Bob Dylan at the Point and how he cancelled the second night on doctor's orders. Well Bob is an older man now, he has to be careful, but what if he had decided to perform and just mimed the entire event - maybe his band were real but his vocals were pre-recorded. It's well known most bands rehearse a set down to the microsecond, including the alleged "spontaneous" messing about in between songs...how would you feel if you knew some part of the performance (especially in a big arena) was being pre-recorded because the singer had a bad chest or the bassist hurt his hand?

Also, consider this performance from Metallica on TOTP - a show infamous for insisting it's guests mime their material. Are they miming or not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DhsHGAOpa4

baldshin

This happened when Muse were told to mime on an Italian tv show, absolutely hilarious! -

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ipg-cIh1uxE

I always figured RHCP had made enough money and had enough respect for themselves not to have to mime to get a gig, couldn't believe they gave in to those demands!

With regards to that Metallica clip, seems like they're miming.....still sounds shockingly bad!

lord lucan

That met performance on totps sounds live to me,hetelds vocals and Lars snare sound as well as his over use of crash cymbals sounds legit.

Personally I hate miming in any genre. If you can sing and play then do it. With modern setups you don't even need lots of equipment and stacks on stage as so much is done wirelessly. Its a combo of laziness and inability to actually sound like your recorded product. I don't care how famous or respected the artist is,if you can't kick it live then don't do it at all.

Angron

I agree with LL. Miming your show just feels lazy, and it defeats the purpose of having a concert at all.

Somnus

I would most definitely be pissed if I found out a band I paid to see were miming. And as Angron says, if you knew they were going to be miming what would be the point in even going to see them?

The little variations and flourishes you often hear when bands perform live is one of the best things about going to live music. I can understand how bands with a very rich or layered/produced sound might fail to live up to it live, but I'd still prefer them to do it for real than mime!

GLaDOS

Would be disgusted if I found out a band I'd seen were miming, may as well sit at home and listen to the album.

Love that Muse clip :pac:

stefan idiot jones

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S0MzeMfcGxA

A different kind of lip sync.
I remember watching this live and laughing.

Also didn't WASP mime in '87 at Donington?
The bass player fell on his arse and the music rumbled on.

Kess73

Axl on about other bands miming?:D

Guess he must have forgotten the fuss in Austrailia three or four years ago when many GNR fans walked out of a gig after Axl was a few hours late and then appeared to be miming.

slavetothegrind

there is no excuse, it is cheating and deception.

There has been rumours about miming and other performance aids in metal for years.

I remember Maiden being accused of having someone else playing the guitar track backstage during the live after death tour, rediculous!

Aerosmith have been accused of using vocal backing tracks, i refuse to believe that on the grounds it would destroy a great gig memory.

At least noone could accuse Hammett of miming or backing tracks, the improvement would be too obvious ;-)

Engine No.9

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Love that Muse clip :pac:

It actually took me a minute to realise Matt Bellamy was sitting behind the kit. Deadly.

Messers :pac:

smackbunnybaby

Did Marilyn Manson mine at the gig with Iron Maiden here?

Gamayun

slavetothegrind wrote: »

there is no excuse, it is cheating and deception.

There has been rumours about miming and other performance aids in metal for years.

I remember Maiden being accused of having someone else playing the guitar track backstage during the live after death tour, rediculous!

Aerosmith have been accused of using vocal backing tracks, i refuse to believe that on the grounds it would destroy a great gig memory.

At least noone could accuse Hammett of miming or backing tracks, the improvement would be too obvious ;-)

Here's Maiden on German TV having a mess about when asked to mime

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUDJHGBNtkI

120_Minutes

I have no issues with RHCP miming at a big event such as the superbowl where logistics demand it. Going to a concert where an act is known for being musically competent (ie not a pop act) and finding out they're miming is a different matter.

The chilli's and the above metallica clip (for the few seconds i could tolerate it) used whats known in the industry as a "TV mix" - a mix where usually just the lead vocals are taken out (in the metallica clip the backing vocals are still hetfields), and the artist sings live over them. It's been done for years. TOTP dabbled between TV mixes and full on lip syncing depending on the act, but there are times where the act performs fully live (they saved that for TOTP2)

So, in my opinion. band miming at huge national/global event/awards show - fine. miming at their own gig you're paying money to see - naughty*



*certain backing tracks, to augment a live performance would be permitted of course

Say Your Number

I remember Lordi being caught out a few years ago, but I saw them last year and they were brilliant, I didn't think they were miming, I hope this was just a once off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Dy7AaNtz8E

Wrongway1985

120_Minutes wrote: »

So, in my opinion. band miming at huge national/global event/awards show - fine. miming at their own gig you're paying money to see - naughty

Wouldnt disagree there its exposure for an act more than likely outside their fanbase I pretty much tend to give those sort of things a miss anyway. As a member of a band you'd prob feel like a plonker when it came to carrying it out though.

As a fan paying to go see live music, LIVE Music is what you've paid for so it should be what you get to recieve a mimed up show you've been cheated by the people you invested time in.

Went to see Alter Bridge back in October, Shinedown supported and while some of the gig was live it was obvious that unfortunately Brent Smith was miming his ass off mainly during big choruses and high notes he'd cup his mic in a strange way or turn his back on the crowd and face the drummer. I paid to go see AB so wasn't overly fussed but even though I like some Shinedown I wondered if they actually do that at their own gigs, either way dont think after that experience I'd risk buying a ticket to a show of theirs.

Bands like A7X and BFMV use backing track vocals but I think maybe thats another story particularly in A7X's case as their drummer who sang those has passed on.

pleasant Co.

Don't know if anyone here has read Flea's response on the matter, it's worth a gander though.

In terms of the superbowl halftime show I don't really care about miming, it's mostly for a televised audience and those people who are actually there are so far from the action there can't be much of an atmosphere anyway. A mimed live concert though, no, that's not on, I'd be very pissed off if I went to a mimed gig.

sawdoubters

of course its wrong,i could listern to a cd at home rther than paying lots of money at a venue

Motley Crue

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

Bands like A7X and BFMV use backing track vocals but I think maybe thats another story particularly in A7X's case as their drummer who sang those has passed on.

I agree, I personally think that kind of thing is forgivable to a certain extent, especially if the "backing vocalist" has a completely different sound or style to the lead vocalist (whose doubled his vocals on the studio version) and so the live version of the song really suffers as a result

The funny thing is that although I agree with the responses on this thread, I've heard others complain - most notably with Bob Geldof recently on the Boomtown Rats tour - that vocalists can be so out of key or sound so bad that you'd almost wish you were listening to the CD, sometimes you purchase a ticket to see a concert based purely on nostalgia and end up realizing the vocalist (or band) have just either lost the talent they had or that the album was far too produced for it's own good and they really don't sound like that live

120_Minutes

Motley Crue wrote: »

vocalists can be so out of key or sound so bad that you'd almost wish you were listening to the CD, sometimes you purchase a ticket to see a concert based purely on nostalgia and end up realizing the vocalist (or band) have just either lost the talent they had or that the album was far too produced for it's own good and they really don't sound like that live

*cough*Ian Brown*cough*

DrumSteve

I'd read that Van halen still use Michael Anthony's backing vocals live (then again MA was probably the best in the business at that). Also heard a rumour that Ozzy uses a soundalike the sings from the side of the stage while he's on, but that's probably bull****.

Zwillinge

Since the Superbowl is such a big big show pumped full with advertising and if one thing goes wrong, we all have to hear about it, non-stop fora month, I can kinda understand the producers wanting it to go smoothly and without any messes.

For pop acts/folk jumping/dancing/back flipping I can understand a need for prerecording or else its "And baby *gasps* I love *deep breath* how you *collapse*" (More so how I imagine me doing it, I suppose)

But for RHCP, I figured they'd just do the best show they could possibly do. I seen them once before and thought they were woeful live, but then see DVDs of them and know they can play live without fault.

When your show is more about the instruments and the lyrics then the flashy/dancey/streamers affair then it should be live. Or else you shouldn't be up there.

And yes, I'd be well annoyed if I paid monies for a band who mimed and didn't exactly earn it.

Seen the Bob Dylan post above - have never seen him live and really really want to (been a fan since birth, basically) but also afraid he'll sound terrible (not a youngster anymore) or I'll notice the miming and be irritated. :(

Engine No.9

Zwillinge wrote: »

But for RHCP, I figured they'd just do the best show they could possibly do. I seen them once before and thought they were woeful live, but then see DVDs of them and know they can play live without fault.

I've seen em live twice now and they were, as you said, woeful both times. All my mates who have seen em on multiple occasions have said the same and it's not just irish shows either. Live tracks and dvd tracks are infamously remastered and remixed and in another of cases, particularly with vocal tracks, rerecorded. So I wouldn't pay any heed to what you see on a dvd, except of course to enjoy it for the piece of entertainment it is.

Kess73

DrumSteve wrote: »

I'd read that Van halen still use Michael Anthony's backing vocals live (then again MA was probably the best in the business at that). Also heard a rumour that Ozzy uses a soundalike the sings from the side of the stage while he's on, but that's probably bull****.

Thought someone confirmed that there is a singer that sings along with Ozzy and "helps" him reach certain notes.


Pretty sure I read an interview from someone who was a support act and he was on about Ozzy's backstage "backing singer".

MetalDog

slavetothegrind wrote: »

there is no excuse, it is cheating and deception.

There has been rumours about miming and other performance aids in metal for years.

I remember Maiden being accused of having someone else playing the guitar track backstage during the live after death tour, rediculous!

I never heard the Maiden one before, it seems just a bit ludicrous. Especially with 3 guitarists now.

I did however hear that Ozzy has a soundalike guy singing backstage for him heard that few times, although I've no idea if this is true.

Good article on lip syncing; more about pop artists etc but still. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/01/arts/music/01NELS.html?pagewanted=1

DrumSteve

Kess73 wrote: »

Thought someone confirmed that there is a singer that sings along with Ozzy and "helps" him reach certain notes.


Pretty sure I read an interview from someone who was a support act and he was on about Ozzy's backstage "backing singer".

Must have read the same interview.

Though I think sharon went mental about it.

peter1892

MetalDog wrote: »

I never heard the Maiden one before, it seems just a bit ludicrous. Especially with 3 guitarists now.

I do remember being at a Maiden gig some years back and one of the guitarists was shaking hands with fans who were leaving the stage after the singalong bit in 'Heaven Can Wait' while his solo was going. I won't say who it was except that it wasn't Dave or Adrian

MetalDog

peter1892 wrote: »

I do remember being at a Maiden gig some years back and one of the guitarists was shaking hands with fans who were leaving the stage after the singalong bit in 'Heaven Can Wait' while his solo was going. I won't say who it was except that it wasn't Dave or Adrian

Any video of that? I mean his solos are sloppy at the best of times . .

peter1892

MetalDog wrote: »

Any video of that? I mean his solos are sloppy at the best of times . .

No, this was before smart phones & the like (1996). It was pretty funny though!

Back when I was a student we had a college night out where the band was a local wedding band, keyboards/guitar/drum machine. Pretty awful stuff...anyway they covered 'The Final Countdown' and when it got to the solo the singer shouted 'Mr. Frankie Van Halen on guitar!'. Frankie proceeds to turn the volume down on his guitar while letting his fingers run up & down the neck as the backing track kicked in! And this wasn't even good miming...it didn't help his cause that half of the crowd at the gig played in bands

stateofflux

its rock and metal , not x factor . miming is a cringeworthy joke for a rock metal band to be doing. in fact any gig that aint fully live deserves derision

MetalDog

peter1892 wrote: »

No, this was before smart phones & the like (1996). It was pretty funny though!

Back when I was a student we had a college night out where the band was a local wedding band, keyboards/guitar/drum machine. Pretty awful stuff...anyway they covered 'The Final Countdown' and when it got to the solo the singer shouted 'Mr. Frankie Van Halen on guitar!'. Frankie proceeds to turn the volume down on his guitar while letting his fingers run up & down the neck as the backing track kicked in! And this wasn't even good miming...it didn't help his cause that half of the crowd at the gig played in bands

that Final Countdown thing could have been taking the p!ss though, considering it was as you say a cheesy wedding band. Still wondering about the Maiden thing, 96 was during the Blaze Bayley era though the band was on the decline.

peter1892

I reckon a lot of big touring bands use backing tracks/samples etc to some extent. Some bands a very up front about it (e.g Rush). Others not so forthcoming. It could just be done to beef up the live sound or to help with backing vocals etc. But it may not be as obvious in a venue like the O2, but might be noticeable in a club.

As for Janick Gers - maybe his playing is so sloppy that they use a tape and he plays over it or along with it. That incident was amusing and it's stuck out in my mind ever since, but I didn't mind to be honest.

With vocalists of 'advancing years' I would be of the opinion that some of them are being given a bit of technological help. Sometimes. Other bands just tune the guitars down!

bnt

Rush is an example of a band whose stage show is now so choreographed and scripted that it's pushing the definition of "live". Geddy doesn't mime, but on recent tours his voice was definitely suffering, and I found myself semi-seriously wondering whether he might consider miming!

That's where the line is, I think - are you listening to a band, or are you watching a show? If I went to see Fiddler On The Roof on stage, I wouldn't be concerned about miming at all. Contrast that with where I was last night, listening to The Aristocrats: completely instrumental, so no worries about vocal miming there... :cool:

stateofflux

Miming would be anathema to a band like Rush. AFAIK literally every sound they play live is manually played or triggered in real time with their hands or feet..usually at the same time.

Motley Crue

That's interesting. Especially when you consider bands like KISS and The Rolling Stones. Are you watching the show or the artist? Do you really care about how powerful Jagger's voice is or do you just want to hear the Greatest Hits and see him strut in the flesh?