Redeployment in Post Primary

Sal7

lemmno wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone has any experiences/knowledge of how redeployment works in post primary? I've researched but from what I can make of it it seems near impossible to get. Im a permanent secondary school teacher and I want to move from east to west...but am reluctant to give up the cushion of my permanency to do so-any useful insights for me?
Thanks in advance!

In secondary sector...
If you have been accepted for voluntary redeployment you can refuse the first school offered to you if doesn't suit.You can either accept the second school offered or stay in your current school in which case another person will be compulsory redeployed.( Incidently I believe if the v.redeployed applicant turns 2 schools down they cannot reapply to scheme).Voluntary redeployment cases are handled first then compulsory -by the Dept of Ed.Voluntary redeployed people get their offers in April , (first round) , Compulsory Redeployed should know by end of May.If you cannot be redeployed within a 50 km radius of your home or school (whichever you have opted the 50km radius to be from) within your designated education sector for example VEC you will be passed to the Voluntary school Sector for screening of vacancies.(+vice versa). If there is still no match you are retained in your current school.

There is an option to choose where you want to be redeployed to-ie if you were living in Dublin and wanted to go to Donegal they will screen your preferred area for vacancies.

Furthermore yes you can asked to leave your job if not permanent to accomodate a redeployed person.

Its all quite random.
Anyone who I know that has been redeployed voluntarily or otherwise seem to have got on fine.

Hope that helps.
Sal

Sal7

gaiscioch wrote: »

Is there a secondary school redeployment panel established yet? At the moment there are 82 second level jobs advertised on educationposts.ie.

As I understand it, schools must recruit from a panel composed of teachers from over quota and closed schools first

If there is a panel in place, could these advertisements indicate that there aren't many people on it? I would have thought there is a sufficient number of over quota schools to supply teachers to new posts for a while. A new school in Greystones, Wicklow has no fewer than 17 jobs advertised today. Bearing in mind that the school is fewer than 50km from Dublin (the radius for teachers on the panel) do they have any onus to recruit from it?

Has the voluntary redeployment scheme at second level been set up yet either?

Yes v.redeployment scheme is in place.
Yes advertised jobs may be filled by people identified for redeploynent /identified as surplus to the needs of their school . The Director of Redeployment (based in Dept of Ed) screens applications compulsory and voluntary from March to May and makes allocations.It states in ads now that advertised jobs are available subject to position being filled by redeployed person. (Not in that exact wording -but you get the idea).Hope that helps.Sal

gaiscioch

Sal7 wrote: »

In secondary sector...
If you have been accepted for voluntary redeployment you can refuse the first school offered to you if doesn't suit.

This is what I had thought also. However, an ASTI representative said the actual situation is that you are given a single school and no choice. You can refuse alright, but then you're on your own. However, if having spent a year there and you and/or the school are not getting on, you can apply for a second school. But only then, after that year is up. Hopefully the ASTI representative is mistaken as it would cost the Department nothing to give people a choice at the outset.

Sal7

gaiscioch wrote: »

This is what I had thought also. However, an ASTI representative said the actual situation is that you are given a single school and no choice. You can refuse alright, but then you're on your own. However, if having spent a year there and you and/or the school are not getting on, you can apply for a second school. But only then, after that year is up. Hopefully the ASTI representative is mistaken as it would cost the Department nothing to give people a choice at the outset.

Unfortunately its not sraightforward;

People who have elected for Voluntary Redundancy are not given an initial choice between 2 schools but they are going do be offered the "best match" within their sector (Vol or ETB ) if possible.For instance if you have opted for voluntary redundancy and teach business studies (having studied Economics) -you could be offered as a potential teacher to a school ( that would suit you ) that is seeking a Maths teacher.It doesn't mean that you would teach Maths there -but they try for "best match."
The first offer is going to be the plum choice as they want to encourage (sought after) voluntary redundancy moves rather than (not necessarily sought by the individual) compulsory redeployment moves.

Yes there is an option to move after a year if you are not happy with position offered but thats conditional-(I think you have to show they were in error selecting that school for you).

Most people I know who were redeployed got good schools closer to home-they do try their best-but the process can last from start of February to April for Vol. Redundancy and end May/early June for Compulsory Redundancy -a long wait.

Furthermore, the ETB and Voluntary Schools have different administration and payment bodies.If you are moved from one to the other you have to get a p65 from one and start with other admin board a new including getting garda vetting etc.

Also-If you move from Voluntary school to another voluntary school you retain any post of responsibility if you have one but you now become least senior staff member in new school.If you go from Voluntary to ETB /ETB to ETB or ETB to voluntary school you retain your post also but you also retain seniority.The differences are due to different approaches /decisions taken on this by both TUI and ASTI-the variance in practices is reflective of members wants.(This is significant as when people are being considered for redeployment the school needs are assessed and principal looks at least senior teachers subjects etc first-if they are needed they proceed to next person on list.Also elected Compulsory Redeployed person cannot elect to be Voluntarily Redeployed-management will have to nominate a compulsory redeployment person-if there is a voluntary redeployed person the compulsory redeployed person has to wait until the voluntary redeployed nominees application is processed before they find out their fate.
Note-if you are on the Board of Management as a teacher and are elected for compulsory redeployment you are "locked out" of talks on same.Teachers on board of management have a voice-but the board generally goes along with evidence of curriculum audit etc.

Also if you want to be voluntarily redeployed the curriculum audit has to show that they can do without you for the next academic year; if they can't do without you , you stay regardless).

Appeals can be made (you have a week/5 working days approx I think of after finding out)you have to show the board of management/school management body was in error electing you in first place.

Its hard to get info on this-so hope that helps someone somewhere.

rainbowtrout

Sal7 wrote: »

Unfortunately its not sraightforward;

People who have elected for Voluntary Redundancy are not given an initial choice between 2 schools but they are going do be offered the "best match" within their sector (Vol or ETB ) if possible.For instance if you have opted for voluntary redundancy and teach business studies (having studied Economics) -you could be offered as a potential teacher to a school ( that would suit you ) that is seeking a Maths teacher.It doesn't mean that you would teach Maths there -but they try for "best match."
The first offer is going to be the plum choice as they want to encourage (sought after) voluntary redundancy moves rather than (not necessarily sought by the individual) compulsory redeployment moves.

Yes there is an option to move after a year if you are not happy with position offered but thats conditional-(I think you have to show they were in error selecting that school for you).

Most people I know who were redeployed got good schools closer to home-they do try their best-but the process can last from start of February to April for Vol. Redundancy and end May/early June for Compulsory Redundancy -a long wait.

Furthermore, the ETB and Voluntary Schools have different administration and payment bodies.If you are moved from one to the other you have to get a p65 from one and start with other admin board a new including getting garda vetting etc.

Also-If you move from Voluntary school to another voluntary school you retain any post of responsibility if you have one but you now become least senior staff member in new school.If you go from Voluntary to ETB /ETB to ETB or ETB to voluntary school you retain your post also but you also retain seniority.The differences are due to different approaches /decisions taken on this by both TUI and ASTI-the variance in practices is reflective of members wants.(This is significant as when people are being considered for redeployment the school needs are assessed and principal looks at least senior teachers subjects etc first-if they are needed they proceed to next person on list.Also elected Compulsory Redeployed person cannot elect to be Voluntarily Redeployed-management will have to nominate a compulsory redeployment person-if there is a voluntary redeployed person the compulsory redeployed person has to wait until the voluntary redeployed nominees application is processed before they find out their fate.
Note-if you are on the Board of Management as a teacher and are elected for compulsory redeployment you are "locked out" of talks on same.Teachers on board of management have a voice-but the board generally goes along with evidence of curriculum audit etc.

Also if you want to be voluntarily redeployed the curriculum audit has to show that they can do without you for the next academic year; if they can't do without you , you stay regardless).

Appeals can be made (you have a week/5 working days approx I think of after finding out)you have to show the board of management/school management body was in error electing you in first place.

Its hard to get info on this-so hope that helps someone somewhere.

I agree with all of this, but again theory and practice are very different beasts. One of our teachers applied for and got voluntary redeployment closer to home.

The teacher who left was our only physics teacher. The replacement redeployed into that position from another school which was over quota was a biology teacher. I am now the physics teacher (by choice) and am doing extra modules to become qualified in the long run.

Sal7

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I agree with all of this, but again theory and practice are very different beasts. One of our teachers applied for and got voluntary redeployment closer to home.

The teacher who left was our only physics teacher. The replacement redeployed into that position from another school which was over quota was a biology teacher. I am now the physics teacher (by choice) and am doing extra modules to become qualified in


Yes they try to do a "best match" -physics/biology -at least they were both science subjects.That was tough for you but supportive of you-it left your colleague free to move .

rainbowtrout

Sal7 wrote: »

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I agree with all of this, but again theory and practice are very different beasts. One of our teachers applied for and got voluntary redeployment closer to home.

The teacher who left was our only physics teacher. The replacement redeployed into that position from another school which was over quota was a biology teacher. I am now the physics teacher (by choice) and am doing extra modules to become qualified in


Yes they try to do a "best match" -physics/biology -at least they were both science subjects.That was tough for you but supportive of you-it left your colleague free to move .

Science, yes, but physics and biology aren't remotely similar at the same time. I'm already qualified in chemistry and maths and have software engineering qualifications so would have been familiar with the majority of what is on the course, so it wasn't a huge leap. It's also been a significant improvement to my timetable so it was win win all round.

gaiscioch

It appears there are two, quite distinct redeployment programs: one which is for teachers surplus to requirements, another which is for teachers in schools which are closing down. According to the first source there was at the time discussions on creating a third redeployment scheme, for teachers who want to volunteer to move.

I was, and am, referring to the school closure teachers: "the teacher’s preference where more than one post exists" would imply they don't guarantee you a choice, but if there is one, they might give it to you.

Additionally, "It will be open to the parties at the behest of a redeployed teacher or a receiving school to seek a review of a redeployment decision by the Director by 31st March of the year after redeployment took place. In conducting this review the Director will consider the extent to which the terms of the scheme were met and any other relevant factors raised by the parties. The Director may at his/her absolute discretion either confirm the original redeployment or put in place a revised redeployment within the terms of the scheme."

gaiscioch

I'm surprised to read the following exclusion:

"Teachers redeployed in consequence of these arrangements will transfer their reckonable teaching service for promotion purposes in the closing
school to the receiving school and this service will be reckonable for promotion purposes in the receiving school. This is subject to one
exception that a teacher being redeployed from a closing voluntary secondary school to a receiving voluntary secondary school will not transfer
reckonable teaching service for promotion purposes." (Source)

What is the justification for the highlighted part?

man_no_plan

The seniority situation. If you were next in line when someone with say two years more transferred over (when posts existed) it could knock you back down. I can see why it was done in a way if I was in that position. If promotion was more merit based it wouldn't be as big an issue.

With the new promotional procedures that should probably be changed as the 4quartiles should balance I out a bit id say.