State Examinations (SEC) Question

prancer

I think my ideal job would be an Advising Examiner for JC/LC, I know ever since college that is what I wanted to do.

I have been teaching since 2010 and correcting DEB, Examcraft and State- all levels and both JC and LC for Geography.

How do you actually become an advising examiner? Does it go on the amount of years experience you have correcting or teaching?

I have an Honours Masters in Geography also (that's how much I love it!) and have deferred a PhD for 4 more years.

Does anyone know the process???

spurious

You correct for a number of years and then you are asked I think. I can't ever remember seeing them advertised. They rather have people they know, from what I see. I think the quality of your reports following exams would have a bearing too.

Inspector Coptoor

And it's not a full time job either

evolving_doors

Generally speaking I find that those who run courses for subject associations are in with a chance and move in the same circles as each other...not in a bad way but really into their subject and believe in the philosophy/history of it.. For example...do you know how the subject curriculum was designed and the reasoning behind it...what was there before...international trends..uk trends in particular! Can you name any respected well known members in your subject...
Basically start networking...and researching..

rainbowtrout

I wouldn't agree with the above. People in my subject area who are advising examiners have been correcting for years and are very experienced. They know their subject area inside out and are good at correction and assessment. It's not a job you can apply for, it's one that is offered to you if they think you are good enough. Correcting exams is key. A person is not going to be offered an advising examiner position if they are not already involved in the corrections. Also it's not a full time job. It's the same as correcting in the summer, short term work.

evolving_doors

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with the above. People in my subject area who are advising examiners have been correcting for years and are very experienced......

Apologies, my post should have mentioned that correcting exams was essential...I took that part of the requirement as a given as previous posters had mentioned it! But would definitely agree that you would be asked....

Although, given that it is a public service position it would be still advertised no? I'm sure I saw an ad for one on examinations.ie before... Also I suppose the new JC will severely limit any potential vacancies over the coming years.

rainbowtrout

Armelodie wrote: »

Apologies, my post should have mentioned that correcting exams was essential...I took that part of the requirement as a given as previous posters had mentioned it! But would definitely agree that you would be asked....

Although, given that it is a public service position it would be still advertised no? I'm sure I saw an ad for one on examinations.ie before... Also I suppose the new JC will severely limit any potential vacancies over the coming years.

Chief Examiners/Examinations Managers jobs are publicly advertised. They head up all operations in their subject area. Hiring and firing of correctors I'd imagine, annual reports on their subject area, overseeing the corrections procress. The people that are doing those jobs in my experience tend to be in their 50s/60s and have plenty of teaching and correcting experience and possibly are involved in other ways that you mentioned above.

I'd also agree that less examiners of any type will be needed as Junior Cert exams are phased out.

spurious

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I'd also agree that less examiners of any type will be needed as Junior Cert exams are phased out.

Until they bring them back again in about 10-12 years.;)

clunked

To be honest, there are a fair number of examiners and advising examiners in most subjects who are retired teachers. Time to put them out to pasture. They have pensions which most current teachers will never get.

rainbowtrout

clunked wrote: »

To be honest, there are a fair number of examiners and advising examiners in most subjects who are retired teachers. Time to put them out to pasture. They have pensions which most current teachers will never get.

Why? Just because they are retired? The examinations process is one which really needs experience. Just because a person has a degree does not mean they will be a good examiner or have an idea of how to run the examinations. That does come with experience and putting in the years correcting and assessing.

spurious

Just because they are retired does not mean they are on a decent pension. Mine will be barely into 5 figures and I have no problem applying for exam work if I can get it.

evolving_doors

I'd echo that... My last two years third years results were crazy..students who should have failed got B's and students who should have gotten A's got B's..... I get the feeling that it was newer entrants , as the results were illogical!
Before I would have said the same (let newer entrants in and and retire of the oldies)..now I'm not so sure....Although the pressure was fairly on for correcting this year..more papers/less time..

seavill

I have no issue with retired people and I certainly don't necessarily believe that young teachers should be given these positions. I believe they do come with experience and time. You need to be in the system a long time and have experience of many different aspects of the whole education system not just corrected a few papers for a couple of years.

However right or wrong I believe those that are retired should be that, retired. There will be people below those people that have been in the examinations system for 20 + years that it is now their turn to step up to the plate and do the job before they retire and are replaced by the next crew.
Again its nothing against retired people personally but you have left the system now, like another thread about inspectors after a year or two out you are far removed from the realities of teaching, and again you had your stint allow others theirs.

prancer

Thanks for all the responses everyone!! I actually know two advising examiners who i didnt know were in the job, they work at my school so got advice off them. its 5 years+ until a vacancy arises and then the CEO chooses the best candidate based on teaching experience etc.

I know its only temporary but would be a handy number to have all the same.

RE: retired folks correcting- i don't mind really so long as its not the 70 + people doing it! I have a great friend with a phD in Irish, she's 26 and has gaeilge in her blood. Has worked at University level for over 4 years and still cannot break into correcting for state. I've heard the Irish conference is full of retired people but fair play to them all the same!

I wonder what the system will be when the Junior Cert is phased out. Will those examiners be moved to Leaving Cert corrections?

rainbowtrout

prancer wrote: »

Thanks for all the responses everyone!! I actually know two advising examiners who i didnt know were in the job, they work at my school so got advice off them. its 5 years+ until a vacancy arises and then the CEO chooses the best candidate based on teaching experience etc.

I know its only temporary but would be a handy number to have all the same.

RE: retired folks correcting- i don't mind really so long as its not the 70 + people doing it! I have a great friend with a phD in Irish, she's 26 and has gaeilge in her blood. Has worked at University level for over 4 years and still cannot break into correcting for state. I've heard the Irish conference is full of retired people but fair play to them all the same!

I wonder what the system will be when the Junior Cert is phased out. Will those examiners be moved to Leaving Cert corrections?

This means little or nothing. She's not teaching at second level and so is not familiar with the syllabus or what the correction of it entails. Realistically she'd have to be teaching at second level to get in.

Junior Cert examiners will only be moved to Leaving Cert corrections if/when vacancies become available. There are already people correcting at Leaving Cert, if they choose to stay on correcting there is no space for JC correctors.

It's not a job you are automatically entitled to if you have done it before, you have to apply every year and sure if you've done it for years and proved you are capable then you will probably be offered it again the following year but it's not automatic.

implausible

rainbowtrout wrote: »

This means little or nothing. She's not teaching at second level and so is not familiar with the syllabus or what the correction of it entails. Realistically she'd have to be teaching at second level to get in.

+1. You have to be teaching in the system to mark papers, especially at LC level. Otherwise, you have no perspective on what you are doing. Someone with "Gaeilge in the blood" would probably become utterly depressed after marking JC Foundation papers for a few weeks:eek:

prancer wrote: »

Thanks for all the responses everyone!! I actually know two advising examiners who i didnt know were in the job, they work at my school so got advice off them. its 5 years+ until a vacancy arises and then the CEO chooses the best candidate based on teaching experience etc.

I wonder what the system will be when the Junior Cert is phased out. Will those examiners be moved to Leaving Cert corrections?

I didn't think the SEC even had a CEO, but I suppose it must. Afaik, advising examiners are picked by the Chief Advising Examiner in the subject, based on excellent marking experience. Writing good reports at the end of the marking seems to be a good indicator that you're suitable for the job.

I'm still holding out hope that the SEC will continue to still set and mark papers in my subject, English. I'm guessing that JC examiners will have to apply through the usual channels for LC and compete with people who have already marked at LC level.

rainbowtrout

implausible wrote: »

+1. You have to be teaching in the system to mark papers, especially at LC level. Otherwise, you have no perspective on what you are doing. Someone with "Gaeilge in the blood" would probably become utterly depressed after marking JC Foundation papers for a few weeks:eek:



I didn't think the SEC even had a CEO, but I suppose it must. Afaik, advising examiners are picked by the Chief Advising Examiner in the subject, based on excellent marking experience. Writing good reports at the end of the marking seems to be a good indicator that you're suitable for the job.

I'm still holding out hope that the SEC will continue to still set and mark papers in my subject, English. I'm guessing that JC examiners will have to apply through the usual channels for LC and compete with people who have already marked at LC level.

This is spot on.

I would imagine that JC correctors will get in to LC corrections as vacancies come up, but what will be difficult for new teachers is to get in at all with no experience when they are competing with all the teachers that have corrected and have a proven track record at JC.

I'd imagine for those that are considering staying correcting for the long term it might be prudent to start considering the move to LC now, before the rush as JC subjects are transferred over to the new system of internal school assessment.

implausible

red_fox wrote: »

I admit that the subject might make a difference but I've taught at third level and never at second level; I was offered a place marking the second year I applied and then marked maths for three years in a row.

I know plenty of people who have marked in the past who haven't taught, but it was at JC level. I think that coming from outside the system, even with the two day conference, you could have a very different set of expectations than someone who is at the coalface.

On retirees - I can see the value of the experience that they could bring to the job, but after, let's say, five years out of the job, there's too much of a distance from the system and the changes within in for that experience to be useful.

Caiseoipe19

Does anyone know approximately when do you find out if you're application for correcting state exams has been successful?

Also, I've been told that they give preference to teachers that won't be getting paid over the summer. This true?

I'm coming at it as a teacher in my first year teaching with a contract till August, making plans for the Easter/Summer holidays.

Many thanks,

prancer

Caiseoipe19 wrote: »

Does anyone know approximately when do you find out if you're application for correcting state exams has been successful?

Also, I've been told that they give preference to teachers that won't be getting paid over the summer. This true?

I'm coming at it as a teacher in my first year teaching with a contract till August, making plans for the Easter/Summer holidays.

Many thanks,

My first time I heard about April. From then on, if you are successful, they'll send you a letter in late December or early January to ask you if you want to correct again.

From what I have heard at conferences, once you are in-stay in, regardless. People who drop out of correcting for state rarely get back in.

A lady told me last year that she had stopped for a year because she was having a baby that July and wasn't accepted again until 2 years after that, she believes because she agreed to correct in Irish.

It's a great thing to have on you CV and when interviewing for the job I currently have, the principal told me that it proves you are interested in your subject as well as your teaching career in the long term and it's why I stood out. So even if you leave this job keep it up.

My only advice though would be for next year to give ExamCraft or DEB a go also for practice. I do the mocks every year and it gives great scope into how students are learning and where they are falling down.