Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14 Mod warning post#7005

Vinz Mesrine

yomtea98 wrote: »

Well what is world class?

Someone who wouldnt look out of place in a world 11
Someone who wouldnt look out of place in the squad of a world 20/22

Fellaini does not and never will fit into either category.

Gbear

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

That's revenue

You said turnover and Spurs have been only around 20m behind Liverpool for the past two seasons.

Turnover = Revenue.

Kess73

5starpool wrote: »

As Lloyd said earlier, a lot of people in this thread are setting themselves up for having things thrown back in their faces in the high likelyhood that utd sign a great player/beat us on Sunday/finish ahead of us next season again.

Writing off a club who have a turnover far higher than ours because of one bad season so far is very short sighted. Saying that players will choose Madrid/Barca/PSG over Utd due to geographical or other factors is one thing, but much as I don't want it to be the case they are still one of the biggest names around, and a pinnacle for may players.

Yep. Writing off Man U on the back of what has been to date a poor season (by their standards) is just a tad rash.


They have been getting written off for the best part of a decade now and season after season they come back strong.

Regardless of the fact that Ferguson is gone and Moyes is in, they still remain a massive club with a massive global reputation, and they have the spending power to compete with the majority of the top clubs in the world.

One poor season will not make them an unattractive club to most top players, and it will take more than one poor season to push them into the same sort of upper midtable status that we have being "enjoying for the past five seasons.

I love seeing them do badly, and I love beating them, but I never write them off.

gafferino

5starpool wrote: »

As Lloyd said earlier, a lot of people in this thread are setting themselves up for having things thrown back in their faces in the high likelyhood that utd sign a great player/beat us on Sunday/finish ahead of us next season again.

Writing off a club who have a turnover far higher than ours because of one bad season so far is very short sighted. Saying that players will choose Madrid/Barca/PSG over Utd due to geographical or other factors is one thing, but much as I don't want it to be the case they are still one of the biggest names around, and a pinnacle for may players.

I may be wrong here as don't get involved in other threads or match threads too often.....but wasn't Lloyd sticking the boot in a fair bit over the last few weeks? Has he not set himself up?

Apologies if I'm wrong but sure I read people talking about it in here.

djPSB

rarnes1 wrote: »

Utd will always be able to attract big players. However, a mixture of no CL and more worrying(for world class players) David Moyes as manager, will probably mean they fall down the pecking order in some cases.

Exactly, United will still be able to sign good players but not players like Kroos, Fabregas etc.

Just cannot see them being able to compete with Madrid, Barcelona, PSG etc. when there's no CL and Moyes as manager.

Vinz Mesrine

Kess73 wrote: »

Yep. Writing off Man U on the back of what has been to date a poor season (by their standards) is just a tad rash.


They have been getting written off for the best part of a decade now and season after season they come back strong.

Regardless of the fact that Ferguson is gone and Moyes is in, they still remain a massive club with a massive global reputation, and they have the spending power to compete with the majority of the top clubs in the world.

One poor season will not make them an unattractive club to most top players, and it will take more than one poor season to push them into the same sort of upper midtable status that we have being "enjoying for the past five seasons.

I love seeing them do badly, and I love beating them, but I never write them off.

Have to agree with this. How can anyone write off a club who realistically could go out and spend 150m this summer without batting an eyelid?

Rayne Wooney

Gbear wrote: »

Turnover = Revenue.

Not all the time

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/apr/18/premier-league-club-accounts-debt

There's the guardian confirming what I have already told you

BloodBath

djPSB wrote: »

Exactly, United will still be able to sign good players but not players like Kroos, Fabregas etc.

Just cannot see them being able to compete with Madrid, Barcelona, PSG etc. when there's no CL and Moyes as manager.

Madrid And Barca can't buy all the worlds talent and offer them first team places.

PSG don't have anywhere near the prestige and history of United as a club.

Kess73

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

Have to agree with this. How can anyone write off a club who realistically could go out and spend 150m this summer without batting an eyelid?

Some clubs I would be willing to write off on the back of a bad season due to them simply not having the financial clout to take a bad season or two, and being forced to lose their best players as a result, but Man U are not that kind of club, and we could see them recruit real quality this summer (both on and off the pitch if there is any truth to the Van Gaal rumours) and come back strongly next season.

NukaCola

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

Have to agree with this. How can anyone write off a club who realistically could go out and spend 150m this summer without batting an eyelid?

Spurs tried that......didnt work out too well though.

Utd will be in transition for at least a few seasons, possibly longer if they stick with Moyes.

Also, no-one has written off Utd, most people getting their digs in while they can by the looks of things.

Kess73

Looking forward though to seeing us with close to a full squad available this weekend. Will be one of the few times this season that it has happened.

Gbear

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Not all the time

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/apr/18/premier-league-club-accounts-debt

There's the guardian confirming what I have already told you

Revenue and turnover are synonyms.

Does it explain the discrepancy in the numbers anywhere?

I was mixing up currencies with Deloitte and Forbes (one uses €, the other $) but that doesn't cover the difference.

Given that Liverpool seem to be making about 80m more than Spurs between Gate, TV and Commerical revenue, I don't see where they're coming up with the extra 60m quid from.

Mickalus

billy2012 wrote: »

Worst biscuit ever!!

That picture from the Madrid match brings back some great memories, Anfield was rocking big time!!!

Watched the highlights there, atmosphere was deadly! Great game.

Looking forward to nights like those again next season. Hopefully a strong finish over the next 10 games and auto-qualification from a top 3 spot.

SherlockWatson

Paulegend wrote: »

mata and rvp picked up season ending injuries

pretty low there buddy.

LiamoSail

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Not all the time

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/apr/18/premier-league-club-accounts-debt

There's the guardian confirming what I have already told you

As above, revenue and turnover are the same thing. Turnover obviously can relate to stock etc, but not on this case

Rayne Wooney

Gbear wrote: »

Revenue and turnover are synonyms.

Does it explain the discrepancy in the numbers anywhere?

I was mixing up currencies with Deloitte and Forbes (one uses €, the other $) but that doesn't cover the difference.

Given that Liverpool seem to be making about 80m more than Spurs between Gate, TV and Commerical revenue, I don't see where they're coming up with the extra 60m quid from.

Listen I'm going to go with the guardian, who say for the past two seasons spurs have been around 20m behind Liverpool in terms of turnover and not double as you suggested. You go with whichever one you want.

Gbear

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Listen I'm going to go with the guardian, who say for the past two seasons spurs have been around 20m behind Liverpool in terms of turnover and not double as you suggested. You go with whichever one you want.

Fair enough.

K-9

We really need another world class debate around here!

Rayne Wooney

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Not all the time

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/apr/18/premier-league-club-accounts-debt

There's the guardian confirming what I have already told you

Afaik, that Liverpool figure is for 10 months only (October 2011- July 2012)

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/apr/18/premier-league-finances-club-by-club

Turtyturd

K-9 wrote: »

We really need another world class debate around here!

Fo shu... I suggest the criteria to be ability to play in every position and be within the best 27 in the world in each position.

Rayne Wooney

rarnes1 wrote: »

Afaik, that Liverpool figure is for 10 months only (October 2011- July 2012)

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/apr/18/premier-league-finances-club-by-club

My mistake but the figures are still around 20m, 25 and 21 to be accurate.

Still that's a small gap compared to what people think it is, it was suggested Liverpool had double the turnover, maybe on Everton yes. It's not the first time I've heard it so I've checked before.

CL football would obviously bump that up and extra sponsors as well.

K-9

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Listen I'm going to go with the guardian, who say for the past two seasons spurs have been around 20m behind Liverpool in terms of turnover and not double as you suggested. You go with whichever one you want.

The Guardian are also treating turnover as revenue.

Player sales would be extra revenue but aren't treated as sales turnover because they are sales of assets and can go either way, profits or losses.

Knex*

K-9 wrote: »

We really need another world class debate around here!

Is there anything to be said for another mass?

Rayne Wooney

K-9 wrote: »

The Guardian are also treating turnover as revenue.

Player sales would be extra revenue but aren't treated as sales turnover because they are sales of assets and can go either way, profits or losses.

Honestly I've always taken those guardian figures as true as these discussions often pop up in the United thread and that link is always used without objection, so I haven't looked into it more.

Forbes have fairly strange figures a lot of the time, if you google certain players' wages and click on the Forbes link it's often different to what the general good sources report in England. They have Rooney's earnings at X but then contradict that on their own website by putting him on a completely off figure on their top earning athletes list as far as I remember.

Morzadec

Obviously we weren't in action, but other results obviously effect us and it makes it easier to update after each game week.

From last week:

Morzadec wrote: »

1. Chelsea: +7
2. City: +3.5
3. Liverpool: +2.5
4. Arsenal: +1.5
5. Spurs: -3.5
6. Everton: -5.5
7. United -8.5

Updated:

1. Chelsea: +8
2. City: +3.5
3. Liverpool: +2.5
4. Arsenal: +1.5
5. Spurs: -4.5
6. Everton: -5.5
7. United -7.5


Chelsea are going to be really tough to catch

mitosis

BloodBath wrote: »

PSG don't have anywhere near the prestige and history of United as a club.

They are, however, in Paris.

5live

K-9 wrote: »

We really need another world class debate around here!

Surely its only a matter of time before net spend rears its head again, seeing as we are getting adept at splitting hairs round here:eek:

Iused2likebusts

yomtea98 wrote: »

Who wouldn't want to play alongside world class players like Rooney, Mata, Rvp and Fellani? We are one of the biggest teams in the world and are still a big draw.

Ye utd are still and always will be one of the biggest teams in the world and a big draw but lets be honest there is no way fellani is world class under any circumstance based on his career to date. Arguments could be made for the other 3 both ways. Rooney hasnt been anywhere near world class since that season he was up top by himself. I can see him having a great season next year and getting up to that level again if utd play him up top. Rooney when playing off rvp is not world class. RVP has reached his peak and is only going to decline his last season at arsenal and the first half of last season at Utd he was absolute quality. Cant see him getting to those levels again and I reckon there is a fair chance he wont be at utd next year. Mata is a player I really like and a great signing for utd if moyes ever plays him in his best position but not sure he can be mentioned as one of the top midfielders in the world. I reckon he is just below that level.
There are no guarantees that throwing 150 million at it will make things any better. 60 million on signings and the arrival of janujaz this season hasnt fixed the problems yet.

BloodBath

mitosis wrote: »

They are, however, in Paris.

That is true. I could understand living in Manchester wouldn't be the top of many players lists but will it really change things much when you're that minted?

GTR63

**** profits etc i'm not a fücking shareholder the figure that matters most to me is our position in the table. I'm very happy with that at present.

Rayne Wooney

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Ye utd are still and always will be one of the biggest teams in the world and a big draw but lets be honest there is no way fellani is world class under any circumstance based on his career to date. Arguments could be made for the other 3 both ways. Rooney hasnt been anywhere near world class since that season he was up top by himself. I can see him having a great season next year and getting up to that level again if utd play him up top. Rooney when playing off rvp is not world class. RVP has reached his peak and is only going to decline his last season at arsenal and the first half of last season at Utd he was absolute quality. Cant see him getting to those levels again and I reckon there is a fair chance he wont be at utd next year. Mata is a player I really like and a great signing for utd if moyes ever plays him in his best position but not sure he can be mentioned as one of the top midfielders in the world. I reckon he is just below that level.
There are no guarantees that throwing 150 million at it will make things any better. 60 million on signings and the arrival of janujaz this season hasnt fixed the problems yet.

I hope he was joking about Fellaini.

You're right about some things but RVP isn't in decline, bad form doesn't mean decline and his record shows 11 goals in 16 games this season which is still fairly impressive during a bad spell playing in a diabolical team. He still has maybe two seasons left at the very top level. He's píssed off Fergie told him he'd be around for years and left the season after he signs. RVP basically said Fergie was the main reason he was moving.

Your evaluation of Mata is also a bit ridiculous, he's arguably been the best player playing for an English team over the last season and the one before.

It would be fairly naive to think United signing players to play the problem position which has been plaguing the team for years wouldn't fix things when it's so clear it is a main problem. Cleverley and Carrick ain't good enough and that's been our midfield for most of this season. I think we'll sign a big name midfielder in the summer and possibly a younger lad like Carvalho or Herrera, which will see an extraordinary improvement.

Courtesy Flush

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I hope he was joking about Fellaini.

You're right about some things but RVP isn't in decline, bad form doesn't mean decline and his record shows 11 goals in 16 games this season which is still fairly impressive during a bad spell playing in a diabolical team. He still has maybe two seasons left at the very top level. He's píssed off Fergie told him he'd be around for years and left the season after he signs. RVP basically said Fergie was the main reason he was moving.

Your evaluation of Mata is also a bit ridiculous, he's arguably been the best player playing for an English team over the last season and the one before.

It would be fairly naive to think United signing players to play the problem position which has been plaguing the team for years wouldn't fix things when it's so clear it is a main problem. Cleverley and Carrick ain't good enough and that's been our midfield for most of this season. I think we'll sign a big name midfielder in the summer and possibly a younger lad like Carvalho or Herrera, which will see an extraordinary improvement.

Can you take all this United talk back to its own thread ?

Rayne Wooney

Courtesy Flush wrote: »

Can you take all this United talk back to its own thread ?

You realise I quoted a post yes?

5live

GTR63 wrote: »

**** profits etc i'm not a fücking shareholder the figure that matters most to me is our position in the table. I'm very happy with that at present.

The last set of owners who spent more than we took in were a great success.

Three cheers for Gillette and Hicks.:mad:

Profit HAS to matter, unless you have a sugardaddy owner willing to pump 10s of millions in each year just to keep the club afloat aka Chelsea and Man City. If it didn't matter then we wouldn't have been hours away from bankruptcy and point deductions just 4 years ago.

Mickalus

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

On this day in 2009: Reds annihilate Real Madrid

Our next fixture after that:

Hopefully a repeat this time around. We haven't won there in the league since that game.

Time for another camera kiss?

Turtyturd

When does it stop being form and become standard, or their level?

Liam O

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Ye utd are still and always will be one of the biggest teams in the world and a big draw but lets be honest there is no way fellani is world class under any circumstance based on his career to date. Arguments could be made for the other 3 both ways. Rooney hasnt been anywhere near world class since that season he was up top by himself. I can see him having a great season next year and getting up to that level again if utd play him up top. Rooney when playing off rvp is not world class. RVP has reached his peak and is only going to decline his last season at arsenal and the first half of last season at Utd he was absolute quality. Cant see him getting to those levels again and I reckon there is a fair chance he wont be at utd next year. Mata is a player I really like and a great signing for utd if moyes ever plays him in his best position but not sure he can be mentioned as one of the top midfielders in the world. I reckon he is just below that level.
There are no guarantees that throwing 150 million at it will make things any better. 60 million on signings and the arrival of janujaz this season hasnt fixed the problems yet.

United will be buying at the very least vast upgrades to the current crop in midfield and left back which have been huge problem areas this season. Moyes ignored them in January, I believe because he has a lot of deals very far along for the Summer. Mata has been in the top 3 attacking players in the league for a while now so don't see how you can say he's below the top level. Fellaini is better than anyone Liverpool, Spurs and maybe Arsenal have in his position too imo, just hasn't gotten the chance to prove it. There are quality players not playing atm that while it doesn't look like some will be staying, I still hold hope for.

I think next season will be vastly different at United, and the players will be more hungry and motivated than ever to right the wrongs of this season. Mata shows that top players will sign even when it's not looking good and Moyes is putting huge hours into identifying the right players. So far he's 2 for 2 signings wise and with Januzaj and Rooney signing on it only gets better. The difference in the team when 2 competent CMs are in there is already huge imo and can only get better with better full back options.

Liam O

Courtesy Flush wrote: »

Can you take all this United talk back to its own thread ?

It's actually hilariously telling that after the thousands of posts in the Liverpool superthread about United it's a United fan you quote and say this.

djPSB

Liam O wrote: »

United will be buying at the very least vast upgrades to the current crop in midfield and left back which have been huge problem areas this season. Moyes ignored them in January, I believe because he has a lot of deals very far along for the Summer. Mata has been in the top 3 attacking players in the league for a while now so don't see how you can say he's below the top level. Fellaini is better than anyone Liverpool, Spurs and maybe Arsenal have in his position too imo, just hasn't gotten the chance to prove it. There are quality players not playing atm that while it doesn't look like some will be staying, I still hold hope for.

I think next season will be vastly different at United, and the players will be more hungry and motivated than ever to right the wrongs of this season. Mata shows that top players will sign even when it's not looking good and Moyes is putting huge hours into identifying the right players. So far he's 2 for 2 signings wise and with Januzaj and Rooney signing on it only gets better. The difference in the team when 2 competent CMs are in there is already huge imo and can only get better with better full back options.

Did I read your post wrong or are you implying that Fellaini is better than Gerrard?

Iused2likebusts

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I hope he was joking about Fellaini.

You're right about some things but RVP isn't in decline, bad form doesn't mean decline and his record shows 11 goals in 16 games this season which is still fairly impressive during a bad spell playing in a diabolical team. He still has maybe two seasons left at the very top level. He's píssed off Fergie told him he'd be around for years and left the season after he signs. RVP basically said Fergie was the main reason he was moving.

Your evaluation of Mata is also a bit ridiculous, he's arguably been the best player playing for an English team over the last season and the one before.

It would be fairly naive to think United signing players to play the problem position which has been plaguing the team for years wouldn't fix things when it's so clear it is a main problem. Cleverley and Carrick ain't good enough and that's been our midfield for most of this season. I think we'll sign a big name midfielder in the summer and possibly a younger lad like Carvalho or Herrera, which will see an extraordinary improvement.

I didnt say rvp is in decline just that he has reached his peak and is certainly not going to get better like most players that are in their 30's. I dont think rvp has been good this year granted his goalscoring stats are impressive but he was unbelievable for that 18 mth stretch I mentioned. Mata as I said I really rate but I think he is a tier down from the top level of players. My definition of world class would be fairly narrow about 20-30 players max, everyone views this different. I agree having money should help to fix the problems but I just said its no guarantee. The back 4 has become as big an issue as central midfield for yous now IMO.

michael999999

Mickalus wrote: »

Our next fixture after that:

Hopefully a repeat this time around. We haven't won there in the league since that game.

Time for another camera kiss?

See the guy from Sons of Anarchy in the crowd!

Agent Coulson

michael999999 wrote: »

See the guy from Sons of Anarchy in the crowd!

Hellboy

Liam O

djPSB wrote: »

Did I read your post wrong or are you implying that Fellaini is better than Gerrard?

He is.

Mickalus

Liam O wrote: »

He is.

In what position are you referring to?

Rayne Wooney

Mickalus wrote: »

In what position are you referring to?

Goalkeeper

Francie Barrett

djPSB wrote: »

Did I read your post wrong or are you implying that Fellaini is better than Gerrard?

Jordan Henderson has been sensational in the last year too.

gafferino

Liam O wrote: »

He is.

F&ck me, that's a good one. Well played sir.

Knex*

Liam O wrote: »

He is.

Somebody should go tell Fellaini that so, as he certainly hasn't played like it.

K-9

Liam O wrote: »

It's actually hilariously telling that after the thousands of posts in the Liverpool superthread about United it's a United fan you quote and say this.

I suppose it's hard to forget you aren't our rivals this season!

Seriously, United can throw money at your problems, we can't as much. Your main problem is your manager, but if the board throw enough money at players it shouldn't be a major problem in the medium to long term.

Edit: Wellbeck has a better goals per minute ratio than RVP when penalties are taken out of it!

Grayditch

2 weeks away from the thread, I might just sit back in the cell until this blows over...