Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14 Mod warning post#7005

rob316

Knex. wrote: »

I think perhaps you're missing the point. Or, rather, the humour.

Regardless, I doubt anyone misses Jay Spearing. I'd be absolutely shocked if they did.

Gave his all, which is commendable, but ultimately, he's not good enough.

Spot on ultimately never was good enough and never will be.

Kerrigooney

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yeah, I reckon anyone criticizing a player like Spearing who was cheap and tried his absolute very best for us every minute he was on the pitch are really missing the point.

What is the point?

Knex*

Kerrigooney wrote: »

What is the point?

klose

Spearing is just take the nemaja matic route in his career, he'll be back. Pacheco too!

ciaranmac

whatawaster wrote: »

It remains to be seen how succesful City will be in bringing any young players through. I know they have great intentions, but when they have that much money and owners who will crave success it will be difficult for them to bring any young players through. Chelsea have basically brought no one through since Terry and I can see it being similar at City.

Plenty of good players come through, get farmed out on loan and eventually get sold on. Can't think of any who nailed down a first team place, though the likes of Sturridge has proven he would have been good enough for either team if given the chance.

Milkers

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yeah, I reckon anyone criticizing a player like Spearing who was cheap and tried his absolute very best for us every minute he was on the pitch are really missing the point.

I reckon granting a professional footballer immunity from criticism based on the fact that they "try their best" is a signal that standards are unacceptably low. Trying your best should be a most basic prerequisite.

mada999

after watching the link someone put up with all our goals this season and after Gerrard scored a pen, bbc flashed up that Liverpool have got the most awarded penalties in the PL

Agent Coulson

mada999 wrote: »

after watching the link someone put up with all our goals this season and after Gerrard scored a pen, bbc flashed up that Liverpool have got the most awarded penalties in the PL

6 for 4 against is what we got this season so far.

Francie Barrett

opr wrote: »

Well done for regurgitating the twitter muppetry. If he was talking to City behind our back then as widely reported at the time it was because the club had reneged on a promised promotion for him.

Opr

You accuse Mike of "Twitter muppetry", yet you write something that is even more ridiculous.

Borrell had only just been given the role as head of the academy in 2012. To suggest that the club had reneged on a promotion seems ludicrous considering

1. He was already the top man at the academy.
2. He had only been in that role a year.

The truth in all this is actually quite simple. Begiristain inherited a youth system that hadn't produced any decent players of note since the likes of Micah Richards and Daniel Sturridge. It was not performing particularly well in under 21 football, that was clear to see from the drubbing we inflicted on them last season. I am sure that the first thing Begiristain would want to do was to bring in his brand of continental football to the youth team. And what better man to do that than Rodolofo Borrell. A coach he knows, who plays a brand of football he wants at City, who also speaks English and understands the game here. It should be no surprise to anyone that Borrell could be swayed to work with an old chum who would bring him the best players in the world to work with. The fact that he would have dangled a big bag of cash into the bargain would have sealed the deal.

You don't sack a successful head of academy mid-season, and certainly not when no one had been lined up as a successor.

LiamoSail

Milkers wrote: »

I reckon granting a professional footballer immunity from criticism based on the fact that they "try their best" is a signal that standards are unacceptably low. Trying your best should be a most basic prerequisite.

While I agree, the sentiment of "he did his best for the club" has been enough to excuse others of their faults to a large degree. It's easy to use that for popular figures, Lloyd is at least being consistent in applying it

mayordenis

Agent Coulson wrote: »

6 for 4 against is what we got this season so far.

Are we going to get into our net awarded penalties? If so, new peak for Liverpool superthreads.

gafferino

Interview with Teixera.....looking forward to seeing more of him.

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/158880-joao-to-win-friends-and-influence-people

"With time, you get to know the people and their personalities better. You talk more and you gain more confidence when you are with them. They are a great group and they help me a lot in training and even off the pitch.

"I am training with the first team and I am enjoying training each day with big names like Luis Suarez, Philippe Coutinho and Steven Gerrard. They talk normally, they ask me about my life - it's not that interesting, but they ask! They put me at ease."

Dickerty

Anyone see any links to highights of the Youth Cup game?

djPSB

gafferino wrote: »

Interview with Teixera.....looking forward to seeing more of him.

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/158880-joao-to-win-friends-and-influence-people

"With time, you get to know the people and their personalities better. You talk more and you gain more confidence when you are with them. They are a great group and they help me a lot in training and even off the pitch.

"I am training with the first team and I am enjoying training each day with big names like Luis Suarez, Philippe Coutinho and Steven Gerrard. They talk normally, they ask me about my life - it's not that interesting, but they ask! They put me at ease."

Think he could have more of an impact next season than Suso and Alberto.

Dickerty

djPSB wrote: »

Think he could have more of an impact next season than Suso and Alberto.

Suso is must more direct, always on the move. Would work as a narrow winger with a FB outside him.
Teix is more of a slow, thoughtful player, a little deeper and more central. But probably not much in it.
As for Alberto, I think they will accept that they gave away this season bedding him in, working on his physicality, and had too few games to take risks starting him often. He has the ability and the build to do well, so I think we'll see him more and more...

gafferino

Dickerty wrote: »

Suso is must more direct, always on the move. Would work as a narrow winger with a FB outside him.
Teix is more of a slow, thoughtful player, a little deeper and more central. But probably not much in it.
As for Alberto, I think they will accept that they gave away this season bedding him in, working on his physicality, and had too few games to take risks starting him often. He has the ability and the build to do well, so I think we'll see him more and more...

Suso is not exactly a flier!!

Grayditch

LiamoSail wrote: »

While I agree, the sentiment of "he did his best for the club" has been enough to excuse others of their faults to a large degree. It's easy to use that for popular figures, Lloyd is at least being consistent in applying it

Well, without wanting to make this about anyone in particular, some posters have thrown the book at current players who also run around like headless chickens. Aspas. Borini. Assaidi. Did Jay Spearing show more effort than them?

What do we define as effort, anyway, running around on the pitch pointing? What about behind the scenes? How much do we know about effort there? Did Spearing reach the absolute maximum of his ability? Did he agonise on how to get better? Did he follow the coaches instructions to the letter? If he did I feel bad for him that it didn't work out and yet STILL I'm glad he's not running around for us.

What did we know about Rodgers' efforts when he started? I'd hazard a guess he put everything he had into managing this team and made his life about this club and it's tactics, but did he get a let off with some posters, when things were bad? Nah, cause we didn't see him running and pointing, yet here we are sitting in second now.

Jordan Henderson; young lad, big money, loads of pressure, digs from other managers, and has clearly given everything he has on and off the pitch, so he'll get my medal for effort. He has Liverpool in him now. If I was a name-on-jersey kinda guy, I'd be paying for 9 letters in Lifestyle next season. Don't even need to go into how Sterling has come along. Through effort. On the training ground, in the gym, I can only guess.

Aspas. Borini. Assaidi. All run and run and run.

So if I came across as harsh singling out an ex player who I'm not fond of, remember that I've never called a current member of the Liverpool team a "nothing player", or written off a manager before he even had a chance.

noodler

I have absolutely no idea what people have seen of Alberto to make them think he will be a player with a future at Liverpool.

Without sounding overly harsh now!

K-9

Spearing just wasn't up to Liverpool level, it's hardly damning criticism or anything. Bit like Cisokho this season, gives everything and is reliable but just lacks that extra to be a long term option. As long as they do that fans can't ask for much more than that.

I find it hard to know about Alberto one way or the other, I assume Rodgers is managing him a bit similar to Sterling and Suso last season, this one is about experience. I haven't seen enough to write Alberto off, put it that way!

gafferino

noodler wrote: »

I have absolutely no idea what people have seen of Alberto to make them think he will be a player with a future at Liverpool.

Without sounding overly harsh now!

Thats the thing though....we havent seen enough of him. He has looked decent in small cameos but its impossible to tell so far.

BoardsMember

K-9 wrote: »

Bit like Cisokho this season, gives everything and is reliable but just lacks that extra to be a long term option. As long as they do that fans can't ask for much more than that.

Ah come on now, Cissokho has looked very poor, whenever I have seen him anyhow. Good news though: http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/369119/Liverpool-decide-against-permanent-deal-for-Aly-Cissokho

donfers

suso, teixeira and luis alberto are our future

they'll not only dominate the premiership for the next 10 years but european and world football too

they are this generation's iniesta/messi/xavi

You may not quote me on any of the above unless it happens

LiamoSail

Grayditch wrote: »

Well, without wanting to make this about anyone in particular, some posters have thrown the book at current players who also run around like headless chickens. Aspas. Borini. Assaidi. Did Jay Spearing show more effort than them?

What do we define as effort, anyway, running around on the pitch pointing? What about behind the scenes? How much do we know about effort there? Did Spearing reach the absolute maximum of his ability? Did he agonise on how to get better? Did he follow the coaches instructions to the letter? If he did I feel bad for him that it didn't work out and yet STILL I'm glad he's not running around for us.

What did we know about Rodgers' efforts when he started? I'd hazard a guess he put everything he had into managing this team and made his life about this club and it's tactics, but did he get a let off with some posters, when things were bad? Nah, cause we didn't see him running and pointing, yet here we are sitting in second now.

Jordan Henderson; young lad, big money, loads of pressure, digs from other managers, and has clearly given everything he has on and off the pitch, so he'll get my medal for effort. He has Liverpool in him now. If I was a name-on-jersey kinda guy, I'd be paying for 9 letters in Lifestyle next season. Don't even need to go into how Sterling has come along. Through effort. On the training ground, in the gym, I can only guess.

Aspas. Borini. Assaidi. All run and run and run.

So if I came across as harsh singling out an ex player who I'm not fond of, remember that I've never called a current member of the Liverpool team a "nothing player", or written off a manager before he even had a chance.

I think you've taken me up wrong. I don't have an issue with anything you said about Spearing. My point was some will mock Spearing, yet defend others on the basis that they did their best. I was referring to Lloyd being consistent, irrespective of it being Spearing or a club legend

Agueroooo

Rodgers: I've had to tell #LFC players to ease off in training ahead of United showdown

mike65

Ken Early speaks on Steven Gerrard

Dickerty

gafferino wrote: »

Suso is not exactly a flier!!

He's no slouch though. He is more inclined to take the ball forward with him than to just pick a pass. Teix seems more thoughtful, will just lay it off simply if that's the right ball.

flanzer

Agueroooo wrote: »

Rodgers: I've had to tell #LFC players to ease off in training ahead of United showdown

I presume he means rash challenges etc. Need a full complement of players going into this one

Grayditch

LiamoSail wrote: »

I think you've taken me up wrong. I don't have an issue with anything you said about Spearing. My point was some will mock Spearing, yet defend others on the basis that they did their best. I was referring to Lloyd being consistent, irrespective of it being Spearing or a club legend

I was just using your post as a springboard for more general ranting on the topic, sorry, but I do get what you mean, now.

rob316

noodler wrote: »

I have absolutely no idea what people have seen of Alberto to make them think he will be a player with a future at Liverpool.

Without sounding overly harsh now!

Its funny but because we are having such a good season he cant get a look in, if we were having a midtable/transition season he would be getting plenty of games.

Still he is only 21, he has showed some glimpses of quality like the assist for Suarez vs Tottenham.

gafferino

Agueroooo wrote: »

Rodgers: I've had to tell #LFC players to ease off in training ahead of United showdown

Source?

Agueroooo

gafferino wrote: »

Source?

James Pearce The Echo

Grayditch

Cissokho is actually statistically our best cross stopper. Playing United at the weekend. Discuss

djPSB

K-9 wrote: »

Spearing just wasn't up to Liverpool level, it's hardly damning criticism or anything. Bit like Cisokho this season, gives everything and is reliable but just lacks that extra to be a long term option. As long as they do that fans can't ask for much more than that.

I find it hard to know about Alberto one way or the other, I assume Rodgers is managing him a bit similar to Sterling and Suso last season, this one is about experience. I haven't seen enough to write Alberto off, put it that way!

I don't think there's an issue with the likes of Cissokho filling in at left back occasionally. It's not ideal but it's not detrimental, left back isn't usually a game defining position.

A player of Spearing's ability playing central midfield for large parts of the season is detrimental though. Central midfield is the engine room of the team and it's a not a position that a team can afford to be carrying players in. Couple that with Charlie Adam playing alongside him and it's easy see why we struggled.

Tried his best but just not good enough for a team chasing CL football.

BoardsMember

Grayditch wrote: »

Cissokho is actually statistically our best cross stopper. Playing United at the weekend. Discuss

Lies, damn lies, and statistics. Cissokho is a very limited player. Runs a little up the wing, stops, turns back, passes it inside. All the time. Looks like he doesn't want the ball. I'm not looking for Dani Alves, but a little bit of football from him would be good. He's not at the races, will be happy to thank him for his effort and say goodbye at the end of the season.

garra

Dickerty wrote: »

Suso is must more direct, always on the move. Would work as a narrow winger with a FB outside him.
Teix is more of a slow, thoughtful player, a little deeper and more central. But probably not much in it.
As for Alberto, I think they will accept that they gave away this season bedding him in, working on his physicality, and had too few games to take risks starting him often. He has the ability and the build to do well, so I think we'll see him more and more...

Yeah, Alberto.. great skills and vision and could be useful in games where we need to unlock defences.
BUT.. I still haven't seen him break into an actual sprint (you know, with arms pumpin and all) from his usual show-pony canter "between the lines".. If he had half an engine I think we would have seen more of him in PL games this year. As with all criticisms of our players, I am ready and waiting for him to prove me wrong on the "engine" front.

mike65

Conor Coady got the assist as Sheffield Utd beat someone 1-0 last night, 10 win on the bounce and they could be in the play off positions with two more wins which is pretty damned good for at the bottom when Clough came in.

LuckyLloyd

Milkers wrote: »

I reckon granting a professional footballer immunity from criticism based on the fact that they "try their best" is a signal that standards are unacceptably low. Trying your best should be a most basic prerequisite.

Well that's a naive position to say the very least. The basic prerequisite for a professional footballer is that they are technically and athletically proficient enough for you to offer them a contract. We laud Suarez because he clearly tries harder than his teammates more consistently. It means more to him.

If every player tried there best every minute they were on the pitch Jay Spearing wouldn't be a good Championship footballer and Kevin Kilbane wouldn't have amassed so many caps for Ireland. The reality is that professional footballers DON'T try their very best all the time, far from it infact. If Charlie Adam tried his very best on and off the pitch he could be a league contending midfielder given the quality of his left peg. But he doesn't. He's lazy - particularly off the pitch - and given he was beside Spearing for some of his Liverpool displays we should appreciate and respect the fact that Spearing was giving us everything he had.

I would lump your position in with the 'but do they not earn enough money' incredulity when a player angles for a move on the basis of wages rather than a team's standing. There's no point holding a theoretical view of how footballers should act or behave. We inhabit the real world, and players that seem to be genuinely worthy of respect for their application and passion should receive it imo.

Dickerty

garra wrote: »

Yeah, Alberto.. great skills and vision and could be useful in games where we need to unlock defences.
BUT.. I still haven't seen him break into an actual sprint (you know, with arms pumpin and all) from his usual show-pony canter "between the lines".. If he had half an engine I think we would have seen more of him in PL games this year. As with all criticisms of our players, I am ready and waiting for him to prove me wrong on the "engine" front.

I have seen it in U21 games where he's been playing more advanced. We keep playing him in midfield, I guess to get him more used to the physicality, and as such he's looked out of his depth. He is tall, he's not a heavy-set guy, so with the right training plan, there is no reason we can't make him more explosive.

Be interesting to see him in pre-season, along with Suso, Teix, Ibe, Rossiter, DTS, Sinclair....

LuckyLloyd

Grayditch wrote: »

Well, without wanting to make this about anyone in particular, some posters have thrown the book at current players who also run around like headless chickens. Aspas. Borini. Assaidi. Did Jay Spearing show more effort than them?

What do we define as effort, anyway, running around on the pitch pointing? What about behind the scenes? How much do we know about effort there? Did Spearing reach the absolute maximum of his ability? Did he agonise on how to get better? Did he follow the coaches instructions to the letter? If he did I feel bad for him that it didn't work out and yet STILL I'm glad he's not running around for us.

What did we know about Rodgers' efforts when he started? I'd hazard a guess he put everything he had into managing this team and made his life about this club and it's tactics, but did he get a let off with some posters, when things were bad? Nah, cause we didn't see him running and pointing, yet here we are sitting in second now.

Jordan Henderson; young lad, big money, loads of pressure, digs from other managers, and has clearly given everything he has on and off the pitch, so he'll get my medal for effort. He has Liverpool in him now. If I was a name-on-jersey kinda guy, I'd be paying for 9 letters in Lifestyle next season. Don't even need to go into how Sterling has come along. Through effort. On the training ground, in the gym, I can only guess.

Aspas. Borini. Assaidi. All run and run and run.

So if I came across as harsh singling out an ex player who I'm not fond of, remember that I've never called a current member of the Liverpool team a "nothing player", or written off a manager before he even had a chance.

Yes, yes he did. Do you remember Spearing play? To label his performances as garden variety run of the mill in terms of running and effort is...well a position I'd strongly disagree with.

Paulegend

BoardsMember wrote: »

Lies, damn lies, and statistics. Cissokho is a very limited player. Runs a little up the wing, stops, turns back, passes it inside. All the time. Looks like he doesn't want the ball. I'm not looking for Dani Alves, but a little bit of football from him would be good. He's not at the races, will be happy to thank him for his effort and say goodbye at the end of the season.

tv makes football seem so easy. why are the paid so much to kick a ball????


i bet you dont rate lucas or allen too??

Grayditch

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yes, yes he did. Do you remember Spearing play? To label his performances as garden variety run of the mill in terms of running and effort is...well a position I'd strongly disagree with.

Maybe you're genuinely better at seeing more in performances like Spearing's than I am, but that's fair enough. After a number of irritating displays, it all came to a head for me in the F.A Cup Final where I lost all hope for him ever being even a squad player, but that's just my perspective. Not his fault.

K-9

BoardsMember wrote: »

Lies, damn lies, and statistics. Cissokho is a very limited player. Runs a little up the wing, stops, turns back, passes it inside. All the time. Looks like he doesn't want the ball. I'm not looking for Dani Alves, but a little bit of football from him would be good. He's not at the races, will be happy to thank him for his effort and say goodbye at the end of the season.

He's a limited player that gives his all, sure, that's what Lloyd and others are on about. Sure, I even said he isn't good enough to stay long term, so I don't even know what you are arguing about!

Dickerty

mike65 wrote: »

Conor Coady got the assist as Sheffield Utd beat someone 1-0 last night, 10 win on the bounce and they could be in the play off positions with two more wins which is pretty damned good for at the bottom when Clough came in.

That's an extraordinary run for a team at any level. Delighted for Coady to be a part of it, would be great if they came up and he was kept on permanantly...

BoardsMember

Paulegend wrote: »

tv makes football seem so easy. why are the paid so much to kick a ball????

Good one

Paulegend wrote: »

i bet you dont rate lucas or allen too??

Why would you say that? Do you think Cissokho is anywhere near the level of Lucas or Allen? I don't. I rate both of them very highly, Lucas is the responsible & tidy DM we have always prospered with & needed; and I love how Allen plays football, improving all the time and already a great man to have.

BoardsMember

K-9 wrote: »

He's a limited player that gives his all, sure, that's what Lloyd and others are on about. Sure, I even said he isn't good enough to stay long term, so I don't even know what you are arguing about!

Arguing against stats!!

gafferino

Rodgers nominated for February manager of the month.
Sturridge and Sterling nominated for player of the month. Would love to see Sterling win it.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11669/9210930/jose-mourinho-and-brendan-rodgers-lead-the-nominations-for-the-manager-of-the-month-award-for-february

K-9

Fascinating piece about Joe Fagan, would have been 93 today:
Smokin' Joe Fagan in 10 short stories - Liverpool FC

7. Walking to work
Can you imagine a Premier League manager living just down the road from his club's own ground and walking to work each day? It's a scenario that is barely imaginable in the modern era but Joe did exactly this, living in the same semi-detached house in Anfield from the day he joined the club in 1958 until the day he died in 2001. With his trademark sheepskin coat and flat cap he was often spotted making his way up Arkles Lane to the place he called work. Passers-by would acknowledge him with a nod of the head and a polite hello, to which he would reply in kind. He could have been anyone: a regular guy out for a morning stroll to the local newsagents to pick up the papers or a pint of milk. But this was Joe Fagan, manager of the most successful club in Europe at that time.


9. Celebrating the title with a brush and shovel
A goalless draw away to Notts County in May 1984 was enough to clinch the second leg of Liverpool's famous treble and the boss celebrated this momentous achievement in typical style - by sweeping the Meadow Lane dressing room floor! While most other managers in his position would have milked the occasion for what it's worth, knocking back the champagne, revelling in the back-slapping and basking in the media glare, Joe's only concern was leaving the place as he had found it, his only acts of over-indulgence that day being a rare interview with John Motson for Match of the Day and an extra-large whiskey while sat at home in his favourite armchair watching it back later that night.

Remarkable humility!

gafferino

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/158975-these-two-will-only-get-better-for-us

Rodgers on Henderson.....

He added: "As for Jordan, I don't think there's any doubt he deserves to be on that plane.

"He has made huge strides after coming into here as a young player with a big price tag. In the last 12 months he has really pushed on, both technically and tactically.

"He's a great learner. He pushes himself every day in training. He looks after his body and on top of that he's a real good young man. I know his family are very proud of him.

"I can see him being an important player for Liverpool for many years. At 23, he's only going to get better."

Milkers

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well that's a naive position to say the very least. The basic prerequisite for a professional footballer is that they are technically and athletically proficient enough for you to offer them a contract. We laud Suarez because he clearly tries harder than his teammates more consistently. It means more to him.

If every player tried there best every minute they were on the pitch Jay Spearing wouldn't be a good Championship footballer and Kevin Kilbane wouldn't have amassed so many caps for Ireland. The reality is that professional footballers DON'T try their very best all the time, far from it infact. If Charlie Adam tried his very best on and off the pitch he could be a league contending midfielder given the quality of his left peg. But he doesn't. He's lazy - particularly off the pitch - and given he was beside Spearing for some of his Liverpool displays we should appreciate and respect the fact that Spearing was giving us everything he had.

I would lump your position in with the 'but do they not earn enough money' incredulity when a player angles for a move on the basis of wages rather than a team's standing. There's no point holding a theoretical view of how footballers should act or behave. We inhabit the real world, and players that seem to be genuinely worthy of respect for their application and passion should receive it imo.

These "theoretical views" are generally known as principles and I would say there is quite a lot of point in holding them. And of course any statement with the word "should" in it can be cast as naive or idealistic. We are all well aware that in the real world there are lazy and diligent footballers. I agree the hard-workers deserve praise. I completely disagree that hard work makes a player ineligible for criticism.

NukaCola

If Moses put in the same effort as Spearing did on the pitch, i wouldn't be annoyed with him as much. He may turn out to be a decent player even.

Watching players fight for the club with their performances makes me like them much more. It doesn't make them better players technically or anything, its just something i like to see. Not saying i'd like Spearing back or anything but he gave his best and was always just a squad player, our lack of depth in midfield meant we overly relied on him in games he would never have started.