Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14 Mod warning post#7005

Knex*

gafferino wrote: »

Morzadec apologies if you replied to this already but in yesterdays alternative table, UTD hadnt changed from the previous week.....shouldnt they be worse off now?

Yeah, he mentioned it later. Down to -9.5 now, I believe.

Agueroooo

my little benchmark is still fine...

13points allowed slippage still intact for a 97% chance of CL football.

Knex*

If we don't get CL footie now, we'll be a laughing stock, and rightfully so.

No excuses.

Dickerty

Grayditch wrote: »

Fair play to Carragher and his composure talking about Spurs Arsenal, with possibly a big horn on him.

Reading back on ths thread, had a good old fashioned guffaw at that!!!

:D

klose

Augmerson wrote: »

Is Johnson still stalling on a new contract?

Tis the other way around apparently, the club hasent offered him a new one. Hes said it to the media twice recently so maybe he wants one. Id imagine if he wants to stay on he'll have to take a hefty pay cut, i dont see why he wouldnt take one as hes not going to bet his current salary elsewhere.
If you are into twitter chatter, di marzio whom seems very reliable has been saying for a while that we are trying to get sagna off arsenal. Personally dont think johnson will be here next season.

8-10

Paulegend wrote: »

the stuff he said about hendo last year and carroll and downing was correct. they needed to man up and step up. hendo did. same with sterling.

:eek:

garra

Originally Posted by garra
Were you gargling all day yesterday? To judge a manager's man management skills is simple, just look at the player now (the Rodgers version) and the pre-Rodgers version.
Tell me the net result of that change is not immense and that his tactical nous has not improved 100% (by the way I give Henderson most of the credit for his own transformation, but he was not getting that kind of guidance previously.)
I would say Rodgers is feeling proud rather than humbled by the transformation of the headless chickens and the disillusioned senior players he took over.
Time to sober up man, patricks day is over.

Turtyturd wrote: »

And all this change happened the day he took over?

Of course not, you dont judge a manager on his first day in the job, you wait until he has had a chance to buy his own players or (in our case) you wait for his coaching to bear fruit or not.
To claim that his handling of Henderson is poor because of the touted sale of said player is to deny the obvious failings of Hendo at the time, I too was skeptical that hard work could be his salvation.
Revisionism can work both ways...

Morzadec

Quite possibly the standout stat from the match - that is some quantity of tackles. His aggression and fight was brilliant - although he may need to curb it occassionally as he could have been sent off, and also United's only chance was arguably as a result of him getting caught too high up, a bit in no man's land.




Still, very impressive stuff again from Flanagan. Most (me included) didn't think he was even good enough as a backup. Now he's showing he could be good enough to command a regular starting spot even beyond just this season where we've been short.

Does he have any chance of making the England squad for this summer?

Francie Barrett

Turtyturd wrote: »

My comments were in response to a post made today, so this part is a bit stupid....if Gerrard made his comments yesterday, or tomorrow I'd still hold the same opinion

I think he handled the Carroll situation flawlessly. If there was ever a player in the Premier League who didn't suit our system, it's Andy Carroll. Even though I actually liked Carroll, there was simply no point playing him just because he cost us a fortune. No, the best decision was to move him on. By sending him out to West Ham on loan, we managed to eventually get £17M for him. That was brilliant business in hindsight.

Downing I felt a little bit sorry for, but even at his best best for us, his ability was just that bit short of where it needed to be for us. 2 assists and no goals in 23 games this season suggest that he is back to his level. Getting £7M for Downing was again decent business as the player will be 30 in the Summer and probably worth half that.

The decision to offer Henderson for sale was a mistake, but it worked out in the end. Henderson himself has acknowledged Rodgers' positive influence on his game, so the intervention has worked out quite nicely in the end.

Whatever about the players we've brought in (a few have been hit and miss, I will admit that), Rodgers has been spot on with just about every player he's moved on.

Nerdlingr

Wonder what the probelm with Nuri Sahin was that time ? Could have been class for us had he stuck around.

gafferino

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Wonder what the probelm with Nuri Sahin was that time ? Could have been class for us had he stuck around.

He's back posting now, no problems.

brevity

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Wonder what the probelm with Nuri Sahin was that time ? Could have been class for us had he stuck around.

The club didn't like his signature.

niallo27

Agueroooo wrote: »

my little benchmark is still fine...

13points allowed slippage still intact for a 97% chance of CL football.

Knex. wrote: »

If we don't get CL footie now, we'll be a laughing stock, and rightfully so.

No excuses.

Well you can lay top 4 if you want. 20 to win 500 quid on the exchange.

Demosthenese

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I think he handled the Carroll situation flawlessly. If there was ever a player in the Premier League who didn't suit our system, it's Andy Carroll. Even though I actually liked Carroll, there was simply no point playing him just because he cost us a fortune. No, the best decision was to move him on. By sending him out to West Ham on loan, we managed to eventually get £17M for him. That was brilliant business in hindsight.

Downing I felt a little bit sorry for, but even at his best best for us, his ability was just that bit short of where it needed to be for us. 2 assists and no goals in 23 games this season suggest that he is back to his level. Getting £7M for Downing was again decent business as the player will be 30 in the Summer and probably worth half that.

The decision to offer Henderson for sale was a mistake, but it worked out in the end. Henderson himself has acknowledged Rodgers' positive influence on his game, so the intervention has worked out quite nicely in the end.

Whatever about the players we've brought in (a few have been hit and miss, I will admit that), Rodgers has been spot on with just about every player he's moved on.

Even though the decisions were also wages related - Carroll and Downing were the last few on the crazy money - they were indeed the right decisions.

Still cannot believe that West Ham payed 17m for Carroll. Amazing stuff.

From the United game - Rodgers has also addressed the Coutinho issue, resting/dropping him so lets hope for a positive reaction like he has had with other players so we can see the best of him again.

Turtyturd

Morzadec wrote: »

Quite possibly the standout stat from the match - that is some quantity of tackles. His aggression and fight was brilliant - although he may need to curb it occassionally as he could have been sent off, and also United's only chance was arguably as a result of him getting caught too high up, a bit in no man's land.




Still, very impressive stuff again from Flanagan. Most (me included) didn't think he was even good enough as a backup. Now he's showing he could be good enough to command a regular starting spot even beyond just this season where we've been short.

Does he have any chance of making the England squad for this summer?

Waiting on an Ireland call up apparently.

Agueroooo

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Wonder what the probelm with Nuri Sahin was that time ? Could have been class for us had he stuck around.

I think we hadn't got the players to play Sahin to his strengths or in his preferred position.

Nuri didn't link being thinkered with and an opportunity became available for him to go back to his first love, so the club didn't stand in his way.

but my goodness I would love to have been able to throw him into that diamond formation we played on Sunday.
He would have ate up that space between Utd midfield and CB.

I am confident that if Sahin arrived tomorrow it would be a completely different experience for both player and club.

It was just bad timing but unfortunately we will not see that possibility again.

Agueroooo

niallo27 wrote: »

Well you can lay top 4 if you want. 20 to win 500 quid on the exchange.

please explain .
ta

citytillidie

gafferino wrote: »

Rodgers seems to have addressed our away day blues.
Since Jan 1st in all competitions:

P7 W5 D1 L1

The loss was the cup defeat to Arsenal and the draw the 1-1 with West Brom (Toure backpass).

It was always going to pick up with no big teams to play away

NukaCola

Agueroooo wrote: »

please explain .
ta

If you put 20 quid on LFC not to finish in the top 4 you could win 500 quid if they dont finish in the top 4........

Demosthenese

Agueroooo wrote: »

I think we hadn't got the players to play Sahin to his strengths or in his preferred position.

Nuri didn't link being thinkered with and an opportunity became available for him to go back to his first love, so the club didn't stand in his way.

but my goodness I would love to have been able to throw him into that diamond formation we played on Sunday.
He would have ate up that space between Utd midfield and CB.

I am confident that if Sahin arrived tomorrow it would be a completely different experience for both player and club.

It was just bad timing but unfortunately we will not see that possibility again.

Like Kagawa for United, no place for him, timing is off and the guy didn't fit in. That said both should have at least been making the decision harder to let them go.

No regrets.

gafferino

Excellent @Secondcaptains podcast yesterday discussing Rodgers and the match.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/second-captains

Fowler87

gafferino wrote: »

Excellent @Secondcaptains podcast yesterday discussing Rodgers and the match.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/second-captains

Yep. Ken Early has finally joined the fanclub :pac: What a singer

mike65

Starting 11 v Utd according to transfermarkt.com value in euro.

---

NOW

---

THEN
Mignolet

---

12.000.000

---

10.600.000
Agger

---

17.000.000

---

8.800.000
Skrtel

---

14,000,000

---

10.000.000
Flanno

---

1,000,000

---

Free
Johnson

---

12,000,000

---

20.500.000
Gerrard

---

7,000,000

---

Free
Allen

---

14,000,000

---

19.000.000
Hendo

---

15,000,000

---

18.000.000
Sterling

---

13,000,000

---

700.000
Sturridge

---

20,000,000

---

15.000.000
Suarez

---

52,000,000

---

26.500.000

---

175,000.000

---

121.100.000

Utd v LFC

Packet of Tayto and some lose change.

Agueroooo

If Twitter is to be believed then we will have a repeat of the Liverpool 'vs' Celtic friendly at the Aviva again this summer

mike65

Ah no thanks. Crap game, worst one of the entire season. Play Preston NE twice - home and away would be better.

niallo27

Agueroooo wrote: »

please explain .
ta

Get on betfair. You can lay them at 1.04. I also backed utd to win CL at 50/1 but I'm a pessimistic ****er.

whatawaster

mike65 wrote: »

Starting 11 v Utd according to transfermarkt.com value in euro.

---

NOW

---

THEN
Mignolet

---

12.000.000

---

10.600.000
Agger

---

17.000.000

---

8.800.000
Skrtel

---

14,000,000

---

10.000.000
Flanno

---

1,000,000

---

Free
Johnson

---

12,000,000

---

20.500.000
Gerrard

---

7,000,000

---

Free
Allen

---

14,000,000

---

19.000.000
Hendo

---

15,000,000

---

18.000.000
Sterling

---

13,000,000

---

700.000
Sturridge

---

20,000,000

---

15.000.000
Suarez

---

52,000,000

---

26.500.000

---

175,000.000

---

121.100.000

Utd v LFC

Packet of Tayto and some lose change.

These are fairly off the wall, especially

Sturridge 20m
Flanagan 1m

Agueroooo

mike65 wrote: »

Ah no thanks. Crap game, worst one of the entire season. Play Preston NE twice - home and away would be better.

shíte game but my young fella loved it.

he got to hold the Champions League Cup (the imitation one that's rolled out for charity events) and we had a good day all round.

was amongst the Celtic hardcore which was good craic and probably the best place for the atmosphere that day.

Paulegend

i know its goal.com but its a nice article

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2014/03/17/4689066/liverpool-already-the-neutrals-champions-now-they-can-win

~Rebel~

Morzadec wrote: »

I'm not sure about that...

It would be a phenomenal achievement, absolutely. And I agree that the league is very competitive, so much so that we could be talking about winning the league this year and not being anywhere near certs for qualification to the CL the following year.

However, I'm not sure that the Premier League has some of the best teams in Europe in it anymore.

What I mean is that if you asked me to name the top 5 teams in Europe 5 years ago, I would probably be naming 3 possibly 4 teams.

Same question now, and I would be considering whether to put 1 in.

This is exactly what shows that the league is more competitive now though.

Yes, there are single teams in other leagues who are better, but that's largely because they've hoovered up the best players from the smaller teams, meaning there are close to 30 games a season which are against vastly inferior teams.

In England, there are a tremendous amount of incredible players spread throughout the top 5, and plenty of strong lower level teams.

While a few Spanish and German teams are undoubtedly excellent, I think they wouldn't get close to their own domestic points tallies if they were to play in England.

Augmerson

Turtyturd wrote: »

Waiting on an Ireland call up apparently.

Yeah could he play for Ireland?

darced

This post has been deleted.

billy2012

Gerrard vs Man Utd.

mike65

God the Second Captains must have PhDs in talking like ****.

Oh and that muzak just loud enough to be heard....why?

Turtyturd

Augmerson wrote: »

Yeah could he play for Ireland?

No but it gets trotted out by lazy journalists every few months.

Pilsbury Doughboy

mike65 wrote: »

God the Second Captains must have PhDs in talking like ****.

Oh and that muzak just loud enough to be heard....why?

Mike, out of curiosity are you still thinking Stevie G should be retired?

Also are you still refusing to celebrate Suarez goals?

Kess73

Augmerson wrote: »

Yeah could he play for Ireland?

Same rumour was circulated before Euro2012.


The Liverpool Echo from back then.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-jon-flanagan-not-3354654

Agent Coulson

Well if Januzaj can play for England and Costa for Spain. Who knows who can play for who these days.

Dub13

Agueroooo wrote: »

If Twitter is to be believed then we will have a repeat of the Liverpool 'vs' Celtic friendly at the Aviva again this summer

I got a tip (from someone high up in Warrior) that they are looking to get us to play Rovers who are another warrior team.

kfallon

mike65 wrote: »

Ah no thanks. Crap game, worst one of the entire season. Play Preston NE twice - home and away would be better.

Why would it be better?

Bizarre statement!

Turtyturd

kfallon wrote: »

Why would it be better?

Bizarre statement!

Better level of opposition. :pac:

Utopia Parkway

gafferino wrote: »

Excellent @Secondcaptains podcast yesterday discussing Rodgers and the match.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/second-captains

Both Early and John Brewin (Utd fan I think) were both in the "Rodgers is a spoofer" camp for ages. Ken seems to be coming around anyway. Get the sense that Brewin still thinks he's on a lucky run.

LuckyLloyd

500 ways to be wrong:

=============================

LuckyLloyd wrote:

They were both responsible. But that was 100% of Comolli's job. It was a portion of Kenny's job, and on the pitch he got us to two Cup finals. So he should never have been replaced to bring in chumps like Martinez or Rodgers.

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Kenny got us going nicely the second half of 2010 / 11, and he got us to two Cup Finals last year. That's the big problem here - he had done more than enough to earn more time. It's all relative. If you're throwing him aside, it just CAN'T be for deadbeats like this. It can't!!

LuckyLloyd wrote:

He'd also be a shocking appointment by the way.

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Oooh if you think I'm mad now, wait till you get a load of me if Rodgers gets full control.

LuckyLloyd wrote:

I'm mad as hell and I amn't going to take it anymore.

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Awful

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Rodgers IS Hodgson 2.0, i.e. a downgrade on his predecessor

LuckyLloyd wrote:

I have to baby step you through this:

Two years ago Hodgson was inferior to Benitez
Today Rodgers is inferior to Dalglish

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Gutless really. Kenny was controversial, so they've brought in a tidy younger guy who the media like. He probably won't rock the boat too much or make too many demands either.

We are now officially a mid table club for the forseeable future.

LuckyLloyd wrote:

If Kenny Dalglish wasn't deserving of support during a season in which he led us to two finals, why does this no mark deserve it?

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Give over! No decent players are coming to Liverpool to play for Brendan Rodgers or, if they are decent, you don't know that yet.

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Ah feck it, we'll ride him out on a rail like we did Hodgson.

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Problem is, after Rodgers has been sacked with another season wasted - he'll be all that closer to on the money.

LuckyLloyd wrote:

No. Sacking Kenny Dalglish to replace him with Brendan ****ing Rodgers is an absolute disgrace of the highest order, and will forever sully my relationship with the club.

That it came exactly two years after we sacked Rafael Benitez to replace him with Roy ****ing Lodgson just compounds the hurt.

We deserve no success, try not to forget that.

LuckyLloyd wrote:

But that's the thing. You are all sheep, doomed to repeat the same pattern from here on in. New manager comes in, is hailed as promising, talk of optimism / support / patience. Then he hits a rough patch, and you turn on him and wait for him to be gone so that you repeat from the start afresh. That is what the sacking of Rafa and Kenny has left us.

LuckyLloyd wrote:

No, he's the latest flavour of the month manager with less than 200 games managed - the comfortable majority of which were outside top flight football.

LuckyLloyd wrote:

He has 151 games under his belt as a senior manager, and only 38 of them are in the top flight. The sample size is tiny here. All that happened with Coyle / Jewell / Brown is that they regressed towards their mean as the sample size increased.

LuckyLloyd wrote:

I'm deadly serious. Rodgers has shown nothing so far in management to indicate he is superior to Kenny Dalglish.

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Yeah, a former Premier League winning manager has "no clue" how to manage in the Premier League.

Sure, the block of form Dalglish put together at the end of 2010 / 11 was superior to anything Rodgers has done at the top level for a recent comparison.

Drink up some more kool aid though, I hear it's nice and tangy and laced with unfounded optimism.

LuckyLloyd wrote:

I'm deadset against Rodgers because he has done nothing that inidicates he is worthy to manage one of the biggest clubs in world football

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Tell you what, I'll give Rodgers as much support as you afforded Kenny his last few months, deal?

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Barring a late turnaround he should be sacked imo

LuckyLloyd wrote:

I'm DEAD serious. This is Liverpool, it's the 14th of February and all competitive interest is about to be over

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Oh yeah?

2012 - FA Cup Final, May
2011 - February, Hodgson fired
2010 - EL Semi Final, CL chase, May
2009 - League Title chase, May
2008 - CL Semi, May
2007 - CL Final, last game of season
2006 - FA Cup Final, May
2005 - CL Final, last game of season
2004 - CL secured in April, Houllier sacked
2003 - CL secured in April I guess
2002 - Late April it all unravelled
2001 - UEFA Cup Final, May
2000 - CL chase to last league game, May
1999 - CL chase dead in March, possibly this season is in line with your statement
1998 - March I think, Evans gone
1997 - Cup Winners Cup Semi, league chase through April
1996 - FA Cup Final, May
1995 - April I guess, could be argued
1994 - FA Cup 3rd Round, January, Sounness gone

So, no - this season is in noway acceptable sir

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Luis Suarez has kept him in the job. We're not better than this time last year; probably not better than last season overall; and will have to live without our best player from next season on.

LuckyLloyd wrote:

I'd wish we'd cut our losses now, but we'll have more bull**** and nonsense to wade through before he gets the opportunity to slide down the other side of the mountain that will be the rest of his career.

LuckyLloyd wrote:

It's not a big surprise - we aren't great, few players unavailable and the squad is a touch unbalanced. There'll be plenty more days like this ahead this season, don't sweat it. Still 10 points from 5 games so decent enough start. You'd have expected a defeat to Utd and a win today. The point at Swansea is a bonus really. We'll start resuming normal course results wise soon enough.

LuckyLloyd wrote:

I do feel a little sympathy for those who had their expectations raised by the first couple of results. We'll probably match last season's total at the end, so there's nothing to be too put out about.

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Also, I think ye should all go easy criticisng BR for that loss. Today's game was lost during June, July and August. I think the weaknesses and inbalance of the squad is plain to see. Gerrard and Lucas not great, but who else is there to play? Coutinho a big loss, but who else is worth starting in behind the front three if he's not around?

Suarez coming back will paper over a lot of cracks, just like last year. Let's hope he maintains his professionalism.

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Why get mad? There's nothing on the table this year. We're not gonna come top four and not going to be relegated. You have to detach yourself just a little because otherwise you'll be feeling like this a fair few times before May.

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Anything that isn't blind positivity when something above average happens (good result, make a signing); or outrage when something negative happens (bad result, miss a signing) and you're "patronising".

I'm just letting you all know what the tick tock is - we've had a start we should all be delighted with and today didn't really change anything with respect to likely outcomes for the season ahead.

=============================



I was wrong quite obviously. And believe me when I say that I am utterly delighted for that to be the case.

About this time in 2009 I really started to believe we were going to hit the highest peaks. We were nearly there but instead of going after it that summer we threaded water and the following year the weight of boardroom bull**** and British media schadenfreude contributed to a disappointing season. Better owners would have stood pat on the basis of the majority of a six year reign. Instead the dickheads we had took their opportunity to pounce and remove a troublesome and forthright manager. Then there was the Hodgson fiasco and then there was the too soon (imo) sacking of Dalglish. I was so, so angry in the summer of 2012 and genuinely worried for the future of the club. I had a strong opinion and I expressed it in trademark style as per the above lolfest.

Judge me as you see fit, that it your right. But don't confuse an inability to predict the future allied to a strength of expression with a lack of love for the club. This season has been utterly magical and I'm starting to think maybe, just maybe we'll get to see Gerrard lift the big one after all these years.

Rodgers is winning me over week in, week out. And once I'm won over I'll argue his case just as strongly as I derided him. It's a lot more fun making that argument, believe me.

Knex*

Fair play, Lloyd.

BenEadir

Knex. wrote: »

Fair play, Lloyd.

+ 1,000 ^^^^

DrumSteve

Well played Lloyd.

While I havent really agreed with a lot of what you posted, I respect you've the clubs best interests at heart.

jcsoulinger

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

500 ways to be wrong:

=============================
































































=============================



I was wrong quite obviously. And believe me when I say that I am utterly delighted for that to be the case.

About this time in 2009 I really started to believe we were going to hit the highest peaks. We were nearly there but instead of going after it that summer we threaded water and the following year the weight of boardroom bull**** and British media schadenfreude contributed to a disappointing season. Better owners would have stood pat on the basis of the majority of a six year reign. Instead the dickheads we had took their opportunity to pounce and remove a troublesome and forthright manager. Then there was the Hodgson fiasco and then there was the too soon (imo) sacking of Dalglish. I was so, so angry in the summer of 2012 and genuinely worried for the future of the club. I had a strong opinion and I expressed it in trademark style as per the above lolfest.

Judge me as you see fit, that it your right. But don't confuse an inability to predict the future allied to a strength of expression with a lack of love for the club. This season has been utterly magical and I'm starting to think maybe, just maybe we'll get to see Gerrard lift the big one after all these years.

Rodgers is winning me over week in, week out. And once I'm won over I'll argue his case just as strongly as I derided him. It's a lot more fun making that argument, believe me.

You should have given him the benefit of the doubt that any new Liverpool manager deserves from the start. The fact you now have a change of heart means very little imo.

rob316

Fair play a good man will admit when he was wrong.
You really should have given him the benefit of the doubt though the minimum any other manager should get aswell.
I disagreed with alot you have said but its good you support rodgers now.

smileyj1987

jcsoulinger wrote: »

You should have given him the benefit of the doubt that any new Liverpool manager deserves from the start. The fact you now have a change of heart means very little imo.

Benefit of the doubt , lloyds argument to getting BR was a solid one . I can honestly say I wasn't that happy when I heard Kenny was being replaced by BR . At Christmas time last year I defended him but deep down I had a feeling he might / could be out of his depth at LFC . So in fairness to Lloyd he was just being vocal about this feeling of BR not being good enough .
I have slaughtered 3 ex LFC players in the thread on LFC here . Andy Carroll , Joe Cole and Stewart downing . I was right to slaughter them because they weren't good enough some people defended them .
At least Lloyd had the decency to post and make himself look a bit of a fool to show he was wrong .

Pilsbury Doughboy

Fair play Lloyd, I hated how you went about it, but at least you can admit you were way way wrong, hopefully a few others might follow your lead and own up too, I'm sure there are still a few who've just stopped posting here rather than admit they were wrong.