Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14 Mod warning post#7005

5starpool

Johnson has done well since he came back into the team. I'd like to see him stay past this season, but obviously it would be based on a somewhat reduced, or restructured pay deal. We'll hopefully have at least 50 games next season, so will need experienced people to augment the youth we have.

Dickerty

5starpool wrote: »

Johnson has done well since he came back into the team. I'd like to see him stay past this season, but obviously it would be based on a somewhat reduced, or restructured pay deal. We'll hopefully have at least 50 games next season, so will need experienced people to augment the youth we have.

I certainly wouldn't cast him off that quickly. Let him and Wisdom complete for the starts, and both he and Flanno can cover both sides. So we only need a new starting LB to replaced the forever crocked Enrique.

Luke Shaw. Just do it. Chelsea don't need him, City don't need him, and why would he go to United now? We can guarantee him a starting place in a team on the rise...

googled eyes

Dickerty wrote: »

Luke Shaw.

Will end up and Chelsea and go out on loan...

Fizman

Not sure if posted, but Rodgers on Gerrards yellow situation:

http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1762588/liverpool-brendan-rodgers-steven-gerrard-smart-enough-avoid-ban?cc=5739

Essentially saying that he'll play and just have to be a bit more careful.

K-9

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Remarkable how so many people were quick to turn on GlenJo. All I can say is that I am glad he is back to 100% fitness, because he is/has been one of the top right backs in the league for quite some time now.

Criticising isn't turning on a player though. He'd a bad spell of form for a few months and got treated the same as any other player.

Dont be at yourself

We played some of our best football without Gerrard in the team in the run-up to Christmas, so I'm not worried at all. Lucas will be hungry to come in and do a job, and it could also give us the opportunity to get Coutinho and Sterling on the pitch together.

gafferino

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

We played some of our best football without Gerrard in the team in the run-up to Christmas, so I'm not worried at all. Lucas will be hungry to come in and do a job, and it could also give us the opportunity to get Coutinho and Sterling on the pitch together.

My only worry would be Lucas lack of match time/sharpness/fitness.

LuckyLloyd

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

61 pts got 4th that year :eek: and 60 for us the year before

What are people's thoughts on that by the way?

Data:

1999 Winners 67pts
2000 QF(2) 67pts
2001 SF(1) 68pts
2002 SF(1) 71pts
2003 QF(1) 67pts
2004 SF(1) 60pts
2005 Winners 61pts
2006 RU 67pts
2007 RU 68pts
2008 Winners+RU 76pts
2009 SF(3)+RU 72pts
2010 QF(2) 70pts
2011 RU 68pts
2012 Winners 69pts
2013 2nd Round 73pts

What jumps out for me is that the average is slightly higher than people credit it at 68.26, and if you take out the 2004 and 2005 as outliers it rises to 69.46.

Other things:

if you take the seven best seasons in terms of EPL competitiveness in Europe (2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012) the average across for 4th place is 68.71
if you take the worst eight from the above that average drops to 67.88

This indicates to me that the league is tougher when English teams are stronger in the CL - something that is fairly intuitive but was sullied by last year's 73pts for 4th while English clubs had their worst showing in the competition since the early nineties. Indeed, the highest points total for 4th was in 2008 during a season where three English clubs reached the semis and two played the final.

5starpool

gafferino wrote: »

My only worry would be Lucas lack of match time/sharpness/fitness.

I think he'll start tomorrow night instead of Allen, with Lucas more advanced than previous appearances and Gerrard the deepest midfielder still.

djPSB

K-9 wrote: »

Criticising isn't turning on a player though. He'd a bad spell of form for a few months and got treated the same as any other player.

He was terrible and I think the big problem was that he didn't look interested.

The criticism was justified. His lack of interest became even more apparent when the likes of Flanagan came into the team. Flanagan, although an inferior player to Johnson, gives 100% everytime he gets the shirt.

djPSB

Dickerty wrote: »

Isn't it great that THIS is our major concern? Not talking about all the players we need to replace, or another season without CL qualification, or blaming the Yanks for not backing yet another manager?

Even the debacle of Kony and Salah has been forgotten. Rodgers said it would galvanise the squad, and many scoffed at that. But now, it looks like that's EXACTLY what happened...

And all this with 5 bright young players out on loan all season (Suso, Borini, Robinson, Wisdom, Ilori partially) and 2 other squad players (Coady & Assaidi) and having offloaded useful squad players in Downing, Shelvey and Spearing, and Carra retired!

What a season...

Missing Gerrard for two games is manageable. However, should another key player get injured or pick up a suspension during the same period, then we're goosed.

Connavar

djPSB wrote: »

He was terrible and I think the big problem was that he didn't look interested.

The criticism was justified. His lack of interest became even more apparent when the likes of Flanagan came into the team. Flanagan, although an inferior player to Johnson, gives 100% everytime he gets the shirt.

Thats the big question though. Was it really a lack of interest or was he simply injured and couldn't push himself like that(which was the case according to rodgers)?
No way of knowing for sure but so far it looks like his spell out of the team has done the trick

Grayditch

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Remarkable how so many people were quick to turn on GlenJo.

Love these posts.

klose

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Remarkable how so many people were quick to turn on GlenJo. All I can say is that I am glad he is back to 100% fitness, because he is/has been one of the top right backs in the league for quite some time now.

Ah lets call a spade a spade here, he was sh!te for over a year, 3 good games since his return doesn't negate that. Hopefully his form stays the same for the run in, who knows maybe the lack of a winger in front of him suits him in some strange way.? It will be interesting to see if he does stay on.

Dickerty

googled eyes wrote: »

Will end up and Chelsea and go out on loan...

I hope he has his head screwed on and knows that the move he makes could decide his career. Johnson wento to Chelsea too young, got caught up in the mass of players, and had to drop down to rebuild his game before we picked him up. He could go the same way. If it can happen to Ashley Cole...

Come to Liverpool and you WILL be a starting player in a young, dynamic team, competing on multiple fronts. A team that rewards performance, not attendance. And that puts it's faith in youth - U21s regularly on the bench, Sterling, Coutinho and Flanagan regular starters, and multiple others on the fringes.

Just in case you are reading boards, Luke...

slingerz

5starpool wrote: »

I think he'll start tomorrow night instead of Allen, with Lucas more advanced than previous appearances and Gerrard the deepest midfielder still.

I reckon it'll be

MIG
GJ Skittels Sakho Flanno
Stevie Hendo
Coutinho
Studge Suarez sterling

Connavar

slingerz wrote: »

I reckon it'll be

MIG
GJ Skittels Sakho Flanno
Stevie Hendo
Coutinho
Studge Suarez sterling

I wouldn't be suprised to see lucas get a bit of game time tomorrow too, to prep for the possibility of missing gerrard

K-9

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What are people's thoughts on that by the way?

Data:

1999 Winners 67pts
2000 QF(2) 67pts
2001 SF(1) 68pts
2002 SF(1) 71pts
2003 QF(1) 67pts
2004 SF(1) 60pts
2005 Winners 61pts
2006 RU 67pts
2007 RU 68pts
2008 Winners+RU 76pts
2009 SF(3)+RU 72pts
2010 QF(2) 70pts
2011 RU 68pts
2012 Winners 69pts
2013 2nd Round 73pts
What jumps out for me is that the average is slightly higher than people credit it at 68.26, and if you take out the 2004 and 2005 as outliers it rises to 69.46.

Other things:

if you take the seven best seasons in terms of EPL competitiveness in Europe (2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012) the average across for 4th place is 68.71
if you take the worst eight from the above that average drops to 67.88

This indicates to me that the league is tougher when English teams are stronger in the CL - something that is fairly intuitive but was sullied by last year's 73pts for 4th while English clubs had their worst showing in the competition since the early nineties. Indeed, the highest points total for 4th was in 2008 during a season where three English clubs reached the semis and two played the final.

I'd say the gap between 4th and 5th probably plays just as big a part. In 2008 there was a big gap there and probably will be this year too, I'd expect a return to the norm next season and a much closer race.

Your data seems a good measure of an average for teams in CL, and what's expected in the league to qualify again. It would ignore teams that didn't qualify the next season, Leeds, Spurs and ourselves, but I suppose there isn't much point including them, it's important to bear in mind how much it takes out of a team though.

Wonder how EC effects league performance. I can think of City qualifying for the CL and having EL football but their resources probably proves the exception to the rule. Harry never took it seriously at Spurs. I'd say the stats would show it's more a hindrance than a help for qualification for CL.

5live

I suppose i had better nail my colours to the mast on our title chances..

whatawaster

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What are people's thoughts on that by the way?

Data:

1999 Winners 67pts
2000 QF(2) 67pts
2001 SF(1) 68pts
2002 SF(1) 71pts
2003 QF(1) 67pts
2004 SF(1) 60pts
2005 Winners 61pts
2006 RU 67pts
2007 RU 68pts
2008 Winners+RU 76pts
2009 SF(3)+RU 72pts
2010 QF(2) 70pts
2011 RU 68pts
2012 Winners 69pts
2013 2nd Round 73pts

What jumps out for me is that the average is slightly higher than people credit it at 68.26, and if you take out the 2004 and 2005 as outliers it rises to 69.46.

Other things:

if you take the seven best seasons in terms of EPL competitiveness in Europe (2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012) the average across for 4th place is 68.71
if you take the worst eight from the above that average drops to 67.88

This indicates to me that the league is tougher when English teams are stronger in the CL - something that is fairly intuitive but was sullied by last year's 73pts for 4th while English clubs had their worst showing in the competition since the early nineties. Indeed, the highest points total for 4th was in 2008 during a season where three English clubs reached the semis and two played the final.

Surely the average for 5th (ie: the standard required to get 4th) is the better measure.
In a lot of those seasons there were 4 good teams (United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool). City were nowhere and Spurs and Everton only occasionally rose to the challenge

klose

@JimmyRiceWriter: If Man City drop points v Man Utd tonight the title is in Liverpool's hands - win their remaining games and they're champions.

Come on united!!!

Mickalus

klose wrote: »

@JimmyRiceWriter: If Man City drop points v Man Utd tonight the title is in Liverpool's hands - win their remaining games and they're champions.

Come on united!!!

He makes it sound so easy!! if only it were so.

K-9

whatawaster wrote: »

Surely the average for 5th (ie: the standard required to get 4th) is the better measure.
In a lot of those seasons there were 4 good teams (United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool). City were nowhere and Spurs and Everton only occasionally rose to the challenge

Surprisingly enough 07/08 and 08/09 seem the only years there wasn't competition for 4th, the years England dominated the CL. The 5 or 6 seasons before that had a couple of teams going for it.

hefferboi

I don't know what I want anymore!

K-9

Mickalus wrote: »

He makes it sound so easy!! if only it were so.

Would be interesting to see how those statistician guys would rate our chances then and if we win tomorrow. Arsenal were 7/8% before Chelsea hammered them, we were 18/19% before Cardiff.

Ganymede Glow

Discussion on RAWK.

You're non Steven Gerrard penalty taker?

Agueroooo

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What are people's thoughts on that by the way?

Data:

1999 Winners 67pts
2000 QF(2) 67pts
2001 SF(1) 68pts
2002 SF(1) 71pts
2003 QF(1) 67pts
2004 SF(1) 60pts
2005 Winners 61pts
2006 RU 67pts
2007 RU 68pts
2008 Winners+RU 76pts
2009 SF(3)+RU 72pts
2010 QF(2) 70pts
2011 RU 68pts
2012 Winners 69pts
2013 2nd Round 73pts
What jumps out for me is that the average is slightly higher than people credit it at 68.26, and if you take out the 2004 and 2005 as outliers it rises to 69.46.

Other things:

if you take the seven best seasons in terms of EPL competitiveness in Europe (2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012) the average across for 4th place is 68.71
if you take the worst eight from the above that average drops to 67.88

This indicates to me that the league is tougher when English teams are stronger in the CL - something that is fairly intuitive but was sullied by last year's 73pts for 4th while English clubs had their worst showing in the competition since the early nineties. Indeed, the highest points total for 4th was in 2008 during a season where three English clubs reached the semis and two played the final.

76pts will give a 98.1% chance of 4th

86 for me is the title winning number depending on how City fair against those around them.

5starpool

Nice quotes from Rodgers in a Guardian article. I'm guessing they came from the pre match presser for the Sunderland game.

Rodgers skilfully avoided stating his support for United but said: "We're training at Anfield in the evening so I will settle down and watch it after that. I'm really looking forward to it. Whatever the result that's best for you, then you always root for that don't you? But I am more concerned with how we do on Wednesday to be honest."

Rodgers believes the three goals conceded at Cardiff demonstrated Liverpool are not the finished article this season but is adamant the club are on course to end an arduous wait for a 19th league championship. "We haven't won it for a long time and it may or may not be this year but there is no doubt we are on the right road to winning a title here," he said.

"We are nowhere near the finished article but while we are learning and improving we will hopefully continue to pick up the points.

"We are enjoying the moment and the football. We still have a hell of a way to go to be near where I want us to be but we are certainly making strides and are on the right path. It is by no means the finished article but we are evolving and I take great pride in that.

"It is about consistency and doing it year after year. I feel there is still quite a lot of improvements to make. We have been asked questions in games and have come through and I am sure we will be asked many more questions."

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/24/brendan-rodgers-steven-gerrard-implications-of-booking

Connavar

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

Discussion on RAWK.

You're non Steven Gerrard penalty taker?

Sturridge for me atm. His finishing at least appears the calmest from play

Mickalus

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

Discussion on RAWK.

You're non Steven Gerrard penalty taker?

Suarez.
Does exceptionally well with free kicks. More goals for him right now the better.

5starpool

Suarez took penalties for Ajax and does for Uruguay I think?

8-10

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

Discussion on RAWK.

You're non Steven Gerrard penalty taker?

Suarez, easy. He's an excellent penalty taker

gafferino

5starpool wrote: »

Suarez took penalties for Ajax and does for Uruguay I think?

Yeah was gonna post that. You need a cool head to take penos.

Sturridge - not for me. Poor peno V Everton....all heart and no head in that peno.

Mickalus

K-9 wrote: »

Would be interesting to see how those statistician guys would rate our chances then and if we win tomorrow. Arsenal were 7/8% before Chelsea hammered them, we were 18/19% before Cardiff.

Interesting indeed, Where did you see those stats before?

8-10

5starpool wrote: »

Suarez took penalties for Ajax and does for Uruguay I think?

Not sure about Uruguay but he's definitely taken a lot for Ajax.

Ganymede Glow

Seen Suarez take a penalty in a quarter final shoot out against Argentina in the Copa America. Very nicely slotted it away, however I've also seen him fluff a penalty for us against Sunderland last season

Speak Now

It's been a couple of years since Suarez took one for us, missed 2 from 2.

Kunkka

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

Seen Suarez take a penalty in a quarter final shoot out against Argentina in the Copa America. Very nicely slotted it away, however I've also seen him fluff a penalty for us against Sunderland last season

I was at that game

Speak Now

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

Seen Suarez take a penalty in a quarter final shoot out against Argentina in the Copa America. Very nicely slotted it away, however I've also seen him fluff a penalty for us against Sunderland last season

August 2011 believe it or not.

Suarez without question.

After that Skrtel as he's fairly prolific atm

Ganymede Glow

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

August 2011 believe it or not.

Correct

He actually missed another against Brighton too which I forgot

slingerz

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

Discussion on RAWK.

You're non Steven Gerrard penalty taker?

Suarez, Sturridge, Agger for me

K-9

Mickalus wrote: »

Interesting indeed, Where did you see those stats before?

Twitter link, don't have access to it here. One of the posters here had a link as well.

opr

Paper in Spain claiming we're looking at a deal which would see Suso and €15m go to Sevilla in exchange for Rakitic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp3N5laiI3w

Opr

Agueroooo

"@hunter_troll: #LFC are currently outlining a proposal which would see Suso and €15m go to Sevilla in exchange for Rakitic. [Sport]"

discuss...

googled eyes

Seen this a couple of times on twitter today.


Suso+€15m = Rakitic

No links though

Knex*

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

Discussion on RAWK.

You're non Steven Gerrard penalty taker?

Suarez or Agger.

After that, I really don't know. Perhaps Coutinho.

Vicxas

I don't know enough about the chap to make an informed decision. And I've fallen foul of Youtube videos before

googled eyes

We've had 11 penos this season !

I'd be disappointed to see Suso go anywhere without giving him a chance to see what he can do for us.