Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14 Mod warning post#7005

Paulegend

just watching the highlights again and just spotted another one. how come migs didnt come out for teh cross that led to the peno. in those highlights its at around 8.50 the ball was crossed again on the 6 yard box. he should have came for it. regardless of whether the ball should have been defended better or not he shouldnt be giving the opposition a chance to get a shot on target. if he comes out and gets touched its a free out. if he comes out he has the reach advantage. no reason for him not to.

maybe someone with better knowledge than me could enlighten me but i would have thought that was basic defending.

its all well and good blaming defenders like sakho for some of his passing at times or agger for being out of position or skrtel for holding onto his men or even toure for his quick and sometimes mi**** clearances but if they dont have confidence in their keeper its going to make them play bad. toure was a rock for us at the start of the season. signing of the summer we called him. but was that because it was new club syndrome or was it because he had confidence in his keeper?

im not saying that we should get rid of migs. i think he can still be a top player for us. i just think that he needs to step it up or else Reina wont be going anywhere in the summer

djPSB

hefferboi wrote: »

I want a back four next year of:

Coleman Benatia Sakho Shaw


You may call it unrealistic, but as English champions I think we'll be favorites to land whoever the fcuk we want.

I can never understand how people think we have a chance of signing Coleman. You do know he plays for Everton?

Dickerty

Paulegend wrote: »

just watching the highlights again and just spotted another one. how come migs didnt come out for teh cross that led to the peno. in those highlights its at around 8.50 the ball was crossed again on the 6 yard box. he should have came for it. regardless of whether the ball should have been defended better or not he shouldnt be giving the opposition a chance to get a shot on target. if he comes out and gets touched its a free out. if he comes out he has the reach advantage. no reason for him not to.

No reason other than there were 2 defenders against 1 striker, so rather than clear them all out, and risk injury (or the ball arriving at a Swansea foot and him being on the deck), he trusts his defenders to do their job??

Dickerty

djPSB wrote: »

I can never understand how people think we have a chance of signing Coleman. You do know he plays for Everton?

+1 - if they were willing to cash in, it would be to even United ahead of us. It brings a ton of baggage with the player too, his life would be made hell around town...

gafferino

mike65 wrote: »

This is why Gerrard as the sole DM makes no sense unless kamikaze football is the way to win a league - which it isn't. Liverpool need to get a solid defensive screen erected in front of the central defenders. Sure it will mean less sparky action but would anyone really complain at a bunch of 2-0 wins with 60% possession and control of the middle?

Chris Bascombe catches the issue from his match report

An absolute peach of a line from that match report that sums it up perfectly......

'There was caviar upfront, cabbage at the back'.

Paulegend

NukaCola wrote: »

:pac:

Mignolet is doing a fine job. Every player makes mistakes. He has cost us in games but he's not a liability and we dont need a new keeper like you suggested. Put any keeper in front of our CB's and you would see them struggle.

In summary, young player first season, doing well, had a poor spell but solid for the most part.

i do like him. hell last season i was kinda hoping we would go for him if the ter stegen move didnt pan out. turned out we didnt even go for him. ah well.

i do think he will come good but id question whether its the keeper or the defence that is the problem.

on paper our defence is one of the best.

Sakho is a monster. an abundance of strength. not too slow for a center back. can be sloppy with his passing but is generally good on the ball and he is like a classic center back the way he just runs straight through his opponent. clattering them taking them down and hurting them a little but making sure to get the ball first. great center back for the future.

Toure has experience. was one of the invincible's (cant believe i said that..... vomit). his positioning seems to be his strongest asset. was our best player bar sturridge in the opening games.

Agger is our ball player. loves to take responsibility with the ball at the back. composure is probably his best asset. calms down play in defence and gives the confidence that a sloppy pass wont be made at the back.

Skrtel. he has his on years and his off years. when he is out of form he looks brutal but when he is in form he is amazing. his bald head and neo nazi look is probably his best asset. he is a bit of a rogue in defence but he knows what he can get away with and takes every advantage he can get to defend for his life. bar the last couple of weeks sktrel has been class this season. good for cross ins ironically and good at covering for others in defence when they go out of position.

i know not everyone will agree with everything there but by in large that is pretty close to accurate. so our defence on paper is actually pretty good. i doubt you could find a team in the league that can boast having 4 better center backs than that. so is it our defence???

Paulegend

Dickerty wrote: »

No reason other than there were 2 defenders against 1 striker, so rather than clear them all out, and risk injury (or the ball arriving at a Swansea foot and him being on the deck), he trusts his defenders to do their job??

but would other top keepers think that way?

sure the denders might do their job and defend. but its two defenders that are average height defenders. 6ft+ against a striker who looks about the same give or take. if the denders make the clearance thats great but if they dont then migs has an amazing shot to save as its from 6 yards out. chances are he wont get it. not anything against him it would just be a difficult one to save if headed correctly.

but if migs who is actually a little taller came for it he would have the reach advantage on top of his couple of inches height advantage. he woiuld be odds on to get the ball. he would have to plow through his defence but would Schmeichel have done it?? Seaman ?? Grobbelaar?? course they would have

djPSB

Dickerty wrote: »

+1 - if they were willing to cash in, it would be to even United ahead of us. It brings a ton of baggage with the player too, his life would be made hell around town...

And he seems like the kind of lad that wouldn't want to transfer to their rivals.

Chucky the tree

Paulegend wrote: »

i do like him. hell last season i was kinda hoping we would go for him if the ter stegen move didnt pan out. turned out we didnt even go for him. ah well.

i do think he will come good but id question whether its the keeper or the defence that is the problem.

on paper our defence is one of the best.

Sakho is a monster. an abundance of strength. not too slow for a center back. can be sloppy with his passing but is generally good on the ball and he is like a classic center back the way he just runs straight through his opponent. clattering them taking them down and hurting them a little but making sure to get the ball first. great center back for the future.

Toure has experience. was one of the invincible's (cant believe i said that..... vomit). his positioning seems to be his strongest asset. was our best player bar sturridge in the opening games.

Agger is our ball player. loves to take responsibility with the ball at the back. composure is probably his best asset. calms down play in defence and gives the confidence that a sloppy pass wont be made at the back.

Skrtel. he has his on years and his off years. when he is out of form he looks brutal but when he is in form he is amazing. his bald head and neo nazi look is probably his best asset. he is a bit of a rogue in defence but he knows what he can get away with and takes every advantage he can get to defend for his life. bar the last couple of weeks sktrel has been class this season. good for cross ins ironically and good at covering for others in defence when they go out of position.

i know not everyone will agree with everything there but by in large that is pretty close to accurate. so our defence on paper is actually pretty good. i doubt you could find a team in the league that can boast having 4 better center backs than that. so is it our defence???

Well if you'd watch them, then yea I think pretty much everyone(except yourself and then maybe Agger, Skrtel, Toure and Sakho) would blame the defense and not the keeper.

Paulegend

djPSB wrote: »

And he seems like the kind of lad that wouldn't want to transfer to their rivals.

why though?? he isnt an everton fan or anything. he hasnt come through their youth system. he has been there for 5 years but im sure if an offer came along that suited him and everton he would go for it.

12 yaesr since our last stanley park crossing with abel xavier. no reason we cant do it with another right back

Slattsy

I'd love to see us make a bid to sign Luke Shaw in the summer, i think he's well on his way being top class, and probably be an engerlund regular for the next 10 years.
Chelsea apparently stalking him too though.

Paulegend

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Well if you'd watch them, then yea I think pretty much everyone(except yourself and then maybe Agger, Skrtel, Toure and Sakho) would blame the defense and not the keeper.

name one

is it arsenal??

vermalean kosh mert................... then who??

chelsea

terry cahill luis and................

city

kompany nastasic lescott?????


name one team that actually has 4 better defenders than us. to be honest the above have maybe 2 top defenders and a decent at best backup.

but that is as i said on paper.

agger skrtel toure and sakho on paper are miles above who ive named

on paper. but football isnt played on paper.

so its either our coaching or lack of confidence in migs

Paulegend

Slattsy wrote: »

I'd love to see us make a bid to sign Luke Shaw in the summer, i think he's well on his way being top class, and probably be an engerlund regular for the next 10 years.
Chelsea apparently stalking him too though.

aparantely supports chelsea too. would be a great signing but i dont think it will happen. id just like us to try at least. put a bit of effort into making us a better team. we should try to get any non world cup players in as early as possible. end of may even if we can

djPSB

Paulegend wrote: »

why though?? he isnt an everton fan or anything. he hasnt come through their youth system. he has been there for 5 years but im sure if an offer came along that suited him and everton he would go for it.

12 yaesr since our last stanley park crossing with abel xavier. no reason we cant do it with another right back

Everton finished 15th when Xavier signed for Liverpool.

Liverpool finished 2nd.

Liverpool and Everton would have been rivals geographically but not like they are today in that both clubs are vying for CL football.

Coleman hasn't a hope of joining Liverpool imo.

Chucky the tree

Paulegend wrote: »

name one

is it arsenal??

vermalean kosh mert................... then who??

chelsea

terry cahill luis and................

city

kompany nastasic lescott?????


name one team that actually has 4 better defenders than us. to be honest the above have maybe 2 top defenders and a decent at best backup.

but that is as i said on paper.

agger skrtel toure and sakho on paper are miles above who ive named

on paper. but football isnt played on paper.

so its either our coaching or lack of confidence in migs

I've bolded the correct part. In saying that, your analysis is pretty miles off.

Toure - No idea what relevance him being part of the invincibles over 10 years ago has.

Agger - Agger is our ball player. loves to take responsibility with the ball at the back. composure is probably his best asset. calms down play in defence and gives the confidence that a sloppy pass wont be made at the back.


Love the last line, you missed the game yesterday?

Skrtel - knows what he can get away with - ugh, if only that were true yesterday as well.

Slattsy

Paulegend wrote: »

aparantely supports chelsea too. would be a great signing but i dont think it will happen. id just like us to try at least. put a bit of effort into making us a better team. we should try to get any non world cup players in as early as possible. end of may even if we can

I'd take Lallana aswell mind you.

Francie Barrett

The whole "our defence is rubbish" argument and that when Sakho is back everything will be just peachy view that seems to be commonly held here is just lazy.

No matter who we have in defence, with our current system, we are bound to leak goals because you effectively have only one midfielder screening the entire back 4 (very often, it's only a back 2 as our full backs are so far up the pitch).

Dickerty

Francie Barrett wrote: »

The whole "our defence is rubbish" argument and that when Sakho is back everything will be just peachy view that seems to be commonly held here is just lazy.

No matter who we have in defence, with our current system, we are bound to leak goals because you effectively have only one midfielder screening the entire back 4 (very often, it's only a back 2 as our full backs are so far up the pitch).

Will be very interesting to see what his starting XI is when Lucas is back, with Allen showing so well at the moment. Stevie was exposed yesterday, but he's new to the position and is getting very little help from in front.

Sturridge, Suarez, Sterling, Couts and Hendo are all certain starters. So that leaves 1 spot for Lucas, Stevie and Allen. I think it will be Stevie at home in the big games, but will we have to sacrifice either Sterling or Couts for Lucas in the games v City and Chelsea??

Slattsy

Francie Barrett wrote: »

The whole "our defence is rubbish" argument and that when Sakho is back everything will be just peachy view that seems to be commonly held here is just lazy.

No matter who we have in defence, with our current system, we are bound to leak goals because you effectively have only one midfielder screening the entire back 4 (very often, it's only a back 2 as our full backs are so far up the pitch).

I dont see a problem with that Francie.

If you have 2 solid (not top top) centre halves that can defend properly and cut out the stupid mistakes then having only one holding mid is not the issue.

Paulegend

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I've bolded the correct part. In saying that, your analysis is pretty miles off.

Toure - No idea what relevance him being part of the invincibles over 10 years ago has.

Agger - Agger is our ball player. loves to take responsibility with the ball at the back. composure is probably his best asset. calms down play in defence and gives the confidence that a sloppy pass wont be made at the back.


Love the last line, you missed the game yesterday?

Skrtel - knows what he can get away with - ugh, if only that were true yesterday as well.

so my argument is dumb because you cant come up with anything else to add??

skrtel got caught for the first time yesterday but im sure that doesnt discredit your smart remark does it??

toure being our in form player at teh start of the year doesnt discredit you does it??

agger you just quoted what i said and moved on?????

make a point ffs


my point is as the above poster said it doesnt matter who we have in defence because our defence is leaking goals not because of who they are but something else. the above poster thinks its our system (probably gerrard playing dm) but i think it may be our keeper not taking control in the box.

so either make a point or dont. stop pretending to.

the kelt

People are missing the most obvious thing when it comes to a defence. Consistency and familiarity.

Its a given that any defence, no matter how good they are are going to struggle with constant changes which is what we have had to put up with because of injuries, we have been missing Agger our best centre half for a significant period, we have missed Enrique for practically the entire season, Johnson has been injured, Flanagan has been injured, Sakho has been injured etc etc.

The best teams have a defence that they very seldomly change, look at the Utd, they won titles playing the same back 4 each game. A defence partnership and developing that is as important as as cohesive front 2 or 3 and it takes time. Likewise a keeper gets more and more confident with a settled back 4 in front of him.

Its no coincidence that we were rock solid at the start of the season with a series of one nil wins when we have had a settled back, in the first 3 games we only changed one player in our back 4 and that was Skertl for Toure again due to injury.

Back then we were still attacking, we were still playing just one screening midfielder, we were still playing the ball from the back, we were still using the same coaches, still using the same tactics broadly. The only difference is not since then have we had our first choice back 4 available.

If we can avoid more injuries at the back, get our players back and get a settled back 4 then we will be fine. Sometimes people look for too many less obvious answers, its the system, its the coaching, its the players, its the tactics when a lot of times its the most obvious answer such as not having a chance to develop a settled back 4 all season.

hefferboi

djPSB wrote: »

I can never understand how people think we have a chance of signing Coleman. You do know he plays for Everton?

We'll be Premier League Champions, he'll be paying us to come here.

Even if he doesn't come or Brenny thinks he's substandard, we just go for Reus or Vidal for the right back position. Easy!

Chucky the tree

Paulegend wrote: »

so my argument is dumb because you cant come up with anything else to add??

skrtel got caught for the first time yesterday but im sure that doesnt discredit your smart remark does it??

toure being our in form player at teh start of the year doesnt discredit you does it??

agger you just quoted what i said and moved on?????

make a point ffs


my point is as the above poster said it doesnt matter who we have in defence because our defence is leaking goals not because of who they are but something else. the above poster thinks its our system (probably gerrard playing dm) but i think it may be our keeper not taking control in the box.

so either make a point or dont. stop pretending to.

My point is, your analysis is terrible.

Watching the players play will dis-credit them. Who cares if Toure was good ten years ago or at the start of the season? He's made some horrendous errors lately and that's what matter, his current form and performances.


Agger - great that he's supposedly our great ball playing centre back. Just a shame he's weak as a kitten and gets bullied far to easily. Personally I'd rather have a strong centre back than a great ball player.

Skrtel - yea he can be amazing, he can be **** as well.


I've still no idea why you think Mig is at fault. I mean it seems Mig is at fault because Toure was great over 10 years ago, because Agger can pass the ball and Skrtel can sometimes play amazing. As I said, that sounds like a dumb argument to me. Maybe some examples of Mig doing badly and pointing out where he made lots of mistakes would help.

SlickRic

we won't win the title with that defence.

we should have more than enough in attack for top 4 though. in fact, it would be almost embarrasing to let that go now.

that's my boring as shít analysis.

Dont be at yourself

Anything to be said for a Reina - Valdes swap? Not as good a shot-stopper, but seems more suited to our game than Mignolet.

NukaCola

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Anything to be said for a Reina - Valdes swap? Not as good a shot-stopper, but seems more suited to our game than Mignolet.

More suited to the conceding goals part of our game

Paulegend

our play keeps evolving with Rodgers. last season the whole passing controlling football with loads of chances and little end result. this year we have been quicker on the counter and scoring more in fewer chances. we have tried every formation from 442 433 4231 541 352 and so on but i was thinking what will next year look like.

Gerrard is being primer for this defnsive mid playmaker role. i think most feel that he isnt good enough defensively so what is the solution?? Rodgers has bought alot of center backs and no full backs (bar a loanee). he has played 3 at the back before and he seems to like giving 5 players the attacking freedom. so maybe there is something in all that.

maybe we could see something like this

---

migs

---

Ilori----Skrtel---Sakho

---

Gerrard---Lucas
---Henderson---Suarez--Coutinho---Sterling

---

Sturridge

maybe with glen probably on the way out (even though reports say we are willing to offer him what he wants now) and cisokho on loan maybe we will go away from full backs and develope some sort of uber attacking force.

maybe brendan is thinking

---

Gerrard

---

Allen---Sakho---Hendo

---

Lucas----Agger----
Sterling

---

Coutinho

---

Hendo

---

Suarez

---

Sturridge

or else his dream is to just play a rigid 0-0-10 system

---

Migs

---

---

Sterling--Coutinho--Hendo--Suarez--Allen--Borini--Sturridge--Gerrard--Suso--Assaidi

Raif Severance

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Anything to be said for a Reina - Valdes swap? Not as good a shot-stopper, but seems more suited to our game than Mignolet.

You do watch Barca, right?

Because if you do, you'd realize Valdes is a Good Shot-stopper.

This Season, I think he's the Best Keeper in La Liga.

K-9

It probably is a mix of things but many on here have been saying for years that Agger and Skrtel are top, top defenders, I really don't know if thats the case!

NukaCola

Dont rate Toure at all, sure he was grand when needed and done a job and that was what he was brought in for. A starter he certainly is not though.

NukaCola

K-9 wrote: »

It probably is a mix of things but many on here have been saying for years that Agger and Skrtel are top, top defenders, I really don't know if thats the case!

Maybe just top defenders

Agueroooo

SlickRic wrote: »

we won't win the title with that defence.

we should have more than enough in attack for top 4 though. in fact, it would be almost embarrasing to let that go now.

that's my boring as shít analysis.

not boring but I want 3rd spot and think we should set that as a min.

It would also allow us go shopping, and also damping down any Suarez talk as we wont have to wait and play the CL preliminary round.

Paulegend

Chucky the tree wrote: »

My point is, your analysis is terrible.

Watching the players play will dis-credit them. Who cares if Toure was good ten years ago or at the start of the season? He's made some horrendous errors lastly and that's what matter, his current form and performances.


Agger - great that he's supposedly our great ball playing centre back. Just a shame he's weak as a kitten and gets bullied far to easily. Personally I'd rather have a strong centre back than a great ball player.

Skrtel - yea he can be amazing, he can be ****.


I've still no idea why you think Mig is at fault. I mean it seems Mig is at fault because Toure was great over 10 years ago, because Agger can pass the ball and Skrtel can sometimes play amazing. As I said, that sounds like a dumb argument to me. Maybe some examples of Mig doing badly and pointing out where he made lots of mistakes would help.

ive given examples of where i felt migs was at fault


my point is that migs doesnt seem to take control in his own area enough.

the cross in that led to the peno yesterday was along the 6 yard line. he should have come for it. same thing happened against fulham where he never came for a cross on the 6 yard line and when the striker got something on it the second ball again in the 6 yard box was the second fulham goal. again back to yesterday when skrtel was yelling at migs to come for the ball and migs was slow coming for it and almost got himself sent off for bringing the ball out of the box with his hands.


thats 3 huge mistakes. 2 that led to goals in the last 2 games he has played in. im sure i could go back through the games but my point is that he doesnt take that leadership role that he needs to. Reina despite his drop in ability over teh last 2 or 3 years was great at controlling his area. didnt always work but you knew if the ball was going into the box he was coming for it.

migs not so much.

i think that is why our defence is playing poorly. its hard to be confident when you dont trust your keeper.

Demosthenese

All this nonsense about players not playing together this season etc ... these are professional players and should NOT be making individual errors like the ones we've seen i don't care if they are back from injury or not.

Our problem is that we have basically had Skrtel fit for most the season and he has been hot and cold, we do not have a partner to go in beside him that has been a standout candidate despite trying Toure (Who was excellent for the earlier part of the season but how has found his level, he has the jitters too and that is very apparant) Agger (Who now is being watched closer than ever since we have viable competition for him - and he is looking like the defender he always was, poor in the air, easily bullied and lacks the necessary physical mentallity to be a proper ENGLISH PL centre back) and Sahko who has been injured.

Added to the equation we have Glen Johnson who is a shadow of his former self, lets be honest here, Flanno has made him look completely lazt and out of form with his displays which have not been excellent but very consistent. 4 defenders and we have 2 having offdays more often than not, what you expect to happen?

I'll also add, that some pairings simply do NOT work in football, no matter how perfect they seem on paper. I think we all WANT Agger to succeed cos he is comfortable on the ball, but he simply is not cutting it as a TOP defender in the PL. He does not seem to compliment Skrtel. WHY? Who knows why ... anyone that has played football will tell you, sometimes you just seme to be better balanced with certain players as a partnership. We've not had a decent partership since Hypia and Carra, it just worked! United are finding the same problem these days when they cannot find a pair that Gel. Arsenal had the problem for the last 5 years. Sometimes we fancy a certain player cos they look good or do good things ... but its BR's job to find a pairing that work.

I hope that Sahko does become that player where we are saying "Sahko plus one other centre half" as if its a given he is the dominant player.

Some players need to man up (Glen Agger) some players need to keep their concentration for 90 mins and shake off the doubt that seems to dog them (Toure Skrtel).

NukaCola

Paulegend wrote: »

i think that is why our defence is playing poorly. its hard to be confident when you dont trust your keeper.

So when Brad Jones played who was at fault?

Its not as black and white as you are making out. Not coming for a cross when the striker is marked by two CBs is good decision making. Some of the things you are highlighting aren't GKing mistakes.

In reality its a combination of the whole defence, Mignolet is part of it but not as big as you are making out.

Slattsy

Mignolet definately has a problem coming for balls, its quite obvious.
Shot stopping is generally fine and his distrubition is ok, but command of his area is a huge negative.

Demosthenese

Paulegend wrote: »

ive given examples of where i felt migs was at fault


my point is that migs doesnt seem to take control in his own area enough.

the cross in that led to the peno yesterday was along the 6 yard line. he should have come for it. same thing happened against fulham where he never came for a cross on the 6 yard line and when the striker got something on it the second ball again in the 6 yard box was the second fulham goal. again back to yesterday when skrtel was yelling at migs to come for the ball and migs was slow coming for it and almost got himself sent off for bringing the ball out of the box with his hands.


thats 3 huge mistakes. 2 that led to goals in the last 2 games he has played in. im sure i could go back through the games but my point is that he doesnt take that leadership role that he needs to. Reina despite his drop in ability over teh last 2 or 3 years was great at controlling his area. didnt always work but you knew if the ball was going into the box he was coming for it.

migs not so much.

i think that is why our defence is playing poorly. its hard to be confident when you dont trust your keeper.

Ok, for Migs i think you are correct in the dominating your box regard. Soon as that ball comes anywhere near his area the shout should either be AWAY or Keepers - yesterday on a few occasions the defenders were waiting on him and he was waiting on them. Terrible communications from a PL keeper AND defender.

But for the cross yesterday with the speed of the ball into the box, the trajectory and the position of Agger in particular, he needs to trust his defenders to win it (and Agger did). If he went out he could have been stuck in no mans land. 2 Defenders, 1 Attacker ... leave them be. For the Fulham game, he might have had a better chance to collect it BUT, sweet jesus, Toure fell over and kicked the ball into his own net! Nothing to do with having no confidence in your Keeper!!! Just deal with the bloody ball. This is not keystone cops here it is bread and butter simple defending that is done on every pitch across the world. Toure shout be shot for that ... not blaming the keeper.

Chucky the tree

Paulegend wrote: »

ive given examples of where i felt migs was at fault


my point is that migs doesnt seem to take control in his own area enough.

the cross in that led to the peno yesterday was along the 6 yard line. he should have come for it. same thing happened against fulham where he never came for a cross on the 6 yard line and when the striker got something on it the second ball again in the 6 yard box was the second fulham goal. again back to yesterday when skrtel was yelling at migs to come for the ball and migs was slow coming for it and almost got himself sent off for bringing the ball out of the box with his hands.


thats 3 huge mistakes. 2 that led to goals in the last 2 games he has played in. im sure i could go back through the games but my point is that he doesnt take that leadership role that he needs to. Reina despite his drop in ability over teh last 2 or 3 years was great at controlling his area. didnt always work but you knew if the ball was going into the box he was coming for it.

migs not so much.

i think that is why our defence is playing poorly. its hard to be confident when you dont trust your keeper.

You don't come for every ball in the 6 yard box and Migs should certainly have never came for the one yesterday during the penalty incident. It was at the front of the goal and he had 3 players in front of him. That's never a ball your keeper should be going to try and claim. Would need to see that ball again that Migs could have claimed, either way it was a easy one for Skrtel to deal with so not a huge deal.


Migs has definitely made some mistakes, but our defending has been terrible. Nearly ever corner/freekick Skrtel is ripping the jersey off opposition players and not to mentioned his ropey clearances that far to often tend to bounce perfectly in the middle of the goal for the opposition. Agger is physically bullied far to often and Toure can be a disaster at times. It's hardly surprising Mig isn't hugely confident.

DrumSteve

Someone said on F365 that we're the Mullet of English football.

Business at the front and party at the back , if you will. Pretty apt if taken based on the Swansea game.

D'Agger

My thoughts:

Strange game but one that could be expected somewhat given the football LFC & Swansea tend to play.

Felt Gerrard was exposed a few times - he tends to drift to whatever wing the ball goes to in order to support the full backs, whereas I'd rather see Coutihno & Henderson do that, with him staying central. Far too often Swansea seemed to give it to Dyer & Routledge who would then ship it back to the middle, after Gerrard shuffled across. It was the cause of Shelvey having far too much time and space in the opening half. If you compare this game to the Arsenal game, we certainly pressed better higher up the pitch, with Coutihno in particular doing alot of work that allowed Gerrard to stay central. The difference here was that Swansea were able to get the ball up the pitch quicker and were also better at closing down up high, which Arsenal didn't do, meaning we were never going to have it all our own way.

Johnson for me gets a pass - first game back, I thought he should have been on the right with Flanagan left tbh but fair dues to Flanagan, defensively he was very sound.

Agger & Skrtel, I think they suffered from Gerrard being exposed a few times but they don't work well together, I think Agger & Sahko would be best suited but both being lefties could be an issue, that said, Agger is fairly two footed so would easily try him at RCB. While I thought Agger was poor, Skrtel is going to take the flack moreso due to the decisions that cost us two goals.

Sturridge & Suarez once again on song - the cross from Suarez to set up Danny was top notch - even if one of them has an off day and forgets their shooting boots, you know they'll still create which is a great boast to be able to make. I mean, at 3-3 yesterday, you almost knew we'd score again, or at the very least, create some clear cut chances.

With that said, Champions close out games like yesterdays & the Stoke game. It's great to see character in the team to come back from losing positions but the fact remains, we're at fault for putting ourselves in those positions. Tactically Rodgers is very good and importantly, he seems to learn from his mistakes more often than not. However, in a comfortable winning situation, our defensive shape/setup needs to be improved upon. To save my young heart if anything else - if we're playing like this in 10-20 years then I simply won't be able to watch anymore for obvious health reasons.

Finally - delighted for Henderson, worked hard again and hopefully he can continue to add goals to his game, he deserves them. Allen showed us what he was bought for when he came on, he's brilliant at nicking the ball and hopefully he'll continue to progress and put his injury woes behind him.

Slattsy

DrumSteve wrote: »

Someone said on F365 that we're the Mullet of English football.

Business at the front and party at the back , if you will. Pretty apt if taken based on the Swansea game.

Thats ****ing quality! Nearly spit my coffee out all over my desk.

Paulegend

NukaCola wrote: »

So when Brad Jones played who was at fault?

Its not as black and white as you are making out. Not coming for a cross when the striker is marked by two CBs is good decision making. Some of the things you are highlighting aren't GKing mistakes.

In reality its a combination of the whole defence, Mignolet is part of it but not as big as you are making out.

well Brad is a backup keeper. i dont think any of us would be happy with him to be a permanent fixture in the first team. that is my point. if Brad was in goals against united then im sure that whoever was at center back would have that on their minds in some sort of way. they wouldnt be playing with full confidence


i know that its not all migs fault. im not blaming him. im just saying that he is part of the reason and its not just our defence that needs to get their head straight.

i do think he should have come for the cross myself. maybe more so in the fulham game.

i hope he gets his act together because at 25 we need a top keeper to lead our future challenges. he isnt just some young up and comer. maybe 25 is young for a keeper but what age was reina when he arrived?? we need a similar step up from a keeper. if he cant get it together then in the summer we wont only need a center back

K-9

Paulegend wrote: »

the cross in that led to the peno yesterday was along the 6 yard line. he should have come for it. same thing happened against fulham where he never came for a cross on the 6 yard line and when the striker got something on it the second ball again in the 6 yard box was the second fulham goal. again back to yesterday when skrtel was yelling at migs to come for the ball and migs was slow coming for it and almost got himself sent off for bringing the ball out of the box with his hands.


thats 3 huge mistakes. 2 that led to goals in the last 2 games he has played in. im sure i could go back through the games but my point is that he doesnt take that leadership role that he needs to. Reina despite his drop in ability over teh last 2 or 3 years was great at controlling his area. didnt always work but you knew if the ball was going into the box he was coming for it.

migs not so much.

i think that is why our defence is playing poorly. its hard to be confident when you dont trust your keeper.

I don't get the criticism on the penalty yesterday, Agger cleared it, Skrtel finally got caught out and he's been lucky he hasn't given a couple away this season. I don't see why Mig has to come out for that ball, Agger and Skrtel are there.

Some stats on Allen yesterday, completed 18/19 passes, 5/6 tackles, 2/2 dribbles, 7 ball recoveries, 1 chance created and 1 interception. Swansea created 8 chances and had 11 shots for the 56 minutes he wasn't on the pitch, 3 shots and 2 chances after his introduction.

Paulegend

K-9 wrote: »

I don't get the criticism on the penalty yesterday, Agger cleared it, Skrtel finally got caught out and he's been lucky he hasn't given a couple away this season. I don't see why Mig has to come out for that ball, Agger and Skrtel are there.

Some stats on Allen yesterday, completed 18/19 passes, 5/6 tackles, 2/2 dribbles, 7 ball recoveries, 1 chance created and 1 interception. Swansea created 8 chances and had 11 shots for the 56 minutes he wasn't on the pitch, 3 shots and 2 chances after his introduction.

just using it as an example of what i mean by him not taking control of his area. others have pointed out that he was right to leave it to his defenders and agger cleared it. i agree that he was probably right to. but in a similar situation against fulham he did the same thing and it led to a goal.

i feel though that he just needs to man up more in terms of communicating and taking control of his area.

Allen looked class yesterday but i hope he can build on that and not have it just another "former player playing aginst his old club" type display

djPSB

Paulegend wrote: »

just using it as an example of what i mean by him not taking control of his area. others have pointed out that he was right to leave it to his defenders and agger cleared it. i agree that he was probably right to. but in a similar situation against fulham he did the same thing and it led to a goal.

i feel though that he just needs to man up more in terms of communicating and taking control of his area.

Allen looked class yesterday but i hope he can build on that and not have it just another "former player playing aginst his old club" type display

Allen has looked good this season once he's match fit.

Unfortunately every time he seems to be hitting form, he picks up an injury.

Nuri Sahin

klose wrote: »

After yesterdays win and the fulham win he first thing i thought of was thats how united have been winning for years, not playing well but grinding out results and i welcome it. We are at the buisness end of the season, we know how good we can be but for now with eleven games to go is that we get the 3 points, not how we get them.

Agree with you on the first part of your comment.

My fear is we don't have the squad to continue this gung-ho approach week in, week out and get away with it. I'm with Mike on the 2-0 wins over these 4-3 wins I must say. Thought it was weird people turning up their nose at Chelsea's performances grinding out 1-0 or 2-0 wins in the matchthread yesterday. At the end of the day, I want that league title with games going as smoothly as possible! All well and good when we can look back on a 4-3 result knowing we won, but yesterday could have been very different too. Whether we tactically would have sown up our mistakes in the first half, I'm not sure, but Shelvey was given the freedom of Anfield to wreck havoc. Fortunately he went off with an injury at the half. Going back to my squad point, Man U have their luck in seasons past, sure, but they had a squad too they could count on with a base of a confident, ever present keeper and CB pairing they could call upon at the very least to bail them when they went all guns blazing. Right now, I'm not sure we can say the same.

By all means, I'm not saying if we go 2-0 up after 25 mins or whatever it was yesterday, no one is asking us to sit back entirely and defend for the rest of the game. Common sense needs to be applied though. The next 5 minutes or so should be stopping any possible response from the other team, slowing the game down for a moment, catching our breath and if the chance arises in that time frame, of course rip them apart without the spine falling apart in search of another goal.

Maybe it's truly a fairly tale year and we'll continue in this manner.. and win the league, but I fancy drop at least drop half a dozen points doing so, which will still secure a top 4 at least.

Nuri Sahin

K-9 wrote: »

I don't get the criticism on the penalty yesterday, Agger cleared it, Skrtel finally got caught out and he's been lucky he hasn't given a couple away this season. I don't see why Mig has to come out for that ball, Agger and Skrtel are there.

Some stats on Allen yesterday, completed 18/19 passes, 5/6 tackles, 2/2 dribbles, 7 ball recoveries, 1 chance created and 1 interception. Swansea created 8 chances and had 11 shots for the 56 minutes he wasn't on the pitch, 3 shots and 2 chances after his introduction.

It was great to see someone willing to get on the ball, recycle it accurately to keep things ticking over calmly while having an defensive influence. I really hope he starts the next game alongside Gerrard and Henderson.

5starpool

I was on holidays for a week so haven't been posting, but I caught the game yesterday before I came back, and it my nerves were shot watching it.

We are in a great position now of course, but possibly 6 of our next 7 league games could be away, depending on rearrangements, as the City match at home will be postponed if they beat Wigan in the cup. While anything could happen now, that goes for potential bad things as well as potential good things, although we are strong favourites for top 4 at least.

mike65

Put crudely taking control of a game can be done in two ways -

One - you take control of the ball - Allen
Two - you take control of the space - Lucas

The manager needs to make a decision as to how to protect the back line (CBs really) and how to balance defence and attack - that's what he is paid to do.

5live

Demosthenese wrote: »

All this nonsense about players not playing together this season etc ... these are professional players and should NOT be making individual errors like the ones we've seen i don't care if they are back from injury or not.

Our problem is that we have basically had Skrtel fit for most the season and he has been hot and cold, we do not have a partner to go in beside him that has been a standout candidate despite trying Toure (Who was excellent for the earlier part of the season but how has found his level, he has the jitters too and that is very apparant) Agger (Who now is being watched closer than ever since we have viable competition for him - and he is looking like the defender he always was, poor in the air, easily bullied and lacks the necessary physical mentallity to be a proper ENGLISH PL centre back) and Sahko who has been injured.

Added to the equation we have Glen Johnson who is a shadow of his former self, lets be honest here, Flanno has made him look completely lazt and out of form with his displays which have not been excellent but very consistent. 4 defenders and we have 2 having offdays more often than not, what you expect to happen?

I'll also add, that some pairings simply do NOT work in football, no matter how perfect they seem on paper. I think we all WANT Agger to succeed cos he is comfortable on the ball, but he simply is not cutting it as a TOP defender in the PL. He does not seem to compliment Skrtel. WHY? Who knows why ... anyone that has played football will tell you, sometimes you just seme to be better balanced with certain players as a partnership. We've not had a decent partership since Hypia and Carra, it just worked! United are finding the same problem these days when they cannot find a pair that Gel. Arsenal had the problem for the last 5 years. Sometimes we fancy a certain player cos they look good or do good things ... but its BR's job to find a pairing that work.

I hope that Sahko does become that player where we are saying "Sahko plus one other centre half" as if its a given he is the dominant player.

Some players need to man up (Glen Agger) some players need to keep their concentration for 90 mins and shake off the doubt that seems to dog them (Toure Skrtel).

I think you are being harsh on Toure, tbh.

At the start of the season he was played RCB and was very successful there until injury. Since he has come back, he is being played LCB and i don't think it suits him. Slicing the ball into the net isn't something i would blame him for (having done it myself a few times:D), sometimes sh1t happens, but the pass across the box was a poor decision by him which he admitted. He wasn't brought in as a starter but as an experienced CB to help the younger players. Playing back on the right would see a better display by him, imo.

Agger has been a disappointment this season for me, i expected a more solid display from him. I dont like the way both he and Skrtel are bullied by physical CFs and definitely one should be moved on this summer.