Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14 Mod warning post#7005

ArmaniJeanss

Ultimately its incredibly difficult to have really good backup players.
The sheer dedication, devotion, heart and willpower needed to bridge the huge gap from 'teenage wannabee amongst hundreds of others' to 'player capable of playing at top level' means that much as we criticise them 99.5% of top players want to play every week and would prefer to play all the time at mid-table-team rather than be the FACup/CapitalOne cup player at a bigger club.
Which is why even top teams like Barca 2008-2012 always looked a bit light once you went beyond the first 12/13 players.

Only other way is to have almost constant rotation like City do with Dzeko/Negredo, but this doesn't apply to us as Suarez isn't going to be rotated as we'll intend play him 90% of games.

So players of the calibre of Borini is realistically what our bench will always look like imo.

monkey9

Lads, if Borini is good enough as a squad player, why is he loaned out to Sunderland?

smileyj1987

monkey9 wrote: »

Lads, if Borini is good enough as a squad player, why is he loaned out to Sunderland?

He needed the game time to adapt to the league .

whatawaster

monkey9 wrote: »

Lads, if Borini is good enough as a squad player, why is he loaned out to Sunderland?

No european football this season would have meant very few games for him

You haven't told us your alternative - how much of our budget are you spending on a backup striker?

Chucky the tree

monkey9 wrote: »

Lads, if Borini is good enough as a squad player, why is he loaned out to Sunderland?

So you don't think Suso is good enough as a squad player either?

5live

klose wrote: »

Some arsenal fans on twitter saying they should sue us, we should be deducted points etc etc.. Hillarious

Twitter, the home of the 'Shane-Long-should-be-in-the-england-squad-for-Brazil' brigade:rolleyes:

monkey9

whatawaster wrote: »

No european football this season would have meant very few games for him

You haven't told us your alternative - how much of our budget are you spending on a backup striker?

And yet we signed Aspas.

I just think it's mad that people want Borini because he scored a goal. He isn't good enough. It's as obvious as anything.

Paulegend

whatawaster wrote: »

Alberto is a young player, not really fair to call him average. Hasn't had a chance yet, and young players develop at different ages. Ramsey was called average by many as little as a year ago

Henderson and Lucas are great examples of why Borini shouldn't be written off as not good enough

alberto looked pretty decent in the glimpses we got of him. considering his first season in a new country. i think he will be a good squad player in the short term for us. next season players like ossaidi alberto suso borini aspas wisdom kelly allen ilori ibe will all be decent squad players for us next season

premier league 38 games
champions league 6 games (group) 7 (potential knockouts) extra 2 if we finish 4th
fa/league cups 2-13 games


thats at least 48 games next season and a potential of playing 72 games. we need a big squad

brevity

People think Borini will be fine as back up for Cup games etc. I don't think anyone is going to claim that he's challenging Sturridge or Suarez.

marno21

For a lot of this season Arsenal had Bendtner and Park Chu Young on the bench, having Borini on the bench wouldn't be that bad.

What I do worry about though is there seems to be very few no. 9's in the academy, Ngoo and Yesil seem to be the main two and well Ngoo won't suit our system (without going down the ability road) and Yesil has done his cruciate for the 2nd time which isn't helping his cause.

monkey9

whatawaster wrote: »

No european football this season would have meant very few games for him

You haven't told us your alternative - how much of our budget are you spending on a backup striker?

I don't have a budget and I haven't given any particular thought as to who is or isn't good enough for Liverpool.

I'm simply saying Borini isn't good enough and he doesn't have a future at the club.

whatawaster

monkey9 wrote: »

And yet we signed Aspas.

I just think it's mad that people want Borini because he scored a goal. He isn't good enough. It's as obvious as anything.

Don't want Borini back because he scored a goal, I want him back because he is our player, we should have loads of games last season and don't have loads of backup options in attack.

Front 4 option for next season - Suarez, Sturridge, Sterling, Konoplyanka (?), Coutinho, Henderson, Borini, Suso

Lots of options there. It's not as if we will have to rely on Borini alone if Suarez or Sturridge get injured. We can easily change our system, play one striker with two wide players.

monkey9

Chucky the tree wrote: »

So you don't think Suso is good enough as a squad player either?

Don't think Suso will make it, no. People here were waffling on for years about Pacheco as if he was good enough when it was quite clear he wasn't.

whatawaster

monkey9 wrote: »

Don't think Suso will make it, no. People here were waffling on for years about Pacheco as if he was good enough when it was quite clear he wasn't.

Pacheco also couldn't find another club at any decent level. Suso is a regular in La Liga.

Pacheco has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not Suso will make it. People were waffling on about Sterling not being good enough a few months ago. People know **** all.

DrumSteve

monkey9 wrote: »

I don't have a budget and I haven't given any particular thought as to who is or isn't good enough for Liverpool.

I'm simply saying Borini isn't good enough and he doesn't have a future at the club.

That doesnt make sense. You say you haven't given thought to who isnt or is good enough, then say he isn't good enough.

Give him a chance.

jesus_thats_gre

whatawaster wrote: »

You haven't told us your alternative - how much of our budget are you spending on a backup striker?

Really dislike this kind of posting...

Borini is doing on at Sunderland. Guessing a big part of that is down to playing week in and week. Probably won't be the case if he comes back to Liverpool.

There is nothing wrong with accepting that transfer hasn't or likely won't work out. Not every signing is a success.

BenEadir

klose wrote: »

Some arsenal fans on twitter saying they should sue us, we should be deducted points etc etc.. Hillarious

Arsenal couldn't sue LFC even if they wanted to. Arsenal weren't a party to the LFC<->Luis Suarez contract of employment. The only one who could sue for breach of contract would be Luis himself and somehow I don't see that happening especially as he recently signed a new contract on improved terms.

whatawaster

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Really dislike this kind of posting...

What kind?

No point just saying players aren't good enough and we need to get rid, we need to replace them, surely?

jesus_thats_gre

whatawaster wrote: »

What kind?

No point just saying players aren't good enough and we need to get rid, we need to replace them, surely?

Why can't someone be of the opinion that a player isn't up to it without having to suggest a viable alternative.

Being able to identify a problem and being able to fix it are two very different things.

monkey9

DrumSteve wrote: »

That doesnt make sense. You say you haven't given thought to who isnt or is good enough, then say he isn't good enough.

Give him a chance.

I'll leave it at this. I don't think Fabio Borini is good enough or has a future at Liverpool. I have given no thought whatsoever as to who I would replace him with. I don't work for the club and I have no budget to spend. I'm just giving my opinion on Fabio Borini as a Liverpool player. I don't rate him. He's done ok for Sunderland whilst being nothing special. An average Premier League footballer.

whatawaster

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Why can't someone be of the opinion that a player isn't up to it without having to suggest a viable alternative.

Being able to identify a problem and being able to fix it are two very different things.

I didn't ask him to fix the problem or identify an alternative. I asked if we should spend money on an alternative.

To me, it would be pointless. We have Borini, he is young, he is on low wages, the manager knows him and rates him

googled eyes

From all John Henry's quotes yesterday

Dave Phillips
@lovefutebol
A. “Well, he [Suarez] scored again today. Wyc [Grousebeck, co-owner of the Boston Celtics] and I have had discussions about #lfc."

I wonder will this have any bearings on the club in the future?

BenEadir

monkey9 wrote: »

Lads, if Borini is good enough as a squad player, why is he loaned out to Sunderland?

For the same reasons Lukaku, Sturridge, Wilshire, Kyle Walker, Thibaut Courtois etc were all loaned out as young players - because they needed game time to develop. Give the guy a break, he's young and developing. In a better team next year his stats will improve.

smileyj1987

googled eyes wrote: »

I wonder will this have any bearings on the club in the future?

Why would it ? If Suarez wanted out that bad then he would have brought LFC to court over his contract . It didn't end up in court but it shows the owners of LFC won't be treated like mugs .

monkey9

whatawaster wrote: »

Pacheco also couldn't find another club at any decent level. Suso is a regular in La Liga.

Pacheco has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not Suso will make it. People were waffling on about Sterling not being good enough a few months ago. People know **** all.

Someone mentioned Suso, I gave my opinion that I don't think he'll make it at Liverpool. I also don't think Luis Alberto will either.

No big deal.

monkey9

BenThere wrote: »

For the same reasons Lukaku, Sturridge, Wilshire, Kyle Walker, Thibaut Courtois etc were all loaned out as young players - because they needed game time to develop. Give the guy a break, he's young and developing. In a better team next year his stats will improve.

And most of them were more impressive during their loan spell than Borini has been at Sunderland.

As for giving him a break, do people think I'm an employee at the club or something, that I'm influencing the transfer policy?

googled eyes

googled eyes wrote: »

From all John Henry's quotes yesterday



I wonder will this have any bearings on the club in the future?

smileyj1987 wrote: »

Why would it ? If Suarez wanted out that bad then he would have brought LFC to court over his contract . It didn't end up in court but it shows the owners of LFC won't be treated like mugs .

Smiley, I was wondering if the quote meant Grousbeck had an interest in LFC?

I've asked the guy and he replied that that Grousbeck wants to buy the Canadians of George Gillet.
So no interest in investing in Liverpool

mosstin

whatawaster wrote: »

Pacheco also couldn't find another club at any decent level. Suso is a regular in La Liga.

Pacheco has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not Suso will make it. People were waffling on about Sterling not being good enough a few months ago. People know **** all.

People are people so why should it be, you and monkey9 should get along so awfully?

Devilman40k

smileyj1987 wrote: »

Why would it ? If Suarez wanted out that bad then he would have brought LFC to court over his contract . It didn't end up in court but it shows the owners of LFC won't be treated like mugs .

Nothing to do with Suarez , Grousebeck has a sports investment company. I think that might have something to do with the cclub's future

whatawaster

monkey9 wrote: »

Someone mentioned Suso, I gave my opinion that I don't think he'll make it at Liverpool. I also don't think Luis Alberto will either.

No big deal.

That's fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion. I'm not really sure Suso will make it here either to be honest, there is a lot of competition for his position

monkey9

whatawaster wrote: »

That's fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion. I'm not really sure Suso will make it here either to be honest, there is a lot of competition for his position

This is all I'm saying about Borini. But next think I know, I'm being asked to lay down a spreadsheet, quote my transfer budget for the following year and hand over names. F*cking hell........:pac:

whatawaster

monkey9 wrote: »

This is all I'm saying about Borini. But next think I know, I'm being asked to lay down a spreadsheet, quote my transfer budget for the following year and hand over names. F*cking hell........:pac:

Nobody looked for names, but I don't think fans will do anything but complain if we spend 10 million on a player who makes a dozen starts next season

Raif Severance

Whatawaster's Right.

LFC have more Pressing Issues, than spending more Money on another Back-up Striker to Suarez and Sturridge. Borini/Aspas should be more than enough.

It's not like we're having Problems scoring Goals.

LFC needs to address our Midfield, FBs and/or CB Issues first, then if there's Money left, then see if we can get one better.

But right now, it's a Luxury we can't Afford.

Courtesy Flush

whatawaster wrote: »

People were waffling on about Sterling not being good enough a few months ago. People know **** all.

A few months ago he wasnt good enough.... Hes improved immensely

Charlie19

I think our priorities would be to sign a midfielder, a decent striker that will add genuine competition for the front two. Then I would Iook at getting in a fullback (maybe two) and then a centreback. In that order. It would be nice if Rodgers could actually get in his targets this summer.

Raif Severance

Charlie19 wrote: »

I think our priorities would be to sign a midfielder, a decent striker that will add genuine competition for the front two. Then I would Iook at getting in a fullback (maybe two) and then a centreback. In that order. It would be nice if Rodgers could actually get in his targets this summer.

A Striker that can get Goals, as many as Sturridge/Suarez, would Cost alot of Money.

Sorry, Mate. But that's Unrealistic.

We're better off, signing Players that will Improve our Starting 11 first, before looking for our Dzeko.

whatawaster

Courtesy Flush wrote: »

A few months ago he wasnt good enough.... Hes improved immensely

A few months ago he was completely devoid of confidence. Yes, he has improved, but it's not like that improvement has come from nowhere, he has always had this ability, and he showed bits of it last season

NukaCola

At CB for the 1st team we have Wisdom/Illori/Coates/Sakho/Toure/Agger/Skrtel/Kelly.

Coates will probably be cut loose. Kelly will probably be pushed out right as a FB. Wisdom/Illori will probably get a few loan spells. Toure is a backup for at least one more season. Sakho will probably be our 1st choice CB, so realistically 1 of Agger/Skrtel will probably need to go if we get in another first team CB in the summer, otherwise we are wasting money.

Personally i dont think we need another CB this summer, we have enough to work with for now. 2 decent CBs coming through with enough cover from Toure/Sakho/Agger/Skrtel next season. Performances may have been poor from our CBs but they are issues that could potentially be ironed out. In an ideal world with plenty of money i would love a top CB, but we have limited resources.

FBs are of greater concern. GJ is probably gone and LB is a problem for a while now. Flanagan has been performing well above what could be expected but not the long term solution we need, with Kelly also being made of glass. FBs should be our number 1 priority in the summer.

Charlie19

Raif Severance wrote: »

A Striker that can get Goals, as many as Sturridge/Suarez, would Cost alot of Money.

Sorry, Mate. But that's Unrealistic.

We're better off, signing Players that will Improve our Starting 11 first, before looking for our Dzeko.

I dont think its too unrealistic tbh, we've been kind of lucky this season that we were not without both of our front at the same time(touches wood) and with next season hopefully bringing a lot more fixtures with European football, I really do think that we need better cover than just Aspas and Borini.

As I said first priority would be a central midfielder maybe that winger that the club have tried to bring in. I'm not as worried about the CB's as most, think we have enough and we just need a settled pair. So that just leaves fullbacks and a striker, remember the days of Houllier, he always had four decent enough strikers in the squad.

Juniorhurler

Charlie19 wrote: »

I dont think its too unrealistic tbh, we've been kind of lucky this season that we were not without both of our front at the same time(touches wood) and with next season hopefully bringing a lot more fixtures with European football, I really do think that we need better cover than just Aspas and Borini.

As I said first priority would be a central midfielder maybe that winger that the club have tried to bring in. I'm not as worried about the CB's as most, think we have enough and we just need a settled pair. So that just leaves fullbacks and a striker, remember the days of Houllier, he always had four decent enough strikers in the squad.

4 decent strikers. I presume this would include Sinama-Pongolle and Milan Baros then if so. To be fair I would rate Borini above both.

atilladehun

Personally I would buy the best midfielder we could possibly afford. Although Fergie didn't do that for years and had no bother until he was gone. But still, we need to control that area and we have never done that under BR.


Second choice would be a supporting attacker in the style that we have been going for over the last couple of windows. Kono, Miky, Willian.

The other positions I'd only bother with if someone leaves. Let Flanno have another season crack at LB, see if he can oust a fit Enrique. If GJ goes replace otherwise he's ok. CB's can stay at it, might be better with a decent centre mid. Sakho will be a year at it then.

Strikers are deadly.

I'm trying to base this in reality and not Championship Manager. I don't think we will have sweeping changes.

Charlie19

Juniorhurler wrote: »

4 decent strikers. I presume this would include Sinama-Pongolle and Milan Baros then if so. To be fair I would rate Borini above both.

Ok I'll give you Pongolle but Baros was a good Striker.

Juniorhurler

On his day he was in fairness but the lazy article would not suit the pressing game.

Ferris_Bueller

For me, the problem with Borini is that he doesn't seem like a player who will come off the bench and change a game, and despite him being solid and hard working, he isn't exactly a Dirk Kuyt type defensive forward who will offer protection when holding onto a lead, so when exactly do you bring him on?

He has done well for Sunderland this season, 7 goals is not a bad return and any time I have seen him (albeit rarely) he has looked good, but this is for Sunderland, a team you can nearly get away with scoring a goal every 3 or 4 games. If he was to be back at Liverpool I genuinely don't think he would offer enough of a goal threat to be a useful option for us. Even if we were to play him in cup games, I would feel as if our goals are more likely to come from other areas than him.

Having said this I wouldn't mind seeing him back for another season and then re-evaluating his situation next summer - as many have said, it is incredibly hard to have a strong forward on your bench.

ManOnFire

Liverpool scouts at the Sevilla v Sociedad game this evening , lots of talent to take in . Like the look of Alberto Moreno myself

mike65

Another ****ty 1-0 win for Spurs.

whatawaster

They are really poor.

Don't know why I'm still worried but I am

klose

mike65 wrote: »

Another ****ty 1-0 win for Spurs.

I nearly gave a damn, but then i remembered we are in 2nd :cool:

Courtesy Flush

Spurs hanging on in there

Utopia Parkway

Courtesy Flush wrote: »

Spurs hanging on in there

Their next 4 league games will tell a story.

Chelsea v Spurs
Spurs v Arsenal
Spurs v Southampton
Liverpool v Spurs