Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14 Mod warning post#7005

daithijjj · 03-03-2014 11:46pm

whatawaster wrote: »

Of course I get the point you're making, and you're correct that next season will be much tougher. But we have still made a massive leap forward this season.

To an extent, I think our squad this season has been tailored for not being in Europe. A good few players were let out on loan who would otherwise have been here to bulk up our squad if we had more games.
Now, Wisdom, Suso, Assaidi and Borini might not be top drawer players, but we are only 18 months into some major rebuilding. The squad is being improved bit by bit, similar to how it improved under Rafa. He signed a lot of players, a lot of whom didn't work out, but brick-by-brick it all came together - Alonso ... Reina ... Agger ... Torres ... Mascherano

Competing on multiple fronts is the next step. Getting top 4 and consolidating it next season will be a major ask. But you have to think that we will spend a significant amount of money in the summer if we make the CL.

I don't really think the comparison with Newcastle is valid. They were an average side who ground their way into contention for the top 4. We have shown on quite a few occasions that we have that we can be a cut above that level. We can destroy even some of the best teams in the league and as an attacking force we look top class a lot of the time.

The comparison is especially valid imo because they had Ba and Cisse on very good form, were out of everything but the league by Feb.

You say they were an average side, their forwards were not as good as ours but you dont get more points for more goals. Average sides can be dragged to great things by players who are great at scoring goals. Our team would probably be in the same ballpark (league position) as Newcastle were if we didnt have two inspirational players up front. Not forgetting that United were also in the mix then, they arent now, they might be next year again.

5live · 03-03-2014 11:46pm

Courtesy Flush wrote: »

What would worry me is that if we do indeed make top 4 and have to deal with top flight european football next season as well as premier league, the squad wont be strong enough. We seem to assume that investment will be made but we cant be certain of that. FSG might see the tv money as revenue and decide not to invest it in the quality needed to compete at the CL level

I think I will wait until I see where we finish before I worry about summer signings.

I would imagine we would have a higher level of players targeted and a significant budget to buy and pay their wages but tbh it will take 2 years of CL football to build a squad capable of doing well in the competition. I, personally, hope we would put the league far ahead of the CL because it is more important to stay in the top 4 than to reach the knockout stages of the CL for that reason alone.

The point about how FSG view the CL money is valid after the last transfer window but hopefully they will release all the funds for transfers.

smileyj1987 · 04-03-2014 12:20am

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-accounts-show-club-676826 0

The clubs Debt has been reduced by 200 million since FSG took over .

K-9 · 04-03-2014 12:24am

daithijjj wrote: »

The comparison is especially valid imo because they had Ba and Cisse on very good form, were out of everything but the league by Feb.

You say they were an average side, they're forwards were not as good as ours but you dont get more points for more goals. Average sides can be dragged to great things by players who are great at scoring goals. Our team would probably be in the same ballpark (league position) as Newcastle were if we didnt have two inspirational players up front. Not forgetting that United were also in the mix then, they arent now, they might be next year again.

It'll be a top 7 again next season going for 4 spots. We need to add 3 or 4 first team type players, CM and a Salah type player and a LB especially. We just about coped with an injury crisis at the back. We'll still be unlikely to outbid a Chelsea but with CL, I'd hope we could match Spurs, with us more attractive. In fairness we're years behind the rest of the top 4 squad wise.

Utopia Parkway · 04-03-2014 12:31am

Courtesy Flush wrote: »

What would worry me is that if we do indeed make top 4 and have to deal with top flight european football next season as well as premier league, the squad wont be strong enough. We seem to assume that investment will be made but we cant be certain of that. FSG might see the tv money as revenue and decide not to invest it in the quality needed to compete at the CL level

I think we will spend money in the Summer and the first team/squad will be strengthened. Don't think it will be extravagant spending though a la Chelsea or Man City or Man U being rumoured to go out spending 150M or something like that.

I'd say we will pick up another attacker (maybe Konoplayaka), a midfielder, maybe a centre-half if we sell one, maybe a full-back or two. Lads like Borini and Illori will be back. Ibe might play a bigger role next season.

Would be happy enough with that as long as the players we sign are genuine first team quality.

dubdamo · 04-03-2014 12:34am

It was posted on "LFC Worldwide" on Facebook that Webb is reffing the Mancs game

Agent Coulson · 04-03-2014 12:36am

smileyj1987 wrote: »

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-accounts-show-club-676826 0

The clubs Debt has been reduced by 200 million FSG took over .

So the club is now only in debt to the bank to the tune of £45.1 m or to put another have the value of Luis Suarez :P

You have to give a lot of credit to Ian Arye for this the football side of his job may not be his strongest but his commerical side really is.

mike65 · 04-03-2014 12:37am

https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/liverpool-football-club-release-luis-suarez-to-arsenal-football-club

5starpool · 04-03-2014 12:42am

dubdamo wrote: »

It was posted on "LFC Worldwide" on Facebook that Webb is reffing the Mancs game

I'm not saying it won't happen, as he often gets the bigger games, but officials have not been announced for those games yet, although they will be in a couple of days.

http://www.premierleague.com/content/premierleague/en-gb/referees/appointments.html?paramSearchContext=MATCH_WEEK&paramMatchWeek=30

K-9 · 04-03-2014 12:42am

A 50 percent rise in Commercial Revenue is pretty impressive, even for boring financial stuff. Very fortunate that we've such a huge, loyal worldwide fan base that could cope with no CL, and all the other off field shyte over the last few years.

whatawaster · 04-03-2014 12:48am

Was not expecting a 50 million loss, I must say, though the details of the accounting for player transfers probably accounts for a lot of it.

rob316 · 04-03-2014 1:04am

They are good owners and far better than some supporters give them credit for. They might not have the huge funds but they are responsible owners and I would be confident they would never screw over the club. They have made the right decisions consistently. Sacking hodgson, bringing in kenny, sacking kenny at the right time, hiring a young manager like Rodgers and giving him the time to implement his plans.

Not to mention backing Kenny with a large transfer spree.

klose · 04-03-2014 1:15am

Hopefully rodgers has a go if webb is in charge for the united game in the media so we dont have to endure a 'reffing' performance like his last two games with us.

kingshankly · 04-03-2014 1:30am

5starpool wrote: »

I'm not saying it won't happen, as he often gets the bigger games, but officials have not been announced for those games yet, although they will be in a couple of days.

http://www.premierleague.com/content/premierleague/en-gb/referees/appointments.html?paramSearchContext=MATCH_WEEK&paramMatchWeek=30

It you think the decision not to give a penalty against arsenal was poor the one he didn't give for utd against spurs was incredible
Can't imagine eitger club will want to see him

Jesus Wept · 04-03-2014 2:06am

whatawaster wrote: »

Would be unfair not to call this season concrete progress. In the 20-odd years of the premier league we have never had as many points after 28 games.

We can't have been far off it 08/09?

Alonso77 · 04-03-2014 2:16am

We can't have been far off it 08/09?

We're 1 pt better off now than at this stage 08/09.

http://www.statto.com/football/teams/liverpool/2008-2009/table/2009-03-07

Jesus Wept · 04-03-2014 2:22am

Those accounts say the book value of the players is 120m, is that contracts or sale value. Sale value would have to be higher what with Louise.

rob316 wrote: »

They are good owners and far better than some supporters give them credit for. They might not have the huge funds but they are responsible owners and I would be confident they would never screw over the club. They have made the right decisions consistently. Sacking hodgson, bringing in kenny, sacking kenny at the right time, hiring a young manager like Rodgers and giving him the time to implement his plans.

Not to mention backing Kenny with a large transfer spree.

There are some very bad decisions in there.

Paulegend · 04-03-2014 10:03am

Our Year wrote: »

Those accounts say the book value of the players is 120m, is that contracts or sale value. Sale value would have to be higher what with Louise.

There are some very bad decisions in there.

would it be value we bought them for rather than their resale value?

while we could say Suarez is worth 100M+ we cant really give accurate figures. for all we know Suarez's sale value could be 60M according to the owners.

we cant predict resale values

rob316 · 04-03-2014 10:25am

Our Year wrote: »

Those accounts say the book value of the players is 120m, is that contracts or sale value. Sale value would have to be higher what with Louise.

There are some very bad decisions in there.

Can you elaborate on your point please? All decisions they made that I have pointed out were for the good of the club, its really not there fault the Kenny debacle, they backed him better than any other manager. With the promise he showed when he took over from Hodgson they were probably surprised as anyone to find that Kenny was utterly out of his depth.

Luckycharms_74 · 04-03-2014 10:46am

LuckyLloyd · 04-03-2014 10:57am

rob316 wrote: »

Can you elaborate on your point please? All decisions they made that I have pointed out were for the good of the club, its really not there fault the Kenny debacle, they backed him better than any other manager. With the promise he showed when he took over from Hodgson they were probably surprised as anyone to find that Kenny was utterly out of his depth.

Utterly out of his depth? What a load of nonsense to be frank. The team underperformed over a full season in the league, but reached the final of the other two competitions they were involved in. If anything, that performance was so disappointing because of the ridiculously high standard of achievement the man had enjoyed in his first run of management. But it was, relatively speaking, an average performance. Not hapless by any stretch.

opr · 04-03-2014 10:59am

This is pretty impressive. Nov 2012, Rodgers talking about his plans going forward. Goals was the main point which he wanted to increase with a particular focus on the number of goals you need to score to qualify for the CL. He also said they were going to put a huge focus on set pieces to increase the number of goals. I think we're the highest scorers of set pieces in the league?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW0I6GhjKXw

Opr

Agueroooo · 04-03-2014 11:02am

opr wrote: »

This is pretty impressive. Nov 2012, Rodgers talking about his plans going forward. Goals was the main point which he wanted to increase with a particular focus on the number of goals you need to score to qualify for the CL. He also said they were going to put a huge focus on set pieces to increase the number of goals. I think we're the highest scorers of set pieces in the league?

Opr

Thank You!!

I have been looking for that video for weeks, but I couldnt remember exactly when he gave that interview, but I remember the points made.

Francie Barrett · 04-03-2014 11:10am

The financial numbers aren't bad, but they do show that our lack of participation in the Champions League is hurting us badly. Sure, our revenue is growing, but it's growing slower than the likes of Manchester United, Bayern Munich, and Barcelona. That basically means it's getting harder and harder for us to compete with the top European clubs.

Qualification for the CL this year will be huge for us, and while it doesn't automatically put us back on competitive terms with the juggernauts of European football, it should make us as attractive a destination as the likes of Arsenal, Atletico Madrid, Napoli or Dortmund. Until then however, we are distinctly on the third tier of European football in our ability to attract players.

Knex* · 04-03-2014 11:10am

Thing that has impressed me most about Rodgers since he joined, his improvement in all areas and his ability to adapt.

For sure, he still has many of the same strong principals that he did when first joined with that 300 page dossier, but he has proven this season that he can learn from mistakes, and that's crucial.

I even remember last season how frustrated we were at times when Rodgers wouldn't change shape or bring on a sub that we felt was needed. Absolutely no question in my mind this season that he has predominantly done so. Especially in recent weeks.

Now, having a bit more about the squad helps that, but I do think it was a learning curve and he has developed a better understanding and feel for the flow of games.

He has improved our attack remarkably. Now if he can look in the summer to perhaps reign that in a tiny amount in order to bolster our control of games and solidfy out defence, I'll be a happy man.

Some new players added to Rodgers' ability to adapt, learn, and change, and we should hope to see good things.

Not sure I've said it on here, as for ages I was cautiously optimistic but sitting firmly on the fence (I wasn't happy when Rodgers was first signed, for example), I must say he surpassed my expectations this season and I have a lot of faith in the man.

New contract in the summer and we continue to build from what is a solid platform and an impressive season of improvement.

tok9 · 04-03-2014 11:13am

Bloody Suarez letting us down... he needs to get a few more hat tricks if he's going to get 40 goals :P

One against United would be delightful.

Knex* · 04-03-2014 11:14am

tok9 wrote: »

Bloody Suarez letting us down... he needs to get a few more hat tricks if he's going to get 40 goals :P

One against United would be delightful.

Awh man. That would be joyful.

rob316 · 04-03-2014 11:21am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Utterly out of his depth? What a load of nonsense to be frank. The team underperformed over a full season in the league, but reached the final of the other two competitions they were involved in. If anything, that performance was so disappointing because of the ridiculously high standard of achievement the man had enjoyed in his first run of management. But it was, relatively speaking, an average performance. Not hapless by any stretch.

Maybe I'm been a bit harsh and lets not get into the Kenny discussion again, but its hard to argue that he wasn't the manager to take us forward. That was my point, they sacked him and brought in Rodgers, that was a good decision. It was a gamble but I like to think it was a bit more measured than most supporters believe.

billy2012 · 04-03-2014 11:27am

I remember at the start of the season we were talking about player targets in regards to goals. Jokes were made about scoring 100 goals. We can't be that far away??

Agueroooo · 04-03-2014 11:30am

Wage bill ~£135mil which aint huge by PL standards
record revenues
commercial deals up 100%
currently 2nd in the league
best striker(s) in the league

looking good lads - looking very good

or primed for selling.

/ducks for cover.:pac:

rob316 · 04-03-2014 11:32am

You can see why he impressed the owners/board so much, he has that wonderful gift of the gab and his confidence is there for all to see. He is highly regarded in the coaching world it seems and if you ever listen to him on talksport or the like his tactical knowledge and reading of the game is exceptional. His play is always about goals, he knows drab defensive performances don't win games.
He talks a lot about how he wants British players to play the continental way and they can, its just they are not been coached correctly at grassroots level.

I remember when he was Swansea manager and was on MOTD, you couldn't help but be impressed by what he had to say.

Knex* · 04-03-2014 11:33am

Dampener => New stadium renovations to begin.

We really need to be in the CL in order to maintain progress while we take a financial hit upgrading the stadium.

Coincide that with Gerrard potentially retiring, and perhaps Suarez even moving on... And its gonna be tough.

However, I'm enjoying this now no matter where it takes us.

Francie Barrett · 04-03-2014 11:33am

opr wrote: »

Goals was the main point which he wanted to increase with a particular focus on the number of goals you need to score to qualify for the CL./QUOTE]
I used to beat the drum about this. In Kenny's full year, we scored 48 goals. For me, that was what ultimiately sealed Kenny's fate. As of today, with ten games left to play, we've already scored 73 goals. People are having a whinge at the defence, but they aren't seeing the woods for the trees. Look at Tony Pulis' teams - they are watertight defensively, but they they're still never going to get anywhere.

LuckyLloyd · 04-03-2014 11:33am

rob316 wrote: »

Maybe I'm been a bit harsh and lets not get into the Kenny discussion again, but its hard to argue that he wasn't the manager to take us forward. That was my point, they sacked him and brought in Rodgers, that was a good decision. It was a gamble but I like to think it was a bit more measured than most supporters believe.

Your statement was that he was "utterly out of his depth". A ridiculous assessment.

You don't need to enagage in a hyperbolic negative assessment of Dalglish in order to support Rodgers you know. Some people on here would do well to remember that.

murpho999 · 04-03-2014 11:38am

£50m loss shows poor management as it could have been reduced to £9,999,999 if we had sold Suarez.

5starpool · 04-03-2014 11:41am

So is that about 3 years in a row that we have lost 50m or am I missing something? I know those figures are pretty much 18 months old, but despite record revenues, surely they are not that good? Surely those losses, with the others are in breach of FFP, or are the losses (such as those associated with the old stadium) not FFP eligible losses?

I need a Swiss ramble or something for the new figures.

djPSB · 04-03-2014 11:44am

Knex. wrote: »

Dampener => New stadium renovations to begin.

We really need to be in the CL in order to maintain progress while we take a financial hit upgrading the stadium.

Coincide that with Gerrard potentially retiring, and perhaps Suarez even moving on... And its gonna be tough.

However, I'm enjoying this now no matter where it takes us.

There's a good 5 years left in Gerrard

Maybe not at his current level but maybe in a similar way to how Scholes progressed through his 30s.

Actually dreamt last night that Carra made a return due to a centre back injury crisis.

Vanolder · 04-03-2014 11:45am

What a horrible, horrible night.... christ it was bad.....i've never had a night like it.......I don't know if i'll be right for a week........ I dreamt Utd beat us 7-2. FML!

5starpool · 04-03-2014 11:47am

Did anyone else here get a PM from some random dude with 50 posts or so asking whether you'd prefer to win the league this year with Gerrard, or not win it this year, Gerrard retire, and win it the following 2 seasons?

I'm assuming he wasn't just looking for my esteemed opinion, although I'd hardly blame him of course

For the record I went for the less sentimental option B.

djPSB · 04-03-2014 11:53am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Your statement was that he was "utterly out of his depth". A ridiculous assessment.

You don't need to enagage in a hyperbolic negative assessment of Dalglish in order to support Rodgers you know. Some people on here would do well to remember that.

Yes 10000000% correct.

It seems that everytime Rodgers and other managers are discussed, it turns into a Rodgers v Kenny or Rodgers v Rafa debate.

tony1980 · 04-03-2014 11:57am

opr wrote: »

This is pretty impressive. Nov 2012, Rodgers talking about his plans going forward. Goals was the main point which he wanted to increase with a particular focus on the number of goals you need to score to qualify for the CL. He also said they were going to put a huge focus on set pieces to increase the number of goals. I think we're the highest scorers of set pieces in the league?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW0I6GhjKXw

Opr

The set pieces have really impressed me at times, especially Gerrard's delivery, he has gone very Beckhamesque with his crosses from free-kicks!

djPSB · 04-03-2014 12:02pm

tony1980 wrote: »

The set pieces have really impressed me at times, especially Gerrard's delivery, he has gone very Beckhamesque with his crosses from free-kicks!

Gerrard's corners alone are worth £10m

Agueroooo · 04-03-2014 12:03pm

tony1980 wrote: »

The set pieces have really impressed me at times, especially Gerrard's delivery, he has gone very Beckhamesque with his crosses from free-kicks!

do you know what he has just simplified things. that's all

we get in a dangerous position and he delivers a dangerous ball always into the box (6yrd most times)

no more Hollywood passes, down the channel pass, or taking it short.

one system, one tactic , one result. goals !

rob316 · 04-03-2014 12:04pm

5starpool wrote: »

Did anyone else here get a PM from some random dude with 50 posts or so asking whether you'd prefer to win the league this year with Gerrard, or not win it this year, Gerrard retire, and win it the following 2 seasons?

I'm assuming he wasn't just looking for my esteemed opinion, although I'd hardly blame him of course

For the record I went for the less sentimental option B.

Yep I did too, I went for option A. Gerrard has to win that title before he retires, it would be a joy to see him lift it.

Knex* · 04-03-2014 12:09pm

5starpool wrote: »

Did anyone else here get a PM from some random dude with 50 posts or so asking whether you'd prefer to win the league this year with Gerrard, or not win it this year, Gerrard retire, and win it the following 2 seasons?

I'm assuming he wasn't just looking for my esteemed opinion, although I'd hardly blame him of course

For the record I went for the less sentimental option B.

Nope, nobody loves me

I'd probably go for Option A, providing we still have CL football for the 2 years after, and also are actually competing on both fronts.

I know, I'm tampering. But you gotta negotiate or you stand to lose! :P