Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14 Mod warning post#7005

Agueroooo

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

The Guardian says Liverpool's ability to obey Uefa's financial fair play rules in doubt after £49.8 million pre-tax loss for figures to end of May 13.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/04/liverpool-financial-fair-play-50m-annual-loss-accounts?CMP=twt_gu

brevity wrote: »

Ha ha ha. Of all the clubs it would be us wouldn't it.

Augmerson wrote: »

Wtf!

The latest financial results are up to 31st May 2013.

We have secured some major commercial deals since then, and I suspect this is the last set of results that have a legacy element attached.

Raif Severance

50M Loss?

And all the Accountants here said, that we would be making a Profit.

Turtyturd

5starpool wrote: »

Did anyone else here get a PM from some random dude with 50 posts or so asking whether you'd prefer to win the league this year with Gerrard, or not win it this year, Gerrard retire, and win it the following 2 seasons?

I'm assuming he wasn't just looking for my esteemed opinion, although I'd hardly blame him of course

For the record I went for the less sentimental option B.

Yep I got it too.

Also got one last week asking about putting 'The Chosen One' forward in the signing of the season thread....but I don't think he did it.

LiamoSail

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Your statement was that he was "utterly out of his depth". A ridiculous assessment.

You don't need to enagage in a hyperbolic negative assessment of Dalglish in order to support Rodgers you know. Some people on here would do well to remember that.

Extreme opinons of Dalglish are common on both sides. For every "hapless" comment, there's an "all hail king kenny" retort.

His performance as manager in his second spell was poor, and had it been any other manager that oversaw the season and changes in personnel, they'd have rightly been apportioned a far greater degree of criticism then Dalglish.

I don't disagree with your criticism of the hapless comment, but similarly, I don't think describing his second tenure as hapless is in anyway less accurate then many of the worshiping terms used to praise his second spell

LuckyLloyd

5starpool wrote: »

Did anyone else here get a PM from some random dude with 50 posts or so asking whether you'd prefer to win the league this year with Gerrard, or not win it this year, Gerrard retire, and win it the following 2 seasons?

I'm assuming he wasn't just looking for my esteemed opinion, although I'd hardly blame him of course

For the record I went for the less sentimental option B.

Yep. Option A for me. But I'm sentimental. You are old and bitter.

augustus gloop

rob316 wrote: »

Yep I did too, I went for option A. Gerrard has to win that title before he retires, it would be a joy to see him lift it.

to see Stevie G lift the PL trophy would honest to God bring a tear to my fkn eye:pac:

mike65

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

The Guardian says Liverpool's ability to obey Uefa's financial fair play rules in doubt after £49.8 million pre-tax loss for figures to end of May 13.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/04/liverpool-financial-fair-play-50m-annual-loss-accounts?CMP=twt_gu

David Conns peice doesn't - the sub-ed does, I expect a more detailed article later today hopefully open for comments.

Villa also announced their numbers - a 52 million loss. I know which club is better placed to deal that that amount of red ink.

The Champions League income will be a game changer for the finances (even though players will need to be purchased they are assets of course and written down year on year).

Devilman40k

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

The Guardian says Liverpool's ability to obey Uefa's financial fair play rules in doubt after £49.8 million pre-tax loss for figures to end of May 13.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/04/liverpool-financial-fair-play-50m-annual-loss-accounts?CMP=twt_gu

I can't see UEFA financial fair play rules even mentioned in that article

mike65

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

The Guardian says Liverpool's ability to obey Uefa's financial fair play rules in doubt after £49.8 million pre-tax loss for figures to end of May 13.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/04/liverpool-financial-fair-play-50m-annual-loss-accounts?CMP=twt_gu

mike65 wrote: »

David Conns peice doesn't - the sub-ed does, I expect a more detailed article later today hopefully open for comments.

Villa also announced their numbers - a 52 million loss. I know which club is better placed to deal that that amount of red ink.

The Champions League income will be a game changer for the finances (even though players will need to be purchased they are assets of course and written down year on year).

Devilman40k wrote: »

I can't see UEFA financial fair play rules even mentioned in that article

They just updated the article and the sub-headline has been changed, mention of FFP has been removed. As a long time guardanista I'm used to seeing rapid changes and terrible sub-editing.

5live

Devilman40k wrote: »

I can't see UEFA financial fair play rules even mentioned in that article

2nd point after the headline.

'Clubs ability to obey Uefas financial fair play rules in doubt'

klose

billy2012 wrote: »

I remember at the start of the season we were talking about player targets in regards to goals. Jokes were made about scoring 100 goals. We can't be that far away??

If we remain on 3 goals per game which i think is what we have been there or there abouts all season we should surpass 100 league goals just about.

Francie Barrett wrote: »

opr wrote: »

Goals was the main point which he wanted to increase with a particular focus on the number of goals you need to score to qualify for the CL./QUOTE]
I used to beat the drum about this. In Kenny's full year, we scored 48 goals. For me, that was what ultimiately sealed Kenny's fate. As of today, with ten games left to play, we've already scored 73 goals. People are having a whinge at the defence, but they aren't seeing the woods for the trees. Look at Tony Pulis' teams - they are watertight defensively, but they they're still never going to get anywhere.

Funnily enough was on twitter there and lfc just tweeted this inforgraphic.



Kennys season sticks out like a sore thumb, rafas first season too but we can forgive that anyways ill only have fond memories of kenny and his legend status remains the same.

Dickerty

Agueroooo wrote: »

The latest financial results are up to 31st May 2013.

We have secured some major commercial deals since then, and I suspect this is the last set of results that have a legacy element attached.

And doesn't that also involve the removal of a large amount of debt?
What big club does NOT have debt to a bank or large investor?

djPSB

Is there anywhere that offers odds on the PL for next season?

LuckyLloyd

LiamoSail wrote: »

Extreme opinons of Dalglish are common on both sides. For every "hapless" comment, there's an "all hail king kenny" retort.

His performance as manager in his second spell was poor, and had it been any other manager that oversaw the season and changes in personnel, they'd have rightly been apportioned a far greater degree of criticism then Dalglish.

I don't disagree with your criticism of the hapless comment, but similarly, I don't think describing his second tenure as hapless is in anyway less accurate then many of the worshiping terms used to praise his second spell

Hodgson's tenure was hapless.

Dalglish was in charge for a season and a half. In the first half season he oversaw a substantial improvement in league form and recovered to a sixth place finish. In season two we performed excellently in the two cup competitions but were ultimately disappointing in the league with a sharp disimprovement in the second half of the season.

Overall? Average performance with a negative performance trend. "Poor"? I wouldn't say so just as I wouldn't have said he did "well".

Moreover, all his "supporters" on here were arguing for was one more season on the basis of an initial good league run plus strong cup performances. We felt that he had done enough to get more time. That isn't "worshipping" at all imo.

I will admit that this season would be 10 times more enjoyable and meaningful to me if it was under Dalglish. That would have been religious experience territory. But that's another conversation ultimately. In summation:

- Sounness was an unmitigated disaster for numerous reasons, should have been sacked the day after the Sun article;
- Evans did a decent job but was not going to take us to the next level and it was reasonable for the club to change it up;
- Houllier reinstilled a winning mentality and left the club in a better state than he found it however had taken us as far as could;
- Benitez took us to the top of the European table and it is a big 'what if' in terms of where we would be if had survived the ownership change;
- Hodgson was dreadful;
- Dalglish inherited an aging squad with no confidence and got things moving forward, delivered a trophy and could potentially have been given more time. But he was poor in the transfer market and the best league form was the first half of his tenure;
- Rodgers is learning on the job, made numerous tactical and player acquisition mistakes during his first six months but has enjoyed a far stronger year two. Early days, but looks promising;

Each manager needs to be assessed independent of the other.

djPSB

Daglish's biggest problem was that the likes of Spearing, Carroll, Adam, Downing etc. featured way too often for a team that had aspirations of achieving a top 4 finish.

LuckyLloyd

djPSB wrote: »

Daglish's biggest problem was that the likes of Spearing, Carroll, Adam, Downing etc. featured way too often for a team that had aspirations of achieving a top 4 finish.

I think Meireles was a huge loss aswell. The back end of 2010 / 11 was hugely promising in large part because Meireles was playing so well. As the season wore on we badly missed his technical ability and guile.

mike65

Devilman40k wrote: »

I can't see UEFA financial fair play rules even mentioned in that article

mike65 wrote: »

They just updated the article and the sub-headline has been changed, mention of FFP has been removed. As a long time guardanista I'm used to seeing rapid changes and terrible sub-editing.

5live wrote: »

2nd point after the headline.

'Clubs ability to obey Uefas financial fair play rules in doubt'

and its back! The updated article body includes this bit

The £50m loss, which follows £41m reported for a ten-month period to 31 May 2011, appears to put Liverpool's total loss very much higher than the €45m (£37m) total permitted by Uefa for this two-year period under its financial fair play rules. The club, which stated that the figures show it is making "good progress" financially, did not comment on whether it is likely to be considered in breach of FFP when Uefa assesses clubs in the next two months. The rules do, however, include exemptions Premier League clubs expect to rely on in order to pass, including expenditure on youth development, stadium and other infrastructure, which Uefa encourages, and an allowance for players' contracts entered into before the rules came into force in 2010.

In other word nothing to see here.

djPSB

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I think Meireles was a huge loss aswell. The back end of 2010 / 11 was hugely promising in large part because Meireles was playing so well. As the season wore on we badly missed his technical ability and guile.

In Kenny's first half season, we played very fluid football. Meireles was important in the set up no doubt.

Then he went and signed Charlie Adam, Stewart Downing and Carroll was back from injury. Spearing played alot of games once Lucas got injured.

That was the fluidity of the team gone out the window. Not surprising that these players ended up at West Ham and Stoke whos style of football is alien to the way we currently play.

rob316

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Hodgson's tenure was hapless.

Dalglish was in charge for a season and a half. In the first half season he oversaw a substantial improvement in league form and recovered to a sixth place finish. In season two we performed excellently in the two cup competitions but were ultimately disappointing in the league with a sharp disimprovement in the second half of the season.

Overall? Average performance with a negative performance trend. "Poor"? I wouldn't say so just as I wouldn't have said he did "well".

Moreover, all his "supporters" on here were arguing for was one more season on the basis of an initial good league run plus strong cup performances. We felt that he had done enough to get more time. That isn't "worshipping" at all imo.

I will admit that this season would be 10 times more enjoyable and meaningful to me if it was under Dalglish. That would have been religious experience territory. But that's another conversation ultimately. In summation:

- Sounness was an unmitigated disaster for numerous reasons, should have been sacked the day after the Sun article;
- Evans did a decent job but was not going to take us to the next level and it was reasonable for the club to change it up;
- Houllier reinstilled a winning mentality and left the club in a better state than he found it however had taken us as far as could;
- Benitez took us to the top of the European table and it is a big 'what if' in terms of where we would be if had survived the ownership change;
- Hodgson was dreadful;
- Dalglish inherited an aging squad with no confidence and got things moving forward, delivered a trophy and could potentially have been given more time. But he was poor in the transfer market and the best league form was the first half of his tenure;
- Rodgers is learning on the job, made numerous tactical and player acquisition mistakes during his first six months but has enjoyed a far stronger year two. Early days, but looks promising;

Each manager needs to be assessed independent of the other.

That's a good well thought out post I must say. I would have loved nothing more than Kenny to be manager again and lead us to numerous honours but it wasn't meant to be. Its fair to say he was a victim of the times, the owners while I maintain there intentions were good,were new to the game and handing Comolli/Kenny a blank cheque was not wise.
They expected top 4 with such investment and no cup would have saved his job. And the owners were right, its there business/investment and league position is the only thing that will maximise that. He was out of his depth in the league and ultimately that is where he is judged.

NukaCola

rob316 wrote: »

He was out of his depth in the league and ultimately that is where he is judged.

KD had a win percentage of 48.65%
BR has a win percentage of 52.87%

We all agree BR has done a great job, but to say KD was out of his depth is going a bit too far IMO. You cant just take league form into consideration and forget about everything else. If that was the case Rafa's first season at LFC was a failure despite winning the CL.

Tusky

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Hodgson's tenure was hapless.

Dalglish was in charge for a season and a half. In the first half season he oversaw a substantial improvement in league form and recovered to a sixth place finish. In season two we performed excellently in the two cup competitions but were ultimately disappointing in the league with a sharp disimprovement in the second half of the season.

Overall? Average performance with a negative performance trend. "Poor"? I wouldn't say so just as I wouldn't have said he did "well".

Moreover, all his "supporters" on here were arguing for was one more season on the basis of an initial good league run plus strong cup performances. We felt that he had done enough to get more time. That isn't "worshipping" at all imo.

I will admit that this season would be 10 times more enjoyable and meaningful to me if it was under Dalglish. That would have been religious experience territory. But that's another conversation ultimately. In summation:

- Sounness was an unmitigated disaster for numerous reasons, should have been sacked the day after the Sun article;
- Evans did a decent job but was not going to take us to the next level and it was reasonable for the club to change it up;
- Houllier reinstilled a winning mentality and left the club in a better state than he found it however had taken us as far as could;
- Benitez took us to the top of the European table and it is a big 'what if' in terms of where we would be if had survived the ownership change;
- Hodgson was dreadful;
- Dalglish inherited an aging squad with no confidence and got things moving forward, delivered a trophy and could potentially have been given more time. But he was poor in the transfer market and the best league form was the first half of his tenure;
- Rodgers is learning on the job, made numerous tactical and player acquisition mistakes during his first six months but has enjoyed a far stronger year two. Early days, but looks promising;

Each manager needs to be assessed independent of the other.

Very good post Lloyd. Can't argue with any of it really.

K-9

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Utterly out of his depth? What a load of nonsense to be frank. The team underperformed over a full season in the league, but reached the final of the other two competitions they were involved in. If anything, that performance was so disappointing because of the ridiculously high standard of achievement the man had enjoyed in his first run of management. But it was, relatively speaking, an average performance. Not hapless by any stretch.

Unfortunately that last half season just was so under whelming. I'd have given him another season but with the benefit of hindsight it probably was the right thing to do. Rodgers came in and straight away got rid of Carroll which was a huge problem for the team. Without going over the Dempsey debacle it was the right thing to do in the long term.

opr wrote: »

This is pretty impressive. Nov 2012, Rodgers talking about his plans going forward. Goals was the main point which he wanted to increase with a particular focus on the number of goals you need to score to qualify for the CL. He also said they were going to put a huge focus on set pieces to increase the number of goals. I think we're the highest scorers of set pieces in the league?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW0I6GhjKXw

Opr

Can't watch that video, is that the one when he states the amount of goals needed? Think a few of us including myself might have scoffed at that at the time considering how we were so dependent on Luis at the time!

Hangballlouie

Vanolder wrote: »

What a horrible, horrible night.... christ it was bad.....i've never had a night like it.......I don't know if i'll be right for a week........ I dreamt Utd beat us 7-2. FML!

Did you drop an acid before going to bed or something?

Paulegend

NukaCola wrote: »

KD had a win percentage of 48.65%
BR has a win percentage of 52.87%

We all agree BR has done a great job, but to say KD was out of his depth is going a bit too far IMO. You cant just take league form into consideration and forget about everything else. If that was the case Rafa's first season at LFC was a failure despite winning the CL.

to be fair there is a huge difference in what Rafa won compared to what Kenny won on his second stint.

if Rafa was knocked out of the champions league early in 04/05 that year would have been considered a disaster

Kennys latest stint was a disaster and yes he was out of his depth. he looked like he under coached. he let his players go out and do what they do on the field as oppose to ordering their every movement. it didnt work. when it didnt work he had no way of changing things other than making subs. the players he bought where poor, the tactics he used where poor. his season was poor

kenny got to the league cup final and won. he got to the fa cup final. he had a poor league and finished 8th

Rafas first season he got to the league cup final. he won the champions league and finished 5th

Rafa's first season was astronomical compared to kennys

whatawaster

5starpool wrote: »

So is that about 3 years in a row that we have lost 50m or am I missing something? I know those figures are pretty much 18 months old, but despite record revenues, surely they are not that good? Surely those losses, with the others are in breach of FFP, or are the losses (such as those associated with the old stadium) not FFP eligible losses?

I need a Swiss ramble or something for the new figures.

We made an operating profit of €15 million for the year and a loss of €60 million on “Player amortisation and trading”.

What makes up that 60 million is anyone’s guess. There is a 12 million impairment of player registration. My guess is that is a 12 million write-down on Andy Carroll, seeing as he was sold after the year-end, probably for a lot less than his book value.

Kuyt, Aquilani, Maxi, Bellamy, Adam, Cole, Doni and Aurelio all left in the 12 months that these accounts relate to. Lord knows what kind of payoffs, write-offs etc are going on here.

Hangballlouie

Rafa and Kenny are club legends, Rodgers has a long way to go to be even on their level.

He is doing a fantastic job at the moment and he could join them on that list but at the moment it's guess work how his Liverpool career will turn out.

Kenny and Rafa have nothing to prove, they've cemented their legacy.

NukaCola

Paulegend wrote: »

kenny got to the league cup final and won. he got to the fa cup final. he had a poor league and finished 8th

Rafas first season he got to the league cup final. he won the champions league and finished 5th

Rafa's first season was astronomical compared to kennys

The poster wanted to exclude cup runs so was basing it on league form.

Rafa finished 5th with 58 points. Kenny finished 8th with 52 points. Nothing astronomical there to be honest apart from how competitive the league has gotten.

K-9

Our Year wrote: »

Those accounts say the book value of the players is 120m, is that contracts or sale value. Sale value would have to be higher what with Louise.



There are some very bad decisions in there.

Carroll, Downing, Suarez, Allen, Sturridge and Henderson would more or less make up £120 Million on their own so I'd say that figure takes account of contract right downs.

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

The Guardian says Liverpool's ability to obey Uefa's financial fair play rules in doubt after £49.8 million pre-tax loss for figures to end of May 13.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/04/liverpool-financial-fair-play-50m-annual-loss-accounts?CMP=twt_gu

I linked to this blog before, guy seems to know his stuff and has pretty detailed break downs, his projections for the accounts just published was pretty spot on.

Basically he expects to see an improvement of £34/35 Million (mainly due to the new TV deal) so we should be fine. Even still these accounts and last years will still be below the losses allowed, clubs are allowed deductions for youth and community spending and an allowance for players contracts before June 2010:

Liverpool FC and FFP

For LFC to be able to qualify for a UEFA competition in 2014/2015 season (Champions League or Europa) it has to come fairly close to breaking even over the two football seasons 2011/2012 and 2012/2013. The club cannot incur cumulative losses of more than €45M (£37.7M) in those two years and the owners will have to inject equity for an equivalent amount to cumulative losses above €5M (£4.2M) over those two years.

LFC has incurred £40.5M loss in 2011/2012 and have not released its financial results for 2012/13 which were projected to be a pre-tax loss of around £28M. The cumulative loss is thus around £68.5M (i.e. well above UEFA’s permitted £37.7M). However, owing to a number of permitted exclusions, Liverpool will still pass the FFP Break Even test. Youth and community spending is excluded, as is any spending on financing stadium development as well as goodwill amortization.

As some of these figures aren’t shown separately in the statutory accounts, we have to rely on some educated guesswork. Other analysts have assumed around £10M a season for youth and community spend plus £3m a season for infrastructure financing – working on these ‘markers’, the club would report a Break Even Deficit of £40.6M. Even with a Break Even Deficit of £40.6M, LFC would still pass the FFP test. If losses are trending in the right direction (as Liverpool’s are), UEFA permit clubs to deduct the cost of wages paid in 2011/12 to players on pre June 2010 contracts. In Liverpool’s case this will easily be enough to push the Break Even Deficit below £37.7m. Those pre June 2010 players included in these calculations were Pepe Reina, Glen Johnson, Jamie Carragher, Daniel Agger, Martin Skrtel, Lucas Leiva, Dirk Kuyt, Steven Gerrard and Maxi Rodriguez.

Paulegend

NukaCola wrote: »

The poster wanted to exclude cup runs so was basing it on league form.

Rafa finished 5th with 58 points. Kenny finished 8th with 52 points. Nothing astronomical there to be honest apart from how competitive the league has gotten.

6 points right now is the difference between 5th and 2nd............. it is a huge difference.

i get what your saying though which is fair enough

anyway we cant have any dissing of the King today

murpho999

Dalglish out of his depth, heard it all now.

Won league with two clubs?

Given time he could have been successful, Comoli's transfer policy had a lot to do with his downfall too.

He turned the club back on the right path after Hodgson disaster.

LuckyLloyd

hangballlouie wrote: »

Rafa and Kenny are club legends, Rodgers has a long way to go to be even on their level.

He is doing a fantastic job at the moment and he could join them on that list but at the moment it's guess work how his Liverpool career will turn out.

Kenny and Rafa have nothing to prove, they've cemented their legacy.

Some of the posting in here about Dalglish during 2012 will stick in my craw for a long, long time. Many were able to objectively state why they felt he needed to be moved on. But some used disgraceful language and tone in their assessment of him. A lack of respect and seeming lack of understanding of this club's history and legacy. The hyperbolic post that kicked off this discussion is an extension of that imo.

Agueroooo

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Some of the posting in here about Dalglish during 2012 will stick in my craw for a long, long time. Many were able to objectively state why they felt he needed to be moved on. But some used disgraceful language and tone in their assessment of him. A lack of respect and seeming lack of understanding of this club's history and legacy. The hyperbolic post that kicked off this discussion is an extension of that imo.

Yep but I think the divide was obvious in that it was mainly the younger supporter calling for his head with the more citric type post

and the older poster (who grew up with Kenny) doing all the defending of the man.

but those who lived and enjoyed his successful spell at the club that slated him last time around I will never understand.

LuckyLloyd

Agueroooo wrote: »

but those who lived and enjoyed his successful spell at the club that slated him last time around I will never understand.

Yep

Hangballlouie

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Some of the posting in here about Dalglish during 2012 will stick in my craw for a long, long time. Many were able to objectively state why they felt he needed to be moved on. But some used disgraceful language and tone in their assessment of him. A lack of respect and seeming lack of understanding of this club's history and legacy. The hyperbolic post that kicked off this discussion is an extension of that imo.

Kenny was player/manager at my first game as a kid and I will always defend him and it is hard to argue against that he is the number 1 person in the clubs history. I was undecided if I wanted him to go that summer and could understand both arguments, but would never disrespect the man. He gave me childhood memories that I will never forget and he gave my son his first cup final in 2012. Maybe it is a generational thing the lack of respect?

Someone said it earlier that there is no need to use Kenny and Rafa to put over how well BR is doing this season. Couldn't have put it better myself.

noodler

It wasn't just Kenny's results and transfer activity that attracted criticism.

There were a couple of off-the-field issues as well in fairness.

Hangballlouie

noodler wrote: »

It wasn't just Kenny's results and transfer activity that attracted criticism.

There were a couple of off-the-field issues as well in fairness.

Like defending the club? fcuk off with that nonsense.

I loved that he didn't give a bollix about anything but the club and defended it to the end as he will always do.

Yeah the t-shirts were a silly idea but I blame the club for any issues it faced during the Suarez/Evra affair. They didn't back him and he was left defending the club on his own.

noodler

hangballlouie wrote: »

Like defending the club? fcuk off with that nonsense.

I loved that he didn't give a bollix about anything but the club and defended it to the end as he will always do.

Yeah the t-shirts were a silly idea but I blame the club for any issues it faced during the Suarez/Evra affair. They didn't back him and he was left defending the club on his own.

How do you manage to work "fcuk off with that nonsense" into a reply and yet concede that at least one of his actions was silly?

Its like you started off explosive but calmed somewhat as your post progressed.



EDIT: This is a prime example of the extremes with which some people view Keny's reign. A simple comment from me that there were some off the field issues (As most acknowledge) is met with a "fcuk off".

Hangballlouie

noodler wrote: »

How do you manage to work "fcuk off with that nonsense" into a reply and yet concede that at least one of his actions was silly?

Its like you started off explosive but calmed somewhat as your post progressed.

I'm bipolar.

smileyj1987

hangballlouie wrote: »

Like defending the club? fcuk off with that nonsense.

I loved that he didn't give a bollix about anything but the club and defended it to the end as he will always do.

Yeah the t-shirts were a silly idea but I blame the club for any issues it faced during the Suarez/Evra affair. They didn't back him and he was left defending the club on his own.

Exactly ! The club let him down in the end . There was no direction from the top of the club to say we just take what ever the FA dishes out or we defend the player .
Kenny as manager was a great period for the club . The whole club got a lift when he was manager . No other man could have taken the job after Roy . The club needed Kenny to take charge and lift the players and fans .

rob316

How is it a lack of respect to say he was out of his depth?
He was out of management for a long time before he came back, the game had moved on a lot.
I have huge respect for the man and all he did in the past. Everything he does is for the good of the club.

There's a difference between criticism and lack of respect.

Paulegend

murpho999 wrote: »

Dalglish out of his depth, heard it all now.

Won league with two clubs?

Given time he could have been successful, Comoli's transfer policy had a lot to do with his downfall too.

He turned the club back on the right path after Hodgson disaster.

i think when he came back it united the fans for the first time since Rafa's great season. it was needed. the way he did it was amazing. he answered the phone accepted the job and flew straight to liverpool from a holiday he was on in dubai. then he took the reigns the following day for the game against united and was unlucky not to get something from it.

with a new confidence the team went on to actually do pretty well in the league considering the amazing start to the campaign by the "un-chosen one". ...... but then kenny was given the job on a permanent basis. it was perhaps an unwise decision. now i love kenny. Gerrard Carra Fowler and Rush all aside Kenny was my favourite player of all time.

love the guy. he is such a proper club guy. he made a millionaires job look like it was a job done by a guy heavily involved in the community managing his local football team. thats not a bad thing. he made it seem like the job was been done because he wanted to do it and not because he was paid to. that is the difference between men like him and men like Jose or Pep.

but kenny had been out of the football fraternity for about a decade when he took control of liverpool. since his last job the game had changed

in kennys day (pre second stint)

• subs where used just to put fresh legs on the field
• players and management went for a pint after the game. even smoked on the side lines
• tactics where variations of 442 with a strong striker/fast striker partnership
• everyone trained the same way
• the players where left to do the job on the pitch

in modern football

• subs are now used as tactical decisions
• players and management dont drink or smoke
• tactics are all over the place. some mangers have such detailed tactics that we could be here all day and not get through one example
• now there is a false 9, false 10, inside forward, outside center mid, trequartistas, half backs, defensive wingers etc
• everyone is on special diets and special training routines
• most players are told where to even step when they are on the pitch. some managers (rafa for example) liked to tell players what to do for the full 90 mins. he was like a conductor conducting his orchestra of players rather than the old approach of leaving the players to it.

Kenny coming back might not have been such a big deal to us fans (in terms of a negative) but Kenny was outdated as a manager

the things we remember are

kenny dropping everything and jumping straight into the dug out when most managers would have sat in the stands for a game or two to access what they had.

kenny uniting the fans and the club. bringing back a song to our ever quietening anfield.



i just wish that after his 6 months spell in charge we just found a replacement. then he would have gone down as the man who came back and saved us from Roy.

but we will still always love King Kenny. happy birthday kenny YNWA

smileyj1987

rob316 wrote: »

How is it a lack of respect to say he was out of his depth?
He was out of management for a long time before he came back, the game had moved on a lot and his transfers players.

We all love Kenny that goes without saying.

Out of his depth ? He was the last manager of LFC to win a trophy . Arsene wenger has gone 9 years at the same club with out a trophy . There are plenty of managers currently at clubs who haven't won a trophy in their career it took Kenny a little over a year to do that .

Hangballlouie

noodler wrote: »

How do you manage to work "fcuk off with that nonsense" into a reply and yet concede that at least one of his actions was silly?

Its like you started off explosive but calmed somewhat as your post progressed.



EDIT: This is a prime example of the extremes with which some people view Keny's reign. A simple comment from me that there were some off the field issues (As most acknowledge) is met with a "fcuk off".

List them and explain how they were Kenny's fault.

5live

Its going to be a long break, isn't it?:(

noodler

hangballlouie wrote: »

List them and explain how they were Kenny's fault.

Again?

Jesus, have we just hit a time warp?

TheGoldenAges

5live wrote: »

Its going to be a long break, isn't it?:(

I still think Kess should have closed the thread and opened the United match thread :rolleyes:

Hangballlouie

noodler wrote: »

Again?

Jesus, have we just hit a time warp?

take it to PM then, you said there was off the field issues and I asked you to explain what they were and how they were Kenny's fault.

Don't post it here if you don't want to bore everyone else. BTW you are the one who brought it up, I'm asking you to back up that statement with facts.

If you can, I will hold my hands up.

Knex*

5live wrote: »

Its going to be a long break, isn't it?:(

Worse than an international break... Almost.

noodler

hangballlouie wrote: »

take it to PM then, you said there was off the field issues and I asked you to explain what they were and how they were Kenny's fault.

Don't post it here if you don't want to bore everyone else. BTW you are the one who brought it up, I'm asking you to back up that statement with facts.

If you can, I will hold my hands up.

Some things are taken as known, they have been discussed years ago. Just because I alluded to it doesn't mean it should require a full-scale explanation. Many things are mentioned in posts without requiring the rehashing of 3-year old arguments.

I think Kenny handled the racism/Suarez thing very poorly, the t-shirts, the interview after the handshake snub etc and that the image of the club suffered badly as a result. You clearly blame the club.

It has been a couple of years now - I am not going to chnage your mind and you are not going to change mine.


Back to my original (and reasonable conservative) point though, it does need to be recognised that Kenny had some off-the-field issues when analysing his reign imo.

Turtyturd

Paulegend wrote: »

i think when he came back it united the fans for the first time since Rafa's great season. it was needed. the way he did it was amazing. he answered the phone accepted the job and flew straight to liverpool from a holiday he was on in dubai. then he took the reigns the following day for the game against united and was unlucky not to get something from it.

with a new confidence the team went on to actually do pretty well in the league considering the amazing start to the campaign by the "un-chosen one". ...... but then kenny was given the job on a permanent basis. it was perhaps an unwise decision. now i love kenny. Gerrard Carra Fowler and Rush all aside Kenny was my favourite player of all time.

love the guy. he is such a proper club guy. he made a millionaires job look like it was a job done by a guy heavily involved in the community managing his local football team. thats not a bad thing. he made it seem like the job was been done because he wanted to do it and not because he was paid to. that is the difference between men like him and men like Jose or Pep.

but kenny had been out of the football fraternity for about a decade when he took control of liverpool. since his last job the game had changed

in kennys day (pre second stint)

• subs where used just to put fresh legs on the field
• players and management went for a pint after the game. even smoked on the side lines
• tactics where variations of 442 with a strong striker/fast striker partnership
• everyone trained the same way
• the players where left to do the job on the pitch

in modern football

• subs are now used as tactical decisions
• players and management dont drink or smoke
• tactics are all over the place. some mangers have such detailed tactics that we could be here all day and not get through one example
• now there is a false 9, false 10, inside forward, outside center mid, trequartistas, half backs, defensive wingers etc
• everyone is on special diets and special training routines
• most players are told where to even step when they are on the pitch. some managers (rafa for example) liked to tell players what to do for the full 90 mins. he was like a conductor conducting his orchestra of players rather than the old approach of leaving the players to it.

Kenny coming back might not have been such a big deal to us fans (in terms of a negative) but Kenny was outdated as a manager

the things we remember are

kenny dropping everything and jumping straight into the dug out when most managers would have sat in the stands for a game or two to access what they had.

kenny uniting the fans and the club. bringing back a song to our ever quietening anfield.



i just wish that after his 6 months spell in charge we just found a replacement. then he would have gone down as the man who came back and saved us from Roy.

but we will still always love King Kenny. happy birthday kenny YNWA

This is really selling the man short imo.