Paris Bakery gone soon to make way for shopping centre

Qualitymark

Here's an extract from the first of 60 results for the query "Moore Street" in those records the Bureau of Military History has put online (not all its records are online). This is from Captain Liam Tannam:

There was grave danger that the [GPO] ceiling would now collapse bringing a burning mass down on top of us. Although I did not see what was going on at the Henry Street side door at that time, I learned that O'Rahilly bad left the building with about 35 men in an effort to open the way of retreat through Moore Street. At this point I thought a song would be a good thing and I sang the "Soldiers' Song", accompanied by a Cumann na mBan girl named Madge Fagan. Shortly after this I went to the Henry Street door to see what was happening and I saw moat of H.Q. staff there, the two Pearses, Plunkett, MacDermott, Tom Clarke.

PH Pearse called me. He informed me that O'Rahilly had not returned and he asked me would I take some Volunteers and see what I could do in the way of securing a place to which the garrison could be evacuated in the direction of Moore Street. I thought a small party would be best and I pointed to the nearest seven men. I had an officer's sword which we had captured earlier and in order to put on a show I jumped out into the street, waved it over my head and shouted "Come on". I did not know the position at that time as to how far the enemy might have penetrated and I expected to come under fire and to my great surprise did not.

We rushed across the road to Henry Place and at the end of Henry Place turned the corner left and when we showed up opposite Moore Lane we came under fire from troops apparently in Parnell Street or some little distance up Moore Lane. We stooped and ran across. The only damage done was one man's belt was cut through with a bullet.

The corner house of Moore Street (now occupied by Bacon Shops Ltd) seemed the best place that could be got especially as my mind was then running on the imminent danger of the collapse of the ceiling in the GPO. I instructed the men to enter at once and dashed back myself to the angle of Henry Place. The reason I did that was I did not feel like asking any of the Volunteers to cross under fire again at Moore Lane; and then dashed in the direction of the GPO. The side door seemed rather crowded and I shouted at once "Come on", and the garrison poured out into Henry Place with no semblance of order.

I was searching through the men for Pearse. I eventually found him and accompanied him back down to the angle of Henry Place. I showed him where my men were and pointed out to him that there was very heavy firing on a white-washed cottage which faced Moore Lane. He then told me to take what men I needed and act as rearguard. I took three men and we stationed ourselves at the junction of Henry Place and Henry Street. I learned afterwards that either Pearse had taken me up wrong or the person to whom he had issued instructions took him up wrong and it was understood through this error that there was heavy firing from the white-washed cottage instead of on the white-washed cottage and that about a dozen men were detailed to charge the white-washed cottage in order to clear it and a number of these were wounded by the firing from Moore Lane before they gained an entrance.

I also heard that when they did gain an entrance they found a .45 service revolver, the remains of a meal at a table. The assumption was that some enemy agent had been using it. Eventually the last of the garrison passed from my sight.

I could hear tremendous crashes in the GPO, and the heat was so intense that I had to retreat down Henry Place, bit by bit. There were a couple of tenement houses in Henry Place, and I thought it would be a good idea to occupy a couple of windows in them. The doors of these two houses were locked, and I turned the corner of the angle, entered by a stable of O'Brien's Mineral Water factory, in an attempt to get into the houses from the rere.

I climbed up an outside stairs thinking I was getting in the general direction of the houses, and entered the door. The lurid flames from the burning buildings that moment flashed up and disclosed about a dozen heads ranged along the room and apparently without bodies. I put my hand on something hairy and nearly died with fright. I then found it was a workshop belonging to Drago, a hairdresser & wig maker. I then heard a voice say "I surrender. Don't shoot", but I couldn't see anything. A man advanced from the back of the room with beads in his hand. He was in Volunteer uniform, middle aged. I calmed him down and we descended the stairs together. I then went back to Henry Place. The two men who had entered O'Brien's with me had disappeared, but a third man waved to me from the post in Moore Street. A barricade had been thrown across by the retreating garrison at the head of Moore Lane.

I joined him and found that the garrison was engaged in breaking through the walls of this block in the direction of Parnell Street. I reported to Joe Plunkett what had taken place. I must mention at this point that the corner of the Henry Street/Moore Street block had begun to burn. Plunkett then said: "You can now take turns with the squad of men in breaking through the walls with the others." I was rather exhausted and hungry and the only thing I could get to eat was a raw egg and a square of Chiver's jelly. I ate this and then made my way through several holes until I came to where men were working. I got some men and proceeded with the work allocated to me.

A curious thing occurred here about the middle of the Moore Street block through which we were boring - I had got through one wall having handed over picks and crowbars to a fresh gang. I dropped on a floor under a table to be out of the way and noticed a horse rug rolled up. I thought I should cover myself with this and when I unrolled it I found it had the name of the horse embroidered on it. The name was "Irish Volunteer". It was owned by a car owner named McGurk who was known as the "Brave Dublin Jarvey" because he had saved a number of people from drowning.

When we got as far as Hanlon's Fish Shop I saw a number of our wounded lying about. They were quite cheerful although in some cases they were wounded through the lungs. There was one British soldier there, shot through the thigh, and he was moaning and groaning. This was a fellow who had been given the opportunity of leaving the General Post Office with the other prisoners on Friday night but had been afraid to do so in case they would be shot down.

The next thing I remember is hearing that Seán McLoughlin on the strength of his knowing the district very well, was instructed to get the remainder of our forces to, I believe, Williams & Woods factory across Parnell Street into Kings Inns Street, that being the next strongest building within easy reach. It was proposed that 18 men with fixed bayonets under the command of Captain George Plunkett should assemble in the yard of Kelly's Fish Shop, suddenly emerge into what is now known as O'Rahilly Parade, turn left and then right and charge the barricade held by the British at the Parnell Street end of Moore Street. There was no proper way of covering this charge and I personally thought it was doomed to failure. I remember George Plunkett getting these men ready to go. He had to select men who had rifles on which bayonets could be fitted and he had to collect some bayonets from Volunteers whose rifles they did not fit for this purpose.

At that time I heard no talk of surrender. I sought a brief rest on a bed in Kelly's house alongside Tom Clarke. It seemed to me I had just laid my back down on the bed when I was shaken up by, I think, MW O'Reilly, who said I was wanted in Headquarters room. I am unable to state if Tom Clarke accompanied me there.

In the room I saw Joe Plunkett, Seán MacDermott, Willie Pearse, Diarmuid Lynch, Michael Staines and others whose names I cannot recollect at the moment. Connolly was lying on a stretcher in the room. This may have been another room in Kelly's house or a room in the house next door to Kelly's. MW O'Reilly told us to divest ourselves of our arms and ammunition and told us we were to take Commandant General Connolly to Dublin Castle Hospital. We still heard nothing about a surrender.

Four men were detailed to carry Connolly. The names are Paddy Byrne, Seamus Devoy, Michael Nugent and Tallon, Michael, I think. The three officers were Diarmuid Lynch, Michael Staines and myself. Willie Pearse preceded us downstairs, opened the door and exposed a white flag. We got a signal from the end of the street and we marched and proceeded towards Parnell Street. Standing in the lane opposite O'Rahilly Parade, ie on the other side of Moore Street [this lane is now blocked off since the Ilac Centre was built] was a soldier with a Mills bomb in his hand. Lying partly around the corner of O'Rahilly Parade as well as I can remember, partly on its face was the body of O'Rahilly. I thought I saw marks of bullets from the left hip to the right shoulder.

The barricade at the Parnell Street end of Moore Street was simply crammed with British soldiers bending over it and more standing behind them again and on it were two machine guns. Facing up Cole's Lane - it runs parallel with Moore Street - was a piece of artillery, probably a 4.7. Every house in Parnell Street was crammed with British soldiers and an overflow of the troops were lying down on the paths. Just around the corner of Moore Street towards the Parnell Monument, a couple of yards or so, we were searched.

Having literally obeyed the order to divest myself of arms, I had not removed the documents in my pocket - the documents were the Mobilisation Order for Easter Monday, the Demobilisation Order of the day before, a leaflet showing the equipment we carried, the Order issued to me as officer in charge Reis's and the DBC. Whether I carried Eoin MacNeill's letter to Father MacMahon or not, I am uncertain, as I had been showing it to quite a number of people during the week.

Two rounds of .38 ammunition were found in the corner of my tunic pocket and a Captain made a great fuss of this, but was silenced by a Major whom I later heard referred to as Major Wilks or Walsh, I am not sure which. We were then brought to the centre of the road and ordered to march in the direction of the Parnell Monument. We were surrounded by 30/50 soldiers with fixed bayonets. Of course, Connolly was being carried by the four men. We proceeded across by the Parnell Monument and into the next portion of Parnell Street and halted directly opposite Tom Clarke's shop, a newsagency & tobacconist. I understand that Headquarters of the British units operating against our post was operating there.

A couple of officers left us, entered that building and returned, and we were ordered to about turn and proceed back along by the end of Moore Street along Parnell Street through Capel Street across Essex Bridge through Parliament Street and through the upper gate of the Castle, ie in Castle Street. As we passed through Parnell Street and Capel Street every house in these streets seemed to be occupied and masses of soldiers and officers were reclining in the road and looking out of windows. I took no notice of the regiment. Connolly was a heavy man and the four worn-out men carrying him were quite unable to do so without help, and during that march three of us, officers, took turns carrying him.

Although Connolly was in great pain he took it all smiling, and said to our lads, "Boys, you were great". When we entered the Upper Castle Yard we made a left wheel and halted. Some soldiers who were knocking around the yard assumed a very threatening attitude. One of them belonging to an Irish Regiment made an attempt to get at us with a bayonet in his hand; of course he was prevented by the escort. Connolly then was taken from us and brought into the Castle Hospital and we were immediately marched through the archway into the Lower Castle Yard, turned right and finally arrived in the guard room of Ship Street Barracks, and we were bundled in together with about 15 or 20 men of all descriptions. Some were Volunteers, some from the Citizen Army and some looters, and I met a member of my own Company, a doctor called O'Donoghue (now a Dispensary MOH in Kerry)…

expectationlost

alastair wrote: »

But there's no shopping centre planned for there, is there? It's Moore street under discussion.

yes there is, and he didn't say it bombarded he said he survived bombardment

alastair

expectationlost wrote: »

yes there is, and he didn't say it bombarded he said he survived bombardment

The only way it could have survived bombardment is if it was actually subject to bombardment. Otherwise every building in the county has 'survived bombardment'. Has your house 'survived bombardment'? Nope - nor has mine. Let's face facts - he was talking out of his hat.

alastair

Qualitymark wrote: »

Here's an extract from the first of 60 results for the query "Moore Street" in those records the Bureau of Military History has put online (not all its records are online). This is from Captain Liam Tannam:

So, let's see - no artillery fired, no 'bombardment', no significant military engagement of any kind (aside from rebels shooting each other by accident across from Moore Lane), no surrender location, no significance to the buildings other than an ad-hoc route to another destination. All in all a peripheral location to the events of the rising, and far less significant than the GPO or Kilmainham Gaol.

Qualitymark

alastair wrote: »

So, let's see - no artillery fired, no 'bombardment', no significant military engagement of any kind (aside from rebels shooting each other by accident across from Moore Lane), no surrender location, no significance to the buildings other than an ad-hoc route to another destination. All in all a peripheral location to the events of the rising, and far less significant than the GPO or Kilmainham Gaol.

Heh!

expectationlost

alastair wrote: »

The only way it could have survived bombardment is if it was actually subject to bombardment. Otherwise every building in the county has 'survived bombardment'. Has your house 'survived bombardment'? Nope - nor has mine. Let's face facts - he was talking out of his hat.

o'connell street was bombarded, moore street is on that block.

alastair

expectationlost wrote: »

o'connell street was bombarded, moore street is on that block.

No-one mentioned a block. What Adams said was 'buildings that survived British bombardment". They're no such thing. None of the buildings were bombarded. The west side of upper O'Connell street escaped the worst of damage, as any images of the aftermath will confirm. So if the 'block' comprises the west side of upper O'Connell street, Parnell street, Henry street, and Moore street, then the entire block wasn't bombarded either.


Some buildings at the intersection of Henry street, Moore street, and Moore lane were destroyed by fire, spreading from the GPO, after the rebels moved onto Moore street, but they weren't bombarded.

expectationlost

this is similar situation to the Paris Bakery, the Factory an old warehosue on the grand canal docks used for people involved in the film industry is now being evicted by nama/treasury holdings http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/why-evict-the-factory-because-the-arts-have-no-place-in-ireland-1.1759153

Isay if you want to be allowed to use derelict buildings for cheap, move out when they ask you, when the space will no longer be left empty by the owner. otherwise nobody will give you a space if you make a stink when they ask you to leave

nb. the Factory got first year rent free

expectationlost

alastair wrote: »

No-one mentioned a block. What Adams said was 'buildings that survived British bombardment". They're no such thing. None of the buildings were bombarded. The west side of upper O'Connell street escaped the worst of damage, as any images of the aftermath will confirm. So if the 'block' comprises the west side of upper O'Connell street, Parnell street, Henry street, and Moore street, then the entire block wasn't bombarded either.


Some buildings at the intersection of Henry street, Moore street, and Moore lane were destroyed by fire, spreading from the GPO, after the rebels moved onto Moore street, but they weren't bombarded.

was the gpo bombarded?

http://www.nli.ie/1916/pdf/8.pdf Record of decision to surrender in Pearse’s hand. The decision was agreed in Hanlon’s fish shop, 16 Moore Street. It was written on a sheet of cardboard
possibly taken from the frame of a picture. (Ms. 15,453).

alastair

expectationlost wrote: »

was the gpo bombarded?

Yes it was, but it's not any of the buildings Gerry was talking about, nor it it on the same block for that matter. It's already a commemorative location for the rising, with a larger museum planned for the centenary. The GPO makes absolute sense as a focal building of the rising, Moore street doesn't.

Moore street wasn't the location for the surrender - that was Parnell street. Making up their mind to surrender in the fish shop hasn't really got the same historical significance.

Qualitymark

@alastair is coming at this from a unionist viewpoint.

Read the witness statements, and make up your own mind.

alastair

Qualitymark wrote: »

@alastair is coming at this from a unionist viewpoint.

LOL. You're obviously pretty desperate to avoid the facts of the debate. I'm coming at this from a realistic viewpoint, nothing more.

Qualitymark wrote: »

Read the witness statements, and make up your own mind.

About what? The witness statements just support every point I've made.

Of course Moore street is peripheral. It wasn't the location of the proclamation, it wasn't' the site of any great military exchange, it wasn't the location of the surrender (that was Parnell street), and it was pure accident that they ended up there when the rising ran out of steam.

expectationlost

tick tock, NAMA set to give €5 million to a Maple 10 developer for a project on Dublin's Moore Street http://www.newstalk.ie/NAMA-set-to-give-5-million-for-project-on-Dublins-Moore-Street

NAMA currently have possession of lands, which include the Moore Street Monument.

in name only http://www.14-17moorestprojectplan.com/

expectationlost

mary fitzpatrick ff before she met the minister

Fitzpatrick calls for Govt to ensure Moore Street National Monument Museum is in place by 2016 - See more at: http://www.noodls.com/view/20A5E43AC3911760C5FE034698FFB854E7EEBEBE?2424xxx1398258400#sthash.jIufRieQ.dpuf

after she met the minister,

NAMA to make €5 million available to Moore Street Monument – Fitzpatrick FF http://www.fiannafail.ie/news/entry/10968/#.U1fsHndVP7A.twitter

fitzpatrick wants the museum publically run.

Cllr Fitzpatrick said “I was encouraged by the Minister's response to my suggestion that, when completed, the Museum and Interpretive Center will be publicly-ran by Dublin City Council

groupie photo https://twitter.com/votemaryfitz/status/458934914940174337

Sinn Fein

Government cannot be allowed oversee destruction of Moore Street – Sandra McLellan TD http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/29687#.U1fUTue01y0.twitter

-

Letter to ‘Moore Street Traders’ from Gary Gannon -Independent -North Inner City http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2014/03/27/letter-to-moore-street-traders-from-gary-gannon-independent-north-inner-city/

alastair

expectationlost wrote: »

Sinn Fein

Government cannot be allowed oversee destruction of Moore Street – Sandra McLellan TD http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/29687#.U1fUTue01y0.twitter

At least they've dropped the whole 'buildings that survived bombardment' thing.

expectationlost

alastair wrote: »

At least they've dropped the whole 'buildings that survived bombardment' thing.

they havn't.

alastair

expectationlost wrote: »

they havn't.

They just forgot to mention it here? Ah well, I look forward to additional comedic errors about the history of the 'revolutionary quarter' then.

Qualitymark

Nama is giving €5m to the Maple 10 developer to preserve Moore Street http://www.thejournal.ie/1919-moore-street-1430014-Apr2014/

expectationlost

Qualitymark wrote: »

Nama is giving €5m to the Maple 10 developer to preserve Moore Street http://www.thejournal.ie/1919-moore-street-1430014-Apr2014/

i note you changed the headline too the problem with this article as you may note from my comments at the bottom is that

“The museum and interpretive centre will be publicly-ran by Dublin City Council when they are completed. ”

which museum and interpretive centre are they talking about Moore Street or GPO?

Mary FitzPatrick put out a statement after meeting the minister where she said

I was encouraged by the Minister’s response to my suggestion that, when completed, the Museum and Interpretive Center will be publicly-ran by Dublin City Council … http://www.fiannafail.ie/news/entry/10968/#.U1fsHndVP7A.twitter

because that’s what she wants. but is it for definite as they say?

I would presume thejournal would checks every statement it makes, and checked with the Department of Arts and Heritage and Gaeltacht but maybe it didn't because it seems to directly use Mary Fitzpatrick words


Update Reporter got back to me and removed the sentence, it was just Mary Fitzpatrick hope it would publically run and not definte statement

expectationlost

dail discussion from last week http://www.maureenosullivan.ie/transcript.html why is the minister so obessesed with number 18 moore street

Qualitymark

I have no doubt that it will only be publicly run if it is owned by the State.

expectationlost

Realtives of 1916 fear 'botch job' on €5m revamp http://shar.es/S1aL6 via @herald_ie http://www.herald.ie/news/realtives-of-1916-fear-botch-job-on-5m-revamp-30220177.html

alastair

expectationlost wrote: »

Realtives of 1916 fear 'botch job' on €5m revamp http://shar.es/S1aL6 via @herald_ie http://www.herald.ie/news/realtives-of-1916-fear-botch-job-on-5m-revamp-30220177.html

This is an important site," Mr Connolly Heron told the Herald.

"The 1916 leaders spent their final hours of freedom here."

Well then - that's a compelling argument for turning an entire side of a street into a 1916 shrine, alongside parallel museums in the GPO and Kilmainham Gaol. But what of Constance Markievicz? Surely the College of Surgeons needs to be also turned into a shrine also?

Looking more and more likely that nothing will be ready on Moore street for 2016, unless this farce of lobbying for a 'revolution quarter' winds up.

expectationlost

alastair wrote: »

Well then - that's a compelling argument for turning an entire side of a street into a 1916 shrine, alongside parallel museums in the GPO and Kilmainham Gaol. But what of Constance Markievicz? Surely the College of Surgeons needs to be also turned into a shrine also?

are they planning to demolish the college of surgeons?

Qualitymark

alastair wrote: »

Well then - that's a compelling argument for turning an entire side of a street into a 1916 shrine, alongside parallel museums in the GPO and Kilmainham Gaol. But what of Constance Markievicz? Surely the College of Surgeons needs to be also turned into a shrine also?

Looking more and more likely that nothing will be ready on Moore street for 2016, unless this farce of lobbying for a 'revolution quarter' winds up.

Another straw man. Nobody is looking for a shrine.

expectationlost

don't they already have permission. how soon could they start work?

alastair

Qualitymark wrote: »

Another straw man. Nobody is looking for a shrine.

Nah - just the 'preservation' of an entire street side, with a stipulation that nothing as tawdry as a chipper might sully the reverence of the 'revolution quarter'. :rolleyes:

alastair

expectationlost wrote: »

are they planning to demolish the college of surgeons?

Well, seeing as it comprises no part of the 'revolutionary quarter', merely playing an actual and significant role in the actual conflict, I guess it's fair game for a bit of demolition.

expectationlost

stupid f me to eve n you reply to you alastair, on the ignore list you go, your not interested in having serious discussions about this

Development company Chartered Land, which has planning permission for a massive retail development surrounding the site, has said it hopes to begin work as soon as possible.

expectationlost

GROUP WELCOMES PLAN FOR MOORE ST 1916 CENTRE http://www.kildare-nationalist.ie/2014/04/30/group-welcomes-plan-for-moore-st-1916-centre/

The Save Moore Street group, which includes relatives of those who fought in the Rising, say its a red-letter day for the campaign.

which group?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0430/614091-1916-rising-centre/ see dueling groups set up, one wonders whether those in the Save 1916 Group will get seats on board for the Museum?

The decision was welcomed by one group of relatives of the 1916 leaders, Nuala O'Rahilly-Price of the Save 1916 Group.

But James Connolly Heron of the Save Moore St Campaign, which had been pushing for the preservation of the entire terrace said the commemorative centre was a "PR exercise to cloak the obliteration of what the National Museum has described as the important historical site in modern Irish history".

The group said it will be looking at ways of objecting through the planning process as Dublin City Council planners have to agree to the changes

what is the planning process for this

looked at dublin city planning moore street / chartered land http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/wphappcriteria.display two listing by chartered/shaffrey opening up works/ test pits nothing else.