Will a Nissan Patrol KingsRoad Qualify

Snake_Doctor

As a camper in Ireland? They are called GranRoad in the UK - essentially a high roof Patrol with a few camping foldout bits inc. Cooker - the rear seats fold flat and there is a fold out "board" to make up a Bed in the back.
Its here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5vPi0DKsMs

I spotted a few for sale in the UK
Thanks,
S'Doc

moodrater

For tax and registration purposes yes but you'll struggle to get it insured if you can at all, you'd probably have to go through a club and they will want it to be a proper conversion as they are not interested in helping people with pretend campers dodge tax.

Irishgoatman

I would very surprised if that could be classed as a camper for tax and registration.

Be great for a day/night fishing though but camping? :eek:.

moodrater

Irishgoatman wrote: »

I would very surprised if that could be classed as a camper for tax and registration.

Be great for a day/night fishing though but camping? :eek:.

"The Minister has been advised by the Revenue Commissioners that under the new legislation which came into force on 1 January 2011, a special purpose vehicle with EU category M1, M2, or M3 with bodywork SA (as defined in the Annex to Directive 2007/46/EC) that contains at least seats and table, sleeping accommodation which may be converted from the seats, cooking facilities, and storage facilities where the equipment shall be rigidly fixed to the living compartment; (with the exception of the table may be designed to be easily removable) will be designated as a motor caravan for vehicle registration tax purposes and will be chargeable at 13.3% of OMSP. This legislation places no restriction on the height of the vehicle as long as it displays the other characteristics at registration and the accompanying documentation confirms these characteristics."

Moomat

That is a fantastic machine! How much do they go for in the UK? Post some links, I promise I won't buy it!

Macspower

Looks like a great vehicle.. Problem in Ireland will be the tax :eek:
How about making it a commercial? Get rid of back seats completely and have it registered as such?

Moomat

Macspower wrote: »

Looks like a great vehicle.. Problem in Ireland will be the tax :eek:
How about making it a commercial? Get rid of back seats completely and have it registered as such?

If you can get it registered as a camper it would be €102/year regardless of how many seats

moodrater

Macspower wrote: »

Looks like a great vehicle.. Problem in Ireland will be the tax :eek:
How about making it a commercial? Get rid of back seats completely and have it registered as such?

You could probably crewcab it as long as 50% of the floor space in the back is for goods and you fit a bulkhead.

My cousin put a 2.5l twin cam head on his 3.0 petrol patrol and gets up to 37mpg on average which is better than the diesel.

Snake_Doctor

This is the fella,
http://www.4x4xfaz.co.uk/
He sold one there a while back for 4.5 K Stg. I like them because they have a rep of being indestructible. Can you still convert to crew cabs? I thought that avenue was closed -that unless it came origonally as a crew cab that it couldnt be converted?

Moomat

So if I'm understanding correctly, all you need to be defined as a camper by revenue is:

Seating (which can form part of a bed)
A table (which can be removable)
Cooking facilities mounted in the living compartment (something like a 2 ring gas stove and 400g bottle)
Rigidly mounted storage in the living compartment

You could get a self inflating mattress, seat mounted tables, 2 ring stove and gas and make up some sort of cupboard all for less than €100. There's some prime 4x4's around that someone could convert themselves..

Hmm, OP you has me thinking... I'd personally also add a drive away awning, sink and 12v pump with shower head, leisure battery + spilt charger and inverter, a water bladder, slim 12v cooler box or passive extreme cooler and a roof rack with box. You'd have plenty of change from €1000 and a go anywhere camper with 5 seats and low tax. I know of a 95 trooper with 80k miles that would be ideal for a conversion like that. Just always assumed there was more involved in getting it registered. I wonder what they would say the OMSP is?

moodrater

Moomat wrote: »

So if I'm understanding correctly, all you need to be defined as a camper by revenue is:

Seating (which can form part of a bed)
A table (which can be removable)
Cooking facilities mounted in the living compartment (something like a 2 ring gas stove and 400g bottle)
Rigidly mounted storage in the living compartment

You could get a self inflating mattress, seat mounted tables, 2 ring stove and gas and make up some sort of cupboard all for less than €100. There's some prime 4x4's around that someone could convert themselves..

Hmm, OP you has me thinking... I'd personally also add a drive away awning, sink and 12v pump with shower head, leisure battery + spilt charger and inverter, a water bladder, slim 12v cooler box or passive extreme cooler and a roof rack with box. You'd have plenty of change from €1000 and a go anywhere camper with 5 seats and low tax. I know of a 95 trooper with 80k miles that would be ideal for a conversion like that. Just always assumed there was more involved in getting it registered. I wonder what they would say the OMSP is?

Yet again this is true for tax and registration purposes but you won't get insurance.
Camper insurance in ireland is all group schemes they will just refuse you if you're taking the piss.
Then the only way you'll get insurance is by going to the ombudsman and forcing your insurer to insure you at a very high price. The savings would be marginal and you can imagine what they'll be like to deal with in the event of an accident.

Snake_Doctor

Okay - but I actually do want to use it as an offroader weekend camper - I have permissions to stay in places in Kerry, but they would be a disaster to get a normal camper in and out of - and anyway I dont have that kind of money.
It wouldnt make sense to run a 4.2 as a daily - albiet a diesel, so it would probably only be used a max of 10 weekends over the summer, so yes I dont want to pay full whack on tax but I am not taking the piss either, but I guess thats how it would be viewed by the insurance from what you are saying so maybe commercial is the way to go with a few camping bits.

Moomat

moodrater wrote: »

Yet again this is true for tax and registration purposes but you won't get insurance.
Camper insurance in ireland is all group schemes they will just refuse you if you're taking the piss.
Then the only way you'll get insurance is by going to the ombudsman and forcing your insurer to insure you at a very high price. The savings would be marginal and you can imagine what they'll be like to deal with in the event of an accident.

I wouldn't consider it taking the piss, it would be a proper expedition camper! In Ireland you're pretty limited but in the UK and Europe there's no problem with heading off the beaten track. Spent alot of last summer in a little swb transit going around Europe, space wise you'd have near enough the same in a big 4x4. We spent most of our time outside anyways,
I'm sure it would be possible to find somebody to underwrite the insurance without having to go to the ombudsman. I used to have a motortrade policy that covered S,D&P so that would of done.

moodrater

Moomat wrote: »

I wouldn't consider it taking the piss, it would be a proper expedition camper! In Ireland you're pretty limited but in the UK and Europe there's no problem with heading off the beaten track. Spent alot of last summer in a little swb transit going around Europe, space wise you'd have near enough the same in a big 4x4. We spent most of our time outside anyways,
I'm sure it would be possible to find somebody to underwrite the insurance without having to go to the ombudsman. I used to have a motortrade policy that covered S,D&P so that would of done.

If you do a proper expedition camper conversion the club may accept you but since the off the road thing came in last year the insurance companies have been innundated with chancers trying to dodge the road tax, they don't want your business. One of the underwriters tried to pull out of ireland completely last year and was forced to stay by the eu regulator.

People are having difficulty insuring far more comprehensive conversions van conversions than what you're talking about where the height isn't six feet. Yes you can go the part time motortrade route but comprehensive probably wouldn't be a significant saving over private insurance and tax, my friend is paying €1850 after 3 years albeit with performance, motorbike and transporter cover.

spaceHopper

I imported a camper from japan got a great van but you do get hit for a lot of tax. Say the fee on board price is 5k the duty is 10% so 500 then they charge you vat at 23% on 5500 so 1205 now they hit you for 13% of what they feel its worth which will be more than it is worth. Say another 1000 that is 2705 euros tax

If you must have 4wd then have a look for a 4wd Toyota hiace but you won't get diff lock and you will have to hunt for some parts

Moomat

spaceHopper wrote: »

I imported a camper from japan got a great van but you do get hit for a lot of tax. Say the fee on board price is 5k the duty is 10% so 500 then they charge you vat at 23% on 5500 so 1205 now they hit you for 13% of what they feel its worth which will be more than it is worth. Say another 1000 that is 2705 euros tax

If you must have 4wd then have a look for a 4wd Toyota hiace but you won't get diff lock and you will have to hunt for some parts

What was the transport costs like? What did you buy? There's some dream machines over there! I love any campers outside the norm, post a few pics if you can

Macspower

is the 1.8 meter head room regulation gone?

moodrater

Macspower wrote: »

is the 1.8 meter head room regulation gone?

Yes for tax and registration purposes, but the insurance group schemes are refusing to insure people on the basis of it still, they can put whatever parameters they like on a group scheme.

MOB993

Don't mean to hijack your thread. I currently own a 110 Land rover and will be soon changing it to a camper. I am not doing this to dodge tax because I genuinely want a camper that is a capable 4x4. I measured up the space inside and can easily fit all thats needed inside to accommodate two people. Bit small but sure its better than the tent I have.

Has there been anybody else out there who has done this? Pictures would be great!!

Popular idea, I'm tempted myself but reckon I'll settle for a 4wd that can tow my existing.

Recent thread with much tyre kicking and sub-links.

pete4130

This is my 75 series Landcruiser camper in Australia. Bit rough around the edges but it seats 6, can sleep 4, has a cooker, gas, fridge, storage cupboards, sink, running water, fold out table on the rear door. Can pretty much go anywhere I want it to as well.

Tempted to bring it home to Ireland later this year but I can see it being targeted by scum for break ins














I've trekked it, albeit lost at the time across these mountains on crappy 7.5x16 cheap Chinese road tires…the eggs in the fridge didn't survive though.

Moomat

pete4130 wrote: »

This is my 75 series Landcruiser camper in Australia. Bit rough around the edges but it seats 6, can sleep 4, has a cooker, gas, fridge, storage cupboards, sink, running water, fold out table on the rear door. Can pretty much go anywhere I want it to as well.

Tempted to bring it home to Ireland later this year but I can see it being targeted by scum for break ins

Nice machine! Wouldn't worry about bringing it back, go for it! just put some good layers of security on it to immobilise it as best as possible, mechanically and electrically.
The roof is brilliant, do you find you're able to manage ok not having a roofrack?

Changed my mind about the landy...I want one of these instead now :cool:

pete4130

A roof rack would be handy at times for an extra spare wheel/fuel cans. New rear bars to carry 2 spares are about $1200 to buy, plus the wheel.

The pop top is handy to sleep in. Leave everything downstairs and climb up.

For urban/street camping downstairs is the go. Rear side bench seat folds out to a bed. Dump everything in the front seats and its pretty discreet.

It's got 2x90L fuel tanks but its always handy to have an extra 20-40L.

It's pretty good for space inside. It can get tedious if your keeping stuff on the floor in the back. Everything has to come out to open the cupboard doors.

It's noisy. Leaf sprung and the cupboards etc rattle a lot off the Tarmac. It's just the nature of it.

Moomat

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Changed my mind about the landy...I want one of these instead now :cool:

Great yoke! I think some of the old van bodies can be put onto 4x4 chassis like the Vario's that the ESB use.
Great write up here by a lad converting an ex ESB Vario http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/78237-Pre-birth-of-a-camper-No-laughing!

Moomat

pete4130 wrote: »

A roof rack would be handy at times for an extra spare wheel/fuel cans. New rear bars to carry 2 spares are about $1200 to buy, plus the wheel.

The pop top is handy to sleep in. Leave everything downstairs and climb up.

For urban/street camping downstairs is the go. Rear side bench seat folds out to a bed. Dump everything in the front seats and its pretty discreet.

It's got 2x90L fuel tanks but its always handy to have an extra 20-40L.

It's pretty good for space inside. It can get tedious if your keeping stuff on the floor in the back. Everything has to come out to open the cupboard doors.

It's noisy. Leaf sprung and the cupboards etc rattle a lot off the Tarmac. It's just the nature of it.

That's some amount of fuel you're carrying, make sure the Americans don't invade you!

pete4130

It's so big here that 180L isn't a whole lot. Plus when you get into the middle of the country diesel goes up from about $1.50/L to near $3/L in some places. It pays to stock up when its cheap.
If you're unlucky & get bogged/stuck somewhere really remote and have to wait it out a few days to get recovered/found all that fuel will keep the truck running and the air con keeping you cool!

If I'm off road using low range, especially on sand it uses a lot more fuel. Same for hilly country roads. I'd normally get about 11L/100km but in December I did a 2 week expedition down through Victoria and was using probably 15+L/100km.