Management fee increase

Peehadc

Shocked to see that my fee is going up 12% (3 bed apt) this year on top of a full LPT too. Although in fairness(!) its every dwelling type except 2/3 bed houses (2.5% increase).
Appears to stem from cash flow/increased maintenance in CL grove & park according to the letter. Don't know if a 78% payment rate of the annual sub, not knowing industrial averages, is good but its in line with the TV licence payment rate (82%).
This will be a decisive issue for those who pay their sub and therefore have to shoulder the increase for those who don't cough up or those unable to pay due to various circumstances.
We've been lucky from the maintenance side that little has gone askew inside or out but you never know so I guess it wold be nice to fall back on support if needed. Having said that I can't understand why its a big increase over the 2/3 bed houses (2.5% increase).
May need to work harder at a better compliance rate...
Remind me again what happens if you don't pay, does it accumulate til you sell then you settle?

JanneG

Peehadc wrote: »

Shocked to see that my fee is going up 12% (3 bed apt) this year on top of a full LPT too. Although in fairness(!) its every dwelling type except 2/3 bed houses (2.5% increase).
Appears to stem from cash flow/increased maintenance in CL grove & park according to the letter. Don't know if a 78% payment rate of the annual sub, not knowing industrial averages, is good but its in line with the TV licence payment rate (82%).
This will be a decisive issue for those who pay their sub and therefore have to shoulder the increase for those who don't cough up or those unable to pay due to various circumstances.
We've been lucky from the maintenance side that little has gone askew inside or out but you never know so I guess it wold be nice to fall back on support if needed. Having said that I can't understand why its a big increase over the 2/3 bed houses (2.5% increase).
May need to work harder at a better compliance rate...
Remind me again what happens if you don't pay, does it accumulate til you sell then you settle?

You won't be able to sell if your fees are not paid up as the management company will hold back the necessary paperwork needed to complete the sale. Could potentially put buyers off... 

FirstIn

You need parking permits. Working great in the Wood.

Annasopra

Peehadc wrote: »

Shocked to see that my fee is going up 12% (3 bed apt) this year on top of a full LPT too. Although in fairness(!) its every dwelling type except 2/3 bed houses (2.5% increase).
Appears to stem from cash flow/increased maintenance in CL grove & park according to the letter. Don't know if a 78% payment rate of the annual sub, not knowing industrial averages, is good but its in line with the TV licence payment rate (82%).
This will be a decisive issue for those who pay their sub and therefore have to shoulder the increase for those who don't cough up or those unable to pay due to various circumstances.
We've been lucky from the maintenance side that little has gone askew inside or out but you never know so I guess it wold be nice to fall back on support if needed. Having said that I can't understand why its a big increase over the 2/3 bed houses (2.5% increase).
May need to work harder at a better compliance rate...
Remind me again what happens if you don't pay, does it accumulate til you sell then you settle?

You need a better management company and/or residents committee. In Seabourne it has reduced every year for the last 4 or 5 years.

wicklowdub

JanneG wrote: »

You won't be able to sell if your fees are not paid up as the management company will hold back the necessary paperwork needed to complete the sale. Could potentially put buyers off... 

What necessary paperwork?, unless they have a judgement on your mortgage then they would have no involvement in the sale of a house.

Pablo Sanchez

wicklowdub wrote: »

What necessary paperwork?, unless they have a judgement on your mortgage then they would have no involvement in the sale of a house.

The purchaser's solicitor would not allow the sale to complete until confirmation from the Management co that there is no charge's outstanding on the property.

Rokyard

mango salsa wrote: »

You need a better management company and/or residents committee. In Seabourne it has reduced every year for the last 4 or 5 years.

Actually the Park & Grove Management Fees are very reasonable compared to Seabourne only 592 euro for a 3 bed Apt .. .which I`m in too.
Seabourne is 1298 euro per year for a 3 bed.

The Management Company do a great job in my opinion, And this is the first year since they took over that fees have increased.

the main problem is that the Management company own the externals of the Duplex Apartments and the residents the internals. this means that there is a higher maintenance overhead associated with them. Also as was pointed out, as the apartments are ageing more and more issues are cropping up. Hence the increase.

It is an increase of 62 euro from 532 to 594 but its still only an extra 5 euro per month. so I wont be quibbling.

Don't Chute!

That is very interesting Rokyard, would you know how much is in the sinking fund as well for Park & Grove?

Annasopra

Is park and grove an apartment block?

loyatemu

mango salsa wrote: »

Is park and grove an apartment block?

there's houses, duplexes and apartments - not sure if there are lifts in the apartments though, which would make a big difference to the management fees.

Rokyard

Charlesland Park and grove have about 500 dwellings between them, possibly more.
Its a mix of Houses, Apartments and Duplexes. There are no blocks of apartments in the conventional sense. The apartments are only a ground floor apt and a duplex on top. they have own door entrances with a garden front and back. so no need for elevators etc.

you can see an example in the pics from the developers site:

http://www.brianmdurkan.com/our-services/residential/our-projects/charlesland-grove-charlesland-park/?project-nav

Annasopra

Rokyard wrote: »

Charlesland Park and grove have about 500 dwellings between them, possibly more.
Its a mix of Houses, Apartments and Duplexes. There are no blocks of apartments in the conventional sense. The apartments are only a ground floor apt and a duplex on top. they have own door entrances with a garden front and back. so no need for elevators etc.

you can see an example in the pics from the developers site:

http://www.brianmdurkan.com/our-services/residential/our-projects/charlesland-grove-charlesland-park/?project-nav

Ah ok - completely different scenario then as with apartment blocks you have added costs of building insurance, electricity and cleaning for corridoors, lift costs. So a comparison between the two isn't necessarily that relevant.

snowman224

Pablo Sanchez wrote: »

The purchaser's solicitor would not allow the sale to complete until confirmation from the Management co that there is no charge's outstanding on the property.

The purchasers solicitor "should" check that all fees have been paid.
Doesnt mean that they will necessarily check. Plenty of bad solicitors out there...
However, it's typically part of the standard contract of sale.

Annasopra

snowman224 wrote: »

The purchasers solicitor "should" check that all fees have been paid.
Doesnt mean that they will necessarily check. Plenty of bad solicitors out there...
However, it's typically part of the standard contract of sale.

If they didn't they would be a very incompetent solicitor....

spaceman365

In the unfortunate event that the purchasers solicitor overlooks the matter of unpaid fees at time of sale, the liability falls to the new Owner. The principle being that the Service Fees follow the property not the Vendor or Purchasing Owner. If this should ever occur the new Owner has recourse to his/her purchasing solicitor to reimburse the fees.

Banta

Rokyard wrote: »

Seabourne is 1298 euro per year for a 3 bed.

Whilst picking my jaw up off the floor, I'll ask the question anyway, but I'm sure my jaw will just end up on the floor again...

Is that figure true/correct?

youknowwho

I understood, and stand corrected, that a new owner has to enter into a lease agreement with the management company as residents are not freehold owners. Residents have a licence to use the common areas and facilities subject to payment of the management fees.

Without being paid I suspect a management company wouldn't consent to the lease being transferred to a new owner.

stevestevenson

Rokyard wrote: »

Actually the Park & Grove Management Fees are very reasonable compared to Seabourne only 592 euro for a 3 bed Apt .. .which I`m in too.
Seabourne is 1298 euro per year for a 3 bed.

The Management Company do a great job in my opinion, And this is the first year since they took over that fees have increased.

the main problem is that the Management company own the externals of the Duplex Apartments and the residents the internals. this means that there is a higher maintenance overhead associated with them. Also as was pointed out, as the apartments are ageing more and more issues are cropping up. Hence the increase.

It is an increase of 62 euro from 532 to 594 but its still only an extra 5 euro per month. so I wont be quibbling.

+1 on this point! I would go a step further though and argue that the fees have been too low for a number of years - so we're at the point now where there are zero cash reserves built up and where we can't fund the necessary services because 20% of people choose not to pay. We should not be running this close to the bone. I have paid management fees all over the country, and Charlesland (despite it's location & proximity to Dublin) is still the cheapest I've ever paid.

I have no problem paying these fees as I can see the benefits when I look outside my window at the well-maintained, clean estate.

Also - we get nothing for our property tax, so we should really stop mentioning it - it's as relevant as car tax in these discussions. I certainly won't be cribbing over a couple of quid extra per month when we can see exactly where the money is going.

stevestevenson

Banta wrote: »

Whilst picking my jaw up off the floor, I'll ask the question anyway, but I'm sure my jaw will just end up on the floor again...

Is that figure true/correct?

I've heard this number mentioned before, and to the best of my knowledge it's true - and again, that's not too pricey compared to other apartment blocks I've lived in.
These blocks need large sinking funds to pay for (example) if an elevator needed to be repaired/replaced, etc - and in fairness to Seabourne, I'm sure that luxurious red carpet takes some maintaining :P.

spaceman365

Hi. Each Owner is a Member of the Management Company and upon sale and transfer the vendor ceases to be a Member and the Purchaser becomes the new Owner and Member. So if the selling Member has not paid up their Service Fees to date of sale, they become the liability of the new Owner/Member.

The Management Company has a Lease for the common areas and hence retain responsibility for their maintenance and upkeep.

Trust this helps explain the process.

mathepac

mango salsa wrote: »

You need a better management company and/or residents committee. ...

I'm not sure I follow. What part does a residents' committee play in a MUD?

stevestevenson

mathepac wrote: »

I'm not sure I follow. What part does a residents' committee play in a MUD?

None. I think he's getting his terms mixed up.

There are only 2 sets of players here -
1. The Management Company - CGP, of which we are all members/shareholders (in Park & Grove), and for which we elect the Board of directors at every AGM.

2. The Management Agent - A separate company, employed by the Management company to discharge various duties on our behalf - collecting fees, paying tradesmen, handling queries, etc. In this case it's Kennedy-Wright.

Annasopra

Banta wrote: »

Whilst picking my jaw up off the floor, I'll ask the question anyway, but I'm sure my jaw will just end up on the floor again...

Is that figure true/correct?

I think so but that includes rubbish, electricity of corridors, landscaping, common area maintenance.

tp25

perhaps not a direct subject of the thread but worth asking.

Received a letter with the breakdown of the Management fees, ''block insurance'' is a part of the fees, it says ''fire''.

I'm paying house insurance (no contents) for the past X years, would it be possible to stop paying house insurance and rely only on the insurance policy included in the Management fees?

JanneG

tp25 wrote: »

perhaps not a direct subject of the thread but worth asking.

Received a letter with the breakdown of the Management fees, ''block insurance'' is a part of the fees, it says ''fire''.

I'm paying house insurance (no contents) for the past X years, would it be possible to stop paying house insurance and rely only on the insurance policy included in the Management fees?

AFAIK, Park and Grove have block policies for everything as they are timber framed, but this only covers rebuild, ie no contents.

However, if you're in the likes of the Wood or Court, the block policies are only for the apartments. The houses have to have their own individual insurance policies there.

tp25

thanks, but have anyone (I mean residents) actually cancelled their home insurance policy to go this route (using just Management company's Block policy)?

Annasopra

tp25 wrote: »

thanks, but have anyone (I mean residents) actually cancelled their home insurance policy to go this route (using just Management company's Block policy)?

But then your home is not insured!

tp25

mango salsa wrote: »

But then your home is not insured!

I only guess you meant to say the ''contents'' of the home isn't and not the home.

The whole purpose of my question is to have ONE policy for the rebuild in case if there is a necessity and not two policies (as it seems to be the case with most of the properties in CL Park and Grove).

Would management agency get a stake in the event of claim? - Say my house would be rebuild from my own policy. I'm saying this because management company pays Block policy for the units, therefore they are a party to payout in the event of claim - me thinks.

JanneG

tp25 wrote: »

I only guess you meant to say the ''contents'' of the home isn't and not the home.

The whole purpose of my question is to have ONE policy for the rebuild in case if there is a necessity and not two policies (as it seems to be the case with most of the properties in CL Park and Grove).

Would management agency get a stake in the event of claim? - Say my house would be rebuild from my own policy. I'm saying this because management company pays Block policy for the units, therefore they are a party to payout in the event of claim - me thinks.

If you are in the Park or Grove, then you, afaik, have a Buildings Insurance (no contents) through the management company. This is a legal obligation due to the type of structure it is (ie wood frame).

I'd recommend you to contact the management agent and ask them.

Also, keep in mind that the management company and management agent are two separate entities.

You pay money to the management company, which you are a member of and the management agent only does the day to day running of it.

Rokyard

I dont have any building insurance just contents insurance. the circulars from the management company in Park & Grove, specifically mention that while they have building insurance in place, individual apartment owners still need contents insurance. which is what Ive done.

tp25

Rokyard wrote: »

I dont have any building insurance just contents insurance. the circulars from the management company in Park & Grove, specifically mention that while they have building insurance in place, individual apartment owners still need contents insurance. which is what Ive done.

again, this isn't what I am thinking/talking about. you are talking your belongings insurance which is a very small value insurance, I'm talking about rebuild insurance. This is an insurance which will rebuild your property in case if needs be.

I'm specifically querying REBUILD of the unit in case of necessity and the whole purpose of having 2 separate insurance policies for it (if this is the case).

I would love to have confirmation what the word ''block'' actually means in the policies as it may as well means apartment block as the block of terraced houses.

I'm in terraced house. I think it's right question to ask to Management Company.