Eating meat ethically

bullpost

I'm a meat eater like most people. I was looking at some disturbing film recently about the industrial approach to rearing animals in the US. I was under the impression that we in Ireland had a more compassionate approach to rearing the animals we eat, but a recent report suggests widespread cruelty here in rearing pigs:

http://action.ciwf.org.uk/ea-action/action?ea.campaign.id=21323&ea.client.id=119

the beer revolu

I reckon beef and lamb in Ireland is pretty good for rearing standards but you really want to know where your pork and chicken is coming from.

Whistlejacket

Yep I don't think it really matters where in the world the pig farm is located. If it's a commercial farm then the overheads are massive (heating and feed) and the margin per animal is very low. This forces the farmer into keeping big numbers, it's not that pig farmers are cruel or unfeeling people (often quite the opposite in my experience). It's just that people like eating pork products and they are used to paying very little for them in the supermarket.

Plus cattle and sheep are quite happy to be housed in pens with concrete floors or slats for the winter, as they are grazers by nature. Once they have the company of their companions and plenty of silage etc. to eat they are content: although it's still a great sight to see them go buck-mad with excitement when they get back out on the grass in the spring :-). Pigs on the other hand normally root in the ground for their food, so when they're reared indoors on a solid floor they are prevented from doing something that comes naturally to them. This leads to frustration and tail biting etc.

I've spent time looking after cattle, sheep, horses, pigs and other animals on Irish farms and have been to plenty of meat plants over the years. I'm happy to eat Irish lamb and beef, both from a quality and welfare point of view. When it comes to pigs and chicken I prefer to eat them less often but to spend the money on supporting Irish farmers who are rearing them outdoors. The stocking rates have to be way lower and the animals take longer to rear under these conditions, so the meat has to cost more. But it's money well spent in my opinion and the taste is delicious!!

rhapsody

Thanks for this 'insider' info, that's interesting- I'd never have thought of the grazing difference.

Whistlejacket wrote: »

I'm happy to eat Irish lamb and beef, both from a quality and welfare point of view. When it comes to pigs and chicken I prefer to eat them less often but to spend the money on supporting Irish farmers who are rearing them outdoors. The stocking rates have to be way lower and the animals take longer to rear under these conditions, so the meat has to cost more. But it's money well spent in my opinion and the taste is delicious!!

How do you decide where to support such farmers i.e. how do you know which farmers treat their animals better?

mcballer

I would be really interested as to how you find pig / chicken meat that have had happier lives prior to d day. I don't actually eat meat at present havent for many years but often think I can't imagine not eating it ever again ( u only live once and all that) but really couldn't do it knowing the animals had a terrible life prior to being dinner.... After much thought I went back to eating fish about 3 years ago. But I seem to just not be able to go the meat route yet ethically

syklops

I try where possible to buy from the butchers and a good butchers is happy, indeed proud to tell you where he got different things. If you ask the butcher where the steaks came from and he looks at you incredulously and says "From the wholesalers of course!", then move on.

Ask the butcher where the chicken came from and he might say "Avondale farm". Now just because it has farm in the title does not mean its like something from Postman Pat, but you have a name to do some research. If from the pictures, or if you drive past and it looks like something from the Shawshank Redemption then don't buy it.

Whistlejacket

Yep, I think the best way to start is to avoid the supermarket. If you have a butcher that slaughters their own animals then that is a great start. Just ask them where they get their meat, if they are doing it right they will be delighted you are taking an interest and happily tell you whatever you want to know. If they are just buying in the meat wholesale i.e. wrapped in plastic or already covered in dubious sauces then try elsewhere. The really well known Irish butchers are worth a visit if you can e.g. Nolans in Kilcullen or the guy in Avoca: Whelehan? (his Irish beef book is well worth a read). They're just two examples but ask around and you'll find more, then go and stock up the freezer. Twitter is also a great place to find out about Irish food production and farming, I find it very informative.

For chickens I buy the free range ones in the supermarket. Christmas turkey from Ballybryan turkeys in Rhode, Offaly. Geese from Kilkenny: www.kilkennyfreerange.com We stopped eating pork and bacon at home for a good while but then we encountered Millhouse animal farm at the Sheridan's food festival in Meath, they're based in Oldcastle. So we now take delivery of an outdoor reared Tamworth pig every year, delivered to the door, butchered to request and ready to go straight in the freezer.

Yes it takes a bit more research and planning than popping into the supermarket on the way home from work. It has made me more selective about the meat I eat and conscious of not wasting any of it (I use all the unusual/slower cuts and I don't eat meat everyday). But it's so worth it. The meat is absolutely delicious, a real privilege to cook and eat and I enjoy meeting the person who actually produced the animals and talking to them about what they do, they all take a lot of pride in it.

mcballer

Thanks for the info. If I am to eat meat again I would defo be doing my research on it. I do like the description that the meat is a privilege to eat and cook. I'm always interested in Hugh fearnly whittingstalls river cottage and having the animals have a good life and ensuring that all the animal gets used as a sort of respect to it having given its life. Interesting anyways.

hfallada

I find most animal activism videos from the US are propaganda and dont in anyway reflect industry norms. Take fur farming, which they always show extreme china farms. Even through most fur is produced in Europe in a surprising humane manner. (they never take into account that fake fur jackets are often produced in sweatshops with harsh chemicals).

Most chickens are produced on a few farms in Monaghan and processed in a massive factory. Its simplify because of economics. Most people dont care where their chicken comes from or how it is produced. If Irish farms arent producing on a massive scale, then cheaper chicken will be imported from elsewhere.

Pretty much all beef and lamb is produced on small farms on Ireland. You cant tell whether or not your streak has been produced on a 5 acre farm or 500 acre farm as most meat is just labelled from the factory it was processed. Its probably the most difficult to buy free range pork in Ireland

Animord

For free range pork, delivered try Old Farm, I think they deliver anywhere. I have had the pork and it is good.

Also for anyone looking for free range pork, it might be worth putting up a thread the smallholding forum. There is a thread on there at the moment from someone who wants to keep pigs but two is too much pork for his family. I am sure there are more people out there who might keep an extra pig if they had a guaranteed sale for it.

Deise Musashi

For the most ethical and paleo meat, learn to shoot and become a licensed hunter.
You get wild meat (if you are good enough to hunt it) with no drugs or additives, and you are responsible for ensuring the animal dies cleanly and well.

Rear your own or kill your own, or find a good butcher who also rears and kills their own meat.

I am lucky enough that two butchers in my town have farms (or their Fathers are farmer's) and they have a slaughterhouse on site where they kill and hang their animals. I have been in both abattoirs and seen the killing carried out (and helped out if needed) and I am happy to eat their meat. This is easier in a smaller county town than in the cities, but if it bothers you then make the effort.

The alternative is vegetarianism and I am not going down that road!

xOxSinéadxOx

anybody recommend a good butchers in dublin city/northside?

emcardle

You cannot eat meat ethically. Simple as

Deise Musashi

emcardle wrote: »

You cannot eat meat ethically. Simple as

You have decided that you cannot.

I am quite happy that I can...just had some beautiful home reared Spanish Ham brought back by a good friend of mine. His Sister rears, kills and cures the meat and it is outstanding!
Sound animal husbandry or hunting wild game are my preferred meats, but I am fairly carnivorous.

Mellor

emcardle wrote: »

You cannot eat meat ethically. Simple as

If that's your opinion so be it, but like Deise Musashi, I disagree.

I eat a lot of kangaroo meat.
These animals are completely wild, no farming at all. The government monitors their numbers and about 2 milions of them a year need to be culled in the interest of conservation. This is a decision made in the interest of animal welfare, their hide and meat is a byproduct of that decision.
The way I see it, its unethical not to use the meat and let it go waste.