Arsenal v Liverpool FA Cup. KO @16:00 BT Sports 1.

rob316

Stonewall peno but ffs Suarez sold it with the summersault no need for it.

.jacksparrow.

Paulegend wrote: »

it would have been a soft peno against skrtel. its not an accident noone is talking about it after it was looked at a million times

jones is allowed to handle the ball because he was in the box;)

arsenal where not exactly sitting back ala liverpool second half last week. arsenal where pushed back and forced to defend. ye panicked and deserved to throw it away.

but again at the end of the day ye won and a win is a win. ye are not responsible for incompetent referees the way united where for years but ye won so fair play

I'm sorry I had to bite on one issue.

How can you claim fabianaki didn't touch the ball and it was a penalty.

Paulegend

8-10 wrote: »

Agreed it's not surprising. Just think it's unfair on Fab who came in with a top performance and in my view was more instrumental in the win.

Wouldn't mind Liverpool offering him a contract when it expires. He's looked good last few times I've seen him

reading a lot of people saying similar things about fab this morning. he had a great game for arsenal to be fair. he could have nearly had a similar game to what shez in the early moments with the couple of sturridge moments. very good game. where ever he goes though he will have to get first team football. so if liverpool offered him a contract it means bredndan is giving up on migs and i cant see that happening especially when pepe is back in the summer and a move to barca isnt a given

maybe spurs might go for him if loris does force a move

Paulegend

Oranage2 wrote: »

Well something we can both agree on, Howard Webb was shocking and has in most games I'vewwatched.

no dude we are all going to have different views on games against each other. thats just how football works:D of course im going to think liverpool dominated but i can see how you would also think ye edged it. its opinions and banter. my brother is a huge arsenal fan. he is a huge arse at times too but the beside the point i have no ill feelings towards ye. i genuinely wish ye luck against everton

howard webb was always shocking lol

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

I'm sorry I had to bite on one issue.

How can you claim fabianaki didn't touch the ball and it was a penalty.

mate listen if you dont want to "bite" then move along. im not fishing and i dont care to talk to anyone who is going to be talking down about me to other posters.

if you wish to actually discuss there is no problem but ive no time for the little girl attitude

.jacksparrow.

Paulegend wrote: »

no dude we are all going to have different views on games against each other. thats just how football works:D of course im going to think liverpool dominated but i can see how you would also think ye edged it. its opinions and banter. my brother is a huge arsenal fan. he is a huge arse at times too but the beside the point i have no ill feelings towards ye. i genuinely wish ye luck against everton

howard webb was always shocking lol



mate listen if you dont want to "bite" then move along. im not fishing and i dont care to talk to anyone who is going to be talking down about me to other posters.

if you wish to actually discuss there is no problem but ive no time for the little girl attitude

You actually got a ban in the summer for abusing posters during the Suarez affair, yes I do remember.

You also claimed arsenal were in decline.

You're right I shouldn't have bitten, thanks for reminding me, I won't be again.

Dicky Pride

There really is some astonishing bias in this thread. I mean surely people who watch football on a regular basis can be able to watch it even a small amount of objectivity.

Paulegend

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

You actually got a ban in the summer for abusing posters during the Suarez affair, yes I do remember.

You also claimed arsenal were in decline.

You're right I shouldn't have bitten, thanks for reminding me, I won't be again.

youve never been banned?? so what if i was banned. it might have been during the suarez affair but thats not why i was banned. i was banned for retaliating against people like you. the problem was that i retaliated and was reported but i didnt report the posts i was replying to. i guess that says more about others though.

so what i said arsenal are in decline. i have no problem with what i said. i havent said anything countering that??? at the time i said that liverpool where on the way up and that i didnt see arsenal making a step up from where they where with wenger in charge. arsenal have stepped up but they could still end up the same as last season. nothing has changed yet. other than of course i was right about liverpool being on the way up of course.

do me a favour mate and just keep your posts away from me unless you are willing to grow up. im willing to move on but im getting the feeling you have some sort of problem

Fuzzy_Dunlop

8-10 wrote: »

Agreed it's not surprising. Just think it's unfair on Fab who came in with a top performance and in my view was more instrumental in the win.

Wouldn't mind Liverpool offering him a contract when it expires. He's looked good last few times I've seen him

Don't think he'd be willing to be second choice again at another club. He ought to be going to a decent club to be first choice in the summer I reckon.

Quazzie

Paulegend wrote: »

youve never been banned?? so what if i was banned. it might have been during the suarez affair but thats not why i was banned. i was banned for retaliating against people like you. the problem was that i retaliated and was reported but i didnt report the posts i was replying to. i guess that says more about others though.

so what i said arsenal are in decline. i have no problem with what i said. i havent said anything countering that??? at the time i said that liverpool where on the way up and that i didnt see arsenal making a step up from where they where with wenger in charge. arsenal have stepped up but they could still end up the same as last season. nothing has changed yet. other than of course i was right about liverpool being on the way up of course.

do me a favour mate and just keep your posts away from me unless you are willing to grow up. im willing to move on but im getting the feeling you have some sort of problem

How come Arsenal haven't improved, but Liverpool have despite them both being up the same amount positions currently on where they finished last year. If you claim Arsenal haven't stepped up as the season isn't over, then surely using the same logic, Liverpool haven't stepped up yet?

Paulegend

Quazzie wrote: »

How come Arsenal haven't improved, but Liverpool have despite them both being up the same amount positions currently on where they finished last year. If you claim Arsenal haven't stepped up as the season isn't over, then surely using the same logic, Liverpool haven't stepped up yet?

im not trying to stir things up.


im just saying that last year liverpool where fighting for 6th. we finish in 7th and scored 71 goals in the league all season. this year we are currently fighting for a top 4. i think its fair to say we wont finish less than 6th (unless we implode big time) in reality. we have a great chance of finishing top 4 and even top 2. we have scored 66 goals with 12 games to go. i think its fair to say liverpool have made a huge step up.

arsenal however. yes ye have more points than this time last season. but yer situation is different. last year ye where fighting for 4th and despite a commendable battle from spurs ye edged it. ye deserved it though. went on a great run and in the end deserved what ye got. ye scored 66 all season in the league. this year ye seemed to step up. challenging for the title. ye sit in 2nd and its fair to say ye could win the league but ye could also finish 5th. ye could technically finish 6th but that amount of teams leaping ye would be unlikely (the same as my reason for thinking liverpool wont finish 7th). ye are on 48 goals with 12 games to go. meaning that ye could end up with around the same goals as last season and in the same position. hell ye could end up on the same points as last season.


liverpool need 8 points and 5 goals to match last season. they need to finish above 7th. they look like they will be better than last season.

arsenal need 17 points and 24 goals to match last season. they need to finish above 4th. with tough games away to spurs (only as its a derby. otherwise id have them beating spurs) and chelsea aswell as a tough home game against city who will have aguero back and be hoping their away form is up to scratch for the run in. if arsenal can get through those games in march and still be in the top 2 then they should finish higher than last season but if they dont then they could finish in 4th place again or if spurs or everton get their act together they could potentially take arsenals spot in the top 4 (thats if liverpool dont implode of course which is just as possible).


thats why liverpool have stepped up more than arsenal

is that a fair point? not trying to wind anyone up im just saying that you cant see if arsenal stepped up until they look like they will finish better off than last season. right now they could finish the same as last season points goals and placing

ronjo

Paulegend wrote: »

im not trying to stir things up.


im just saying that last year liverpool where fighting for 6th. we finish in 7th and scored 71 goals in the league all season. this year we are currently fighting for a top 4. i think its fair to say we wont finish less than 6th (unless we implode big time) in reality. we have a great chance of finishing top 4 and even top 2. we have scored 66 goals with 12 games to go. i think its fair to say liverpool have made a huge step up.

arsenal however. yes ye have more points than this time last season. but yer situation is different. last year ye where fighting for 4th and despite a commendable battle from spurs ye edged it. ye deserved it though. went on a great run and in the end deserved what ye got. ye scored 66 all season in the league. this year ye seemed to step up. challenging for the title. ye sit in 2nd and its fair to say ye could win the league but ye could also finish 5th. ye could technically finish 6th but that amount of teams leaping ye would be unlikely (the same as my reason for thinking liverpool wont finish 7th). ye are on 48 goals with 12 games to go. meaning that ye could end up with around the same goals as last season and in the same position. hell ye could end up on the same points as last season.


liverpool need 8 points and 5 goals to match last season. they need to finish above 7th. they look like they will be better than last season.

arsenal need 17 points and 24 goals to match last season. they need to finish above 4th. with tough games away to spurs (only as its a derby. otherwise id have them beating spurs) and chelsea aswell as a tough home game against city who will have aguero back and be hoping their away form is up to scratch for the run in. if arsenal can get through those games in march and still be in the top 2 then they should finish higher than last season but if they dont then they could finish in 4th place again or if spurs or everton get their act together they could potentially take arsenals spot in the top 4 (thats if liverpool dont implode of course which is just as possible).


thats why liverpool have stepped up more than arsenal

is that a fair point? not trying to wind anyone up im just saying that you cant see if arsenal stepped up until they look like they will finish better off than last season. right now they could finish the same as last season points goals and placing

Its easier to climb higher from a lower position

Paulegend

ronjo wrote: »

Its easier to climb higher from a lower position

well it is and it isnt. just ask spurs. theyu have been trying to climb into the top 4 for years. as have everton. villa tried it. southampton thought they had a chance this year. it is definitly easier to climb higher in the league from a lower position but it isnt exactly easier to make the step up into the top 4 from being outside it.

but the point is that liverpool have climbed and have stepped up. liverpool had more goals than arsenal last season and look to have added to that yet again. which to what i was saying is that liverpool have made more of an improvement than arsenal on the evidence so far. arsenal could go on and score 30 goals in the next 12 games and win the league but so far they havent improved as much as liverpool.

my point is not that arsenal have declined (even though i did think that they might last summer). my point is that liverpool have improved and liverpool are on the way up.

as i said im not looking to wind anyone up. i dont care enough to get into petty little things anymore on here. if arsenal win the league ill be out celebrating with my brother and a couple of cousins who are all so gunners so long as liverpool finish in the top 4 and i think they will.

by the way this is not a dig at arsenal. arsenal didnt fade away like spurs and united. arsenal didnt try to buy the league the way that city and chelsea tried . they made it into a title battle on merit

citytillidie

Oranage2 wrote: »

Arsenal were very clinical with their finishing, besides a brief spell at the start of the game it was all arsenal first half, they really got stuck in.

Second half after the penalty it was all Liverpool, saying that arsenal defended excellently and Fab played a Stormer.

Should have been a penalty but Gerard should have been off too, webb was shocking, saying that overall I think arsenal deserved it more, Liverpool didn't really ever look like scoring from open play and Fab done excellently to save the half chances Liverpool had.

I'm not sure if any team can take much from the game. Good fight back from pool but it was against half the arsenal B team.

If you want to talk about red cards Monreal should have gotten red for his challenge on Allen

Will I Amnt

Paulegend wrote: »

im not trying to stir things up.


im just saying that last year liverpool where fighting for 6th. we finish in 7th and scored 71 goals in the league all season. this year we are currently fighting for a top 4. i think its fair to say we wont finish less than 6th (unless we implode big time) in reality. we have a great chance of finishing top 4 and even top 2. we have scored 66 goals with 12 games to go. i think its fair to say liverpool have made a huge step up.

arsenal however. yes ye have more points than this time last season. but yer situation is different. last year ye where fighting for 4th and despite a commendable battle from spurs ye edged it. ye deserved it though. went on a great run and in the end deserved what ye got. ye scored 66 all season in the league. this year ye seemed to step up. challenging for the title. ye sit in 2nd and its fair to say ye could win the league but ye could also finish 5th. ye could technically finish 6th but that amount of teams leaping ye would be unlikely (the same as my reason for thinking liverpool wont finish 7th). ye are on 48 goals with 12 games to go. meaning that ye could end up with around the same goals as last season and in the same position. hell ye could end up on the same points as last season.


liverpool need 8 points and 5 goals to match last season. they need to finish above 7th. they look like they will be better than last season.

arsenal need 17 points and 24 goals to match last season. they need to finish above 4th. with tough games away to spurs (only as its a derby. otherwise id have them beating spurs) and chelsea aswell as a tough home game against city who will have aguero back and be hoping their away form is up to scratch for the run in. if arsenal can get through those games in march and still be in the top 2 then they should finish higher than last season but if they dont then they could finish in 4th place again or if spurs or everton get their act together they could potentially take arsenals spot in the top 4 (thats if liverpool dont implode of course which is just as possible).


thats why liverpool have stepped up more than arsenal

is that a fair point? not trying to wind anyone up im just saying that you cant see if arsenal stepped up until they look like they will finish better off than last season. right now they could finish the same as last season points goals and placing

That's some logic you got going on there
2nd place Arsenal haven't stepped up much because they might finish 5th but 4th placed Liverpool have stepped up because they probably won't finish 7th?

ronjo

Paulegend wrote: »

well it is and it isnt. just ask spurs. theyu have been trying to climb into the top 4 for years. as have everton. villa tried it. southampton thought they had a chance this year. it is definitly easier to climb higher in the league from a lower position but it isnt exactly easier to make the step up into the top 4 from being outside it.

but the point is that liverpool have climbed and have stepped up. liverpool had more goals than arsenal last season and look to have added to that yet again. which to what i was saying is that liverpool have made more of an improvement than arsenal on the evidence so far. arsenal could go on and score 30 goals in the next 12 games and win the league but so far they havent improved as much as liverpool.

my point is not that arsenal have declined (even though i did think that they might last summer). my point is that liverpool have improved and liverpool are on the way up.

as i said im not looking to wind anyone up. i dont care enough to get into petty little things anymore on here. if arsenal win the league ill be out celebrating with my brother and a couple of cousins who are all so gunners so long as liverpool finish in the top 4 and i think they will.

by the way this is not a dig at arsenal. arsenal didnt fade away like spurs and united. arsenal didnt try to buy the league the way that city and chelsea tried . they made it into a title battle on merit

What I mean is there are more places to go when you are lower.
Anyway I cant argue that Liverpool havent come on a lot so I wont even try.
Put it this way, I am sure everyone supporting either side is very happy about how the season as a whole is going.

Paulegend

Will I Amnt wrote: »

That's some logic you got going on there
2nd place Arsenal haven't stepped up much because they might finish 5th but 4th placed Liverpool have stepped up because they probably won't finish 7th?

well arsenal have a big chance of finishing in the exact same position with the exact same points and goals as last season

liverpool have a very little chance of that exact thing happening them


this season
2 Arsenal 26 17 5 4 48 26 +22 56
3 City 25 17 3 5 68 27 +41 54
4 Liverpool 26 16 5 5 66 32 +34 53
5 Tottenham 26 15 5 6 36 32 +4 50
6 Everton 25 12 9 4 37 26 +11 45
7 United 26 12 6 8 41 31 +10 42

last season
4 Arsenal 38 21 10 7 72 37 +35 73
5 Tottenham 38 21 9 8 66 46 +20 72
6 Everton 38 16 15 7 55 40 +15 63
7 Liverpool 38 16 13 9 71 43 +28 61


for either team to finish in last years position:

it would take liverpool dropping 12 points and 3 teams gaining ground

for arsenal it would take dropping 3 points

surely that is logic at its very definition??

K-9

It isn't all about goals scored, otherwise it would be Liverpool and City.

Tbh Liverpool and Arsenal both have been under estimated throughout this season, it's something both have in common. I kept reading on here that both clubs would fall away, Arsenal from top and Liverpool from 4th.

ronjo

Paulegend wrote: »

well arsenal have a big chance of finishing in the exact same position with the exact same points and goals as last season

liverpool have a very little chance of that exact thing happening them


this season
2 Arsenal 26 17 5 4 48 26 +22 56
3 City 25 17 3 5 68 27 +41 54
4 Liverpool 26 16 5 5 66 32 +34 53
5 Tottenham 26 15 5 6 36 32 +4 50
6 Everton 25 12 9 4 37 26 +11 45
7 United 26 12 6 8 41 31 +10 42
last season
4 Arsenal 38 21 10 7 72 37 +35 73
5 Tottenham 38 21 9 8 66 46 +20 72
6 Everton 38 16 15 7 55 40 +15 63
7 Liverpool 38 16 13 9 71 43 +28 61

for either team to finish in last years position:

it would take liverpool dropping 12 points and 3 teams gaining ground

for arsenal it would take dropping 3 points

surely that is logic at its very definition??

You think there is a big chance Arsenal will drop from 2.15PPG for the first 26 games to 1.41PPG over the last 12 games?

Thats not logic.

Liverpool will certainly improve.

Paulegend

ronjo wrote: »

What I mean is there are more places to go when you are lower.
Anyway I cant argue that Liverpool havent come on a lot so I wont even try.
Put it this way, I am sure everyone supporting either side is very happy about how the season as a whole is going.

of course dude. as i said regardless of what might be a conception on here i have no ill feeling toward arsenal. if ye win the league none of what i said means anything. hell even if ye dont, what i said means absolutely **** all. just one persons opinion.

for what its worth i hope you trash everton in the fa cup and ill be out cheering ye on

Fair play lads.

donfers

Oranage2 wrote: »

saying that overall I think arsenal deserved it more, Liverpool didn't really ever look like scoring from open play and Fab done excellently to save the half chances Liverpool had.

lol

Liverpool had six or seven really good chances and were it not for poor finishing and poor refereeing this could easily have been another 5-1 mauling

revisionism on here is nuts at times

Paulegend

K-9 wrote: »

It isn't all about goals scored, otherwise it would be Liverpool and City.

Tbh Liverpool and Arsenal both have been under estimated throughout this season, it's something both have in common. I kept reading on here that both clubs would fall away, Arsenal from top and Liverpool from 4th.

nothing at all about goals scored of course (unless you ask wenger how he would run the league. ahem emirates cup )

goals scored just measures if your teams attack has improved.

points wise arsenal need 17 points out of 12 games to equal last season (which of course they should get)

all other talk is moot

ronjo wrote: »

You think there is a big chance Arsenal will drop from 2.15PPG for the first 26 games to 1.41PPG over the last 12 games?

Thats not logic.

Liverpool will certainly improve.

the ppg stuff is really interesting and have been reading all the talk about it here throughout the season and there is loads of good sense in it. but what it doesnt tell you is the fact that arsenal played most of their "big" games at home already. with chelsea and spurs still to go to and city to visit the emirates i dont think its out of this world that they drop 3 points more than liverpool. city have a game in hand over them so they could drop to 3rd. if they dropped 3 points more than liverpool in the last 12 games they could very well finish 4th.

if they did get 1.41ppg over the last 12 games what would their season ppg be??

how is that all not logical?

its 3 points and 12 games.

simple if arsenal dont drop 3 points more than the pool they finish ahead of them and possibly in the top 3. but if they do drop 3 points more then liverpool could finish top 3 and arsenal would finish 4th

ronjo

Paulegend wrote: »

the ppg stuff is really interesting and have been reading all the talk about it here throughout the season and there is loads of good sense in it. but what it doesnt tell you is the fact that arsenal played most of their "big" games at home already. with chelsea and spurs still to go to and city to visit the emirates i dont think its out of this world that they drop 3 points more than liverpool. city have a game in hand over them so they could drop to 3rd. if they dropped 3 points more than liverpool in the last 12 games they could very well finish 4th.

if they did get 1.41ppg over the last 12 games what would their season ppg be??

how is that all not logical?

its 3 points and 12 games.

simple if arsenal dont drop 3 points more than the pool they finish ahead of them and possibly in the top 3. but if they do drop 3 points more then liverpool could finish top 3 and arsenal would finish 4th

I am just talking about Arsenal.
I agree Liverpool will certainly improve a lot.
You said there is a big chance for Arsenal to get only 17 points from 12 games.
Based on what??
Thats midtable form from a team that has anything put midtable form for over a year now.

Paulegend

donfers wrote: »

lol

Liverpool had six or seven really good chances and were it not for poor finishing and poor refereeing this could easily have been another 5-1 mauling

revisionism on here is nuts at times

thats the problem though.

arsenal cant control a ref being crap. sturridge could have had a hattrick. sterling had a couple of chances where he was guilty of the same sort of thing walcott is guilty of and thats his decision making. suarez didnt get into the game enough until the second half and then he just couldnt get his accuaracy together.

we had more chances than arsenal and as far as i think we where the better side. but arsenal did finish their chances and as someone pointed out if it was jose in the arsenal dugout everyone would have said it was a good win.

i think we deserved at the very least a draw but arsenal will feel that they had a professional win and a deserved win overall.

sh1t happens we'll move on and hope arsenal beat everton

K-9

Paulegend wrote: »

nothing at all about goals scored of course (unless you ask wenger how he would run the league. ahem emirates cup )

goals scored just measures if your teams attack has improved.

points wise arsenal need 17 points out of 12 games to equal last season (which of course they should get)

all other talk is moot

I'd just say Liverpool are a lot closer to Arsenal than last season and just leave it at that!

Paulegend

ronjo wrote: »

I am just talking about Arsenal.
I agree Liverpool will certainly improve a lot.
You said there is a big chance for Arsenal to get only 17 points from 12 games.
Based on what??
Thats midtable form from a team that has anything put midtable form for over a year now.

no i meant that arsenal will at least get 17 points from the last 12 games. jesus thats 6 wins out of 12. even if they got thrashed in the 3 games ive mentioned they have 9 more to play.

im just saying that in terms of improvement liverpool have stepped up further than arsenal have this season

but its very fair to say that arsenal didnt need to take as much of a step up as much as liverpool

Paulegend

K-9 wrote: »

I'd just say Liverpool are a lot closer to Arsenal than last season and just leave it at that!

well you could say that but thats not the point.

the point is liverpool have improved (and needed to big time) more than arsenal have

if you where to bet on either team to finish on the same points and in the same position as last season. which team would you get better odds??

liverpool need 8 points and 5 goals to match last season
arsenal need 17 points and 24 goals to match last season

there is more of a chance that arsenal could have the same season as last year than liverpool could

Soups123

donfers wrote: »

lol

Liverpool had six or seven really good chances and were it not for poor finishing and poor refereeing this could easily have been another 5-1 mauling

revisionism on here is nuts at times

Your post is contradictory to your point.

To say yesterday could easily have been a 5-1 mauling is ridiculous

K-9

Paulegend wrote: »

well you could say that but thats not the point.

the point is liverpool have improved (and needed to big time) more than arsenal have

6 of one, half a dozen of another as my old maths teacher used to say!

ronjo

Paulegend wrote: »

well arsenal have a big chance of finishing in the exact same position with the exact same points and goals as last season

Paulegend wrote: »

no i meant that arsenal will at least get 17 points from the last 12 games. jesus thats 6 wins out of 12. even if they got thrashed in the 3 games ive mentioned they have 9 more to play.

im just saying that in terms of improvement liverpool have stepped up further than arsenal have this season

but its very fair to say that arsenal didnt need to take as much of a step up as much as liverpool

Ok but its not what you said.
I will leave it now.... got some work to do.

Paulegend

K-9 wrote: »

6 of one, half a dozen of another as my old maths teacher used to say!

yea when he he was wrong

ronjo wrote: »

Ok but its not what you said.
I will leave it now.... got some work to do.

said big instead of bigger. it changes the meaning of the sentence but if you read any of the rest of what i said youd see that is what i meant.

anyway not worth arguing about

wonderfullife

The vitriol and slagging of Howard Webb is extremely sad.

He's a terrific ref, has been for years, and is on a poor run of form. No different to Suarez going 5 games without scoring or Martinez getting his tactics wrong a few games in a row etc

All ref's make mistakes. All of them. In every game. There's not one ref this season in any game, at any level, who has got every decision right in a game. They make mistakes.

No different to players or managers , it's all about consistency. Webb, lately, has been consistently making errors. He's on a poor run of form. Even despite that, he's made some really good decisions in that period. He correctly sent off Tom Huddlestone. He correctly (in my view) sent Andy Carroll off. He referreed most of those games really well.

It's no different to Suarez doing a lot of things well in matches but not scoring. To ignore any of his positive contributions to slate him for his mistakes is churlish.

For the record, when it comes to consistency over a long period. Unlike Liverpool, Arsenal, United fans who only have a moan at Webb when he makes a mistake when your team is playing, he's consistently one of the best ref's in the world.

THE WORLD’S BEST REFEREE 2013
7. JANUARY 2014
Howard WEBB is the World’s Best Referee 2013

Selected editorial offices and experts from 70 countries and from all the football continents took part in the 2013 annual election for the World’s Best Referee, the 27 th time it has been carried out by the IFFHS. The « Top 10 » come from 9 different countries, only Italy is represented by two referees.

After winning in 2010, his second place in 2011 and his third places in 2009 and 2012, the Englishman Howard Webb is for the second time in his career the World’s Best Referee of the Year 2013. Howard Webb, 42 years old, has been an international referee since 2005 and is one of the youngest referees to begin in the English Premier League. At 27 years, he began as assistant referee and since 2003, he officiates as full referee in the Premier League. He is highly respected in the World of football for his clear-sightedness and for his bright authority. He is incontestably the N°1 referee in the world and has been for the last 5 years.

Nicola RIZZOLI (Italy) took the second place and made a great jump to the Top 3, after an 8th and 10th places in the last two years. At 42 years old, he has a regular progression in his career and he preceded the Hungarian Viktor Kassai (38 years old), who has been the principal competitor of Howard Webb in recent years. Kassai won in 2011, was 5th in 2010 and 4th in 2012. His third place in 2013 proves his recognition in the football world. He leads also a young generation of referees like the German Brych or the Turk Cakir, who were before last year’s winner ,the Portuguese Pedro Proença (place 7 in 2013).

RANKING 2013

Howard WEBB (England): 102 points
Nicola RIZZOLI (Italy): 82 points
Viktor KASSAI (Hungary): 53 points
Felix BRYCH (Germany): 42 points
Cüneyt CAKIR (Turkey): 40 points
Bjorn KUIPERS (Netherlands): 38 points
Pedro PROENCA (Portugal): 35 points
Ravshan IRMATOV ( Uzbekistan): 29 points
Carlos VELASCO CARBALLO (Spain): 22 points
Gianluca ROCCHI (Italy): 17 points


It's pathetic that people slag refs off all the time. Pure pathetic. Those boys were out reffing under-age games with 1 man and a dog watching for years. The likes of Webb have been reffing for the good of the game for over 20 years. Giving up their weekends , despite having full time work, to ref games up and down the country. Without refs, football at all levels wouldnt function but primarily at under-age levels.

Course we're all entitled to have an opinion on a refs performance. But to constantly slate a ref and accuse him of bias is an absolute nonsense and most of you should be ashamed of yourselves for it!!

You weren't out accusing Webb of bias when he was giving up his weekends to run the lines as a Linesman in the East Counties Yorkshire League as an 18 year old. He wasn't biased then and he's not biased now. He tries his best, like Suarez, and they all make mistakes and have bad runs of form.

Nobody in their right mind would want to become a ref reading some of the vitriol aimed at them for making mistakes. And that's what we need. The next generation to want to take part and take up reffing.

Paulegend

wonderfullife wrote: »

The vitriol and slagging of Howard Webb is extremely sad.

He's a terrific ref, has been for years, and is on a poor run of form. No different to Suarez going 5 games without scoring or Martinez getting his tactics wrong a few games in a row etc

All ref's make mistakes. All of them. In every game. There's not one ref this season in any game, at any level, who has got every decision right in a game. They make mistakes.

No different to players or managers , it's all about consistency. Webb, lately, has been consistently making errors. He's on a poor run of form. Even despite that, he's made some really good decisions in that period. He correctly sent off Tom Huddlestone. He correctly (in my view) sent Andy Carroll off. He referreed most of those games really well.

It's no different to Suarez doing a lot of things well in matches but not scoring. To ignore any of his positive contributions to slate him for his mistakes is churlish.

For the record, when it comes to consistency over a long period. Unlike Liverpool, Arsenal, United fans who only have a moan at Webb when he makes a mistake when your team is playing, he's consistently one of the best ref's in the world.

THE WORLD’S BEST REFEREE 2013
7. JANUARY 2014
Howard WEBB is the World’s Best Referee 2013

Selected editorial offices and experts from 70 countries and from all the football continents took part in the 2013 annual election for the World’s Best Referee, the 27 th time it has been carried out by the IFFHS. The « Top 10 » come from 9 different countries, only Italy is represented by two referees.

After winning in 2010, his second place in 2011 and his third places in 2009 and 2012, the Englishman Howard Webb is for the second time in his career the World’s Best Referee of the Year 2013. Howard Webb, 42 years old, has been an international referee since 2005 and is one of the youngest referees to begin in the English Premier League. At 27 years, he began as assistant referee and since 2003, he officiates as full referee in the Premier League. He is highly respected in the World of football for his clear-sightedness and for his bright authority. He is incontestably the N°1 referee in the world and has been for the last 5 years.

Nicola RIZZOLI (Italy) took the second place and made a great jump to the Top 3, after an 8th and 10th places in the last two years. At 42 years old, he has a regular progression in his career and he preceded the Hungarian Viktor Kassai (38 years old), who has been the principal competitor of Howard Webb in recent years. Kassai won in 2011, was 5th in 2010 and 4th in 2012. His third place in 2013 proves his recognition in the football world. He leads also a young generation of referees like the German Brych or the Turk Cakir, who were before last year’s winner ,the Portuguese Pedro Proença (place 7 in 2013).

RANKING 2013

Howard WEBB (England): 102 points
Nicola RIZZOLI (Italy): 82 points
Viktor KASSAI (Hungary): 53 points
Felix BRYCH (Germany): 42 points
Cüneyt CAKIR (Turkey): 40 points
Bjorn KUIPERS (Netherlands): 38 points
Pedro PROENCA (Portugal): 35 points
Ravshan IRMATOV ( Uzbekistan): 29 points
Carlos VELASCO CARBALLO (Spain): 22 points
Gianluca ROCCHI (Italy): 17 points


It's pathetic that people slag refs off all the time. Pure pathetic. Those boys were out reffing under-age games with 1 man and a dog watching for years. The likes of Webb have been reffing for the good of the game for over 20 years. Giving up their weekends , despite having full time work, to ref games up and down the country. Without refs, football at all levels wouldnt function but primarily at under-age levels.

Course we're all entitled to have an opinion on a refs performance. But to constantly slate a ref and accuse him of bias is an absolute nonsense and most of you should be ashamed of yourselves for it!!

You weren't out accusing Webb of bias when he was giving up his weekends to run the lines as a Linesman in the East Counties Yorkshire League as an 18 year old. He wasn't biased then and he's not biased now. He tries his best, like Suarez, and they all make mistakes and have bad runs of form.

Nobody in their right mind would want to become a ref reading some of the vitriol aimed at them for making mistakes. And that's what we need. The next generation to want to take part and take up reffing.

just waiting for the punchline

webb is well paid to do the job he does and he should be slated if he isnt doing that job properly. he is on about 120k a year. thats nothing compared to the players but compared to me and you he is making a lot of cash. hell compared to top politicians he is making a lot of cash.

webb has been making mistakes for years. he ****ed up a world cup final or dont you remember that??

webb has been sh1te for years. how he was ever named one of the best refs is astounding

rob316

Never rated Webb, he is a poor referee imo. Consistently fails with the big decisions in big matches. He was the referee for the last World Cup Final and amazingly didn't send off De Jong for one of the worst tackles you are likely to see. You will probably call it sensible refereeing but that tackle was a disgrace.

rob316

wonderfullife wrote: »

The vitriol and slagging of Howard Webb is extremely sad.

He's a terrific ref, has been for years, and is on a poor run of form. No different to Suarez going 5 games without scoring or Martinez getting his tactics wrong a few games in a row etc

All ref's make mistakes. All of them. In every game. There's not one ref this season in any game, at any level, who has got every decision right in a game. They make mistakes.

No different to players or managers , it's all about consistency. Webb, lately, has been consistently making errors. He's on a poor run of form. Even despite that, he's made some really good decisions in that period. He correctly sent off Tom Huddlestone. He correctly (in my view) sent Andy Carroll off. He referreed most of those games really well.

It's no different to Suarez doing a lot of things well in matches but not scoring. To ignore any of his positive contributions to slate him for his mistakes is churlish.

For the record, when it comes to consistency over a long period. Unlike Liverpool, Arsenal, United fans who only have a moan at Webb when he makes a mistake when your team is playing, he's consistently one of the best ref's in the world.

THE WORLD’S BEST REFEREE 2013
7. JANUARY 2014
Howard WEBB is the World’s Best Referee 2013

Selected editorial offices and experts from 70 countries and from all the football continents took part in the 2013 annual election for the World’s Best Referee, the 27 th time it has been carried out by the IFFHS. The « Top 10 » come from 9 different countries, only Italy is represented by two referees.

After winning in 2010, his second place in 2011 and his third places in 2009 and 2012, the Englishman Howard Webb is for the second time in his career the World’s Best Referee of the Year 2013. Howard Webb, 42 years old, has been an international referee since 2005 and is one of the youngest referees to begin in the English Premier League. At 27 years, he began as assistant referee and since 2003, he officiates as full referee in the Premier League. He is highly respected in the World of football for his clear-sightedness and for his bright authority. He is incontestably the N°1 referee in the world and has been for the last 5 years.

Nicola RIZZOLI (Italy) took the second place and made a great jump to the Top 3, after an 8th and 10th places in the last two years. At 42 years old, he has a regular progression in his career and he preceded the Hungarian Viktor Kassai (38 years old), who has been the principal competitor of Howard Webb in recent years. Kassai won in 2011, was 5th in 2010 and 4th in 2012. His third place in 2013 proves his recognition in the football world. He leads also a young generation of referees like the German Brych or the Turk Cakir, who were before last year’s winner ,the Portuguese Pedro Proença (place 7 in 2013).

RANKING 2013

Howard WEBB (England): 102 points
Nicola RIZZOLI (Italy): 82 points
Viktor KASSAI (Hungary): 53 points
Felix BRYCH (Germany): 42 points
Cüneyt CAKIR (Turkey): 40 points
Bjorn KUIPERS (Netherlands): 38 points
Pedro PROENCA (Portugal): 35 points
Ravshan IRMATOV ( Uzbekistan): 29 points
Carlos VELASCO CARBALLO (Spain): 22 points
Gianluca ROCCHI (Italy): 17 points


It's pathetic that people slag refs off all the time. Pure pathetic. Those boys were out reffing under-age games with 1 man and a dog watching for years. The likes of Webb have been reffing for the good of the game for over 20 years. Giving up their weekends , despite having full time work, to ref games up and down the country. Without refs, football at all levels wouldnt function but primarily at under-age levels.

Course we're all entitled to have an opinion on a refs performance. But to constantly slate a ref and accuse him of bias is an absolute nonsense and most of you should be ashamed of yourselves for it!!

You weren't out accusing Webb of bias when he was giving up his weekends to run the lines as a Linesman in the East Counties Yorkshire League as an 18 year old. He wasn't biased then and he's not biased now. He tries his best, like Suarez, and they all make mistakes and have bad runs of form.

Nobody in their right mind would want to become a ref reading some of the vitriol aimed at them for making mistakes. And that's what we need. The next generation to want to take part and take up reffing.

Ya Im sure he does it out of the goodness of his heart :rolleyes:

wonderfullife

Paulegend wrote: »

just waiting for the punchline

webb is well paid to do the job he does and he should be slated if he isnt doing that job properly. he is on about 120k a year. thats nothing compared to the players but compared to me and you he is making a lot of cash. hell compared to top politicians he is making a lot of cash.

webb has been making mistakes for years. he ****ed up a world cup final or dont you remember that??

webb has been sh1te for years. how he was ever named one of the best refs is astounding

All refs make mistakes for years. All of them. It's about consistency and he makes far less mistakes over the entire season that most.

The reasons his mistakes are higher profile is he's given the highest profile games on a regular basis. So whilst Neil Swarbrick is off making similar mistakes in mid-table clashes with Southampton or Villa, nobody notices or cares.

At some point in time i wish fans would bloody cop on and direct their anger at those deserving of it.

Liverpool didn't lose that match because of Howard Webb. They were 2-0 because they conceded 2 soft goals. They were 2-0 down because, for once, the famous SAS was misfiring.

The fact people try pin it on Webb is hilarious. Take a look at the defending. Take a look at the finishing.

As for the World Cup Final, by all means blame Webb - even though again, that's BS.

It's not Webbs fault that Holland decided to go out onto to the field of play and behave like absolute thugs. Even Cruyff was embarrassed and ashamed by how they played. Any ref in the world was going to struggle to deal with that. His angle wasn't perfect for the De Jong incident and if he had his time over he'd have sent him off. He made a mistake. But the blame for that final is squarely on those Dutch shoulders. Out of their depth and decided to try kick their opponents up and down the pitch, causing difficulty for any ref.

Blaming refs is the easy get out. Blame your own players. If players do their jobs properly, then refs rarely can alter the outcome of a game. If Liverpool took their chances and defended properly they'd have been out of sight, rendering any decision for/against them irrelevant.

wonderfullife

Paulegend wrote: »

just waiting for the punchline

webb is well paid to do the job he does and he should be slated if he isnt doing that job properly. he is on about 120k a year. thats nothing compared to the players but compared to me and you he is making a lot of cash. hell compared to top politicians he is making a lot of cash.

webb has been making mistakes for years. he ****ed up a world cup final or dont you remember that??

webb has been sh1te for years. how he was ever named one of the best refs is astounding

rob316 wrote: »

Ya Im sure he does it out of the goodness of his heart :rolleyes:

It took him 14 years, FOURTEEN, to make to the Premier League as a linesman.

Do you think he was making money ref'ing until then? He deserves whatever he gets paid now he worked hard for it.

Would love to know how many of you slating him are refs. Go out and freeze your balls off every weekend ref'ing u-15 matches whilst getting vitriol off the sidelines from parents and managers for nothing!!

People acting like he swanned into the Premier League on 120k a year. He worked hard to get to where he is. And even now he's on less than most top players make in a week but people prefer to blame him for incidents like yesterday. Go blame Suarez and Sturridge who make as much in a week for not taking their chances. Go blame the back 4 for defending like a pub team.

rob316

A ref is human I absolutely understand that but he had a perfect view of the challenge on suarez yesterday and bottled it. Why?

All ref's make mistakes but the reason Webb is given these games is because he is far less likely to make mistakes in big situations.
I don't know who is the best ref but I know for certain Webb is not, its media propaganda that tells us he is.
Look at any big match its very rare he isn't been criticised for something.

Gringo180

Anybody who says Howard Webb is a bad referee is talking absolute nonsense. Look at how he handled the Sterling situation yesterday, he could of easily sent him off but used a bit of common sense in calling Gerrard over to defuse the situation. Liverpools second penalty shout was a stone waller, but Suarez didnt help himself with his theatrics rolling around the ground as if he was hit by a train!!!

wonderfullife

rob316 wrote: »

A ref is human I absolutely understand that but he had a perfect view of the challenge on suarez yesterday and bottled it. Why?

All ref's make mistakes but the reason Webb is given these games is because he is far less likely to make mistakes in big situations.
I don't know who is the best ref but I know for certain Webb is not, its media propaganda that tells us he is.
Look at any big match its very rare he isn't been criticised for something.

Media propoganda yet the IFHH award i linked you to was voted for by a panel of experts from 70 different countries. So 69 other countries must also be promoting this propoganda!! Bull.

He didn't "bottle it", he looked at the incident and thought it was either a) a coming together b) suarez making a meal of it or c) not worthy of a penalty.

It was , in my view, a definite penalty.

It's very rare ANY ref isn't criticised for something in a big game.

Mark Clattenburg gets it in the neck every big match he takes.

It's a rare exception when a ref comes out of a big match with universal acclaim. Mostly he upsets one (or both) sets of managers and fans with decisions.

rob316

wonderfullife wrote: »

It took him 14 years, FOURTEEN, to make to the Premier League as a linesman.

Do you think he was making money ref'ing until then? He deserves whatever he gets paid now he worked hard for it.

Would love to know how many of you slating him are refs. Go out and freeze your balls off every weekend ref'ing u-15 matches whilst getting vitriol off the sidelines from parents and managers for nothing!!

People acting like he swanned into the Premier League on 120k a year. He worked hard to get to where he is. And even now he's on less than most top players make in a week but people prefer to blame him for incidents like yesterday. Go blame Suarez and Sturridge who make as much in a week for not taking their chances. Go blame the back 4 for defending like a pub team.

You will have no complaints from me about suarez and sturridge not taking there chances yesterday or joke shop defending. I have much respect for referee's its not an easy job, my issue is making blinding obvious bad calls which costs a team a result like yesterday.

You know what I want, I want to hear referees come out after a game and say I got it wrong. Players are held accountable for there actions why aren't referees? If that means they should be paid more, they should do it because there is too much at stake in the modern game.

TimeToShine

I don't agree with you in saying that Webb is a good or even great referee but I do think that some of the abuse and vitriol is well over the top. He is trying his best, and it's difficult to get everything right when you have the likes of Suarez doing a Jurgen Klinsmann impression every time he's in the box. Could you imagine the abuse the ref would get if he had dived and he'd awarded the penalty?

wonderfullife

rob316 wrote: »

You will have no complaints from me about suarez and sturridge not taking there chances yesterday or joke shop defending. I have much respect for referee's its not an easy job, my issue is making blinding obvious bad calls which costs a team a result like yesterday.

You know what I want, I want to hear referees come out after a game and say I got it wrong. Players are held accountable for there actions why aren't referees? If that means they should be paid more, they should do it because there is too much at stake in the modern game.

Ok , so if Howard Webb was interviewed after the game, what do you think he'd be asked?

He'd be asked:

Why did you award the first penalty?
Why did you not award the second penalty?
Why was Steven Gerrard not issued with a second yellow?

To which his answers wouldn't make any difference. He could say "i felt it was a penno first one, thought the 2nd was a coming together, and i felt stevie g didnt deserve a second yellow for that tackle".

Those answers wouldn't do a thing to change peoples minds. More to the point, as a referree he CAN'T come out and say "well tbh Suarez rolled around like he was shot so whilst my initial thought was penno, on reflection the theatrics made me think "hold on, maybe not".

He can't say that! so he's already hamstrung if he comes out to speak.

More to the point, refs would only be asked about decisions they got blatantly wrong.

That's very different from most interviews with players and managers. Players on the winning side, are usually asked about their goals/assists/thoughts on the performance. Players on the losing side will usually be asked what they did wrong, what they did right, were they unlucky etc.

I.e. there would be no upshot for refs in an interview. It'd be an interrogation.

I'd have no problem with it if interviewers were fair and balanced.

So, i.e., interviewer says:

What made you not award the 2nd penno?

You handled the Sterling situation well, what made you do that?
You played a good advantage which led to a chance, were you close to whistling up?

etc

I'm all for refs coming out if it's done fairly and balanced. If it's a pure inquistion of controversial decisions then no. That's not right or fair.

Gringo180

Gringo180 wrote: »

Anybody who says Howard Webb is a bad referee is talking absolute nonsense. Look at how he handled the Sterling situation yesterday, he could of easily sent him off but used a bit of common sense in calling Gerrard over to defuse the situation. Liverpools second penalty shout was a stone waller, but Suarez didnt help himself with his theatrics rolling around the ground as if he was hit by a train!!!

It was a stone waller regardless of whether Suarez did a backflip in a pike position.

It's either a foul or it isn't.

As I said yesterday he was poor for both teams.

wonderfullife

rarnes1 wrote: »

It was a stone waller regardless of whether Suarez did a backflip in a pike position.

It's either a foul or it isn't.

As I said yesterday he was poor for both teams.

Players doing triple axel, triple salchow, double toe loops after being fouled make it much more difficult to tell if there's been a foul in the first place.

If players want to carry on like figure skaters rolling and jumping around the place and "falling upwards" the whole time with arms outstretched and body contorted, then they need to learn fast that if it appears to be a dive, or appears to be a player making the most of minimal contact, then it'll be construed that way by the refs.

There's no way on earth you can attempt to argue he fell in a natural way. None. He added theatrics. Ultimately he did himself out of the penno. Which was a stonewall.

5live

wonderfullife wrote: »

Players doing triple axel, triple salchow, double toe loops after being fouled make it much more difficult to tell if there's been a foul in the first place.

If players want to carry on like figure skaters rolling and jumping around the place and "falling upwards" the whole time with arms outstretched and body contorted, then they need to learn fast that if it appears to be a dive, or appears to be a player making the most of minimal contact, then it'll be construed that way by the refs.

There's no way on earth you can attempt to argue he fell in a natural way. None. He added theatrics. Ultimately he did himself out of the penno. Which was a stonewall.

Yup, i have to agree.

Best of luck to the Arsenal on their way to the final and hopefully winning it.

This thread reminds me why i avoid match threads.

*unfollow*

Knex*

Gringo180 wrote: »

Anybody who says Howard Webb is a bad referee is talking absolute nonsense. Look at how he handled the Sterling situation yesterday, he could of easily sent him off but used a bit of common sense in calling Gerrard over to defuse the situation.

Wut?

Gringo180 wrote: »

Liverpools second penalty shout was a stone waller, but Suarez didnt help himself with his theatrics rolling around the ground as if he was hit by a train!!!

Well, he was hit by an Ox...

*gets coat*

gosplan

Paulegend wrote: »

well you could say that but thats not the point.

the point is liverpool have improved (and needed to big time) more than arsenal have

if you where to bet on either team to finish on the same points and in the same position as last season. which team would you get better odds??

liverpool need 8 points and 5 goals to match last season
arsenal need 17 points and 24 goals to match last season

there is more of a chance that arsenal could have the same season as last year than liverpool could

What is the point in this, seriously?

Are you just arguing that Liverpool have made bigger steps forward than Arsenal this year?

Is that how petty you are?

Soups123

For the love of god someone please lock the thread