England vs Ireland buildup*read warning post 1*

ssaye2

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Covers 6/7/8 in the same way as TOD and Ruddock do, ie, not very well

Ruddock and TOD are a step above Muprhy right now. I don't have any issues with him coming on for the last ten minutes but I'd be worried if one of our starters got injured

Joe must think different if true for the gameplan

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

ssaye2 wrote: »

Joe must think different if true for the gameplan

Well if it's true he's hardly selecting him for any other reason! :P

ssaye2

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Well if it's true he's hardly selecting him for any other reason! :P

Touche

Quint2010

No way Murphy will be on the bench. Would be a crazy call.

ssaye2

Quint2010 wrote: »

No way Murphy will be on the bench. Would be a crazy call.

Its curveball Joe, he's crazy, never ever ever try and second guess him :pac:

rrpc

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Covers 6/7/8 in the same way as TOD and Ruddock do, ie, not very well

Ruddock and TOD are a step above Muprhy right now. I don't have any issues with him coming on for the last ten minutes but I'd be worried if one of our starters got injured

Reading some of the comments from Les Kiss et al, the subs seem to have a much higher importance than we would expect (normally). They are prepared as if they are playing the full 80 and are expected to give full attention to what's going on on the pitch.

I don't know if that's got any bearing on this possible selection, but it may be a factor.

Quint2010

ssaye2 wrote: »

Its curveball Joe, he's crazy, never ever ever try and second guess him :pac:

Never played for Ireland. Severely doubt Schmidt would throw him in against one of the biggest packs in world rugby-away from home.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

It's not even that he hasn't played for Ireland. I just don't think Murphy has the workrate required at this level yet. He was really poor in that regard against the Dragon's

Ruddock would have been my choice

ssaye2

Quint2010 wrote: »

Never played for Ireland. Severely doubt Schmidt would throw him in against one of the biggest packs in world rugby-away from home.

We'll see, sure Thomond started all this

And their pack height and weight is very comparable to Irelands at the moment.

Vunipola would be bigger than nearly every other 8 on the planet bar 1 probably so thats not Murphy fault.

Orlaw3136

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

It's not even that he hasn't played for Ireland. I just don't think Murphy has the workrate required at this level yet. He was really poor in that regard against the Dragon's

Ruddock would have been my choice

I would have said he has a serious pair of lungs on him and of all that can be said of him, he doesn't suffer from a lack of participation either at the breakdown or in the loose.

Not saying he ought necessarily be picked...unless Joe says he should...in which case I'll take it.

former legend

ssaye2 wrote: »

Its curveball Joe, he's crazy, never ever ever try and second guess him :pac:

But has he really thrown any curveballs in his time as Ireland coach? Or even in his latter years as Leinster coach?

I'd be shocked if Murphy got the bench spot, but maybe he'll travel as extra cover.

Quint2010

ssaye2 wrote: »

We'll see, sure Thomond started all this

And their pack height and weight is very comparable to Irelands at the moment.

Vunipola would be bigger than nearly every other 8 on the planet bar 1 probably so thats not Murphy fault.

TOD is way ahead of Murphy right now and has looked comfortable and done when coming on in our two matches so far.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Orlaw3136 wrote: »

I would have said he has a serious pair of lungs on him and of all that can be said of him, he doesn't suffer from a lack of participation either at the breakdown or in the loose.

Not saying he ought necessarily be picked...unless Joe says he should...in which case I'll take it.

I don't think it's a fitness thing, I'm sure it will come with experience but he just wasn't effective at the breakdown last week against the Dragons

ssaye2

former legend wrote: »

But has he really thrown any curveballs in his time as Ireland coach? Or even in his latter years as Leinster coach?

I'd be shocked if Murphy got the bench spot, but maybe he'll travel as extra cover.

Ask Thomond?

Quint2010

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I don't think it's a fitness thing, I'm sure it will come with experience but he just wasn't effective at the breakdown last week against the Dragons

So it's not even as though he has come off a barnstorming display to turn Schmidt's head? He definitely has talent but not ready yet.

rrpc

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I don't think it's a fitness thing, I'm sure it will come with experience but he just wasn't effective at the breakdown last week against the Dragons

I didn't see that match, but he's been very effective at the breakdown this season and had some massive turnovers.

He's also very mobile and has a good scoring record.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Quint2010 wrote: »

So it's not even as though he has come off a barnstorming display to turn Schmidt's head? He definitely has talent but not ready yet.

Nope, in fact it was actually one of his poorest games for Leinster!

Quint2010

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Nope, in fact it was actually one of his poorest games for Leinster!

How would people see him as an improvement on what TOD offers?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

rrpc wrote: »

I didn't see that match, but he's been very effective at the breakdown this season and had some massive turnovers.

He's also very mobile and has a good scoring record.

Not talking about turnovers, I'm talking about hitting rucks and defense while we're in defense

I've no doubt that will come but Ruddock and TOD are more rounded players right now

Podge_irl

Hmm...don't understand that call if true. Even ignoring TOD (who I honestly don't know that well as a player), Ruddock is a much better player at the moment.

The Pheasant2

Podge_irl wrote: »

Hmm...don't understand that call if true. Even ignoring TOD (who I honestly don't know that well as a player), Ruddock is a much better player at the moment.

Murphy over Ruddock could be for Jordi's versatility - becuase realistically it's just for injury cover. Ruddock really is a specialist 6 whereas Jordi plays everywhere in the backrow and has played 7 (his worst position) reasonably well at HC level

decisions

I thought Jordi had a chance of a cap v Italy, but I'd be amazed if he was on the bench this weekend. But then again it's Joe, so who knows.

molloyjh

I'd be surprised if he was anything more than squad cover.

That said we'd have been surprised if D Kearney was anything more than squad cover not so long ago....

former legend

Quint2010 wrote: »

How would people see him as an improvement on what TOD offers?

I think Murphy might have a more physical edge to his game than TOD but I don't see that being enough to get him into the squad.

That said, I'd have thought Murphy would be behind Ruddock and it appears that's not the case.

andymx11

molloyjh wrote: »

I'd be surprised if he was anything more than squad cover.

That said we'd have been surprised if D Kearney was anything more than squad cover not so long ago....

Is there a number limit on squad cover? Also is there any rules on pulling someone out on the day e.g must go through a medical to prove he isnt fit to take part? Apologies if this is a stupid question, it's just something I was never sure of.

awec

andymx11 wrote: »

Is there a number limit on squad cover? Also is there any rules on pulling someone out on the day e.g must go through a medical to prove he isnt fit to take part? Apologies if this is a stupid question, it's just something I was never sure of.

I think the only limit is that you have 23 players in a match day squad and you can have as many players on stand by for injuries as you want.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

POM is outside my house with Conor Murray and Martin Moore (only guessing this one, housemate said "big fat prop fella") according to my housemate. We live next to a place that sells horseboxes, they use our drive as a parking lot because the guy that owns it is my landlord

God only knows that they're doing in Naas

awec

Buying a horsebox?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

ssaye2 wrote: »

Lunch as they were in Carton? They go to a restaurant in maynooth and NAAS a fair bit I hear

Not much in the way of anywhere to eat where they parked!

Rattlehead_ie

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Not much in the way of anywhere to eat where they parked!

again maybe the horsebox

Volvic12

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Not much in the way of anywhere to eat where they parked!

Could be going to the races in Punchestown?
On today from 2pm

Grimebox

Was McCarthy in the mix in the AI's? I can't remember. He seems to have completely fallen out of favour regardless

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Grimebox wrote: »

Was McCarthy in the mix in the AI's? I can't remember. He seems to have completely fallen out of favour regardless

He was ahead of Touhy and started the Samoan game AFAIR

Grimebox

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

He was ahead of Touhy and started the Samoan game AFAIR

He hasn't been setting the world on fire in a while in fairness

LostArt

Grimebox wrote: »

He hasn't been setting the world on fire in a while in fairness

He was in great form before the cut to his face

former legend

Grimebox wrote: »

He hasn't been setting the world on fire in a while in fairness

That's not correct, he had been in very good form and would have been ahead of Tuohy for the 6N had he not picked up an injury against the Ospreys two weeks before the Scotland match.

.ak

Before the stamping incident I would be as bold to say he was the inform lock in the country. Defo the best 'grunt' lock we had anyway.

But then his head went septic, missed out on training, and dropped off a bit in fitness. Thought he had a great game against the Dragons myself, but obviously they don't think he's fit enough.

TheGoldenAges

Isn't it a great thing now though where in most positions players who are coming back aren't put right into the team and they're able to play a few games with the provinces and regain form and match sharpness.

molloyjh

TheGoldenAges wrote: »

Isn't it a great thing now though where in most positions players who are coming back aren't put right into the team and they're able to play a few games with the provinces and regain form and match sharpness.

It is. The vast majority of the squad have to prove they deserve the jersey before getting it, be that getting it to start with or getting it back. The obvious exceptions being the likes of POC, Drico and SOB. It's really positive stuff.

rrpc

TheGoldenAges wrote: »

Isn't it a great thing now though where in most positions players who are coming back aren't put right into the team and they're able to play a few games with the provinces and regain form and match sharpness.

Well if you look at the 33 in the training squad, you've the guts of two pretty good teams there, especially in the forwards. It kind of tails of a little in the backs with fullback and the centres not as experienced but still useful.

And that's without the likes of Strauss, Archer, Copeland, SOB, Marmion, Fitz, Bowe, Zebo, FitzPatrick etc. etc.

Orlaw3136

Quint2010 wrote: »

How would people see him as an improvement on what TOD offers?

Ref Jordi Murphy, I think he has more pace about him than TOD.

Any other perceived strengths/weaknesses are probably very subjective.

That said Murphy does have this pretty marked athletic ability to turn up in support of fast men out wide following a line bust/recovered kick or the like, which I think is one of his strengths. Also think his longer range passing (by which I mean not off-loading) is better than TOD.

He's said to cover 6/7/8 as well but I'd see him as a 7 in the Fergus Slattery mode and think he could be great.

I wouldn't pick him in the squad this weekend though. He's not at the same point in his development as his competitor(s) but in due course I think he'll be a first choice pick.

.ak

I think the key question is... Who'd win in a fight, Jordi or Tommy?

sydthebeat

.ak wrote: »

I think the key question is... Who'd win in a fight, Jordi or Tommy?

queensbury rules... murphy

but those tipp lads can be dirty feckers in a free for all

cp

sullivlo wrote: »

I'd say Ryan is in the squad to start the Schmitification. He wasn't in the AI squad (IIRC?) so isn't likely to have had any interaction with Joe. I'd say Joe just wants to see what he's made of and start introducing him to the system. He will likely be released to Munster.

Honestly made me think of this..

accidentprone1

.ak wrote: »

I think the key question is... Who'd win in a fight, Jordi or Tommy?

'Fella I'm in college with loves to go on about the time Tommy came back for hurling training after time in the academy and how he shouldered like a house. So just for his sake, I'll go with TOD.

astonaidan

.ak wrote: »

I think the key question is... Who'd win in a fight, Jordi or Tommy?

Well ones from munster so it should be obvious

Zzippy

Is there a doubt over Healy for this weekend? Heard his ankle was a concern, then I see him tweeting about the breakfast pancakes his missus made for him today, when I thought he would have been in camp... Do they have a day off training today, are the Dublin-based lads allowed stay at home??

Hagz

I'm fairly sure they are allowed go home. I think I saw an interview with Healy where he said he mostly goes home.

EDIT: This video here. Although he doesn't say he mostly goes home, he says "when you can't get home after training"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fR_gxWlMac

schmanga

so unchanged team then with bench of mcgrath, cronin, moore, henderson, TOD, Boss, Jackson, Henshaw/McFadden
If Henshaw was training in BOD's position yesterday?????
I'd go for McFadden, he's proven at this level.

thomond2006

If Ireland beat England then I think there will be some leeway to make changes to the bench for Italy. Henshaw on for BOD or Kearney after 60 minutes would be good!