weanling prices

Robson99

TITANIUM. wrote: »

They might, your probably right there.
But I have to disagree with you that cattle are to dear at the moment. Look at what it costs in time and money etc to breed a good weanling. Keeping his mother is the big one of course. Depending on the farm that's between 500 and 750 approximately. And that's before we get into the calf itself.
Jesus now that I think about it, Cattle are dirt cheap at the moment.

I would like to see farmers breeding good weanlings getting well paid for them and I will pay for quality when buying. But if I'm not making a pound out of it and the factories don't up their prices then there is only so long that I, the middle man will suffer.
If its costing you 750e to keep a cow then you need to look at why its costing that. I'm not saying your one of them but there are a lot of suckler farmers out there who are nit doing enough to maximise their profits imo

Robson99

TMSHope wrote: »

Went for a look at the weekend in Dowra. Overall prices seem to be back 100-150 euro a head for weanlings compared to last year.

Examples of some Weanling bull prices. This is best I saw for bulls while I was there. These were €2.40 to €2.60 per kilo.

BB born Sept 2013 was 500kgs sold for €1,300
Charolais born Jan 2014 400kgs sold for €1,000
Charolais born April 2014 340kgs sold for €815

What were heifers like?

Dawggone

Sorry for jumping in on a thread.
I helped an elderly neighbor this morning to load weanling Charolais Bulls destined for Italy. They were on average about 350kg. He received €1680/hd.
Organic and gm free. Big market for them to Italy.

Reggie.

Dawggone wrote: »

Sorry for jumping in on a thread.
I helped an elderly neighbor this morning to load weanling Charolais Bulls destined for Italy. They were on average about 350kg. He received €1680/hd.
Organic and gm free. Big market for them to Italy.

We are hardly getting shafted

Farmer Pudsey

I understand where the weanling producer is coming from. However finishers have to work to a margin. Take the 340kg Ch at 815 euro. At 680 kgs he will kill about 375kgs. The trouble is that he in general will need to go into the shed for 60-100 days at the end on 2015. At 4.25/kg he be making 1590 euro. That leaves 775 euro. However we are nowhere near that at present. Lads moving them at the moment are getting around 1450 for such cattle. That leaves 630 to cover costs. Take out 80 euro for transport, mortality, mart and slaughter fees, and vets fees.

120 day winter at 1.2/day that is 144 euro, 80 days next winter at 2.8/day is 224. Throw in 150 for grazing and ration fist autumn and 50 euro for fixed costs. That is 648 euro. The lad doing it for that is running a tight ship he is losing 50/head. At 4.25/kg he is making 90 euro.

Is it time to get rid of the suckler cow except for export weanlings.

Brass Tag

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I understand where the weanling producer is coming from. However finishers have to work to a margin. Take the 340kg Ch at 815 euro. At 680 kgs he will kill about 375kgs. The trouble is that he in general will need to go into the shed for 60-100 days at the end on 2015. At 4.25/kg he be making 1590 euro. That leaves 775 euro. However we are nowhere near that at present. Lads moving them at the moment are getting around 1450 for such cattle. That leaves 630 to cover costs. Take out 80 euro for transport, mortality, mart and slaughter fees, and vets fees.

120 day winter at 1.2/day that is 144 euro, 80 days next winter at 2.8/day is 224. Throw in 150 for grazing and ration fist autumn and 50 euro for fixed costs. That is 648 euro. The lad doing it for that is running a tight ship he is losing 50/head. At 4.25/kg he is making 90 euro.

Is it time to get rid of the suckler cow except for export weanlings.

No!!

It's time for Phil Hogan as agriculture commissioner to deliver on the threats / promises he made in Brussels last week.

Time to tame the power and capability of the multiples and processors to manipulate beef markets at a whim to unjustly maximise their own profits to the detriment of farmers.

Step up Mr. Hogan!!!

bogman_bass

farmingmad10 wrote: »

you wont make much profit letting land for a lad to make silage off as their is no money in making silage to sell so hes hardly going to pay much money for land. if u buy heifers you can buy 320kg heifers under €800 but some top ones will make over €800. try not give over €800 because if meal went up a lot next year it would leave harder to make a good profit margin. would soon want to buy though a lot of farmers don't get cattle out early enough imo but if you got them out 1st april graze for 240 days put on .9kg lw/day on grass costing 30c/day (but may have to supplement with meal towards end to achieve .9kg) then ad lib meal for 100 days they would surely be v close to 350kg carcass weight at €4.00/kg they would make €1,400. they would cost €72 grass, €10 medicines, €367 for ad lib meal based on current price of €245/t for a finisher ration. they would eat 2kg straw/day with meal if bought at €15/bale 4x4 round weighing 150kg the cost/kg would be 10c. at 2kg the cost per animal is 20c/day €20 euro for 100 days. for beddng for 100 days say 1 bale/animal at €15. that leaves €96 & no fixed costs included. you would want to feed meal with a wheelbarrow or something feed cattle during daylight to reduce electricity. meal feeding generally has lower fixed cost though. its a tight margin game beef & paying too much on the day of purchase can destroy profit potential. my advice is to buy friesan bullocks their not as pleasing on the eye but when its all added up theirs a better margin in them. own labour not included as it couldn't be justified & the profit of the cattle would be the reward for labour & the capital tied up in the busisness.

You're giving heifers adlib meal for 100 days?

TMSHope

Robson99 wrote: »

What were heifers like?

Few example weanling heifer prices from Dowra

Limo Heifer Jan 14 born 290kgs 712 euro
Charolais Heifer Feb born 260kgs 670 euro

jay gatsby

From my reading of the various threads here it would appear that there is no room for 2 margins in the chain of production in this country (at the moment at least). The suckler man is at one time attempting to control costs of keeping cow and rearing calf while at the same time trying to drive on the weanling to max weight by 6-9months old to get a decent sales price.

The buyer then has to expend serious costs as finishing time must be kept as short as possible. All the while there are at least 2 lots of transport costs, 2 lots of commission, extra vets fees for testing/stress related illness etc.

IS there room for a suckler to finishing farm? You halve all the above costs, you can develop a cow type to suit land etc. and control feeding rates etc. in the finishing cattle to suit your own goals and market conditions. Is it only land type and farm size that rules out this system for people?
You are obviously keeping the offspring longer but sale cost is close to doubled while the finishing man is carrying more stock he can't sell but cashflow is improved as the big outlay in the mart is gone.

_Brian

Sami23 wrote: »

Where are you coming up with the figure of between 500 to 750 to keep a cow per year :eek: ?

I think it's now widely accepted that this figure is accurate. Both by advisory folks and farmers keeping decent detailed accurate accounts.

The last time we had cows and ran the numbers it was costing €575 to get a weanling to the sales, that was 2009, I doubt it's got cheaper. Was talking to a lad last week and he said between €650-700 , including transport and a wee bit of creep.

Reggie.

_Brian wrote: »

I think it's now widely accepted that this figure is accurate. Both by advisory folks and farmers keeping decent detailed accurate accounts.

The last time we had cows and ran the numbers it was costing €575 to get a weanling to the sales, that was 2009, I doubt it's got cheaper. Was talking to a lad last week and he said between €650-700 , including transport and a wee bit of creep.

I think I worked out my suck calves cost me in the region of €650 to rear. That is to 16 months and probably missing a few costs tho.

TITANIUM.

Sami23 wrote: »

Where are you coming up with the figure of between 500 to 750 to keep a cow per year :eek: ?

Add all costs up and youll surprise yourself.
Teagasc etc if you want to check it out.

TITANIUM.

Reggie. wrote: »

I think I worked out my suck calves cost me in the region of €650 to rear. That is to 16 months and probably missing a few costs tho.

Are you including purchase costs in that?

Reggie.

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Are you including purchase costs in that?

Yeah of €250

TITANIUM.

Reggie. wrote: »

Yeah of €250

Not so bad all in.
At the very least you know how much everything's costing and make informed decisions on same.

Did you take those animals to the mart last week in the end.

Reggie.

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Not so bad all in.
At the very least you know how much everything's costing and make informed decisions on same.

Did you take those animals to the mart last week in the end.

Yeah sold 4. Holding 2 till next March. Piggy bank for the start of year

_Brian

Brass Tag wrote: »

No!!

It's time for Phil Hogan as agriculture commissioner to deliver on the threats / promises he made in Brussels last week.

Time to tame the power and capability of the multiples and processors to manipulate beef markets at a whim to unjustly maximise their own profits to the detriment of farmers.

Step up Mr. Hogan!!!

Hope your not holding your hand on your arse waiting for him to deliver on anything.

TITANIUM.

Reggie. wrote: »

Yeah sold 4. Holding 2 till next March. Piggy bank for the start of year

You sold at a good time fair play to you.
Were you happy enough?
Stuck with a dose of wealings this winter myself on account of being locked up.

Reggie.

TITANIUM. wrote: »

You sold at a good time fair play to you.
Were you happy enough?
Stuck with a dose of wealings this winter myself on account of being locked up.

Yeah avg price of €1.96 per kg. Just shy of my €2 but room for improvement for next year.

Sami23

Reggie. wrote: »

Yeah avg price of €1.96 per kg. Just shy of my €2 but room for improvement for next year.

Good weights for bucket reared calves Reggie

Reggie.

Sami23 wrote: »

Good weights for bucket reared calves Reggie

Yeah was happy myself for 17 months. Two left here are approx 420 to 450kg. Let them roam the fields for a few months and see how big they get. Still be 22 months next March.

Sami23

We're they on much meal ?

Reggie.

Sami23 wrote: »

We're they on much meal ?

I give them 1 kg a day that they are here from when they are able for it. Up it to 3 kg 2-3 weeks before selling. Bucket reared cattle need a little more kick to get the weight on them. It was an experiment last year and I think it works alright. This year I'm gonna out winter them if i can to see what difference that makes.

Miname

Fair play reggie.

Reggie.

This is my rough breakdown.
Purchase €250
Vet fees €50
Straw €20 ...............1 and a half bales
Silage €60................3 bales
Meal €120 approx..480kg of bull beef ration
Fert €40
Misc €100
Total €640 per animal at 16 months.

naughto

3 bales of silage?

Reggie.

naughto wrote: »

3 bales of silage?

Over the winter per animal. I used 18 bales last year with 6 animals

Miname

What about the running costs of that massey

Reggie.

Miname wrote: »

What about the running costs of that massey

That's the thing the costs are only from what I'm sure of. The contracting side takes care of the machinery I have.

Bodacious

Reggie. wrote: »

Yeah avg price of €1.96 per kg. Just shy of my €2 but room for improvement for next year.

reggie..


that's serious good weight especially the first lad .. what breed was he? I had suckler ai bred may 13 white char that only got grass but didn't weigh as much as him

Reggie.

Bodacious wrote: »

reggie..


that's serious good weight especially the first lad .. what breed was he? I had suckler ai bred may 13 white char that only got grass but didn't weigh as much as him

All AAX bullocks of FR heifers off a local farmer

tanko

Reggie. wrote: »

All AAX bullocks of FR heifers off a local farmer

What does that lad do with his AAX heifers? They'd make nice cows.

Reggie.

tanko wrote: »

What does that lad do with his AAX heifers? They'd make nice cows.

Keeps some sells others as calves

TITANIUM.

Reggie. wrote: »

Yeah avg price of €1.96 per kg. Just shy of my €2 but room for improvement for next year.

Good man yourself. That first lad must have been a nice animal.
Did you post a pic of them somewhere if memory serves me correctly?

severeoversteer

Reggie. wrote: »

All AAX bullocks of FR heifers off a local farmer

at what age did you squeeze them, burdizzo, lamb rings or banding?

Reggie.

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Good man yourself. That first lad must have been a nice animal.
Did you post a pic of them somewhere if memory serves me correctly?

Yeah think it was on the photo thread
Page 26

Reggie.

severeoversteer wrote: »

at what age did you squeeze them, burdizzo, lamb rings or banding?

Burdizzo but can't rightly remember what age they were.

severeoversteer

Reggie. wrote: »

Burdizzo but can't rightly remember what age they were.

either ways they did well for you, neighbour reared some angus calves here and they are no bigger than when he got them

might investigate rearing some calves here myself if I can find some space

Reggie.

severeoversteer wrote: »

either ways they did well for you, neighbour reared some angus calves here and they are no bigger than when he got them

might investigate rearing some calves here myself if I can find some space

Not to sound repetitive but keep it simple. I spend about 15 mins a weekday farming. Most of Saturday and Sunday are my farming days

severeoversteer

Reggie. wrote: »

Not to sound repetitive but keep it simple. I spend about 15 mins a weekday farming. Most of Saturday and Sunday are my farming days

farming is therapy for myself and the auld lad

our heads would burst if we didn't take some time out to do a bit out on the land or knock around the yard

helps clear the head

RobinBanks

slightly off topic here but I am selling some bulls this weekend and noticed one of the bulls is very dirty behind even though I have followed a good worm vaccination program over the summer. Strange that one out of the bunch would be like this.

Would this deter potential buyers from bidding?

tanko

It's not going to help him anyway. Would giving him a sulpha powder help to dry him up. They usually work pretty quick.

Brass Tag

RobinBanks wrote: »

slightly off topic here but I am selling some bulls this weekend and noticed one of the bulls is very dirty behind even though I have followed a good worm vaccination program over the summer. Strange that one out of the bunch would be like this.

Would this deter potential buyers from bidding?

I'm seeing that also. One guy very dirty over a month ago. Cleaned up though.
Last Saturday morning 7 out of 9 were very dirty and loose. Fair bit of rain though previous few days and grass wet and perhaps running through them a bit.
All well dosed and so on. Very disappointed with that.

I moved them onto shorter grass field and threw them a bale of straw. Getting meal also.
Seemed drier yesterday. Still I'll have to hose down and brush the rear end before presenting for sale and hope they keep dryish in that dept from now on.

Farmer Pudsey

Brass Tag wrote: »

I'm seeing that also. One guy very dirty over a month ago. Cleaned up though.
Last Saturday morning 7 out of 9 were very dirty and loose. Fair bit of rain though previous few days and grass wet and perhaps running through them a bit.
All well dosed and so on. Very disappointed with that.

I moved them onto shorter grass field and threw them a bale of straw. Getting meal also.
Seemed drier yesterday. Still I'll have to hose down and brush the rear end before presenting for sale and hope they keep dryish in that dept from now on.

Copper can help also. Have noticed that if you give cattle a bit in September it helps to prevent them getting too looose

Brass Tag

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Copper can help also. Have noticed that if you give cattle a bit in September it helps to prevent them getting too looose

Hmm!! In a so called molybdenum area and spread whole farm with gran lime in spring. Wonder if it is suppressing copper uptake? Just thinking out loud as just don't remember such dirty ends in cattle previous years in wetter conditions.
How do you administer? Injection?

AP2014

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Copper can help also. Have noticed that if you give cattle a bit in September it helps to prevent them getting too looose

Can you get any licks for copper or does it have to be an injection?

Farmer Pudsey

Brass Tag wrote: »

Hmm!! In a so called molybdenum area and spread whole farm with gran lime in spring. Wonder if it is suppressing copper uptake? Just thinking out loud as just don't remember such dirty ends in cattle previous years in wetter conditions.
How do you administer? Injection?

Injection is about the handiest way generally.

AP2014 wrote: »

Can you get any licks for copper or does it have to be an injection?

I used make up my own get sulphate of copper(bluestone) and dissolve 1 level T-Spoon/ 5 animals(450-500kg cattle adjust for weight) in hot water add to molasses and either sprinkle accross ration once/week or put in troughs once/week and allow them to lick it.

However all cattle need access all the time excess copper is dangerous to cattle.

AP2014

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Injection is about the handiest way generally.



I used make up my own get sulphate of copper(bluestone) and dissolve 1 level T-Spoon/ 5 animals(450-500kg cattle adjust for weight) in hot water add to molasses and either sprinkle accross ration once/week or put in troughs once/week and allow them to lick it.

However all cattle need access all the time excess copper is dangerous to cattle.

Cheers Pudsey, believe it or not never injected an animal yet so will have to take a crash course soon. Thanks.

Nettleman

AP2014 wrote: »

Cheers Pudsey, believe it or not never injected an animal yet so will have to take a crash course soon. Thanks.

Excellent....a farmer/herd owner who doesn't know how to use a needle, my hat off to you lad, yours is a tight ship

AP2014

Nettleman wrote: »

Excellent....a farmer/herd owner who doesn't know how to use a needle, my hat off to you lad, yours is a tight ship

Never used one, vet or neighbour if an animal sick. I am part timer and have no problem in admitting I leave it to the pros.

Do my best to keep them healthy though and use pour-ons. Find pour-on is less stressful on animal as well. Debatable whether it works as well.