Congress 2014

rebel girl 15

Congress 2014 is on Friday 21st Feb and Saturday 22nd Feb - 63 motions to be discussed including some ones that will be seen as controversial.

The full list is here, but here is a few of the more interesting ones

Motion 3 - hooter in hurling games

Motion 27 - piloting of online transfer system

Motion 35 - match bans extended to club level, replicating the current system at inter county

Motion 40 - Anthony Nash motion regarding penalties in hurling

Motion 41 - interfering with a faceguard is a red card

Motion 42 - racist and sectarian abuse defined as being a red card offense

Motion 43 - Connacht propose no alcohol sponsorship on the jersies of underage players

Motion 53 - minor being changed to under 17 age grouping

Motion 59 - match day panels being 30 for senior intercounty



As Liam O Neill will be entering into his final year, the next president will be elected. Cavan’s Aogán Ó Feargail is backed by Ulster GAA, Seán Walsh nominated by Kerry, Sheamus Howlin through Wexford nomination.

Other issue that should be discussed is the integration of all Gaelic Games within Ireland, haven't seen the clar regarding any possible discussion about it - ladies football congress there will be discussion about it.

Straight Talker

The following is not my words.It's from a poster on the Blood and Bandage site but it sums everything up really.

The dreaded, dastardly Anthony Nash has only been playing senior championship for 2 years, and in that time has taken only six 20m frees/penalties/other close in free just outside 20m

2012 : Tipp, Offaly, Galway- no such attempts available to Nash in any of these games. One awarded v Wexford (converted) . No whinging from Wexford
2013 : Limerick, Kilkenny, Dublin - no such attempts available to Nash in any of these games, or in Munster match v Clare. But in All Ireland final and replay 5 attempts available due to cynical fouling by Clare ( 2 converted - 40% success rate though one hit crossbar and one illegally charged down): Cue media campaign and unrelenting pants pissing from Davy, even though they won.

It's a unique motion. A motion directed at curtailing just one man's unprecedented skill and initiated by just one man's unprecedented whinging.

thinkstoomuch1

If they change minor got to change u21,huge gap to be filled then.

I do understand some of the reasons do leaving cert etc

munchkin_utd

regarding motion 40, its only about time, and thats nothing to do with Nash being super good at what he does.
To me, if youre taking a free from a spot, then thats where you take your shot from. If you need a run up then thats fine.
Its the same in other sports. In Gaelic you simply take the kick from where youre supposed to.
In aussie rules you can have a run up but must take the actual kick at or before the spot where the free is.

If anything whats missing is to allow a run up in Gaelic Football too, but maybe that'll come next year when everyone sees how successful the hurling rule is (should it be passed)!

rebel girl 15

Football is exactly the same, lads gaining yards left right and centre!! Davy Fitz had no problem with it when he was doing it himself - you are penalising Nash for perfecting a lift - if they get on top of the lifts, then they have to punish the lads who leave the sliotar on the hurley for a few seconds before striking it

Looks like O Farrell will win the election from what I've heard, Walsh second

thinkstoomuch1

Its no suprise Kilkenny and Clare ,are the only two moaning bout it,both fell victim to Nash in the past.

Kilkenny i have great time for but there becoming a laugh of the field than legends on it,with keher,cody and now skehan wanting rules change to suit themselves.

There on about safety and they want no Cards ,back to the old days and there is no Dirt in the game,what about tyrells flying hurley at corbett 2010.Yeah that had nothing to do with Dirt,that was he had not enough grip on the hurley,and a gust of wind blew the hurley exactly at corbett.


There is little danger in any player getting badly hurt from nash,now more so with the players wearing helmets.If Davy had such a fear of players safety why put close to 15 men behind the ball,greater chance of one being hit.


Kilkenny or clare dont have keepers with the art of nash so they want to change it.Is it any conincende Tipp and limerick are supporting nash ,as Egan there keeper can score from frees and so too quaid like nash ,if dowling wasnt taking them.
Nash got a penalty in a challenge two weeks ago v tipp,in morris park.Any one get injured no ,not from a penalty,Colm Spillane got a broken nose of Jason forde in a challenge.Far more likely a lad gets injured in open play ,and well those cheerleaders know it .Safety me bo**ox ,they just want to eliminate Nashs potent weapon.Simple as that.

If they want to stop that nash motion,might as well stop a full forward scoring or enterining a zone close to the keeper with the ball also.The same danger is present.


Ul v lit,glynn barged down on goal and hit Murphy the limerick keeper in a challenge ,and was out cold for a bit .That rirk is part and parcel of the game,like the nash motion ,its small and its a game of hurling at the end of the day ,risk is always there.


Kilkenny want teams to man up ,and take the rough stuff ,man up with the penalites ffs and stop moanining just to get rules changed to suit them.


Id say cork will get enough support to defeat it.

An interesting motion is to stop lads under16 year olds being on the minor panel,if the minor is dropped to 17,then that cant happen ,as then its just a 17 year old tournament and what does the Eugence Carey tournament in cork do in september then,thats an u17 all ireland tournament.

They cant have it both ways ,got to leave minor as it is.

sasol

Straight Talker wrote: »

The following is not my words.It's from a poster on the Blood and Bandage site but it sums everything up really.

The dreaded, dastardly Anthony Nash has only been playing senior championship for 2 years, and in that time has taken only six 20m frees/penalties/other close in free just outside 20m

2012 : Tipp, Offaly, Galway- no such attempts available to Nash in any of these games. One awarded v Wexford (converted) . No whinging from Wexford
2013 : Limerick, Kilkenny, Dublin - no such attempts available to Nash in any of these games, or in Munster match v Clare. But in All Ireland final and replay 5 attempts available due to cynical fouling by Clare ( 2 converted - 40% success rate though one hit crossbar and one illegally charged down): Cue media campaign and unrelenting pants pissing from Davy, even though they won.

It's a unique motion. A motion directed at curtailing just one man's unprecedented skill and initiated by just one man's unprecedented whinging.

Why let the facts get in the way of a good old fashioned moan?

Cynical fouling by Clare leading to Nashes frees? Whoever claimed this would do well to look at the video again. One of Nashes frees was for an alleged pick up off the ground - video clearly shows that Pa Kelly roll lifted the ball a clear 18 inches off the ground.

Two of Nashes frees were as a result of swan diving by Cronin. Another Cronin actually slipped and Cian Dillon was actually booked for this.

Do corkonians realize that this rule will apply to all goalies, not just Nash?

The sense of paranoia on lee side over this is frightening.

The simple fact is that Nash is gaining an unfair advantage by THROWING the ball forward before striking. It is danergous and illegal. It is called a 20m free for a reason .

The claims of moaning by Cork are a bit rich giving the non stop whinging by Bob Ryan, Michael Moynihan , and many others over the course of the past few months. They didn't get their way having the league restructured to suit themselves, hopefully sense will prevail here also

Hanalei

sasol wrote: »

Why let the facts get in the way of a good old fashioned moan?

The claims of moaning by Cork are a bit rich giving the non stop whinging by Bob Ryan, Michael Moynihan , and many others over the course of the past few months. They didn't get their way having the league restructured to suit themselves, hopefully sense will prevail here also

Please heed your own advice, the general feeling from Cork people was almost unanimous that the league format should not be changed. I didn't speak to one Cork person who supported that idea and I don't recall Cork fans calling for it on this or any other discussion sites.

The simple fact is that Nash is gaining an unfair advantage by THROWING the ball forward before striking. It is danergous and illegal. It is called a 20m free for a reason .

It's a "fact" that he's "throwing" the ball? Not quite, can't throw a ball unless it's in your hand!

Is it dangerous? Perhaps, but is it illegal? Not yet, people have been taking an extra few yards with the lift from penalties for as long as I can remember and it has always been allowed, Nash has taken the "skill" of gaining an extra few yards to a new level, to the extent that the issue really does need to be addressed now.

It's strange that a goalkeeper is not allowed strike a puck out from outside the parallelogram yet there seems to be no clearly defined limit to where a penalty must be struck from. (Or; there actually is a clearly defined limit but it is just not being enforced, which would certainly need to be addressed)

It certainly is something that needs to be discussed, I'm still not certain where I fall on this one but I do feel that if a penalty taker is allowed move forward after the lift then the defense too should be allowed advance from their goal line. I thought the Clare keeper was dead right to charge out like he did last year.

thinkstoomuch1

Stick to the facts ,if you want to debate a point,rather than ignore or manuiplate points to suit yourself.


No cork fan,and well you know lad from my posts on the cork thread and league threat i was 100 per cent behind legaue staying as is,Bob the man and Frank didnt reperesent the views of Cork fans as a majority ,bar there own yes men like John cocorcan etc.


When has any player been injured from a nash penaltly.

Cork fans want fairness and its a witchhunt against Nash when Davy done the same for years,and not a whisper regards safety,and they all hadnt helmets,and davy had as much power and venom in the shot as Nash.


And your gone in off a tanget with frees cork shouldnt have got.Nothing to do with it.This is regards a free taker taking the fredm.


You are hardly in a position to cry wolf,when clare off the ball ,blatantly time and again roughed,and belted,harnedy of the ball the drawn match,none of the media ,not that they didnt see it ,choose to highligt that,bar Eddie brennan.


Jbm didnt say a word .Neither did harndy.He protected himself in the replay,he manned up when the ref didnt.


Clare are a great team like kk,doesmt do them good by whinging about an art that has been around for ages.Man up,in fairness and instead of whinging,davy should be coaching kelly and hes keeper the art of nash.What a skill he has,Celbrate it rather than whinge and be a good sport.

sasol

Thinkstoomuch - my post above, was in response to a post labeling Clare as cynical and whinging. I did not bring up cynicism in relation to frees - I responded to it. If someone from Cork is going to label the frees as 'cynical' , please expect a response because 'soft' would be a far more appropriate description.

Harnedy roughed up? At least he was not struck across the head off the ball.

You are correct , nobody has (yet) been injured by Nashes frees. Do we need to wait until someone is injured to do something about it??

There is not a free taker in the history of the game who has stroke a 20m free on the 20m line. Momentum will carry them inside it. Davy was one player who tried to gain an advantage when striking, but what he did was far different than what Nash is doing. no player has brought it to the level that Nash has, by scooping/throwing it forward 8 or 9 meters.

It is something that needs to be sorted out. It is unfair and unsafe, and it will encourage the likes of Cronin to further exaggerate any physical contact that comes his way.

premierstone

Would agree with those arguing that the rules should be left as is, Nash has perfected a particualr skill and in anycase all advantages should always be rewarded to the team that was fouled.

I do however love the irony of thinkstoomuch posts where he states that Kilkenny are a laughing stock because of Cody, Skehan and Keher but that Cork are A ok cos the opinions of Frank Murphy, Bob Ryan and Michael Moynihan aren't a true reflection of teh real Cork people

premierstone

sasol wrote: »

It is something that needs to be sorted out. It is unfair and unsafe, and it will encourage the likes of Cronin to further exaggerate any physical contact that comes his way.

Or perhaps it will discourage defenders from fouling??

The Clare keeper along with every other keeper/freetaker in the country is entitled to do the same thing as Nash - Itf they are capable of course!

thinkstoomuch1

.

Saol fair point about the frees and cronin i would agree goes down handy for such a big man.


In relation to o neill,we have been over that before ,honan was giving as good as he got ,and thats why o neill didnt go.If your going to be a hard man you must take it.
And credit to bulger and donnellan when harndy showed them timber they just got on with it and it wasnt a dirty game .


Yeah nash does take an extra few yards but every team pushes the rules,to have a motion just one player is a bit much.
Never has there been an injury,hurling is a game of risk in a very minute,way,if people want NO RISK,dont play ,as there is danger in overheading pulling,striking everywhere on the field.


The game is at its best ever,leave it alone.Clare are meeting tonight to see how they vote on it with waterford??

Will clare go against it defintely you think?

Browney7

premierstone wrote: »

Or perhaps it will discourage defenders from fouling??

The Clare keeper along with every other keeper/freetaker in the country is entitled to do the same thing as Nash - Itf they are capable of course!

The clare Kk game at the weekend was a perfect example here. The chance leading to The penalty that shefflin took would have been a goal 90% of the time. Sheeflin missed but scored the 65. 2 points saved. Another instance where a Kk player was rugby wrapped up to the left on the 21 by a player with no Hurley in the first half. Wasnt a certain goal by any means but he was in behind the defence and the percentage call ws to make the foul.

thinkstoomuch1

Justice done
Nash motiom wont even be debated
Withdrawn tonight.Justice for nash

Kristopherus

O Fearghail is the new President.

sasol

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Justice done
Nash motiom wont even be debated
Withdrawn tonight.Justice for nash

Well done Frank.

Withdrawn motion = no discussion = no democratic vote = "Justice Done" ? :rolleyes:

Lemlin

Kristopherus wrote: »

O Fearghail is the new President.

A Cavan man in the top job

sasol

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

.

Saol fair point about the frees and cronin i would agree goes down handy for such a big man.


In relation to o neill,we have been over that before ,honan was giving as good as he got ,and thats why o neill didnt go.If your going to be a hard man you must take it.
And credit to bulger and donnellan when harndy showed them timber they just got on with it and it wasnt a dirty game .


Yeah nash does take an extra few yards but every team pushes the rules,to have a motion just one player is a bit much.
Never has there been an injury,hurling is a game of risk in a very minute,way,if people want NO RISK,dont play ,as there is danger in overheading pulling,striking everywhere on the field.


The game is at its best ever,leave it alone.Clare are meeting tonight to see how they vote on it with waterford??

Will clare go against it defintely you think?

thinkstoomuch - it is very obvious that you are a truely die heard GAA supporter, and I admire you for that. But your comment re Honan is frankly, awful. To try and justify a strike across the head is disgusting.

anyway, i did not hear how the Clare vote went. , It does not matter now, but I would assume they would have voted to have the 21m rule enforced.

you are mistaken in your view that the rule is about one player. The rule is about any player who will take a 21 yard free. as you have admitted, Nash pushed the rules and thus the reason why the rules needed to be discussed. but thats not going to happen now.

Brian017

Does Motion 3 mean taking time-keeping away from the refs ala Ladies Football? If so, I'll be all for it. Injury time in Hurling is usually a joke

thinkstoomuch1

Lad the vote didnt go through it was farcial,i dont think frank had much to do with that.Cusack is on the games rule top table,so maybee he had a part to play.

If you admire me as a geuine fan,thank you ,but have the deceny not to put words in my mouth.Where did i say i advocated dangerous play?
I geuinely think your a good poster by the way.

O neill strike wasnt with intent or maliclous and honan made a meal of it,he was belting o neill cleary of the ball and no protection was given so my opinion dont give it and expect to get away with it,if the ref doesnt act.What was o neill meant to ask him please stop?It was no way as bad as others.That has beem well and truley debated.
We agree to disaree i think with that.


Harnedy got just as bad abuse of the ball.Anyay the point being debated is the frees etc,and that is now the end of it.Thank god.


Yeah there will be an outcry from the usaual suspects ex players etc,that makes it truly amusing for me and i will get a kick out of there crys that this as awful.


Its not,its a wonderful skill and it should be celebrated not criticised and a wtich hunt against one man.

Done and dusted,next agenda to focus on for congress tommorrow.
i knew and said earlier it would be defeated .I did think it would go to a vote though .

yeah nash pushed the rules a bit,clare have done last year and kk too,no motions against them.

You dont hear anyone castigating davy for hes sweeper system with lit and clare.

Traditonalist could argue its bad for the game and like in football blanket defences have no place in it.


Cork and correctly so havent complained.
Davy had a skill for that system like with nash it is up to other counties to beat that system on the field of play.
Fair play on cavan man for getting the top job and one of our posters was bang on the money earlier he would get it.

rebel girl 15

The rule is basically covered in the rule book anyway about advancement of the ball from where it was placed and it would be a double rule.

O Fearghail as the new president - didn't think the margin would be that high. Surprised that Howlin beat Walsh to second though - seemed to be only Munster support for Walsh, and Howlin did have a stint as overseas chair at one time. Will be interesting to see how many of the promises will come true!

I got the top man right, second wrong though!

sasol

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

The rule is basically covered in the rule book anyway about advancement of the ball from where it was placed and it would be a double rule.
!

That is simply not true. The motion was to amend an existing rule, not create a new rule. Thus it could not have ended up in a double rule.

The current rule makes no reference to penalty, it just references frees and sidelines. The current rule references where the free or sideline is taken from - when is a free taken ? Is it when it is lifted or struck ???? The new motion was to clarify this and replace 'taken' with 'struck'

The motion was as follows
Amend Rule 4.25 T.O. 2014, Part 2, Playing Rules of Hurling to Read:
“To advance the ball deliberately from the Place at which a free puck, Penalty Puck or sideline
puck is to be Struck from”.
Rules affected: Rule 2.2 and 2.3 Playing Rules of Hurling.

thinkstoomuch1

All 2 to 23 motions passed bar motion 1 that was defeated.

thinkstoomuch1

All up to 37 bar 1 and 32 passed.

52 and 53 be very interesting with minor


Change 52 if you want leave 53.

Cornerstoner

Motion 46 has been passed - U16s ineligible for intercounty minor. Serious repercussions, smaller countys will suffer. From my own county, every year at minor there is minimum of one player that starts who is U16.
Edit: Rule comes into operation now, meaning minor panels will have to be completely reviewed with months of training already taken place!

thinkstoomuch1

Good news minor rule u16 etc isnt coming in to effect til next year.
Up at congress again end of march .

Cornerstoner

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Good news minor rule u16 etc isnt coming in to effect til next year.
Up at congress again end of march .

Is it being voted on again or what do you know?

thinkstoomuch1

I think its a done deal just over for debate,wont be in defo til 2015 ,thank god

Cornerstoner

If your good enough your old enough. if that rule had came in a few years ago we would have been deprived of seeing 15 year old Stephen Bennett scoring 3-2 versus Limerick in the munster semi final in 2011.

randd1

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Justice done
Nash motiom wont even be debated
Withdrawn tonight.Justice for nash

A bit dramatic, its not like he was a member of the Guilford Four or Nelson Mandela.

That said, it was the right move by the GAA, delighted its not coming in to honest with you, it would have been open season for cynical defending throughout the country.

But I would like to have seen a ruling brought in whereby a goalie hurl could only be used for frees within his own 21 yard line, and let them take the frees/penalties/21's with a regular sized hurl like every other free taker.

Hidalgo

Re the 'Nash Rule'. It's something that has been done for ages, just not to the same extent as Nash. other freetakers have managed to lift the ball in a few yards, he's taken it to another level with brilliant skill.
Very difficult to still strike the ball at full pelt when doing it, fair play to him its obviously something he's practiced to near perfection.

Just because one player is better at something than others isn't justification for changing a rule. Some freetakers have a tendancy to balance the ball on the hurley when taking 65's/frees, this is something that is rarely highlighted.

Ditto in football when a free is taken off the hand, a few metres are often taken sneaked.

However, is there not an anomaly in the rule book?
Feel free to correct me, but does the rule state that defending players for a pen/21 must be 20 metres away from were the ball is struck, if so the Clare backs would have to have been in the Hill to maintain the 20 metre rule? (or is the rule 20 metres from where the ball is lifted/positioned by the free taker??)