Special Feature in Irish Times regarding Waterford

Exile on Grafton St.

Hi everyone. The Irish Times has got around to looking at Waterford (City and Tramore). It's the last in a series of articles on Irish cities and towns. Would be interested to know local opinion on it.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/waterford-running-low-on-assets-for-the-future-1.1693981

Dicky Pride

Makes for pretty grim reading. I predict a 10 page thread by next week..

Ballyv24

I enjoyed the article. Lots of common sense stuff in there and its not all doom and gloom.

Ballyv24

I only noticed the links to 4 other articles after reading the main one.

Tramore

Cut in number of councillors

‘Tapping into city’s origins is the way forward

Wherever I live, I have a bit of Waterford to take with me

wellboytoo

Our friends in Kilkenny County council won't be to pleased with it either.

Dicky Pride

Lot of people trying to deflect away from the article this morning by reading a diary entry from Jennifer O Connell.

fricatus

I found most of the piece to be fairly realistic. We face a lot of threats over the next few years, and the "high-level interventions" that he refers to don't seem anywhere near happening. If anything (though it's not mentioned) the government is making some high-level interventions that are not in the city's interest (e.g. hospital group, VEC, abolition of city council).

I did take issue with his dig at the whole Martin Cullen thing. In the video he describes the road infrastructure as "excessive", and uses the phrase "lesser-used M9" (I don't know if that's meant to be funny).

However I drive the M9 twice a day (unlike Frank McDonald) and I certainly don't find myself alone on it like he implies. Would he prefer us to still be driving through Mullinavat and Thomastown? There is steady traffic on the M9 (particularly at rush hour), and it's no less used than parts of the M8. I sometimes think that the begrudgery around this will persist for years. Thankfully the begrudgers can't remove what's been built!

The only part of Waterford's road infrastructure that's underused is the Suir Bridge, and that's because there's a toll on it. I'm very surprised that he didn't note the difference in traffic levels on the two bridges and make the connection. Rather, the only toll he mentions is the one that is absent from the M9, presumably to underline a point about the special treatment we supposedly got under Martin Cullen.

What's missing though is the elephant in the room - the lack of a university. Yes, it's touched on in the article, but if I told you that in 1985 there were two cities with the same population, one with a university and RTC, and the other one with only an RTC, that the only change in the educational landscape is that both RTCs got rebranded into ITs, and then I asked you to predict which city would be 25% bigger than the other 30 years on, and which one would be described in the press as "underperforming", I think you'd be able to guess the outcome. It's not rocket science!

Yet this is the inequality which successive governments have allowed to persist between Waterford and Galway. And then when we point out this divergence in performance, we're told that no, there must be other factors besides the obvious!

I remember reading - open mouthed - when someone or other (I think it might have been John Fitzgerald of the ESRI, but my apologies if I'm wrong) offered the explanation that the reason Galway did so well relatively was that it had "two international standard theatre companies"! Well they must be some theatre companies to cause almost a doubling of population in 30 years! Seriously though, maybe we should take a step back and see what allowed Galway to have two international standard theatre companies when all we had was closing factories? Well whaddya know, they had a university with a big Arts faculty!

The article is a good summation then of where Waterford stands now, but I'd be far more interested in a comparative study of how two similar cities ended up with such divergent fortunes over the years.

Tangled

Meanwhile, in today's Examiner...
http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/waterford-tipped-as-high-potential-area-in-eu-259041.html

Exile on Grafton St.

Speaking as an outsider, I have to agree with Frictus (and no doubt, most people in Waterford) regarding how hampered Waterford has been by not having a university. It also helps Galway regarding the location of NUI-Galway, which is a short walk from the city centre, while many of the students in UL rarely make an appearance in Limerick's city centre.

I disagree with the notion that Frank McDonald begrudges Waterford the motorway. Mr McDonald hates all motorways! He has never learned to drive and lives in Temple Bar, so he can probably get by easily without a car. He's long advocated an increase in expenditure in public transport and has long disagreed with the policy in Ireland of building motorways between Dublin and elsewhere. If he had his way none of them would have been built and he'd probably be quite happy if the money was used to upgrade national railway lines, build new Luas lines and upgrade cycle lanes and not just for Dublin.

AbbotSinical

The relatively low level of traffic on the motorway these past few years is not a concern. Infrastructure is by its very nature a long term investment. The M9 will be a huge advantage to the SE area once this flat business cycle ends (no pun intended)

Keeping our airport open is another priority right now. We will struggle to finance extending the runway but I find it amazing that we don't have regular flights to UK cities. I know its about demand, but if the number of goverment agencies nationally was reduced and restructured we might be able to identify actual individuals that are responsible for bringing tourists to this region. (Through promoting the region, not abducting people) A lot of draws to the area in terms of sport, food, history in addition to the scenery. The city vs county mentality doesn't help anymore than complaining about Waterford vs Kilkenny funding and progress.

I'm one of the few Waterfordians that doesn't believe a University is the answer to our 19% unemployment / companies closing / companies not locating here. Throughout the country, indigenous companies (and small ones at that) are critical to employment. What does WIT currently do to engage with local business? WIT could focus less on drawing down EU and National funding and generally building their own brand and work in a practical and meaningful way to help businesses that really are struggling to survive. I don't know exactly what form such assistance should take but I'm not talking about mickey mouse research efforts or other academic reports. So, hands on non monetary support without distorting competition or favouring any particular sectors or groups - I'm sure someone could figure it out!

Politicians like to cite the lack of a University as an excuse for a lack of development in Waterford. Lazy journalists accept that as an absolute fact. Our local media get really upset when anyone outside the county suggests a university isn't feasible. So I am in favour of a University if only to remove that excuse!

OK, I'll get my coat.........

200motels

Very interesting read and a lot of valid points, I believe that our 4 muppets of TD's are doing nothing for the City as 3 of them are from the County and don't give a hoot about our City, I'm not a fan of Martin Cullen but at least he got something's done. We have local elections coming up and we'll hear a load of bull from them but I won't be buying it and we need new blood to run our City and vote out those that are there as most are useless.

debit2credit

Does someone have a link to the DKM report they mention in the articles?

Max Powers

Tangled wrote: »

Meanwhile, in today's Examiner...
http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/waterford-tipped-as-high-potential-area-in-eu-259041.html

vey positive alright but I seem to recall something similar about 3-5 years ago. cant do any harm though to have us on a list like that published by the F.T.

spookwoman

Bit of whitewash the article.

BBM77

Tangled wrote: »

Meanwhile, in today's Examiner...
http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/waterford-tipped-as-high-potential-area-in-eu-259041.html

To me this is proof that the IDA and government(s) are simple not doing their job for Waterford. This is not the first time Waterford has performed well in this.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2008/0311/business/waterford-makes-it-into-top-20-european-cities-57407.html

It is as clear as day that Waterford has what is needed to attract FDI but the state bodies who are tasked at realising investment are simply not working for Waterford. This raises a host of questions. The number of IDA sponsored site visits by potential investors to County Waterford was 14 visits in 2013. How are they selling Waterford at these visits? With such strong rankings by an internationally respected organisation like the Financial Times why is the IDA not getting these strengths across?

spookwoman

BBM77 wrote: »

To me this is proof that the IDA and government(s) are simple not doing their job for Waterford. This is not the first time Waterford has performed well in this.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2008/0311/business/waterford-makes-it-into-top-20-european-cities-57407.html

It is as clear as day that Waterford has what is needed to attract FDI but the state bodies who are tasked at realising investment are simply not working for Waterford. This raises a host of questions. The number of IDA sponsored site visits by potential investors to County Waterford was 14 visits in 2013. How are they selling Waterford at these visits? With such strong rankings by an internationally respected organisation like the Financial Times why is the IDA not getting these strengths across?

Ask the dog on the street and they will whisper the reason. It's not openly spoken about but there are reasons

Dicky Pride

The IDA just need to attract jobs, they don't care where. This country has been strangled by red tape in recent years.

looksee

spookwoman wrote: »

Ask the dog on the street and they will whisper the reason. It's not openly spoken about but there are reasons

Ooooh a theory! I don't know any dogs, and I don't speak dog anyway, perhaps you could whisper it? Promise I won't tell anyone!

hardybuck

AbbotSinical wrote: »

I'm one of the few Waterfordians that doesn't believe a University is the answer to our 19% unemployment / companies closing / companies not locating here. Throughout the country, indigenous companies (and small ones at that) are critical to employment. What does WIT currently do to engage with local business? WIT could focus less on drawing down EU and National funding and generally building their own brand and work in a practical and meaningful way to help businesses that really are struggling to survive. I don't know exactly what form such assistance should take but I'm not talking about mickey mouse research efforts or other academic reports. So, hands on non monetary support without distorting competition or favouring any particular sectors or groups - I'm sure someone could figure it out!

Politicians like to cite the lack of a University as an excuse for a lack of development in Waterford. Lazy journalists accept that as an absolute fact. Our local media get really upset when anyone outside the county suggests a university isn't feasible. So I am in favour of a University if only to remove that excuse!

I would mostly agree with you on the University front. I'd be more interested in WIT improving it's reputation through work it has actually done rather than simply changing the name over the door. It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation, but I'll give you two examples:

I was speaking to a senior executive from a Sligo based pharma company a few months back. He mentioned that Sligo IT was very proactive in developing courses which were tailored to the company's needs - the company would actually work with the college to develop content. This was working so well that employees from other sites around the world were being sent to Sligo for training. This is very progressive stuff, I'm not sure if WIT are involved in that sort of work.

On the other hand, he mentioned that people in other countries were very surprised when they came over and saw Sligo IT. They were met with a bright new third level institution, but they had been expecting a more basic establishment where people learned technical skills and trades. This is what an IT or a technological university means abroad.

So, you can see the two sides of the coin there. WIT can probably be doing more to help themselves, but they could probably do with some help at the same time.

BBM77

spookwoman wrote: »

Ask the dog on the street and they will whisper the reason. It's not openly spoken about but there are reasons

I live and work in Waterford and I don't know the reason. Please do fill me in...

spookwoman

The strikes in the past have been a big blow and its still remembered sometimes with pride. Not to mention the college, the cronyism and the expense problems regarding WIT etc. On the visual side coming over that bridge is not pretty and same along the quay. Remember when someone comes to check the place out for possible business they will also see how the place looks because they will send their own to move in . Also people from outside of waterford will want to come to work and live here and if the place looks like a dump, public transport not the best thats another black mark. Think waterford people need to get their heads out of the sand and look at the negative posts cause if they see waterford this way then others will too. Something needs to be done by waterford to help bring people in.

johnnykilo

hardybuck wrote: »

I would mostly agree with you on the University front. I'd be more interested in WIT improving it's reputation through work it has actually done rather than simply changing the name over the door. It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation, but I'll give you two examples:

I was speaking to a senior executive from a Sligo based pharma company a few months back. He mentioned that Sligo IT was very proactive in developing courses which were tailored to the company's needs - the company would actually work with the college to develop content. This was working so well that employees from other sites around the world were being sent to Sligo for training. This is very progressive stuff, I'm not sure if WIT are involved in that sort of work.

On the other hand, he mentioned that people in other countries were very surprised when they came over and saw Sligo IT. They were met with a bright new third level institution, but they had been expecting a more basic establishment where people learned technical skills and trades. This is what an IT or a technological university means abroad.

So, you can see the two sides of the coin there. WIT can probably be doing more to help themselves, but they could probably do with some help at the same time.

In defence of WIT (I have no affiliation with them, just someone who ended up studying there on 2 separate occasions over the years).

I know for a fact that a certain well known US Healthcare company based in Waterford (I'm sure you can guess which one) approached WIT either shortly before they setup here or shortly afterwards and asked WIT to set us a course specifically to train people in the skills this company needed, which they did and has been/is very successful.

In addition the TSSG has been hugely successful in winning funding from Europe which has resulted in a number of spin out companies being created, a big increase in the number of PhD students, and several hundred high-level jobs being created.

While WIT is by no means perfect and is going to have to change radically if it's to move to the next level, I'm not sure it gets the credit it deserves. Ask anyone in any third-level institution in the country (or just go onto the Edu forums and see for yourself) and most of them will have stories about poor facilities, bad lecturers etc...

Motivator

200motels wrote: »

Very interesting read and a lot of valid points, I believe that our 4 muppets of TD's are doing nothing for the City as 3 of them are from the County and don't give a hoot about our City, I'm not a fan of Martin Cullen but at least he got something's done. We have local elections coming up and we'll hear a load of bull from them but I won't be buying it and we need new blood to run our City and vote out those that are there as most are useless.

Cullen did a few things alright, he headed off into the sunset with a huge pension when the going got tough. He's laughing at us from his condo in Florida.

looksee

spookwoman wrote: »

The strikes in the past have been a big blow and its still remembered sometimes with pride. Not to mention the college, the cronyism and the expense problems regarding WIT etc. On the visual side coming over that bridge is not pretty and same along the quay. Remember when someone comes to check the place out for possible business they will also see how the place looks because they will send their own to move in . Also people from outside of waterford will want to come to work and live here and if the place looks like a dump, public transport not the best thats another black mark. Think waterford people need to get their heads out of the sand and look at the negative posts cause if they see waterford this way then others will too. Something needs to be done by waterford to help bring people in.

There is nothing 'not openly spoken about' about any of that?

Motivator

spookwoman wrote: »

The strikes in the past have been a big blow and its still remembered sometimes with pride. Not to mention the college, the cronyism and the expense problems regarding WIT etc. On the visual side coming over that bridge is not pretty and same along the quay. Remember when someone comes to check the place out for possible business they will also see how the place looks because they will send their own to move in . Also people from outside of waterford will want to come to work and live here and if the place looks like a dump, public transport not the best thats another black mark. Think waterford people need to get their heads out of the sand and look at the negative posts cause if they see waterford this way then others will too. Something needs to be done by waterford to help bring people in.

Nail on the head. It's laughable the amount of people around the place who think Waterford is some sort of utopia. The reality is the place is an absolute kip. The council should be held accountable for the city rotting from the inside out. It's an utterly depressing city & has been for a good few years now. I'm all for positive thinking but Jesus it's hard to put a positive spin on the city these days.

comeraghs

Motivator wrote: »

Nail on the head. It's laughable the amount of people around the place who think Waterford is some sort of utopia. The reality is the place is an absolute kip. The council should be held accountable for the city rotting from the inside out. It's an utterly depressing city & has been for a good few years now. I'm all for positive thinking but Jesus it's hard to put a positive spin on the city these days.

Waterford most certainly is not a kip, the improvement in the city in recent years has been immense and is a credit to the City council.

What city exactly is a utopia & has a beautiful approach, not Cork, Limerick or Dublin anyways!


What people see when they look out is often a reflection of how they see themselves. Waterford is struggling in many ways but without her citizens standing up for her the city will never thrive.

Motivator

comeraghs wrote: »

Waterford most certainly is not a kip, the improvement in the city in recent years has been immense and is a credit to the City council.

What city exactly is a utopia & has a beautiful approach, not Cork, Limerick or Dublin anyways!


What people see when they look out is often a reflection of how they see themselves. Waterford is struggling in many ways but without her citizens standing up for her the city will never thrive.

The cities you mentioned above are a damn sight better than what we have to put up with here. Kilkenny is a nicer place, Wexford is a nicer place. Waterford is a kip & the council have done nothing to help. They've made the city a no go area. I had visitors from the US recently & I was embarrassed when they asked was it the same Waterford they had heard so much about. They had been to Sligo, Wicklow, kilkenny & Waterford & said Waterford was the most disappointing place they had been to. There is nothing here plain & simple.

You want the citizens to sand up? Stand up to who? The council don't give a toss about the people of Waterford, either do the government. To claim otherwise is just pure ignorance on your part.

comeraghs

http://www.thejournal.ie/waterford-city-history-guide-1257693-Jan2014/


Just a little of what Waterford has to offer ....... for those who will open their eyes.

comeraghs

http://waterfordvikingtriangle.com/


& a bit more that might "motivate" you to be a bit more positive in your outlook!

comeraghs

& don't forget our great sporting stars ....


http://thescore.thejournal.ie/waterford-sports-fan-838558-Mar2013/

Ballyv24

I really like the park here too: http://www.waterfordnaturepark.ie/index.htm