New Garda Pay

Shady Tady

Raider190 wrote: »

Of course some will fail but many have succeed in the past and will do so in the future. To my knowledge at least 16 have made it to stage 3. Sure there are a few more out there.

That's a real kick in the teeth for the reserve, many reserves gave up their free time as they say it as an easy route into the gardai. I bet most won't be so enthuastic after not getting through today. It's likely that some of those who have made it through will not get any further either. The reserve was a gimmick brought in by an ex FCA member Michael McDowell.

Raider190

Shady Tady wrote: »

That's a real kick in the teeth for the reserve, many reserves gave up their free time as they say it as an easy route into the gardai. I bet most won't be so enthuastic after not getting through today. It's likely that some of those who have made it through will not get any further either. The reserve was a gimmick brought in by an ex FCA member Michael McDowell.

Don't agree . Reserve police officers are used in many police forces throughout the world . The met in the uk have the special constables which have been in place for over 100 years. We appear to be so afraid of change I wonder why ??????

Shady Tady

Raider190 wrote: »

Don't agree . Reserve police officers are used in many police forces throughout the world . The met in the uk have the special constables which have been in place for over 100 years. We appear to be so afraid of change I wonder why ??????

Because sometimes change can be a bad option, change isn't always good! The reserve in the UK is not rated by full time members in the UK either!

Raider190

Shady Tady wrote: »

Because sometimes change can be a bad option, change isn't always good! The reserve in the UK is not rated by full time members in the UK either!

And who says that. The specials are so highly regarded they that their own command structure sets , inspectors , supt etc. they have an association of special officers. They have regular conferences around the uk with hundreds attending. Doesn't appear to me that they are not rated. Do some research on the subject you will be amazed how rated they actually are. Would they have been existence for over a century if they were not of substantial value. .... I don't think so

Change is always good when it is initiated following a review and identification of the issues and establishment of what exactly needs to be changed. How do you thing improvements are made

Shady Tady

Raider190 wrote: »

And who says that. The specials are so highly regarded they that their own command structure sets , inspectors , supt etc. they have an association of special officers. They have regular conferences around the uk with hundreds attending. Doesn't appear to me that they are not rated. Do some research on the subject you will be amazed how rated they actually are. Would they have been existence for over a century if they were not of substantial value. .... I don't think so

Change is always good when it is initiated following a review and identification of the issues and establishment of what exactly needs to be changed. How do you thing improvements are made

They changed the health boards years ago to the HSE following a review and that was really worthwhile alright.
I know officers in the UK and that's where my info comes from. The fact that so few reserves have got through the aptitude process is also worrying!

Tommy_utd16

Shady Tady wrote: »

They changed the health boards years ago to the HSE following a review and that was really worthwhile alright.
I know officers in the UK and that's where my info comes from. The fact that so few reserves have got through the aptitude process is also worrying!

How many reserves have gotten through?

Raider190

Shady Tady wrote: »

They changed the health boards years ago to the HSE following a review and that was really worthwhile alright.
I know officers in the UK and that's where my info comes from. The fact that so few reserves have got through the aptitude process is also worrying!

The opinion of a few police officers is not to considered the overall preception of the specials. Again 100 years plus .......it must be doing something right.

Nobody knows yet the percentage of reserves who have made it through. Too early to be speculating on that subject. Like all public competitions the best will make it ,reserve or not reserve . Some individuals are great at testing , some are good at interviewing those who are excellent at both will excel and make it to the college. Be they currently serving reserves or civilians they will have worked hard to get their place and that is to be commended

Shady Tady

Raider190 wrote: »

The opinion of a few police officers is not to considered the overall preception of the specials. Again 100 years plus .......it must be doing something right.

Nobody knows yet the percentage of reserves who have made it through. Too early to be speculating on that subject. Like all public competitions the best will make it ,reserve or not reserve . Some individuals are great at testing , some are good at interviewing those who are excellent at both will excel and make it to the college. Be they currently serving reserves or civilians they will have worked hard to get their place and that is to be commended

You have changed your tune! Its not that long ago you were raming it down everyone throat that reserves should be given preference and slating people who said what you have just said! Ah! Well!

Raider190

Shady Tady wrote: »

You have changed your tune! Its not that long ago you were arming it down everyone throat that reserves should be given preference and slating people who said what you have just said! Ah! Well!

Yes I have been vocal on the matter and I am sure it's not your intention to start an argument if so I have ignored it. I am still of the opinion that they should be given preference but then I don't make the rules and so like everyone else I work within the system and take full advantage of any opportunity I can get over my competition and that means you and anyone else. I know that this sounds mercenary but given the choice anyone of us will do the same to get where we want to be. It is the nature of things and should you be fortunate to join AGS it will be the same. Ambition has no friends

I have always felt that the advantage would be held by some reserves and I can only talk for myself and a number of other reserves who where in my phase. There was a distinct advantage to be currently serving members and this has been proved by all of us advancing in the competition and three of the group now been in the top percentile. The added advantage will come at interview stage if we get past the next stage. Some would say that we will be expected to have a higher standard than a civilian because we are reserves, this may be true or not we shall wait and see. All in all the feed back I am getting from the reserves I know and work with is positive ,their experience allowed them to answers questions in a manner which they would have not have a couple of years ago. Look many of us may fail at the final fences or even before that but at least in effort there is respect and to follow your dream is to be praised and not to have scorn poured upon it.

ShodenMcClane

Raider190 wrote: »

Yes I have been vocal on the matter and I am sure it's not your intention to start an argument if so I have ignored it. I am still of the opinion that they should be given preference but then I don't make the rules and so like everyone else I work within the system and take full advantage of any opportunity I can get over my competition and that means you and anyone else. I know that this sounds mercenary but given the choice anyone of us will do the same to get where we want to be. It is the nature of things and should you be fortunate to join AGS it will be the same. Ambition has no friends

I have always felt that the advantage would be held by some reserves and I can only talk for myself and a number of other reserves who where in my phase. There was a distinct advantage to be currently serving members and this has been proved by all of us advancing in the competition and three of the group now been in the top percentile. The added advantage will come at interview stage if we get past the next stage. Some would say that we will be expected to have a higher standard than a civilian because we are reserves, this may be true or not we shall wait and see. All in all the feed back I am getting from the reserves I know and work with is positive ,their experience allowed them to answers questions in a manner which they would have not have a couple of years ago. Look many of us may fail at the final fences or even before that but at least in effort there is respect and to follow your dream is to be praised and not to have scorn poured upon it.

Out of interest, have you been invited to stage three?

Ketron

Is this not supposed to be a thread discussing new entrants salary and benefits?

KERSPLAT!

Shady Tady wrote: »

The lack of a reply is noted!

thekopend wrote: »

So no in other words, surprising

carzony wrote: »

even if he did reply. how could we believe it's the truth..

billie1b wrote: »

By the way said person was bragging from day 1 about how good and connected he is, there is no doubt he would post if he got through or was in the 601-3100 phase. He/she failed, as usual, all bark and no bite

MOD

If an individual does not wish to disclose personal information that is their prerogative, drop it.

mycro89 wrote: »

What do those on here think of the prospect for bands 2 and bands 3 from stage 1?

The topic of this thread is Garda Pay, not Bands 1,2 or 3. Please stay on topic.

Please do not reply to this post, if you have any problems please PM me or a fellow mod. If you feel a post breaches the charter, please use the report post function

Thanks

-KERSPLAT!

maxx_power

TheHappyChappy wrote: »

Don't they increase their income with brown envelopes?

The Commissioner will show them how to buy a nice house for 1/2 price off criminals.

If all else fails they can get some commission selling on surveillance equipment.

More sympathy with nurses than gardai

no sympathy for either here

both extremely well paid by international standards

Raider190

maxx_power wrote: »

no sympathy for either here

both extremely well paid by international standards

Another unqualified opinion. Would you get real . Pay for both is atrocious

maxx_power

Raider190 wrote: »

Another unqualified opinion. Would you get real . Pay for both is atrocious

no its exceptionally good , the vast majority wouldn't come close to matching it were they to try for other sectors

wages are still at least 20% above uk rates

Raider190

maxx_power wrote: »

no its exceptionally good , the vast majority wouldn't come close to matching it were they to try for other sectors

wages are still at least 20% above uk rates

Are you a Garda or a nurse ????????

maxx_power

Raider190 wrote: »

Are you a Garda or a nurse ????????

irrelevant

Raider190

maxx_power wrote: »

irrelevant

Of course it is. If you know how hard the job is then you have an understanding of how under paid both sectors actually are.

maxx_power

Raider190 wrote: »

Of course it is. If you know how hard the job is then you have an understanding of how under paid both sectors actually are.

its an entirely subjective opinion ( how hard it is ) , personally I don't believe a guard is a hard job but my opinion is no more valid than anyone elses either

whats relevant is how their wage packets compare to other European countries and in this case , irish police and nurses are very well paid , were most police and nurses to take up employment in an alternative sector , they would be on much less , im not referring to something like medicine which obviously pays more but as that requires a much higher level of education , its not a like for like comparison

the majority of guards have average leaving certs etc

bort_license

It's a a job which is being paid by the public or the state. Of course wages are going to be always lower than most private sector workers'. it's always been the case (with the exception of the Celtic Tiger years) that your fellow class mates who stretch into private enterprise will earn a buck or two above you. I'd imagine most people know this before pursuing a 40 year career in the AGS.

It is a hard job and no walk in the park, but unless the country can afford to give pay rises to their servants, the wage will remain the same.
Many Gardai actually left only a couple of years into the force throughout the boom years as they where missing out on massive opportunity! Early retirements where also a common occurrence,

I do have sympathy for Gardai and other public servants in regard to their pay as I'm sure we all understand saving isn't easy even for a relatively decent paying job never mind what is offered for the first 20 years in the force!

carzony

Has anyone any figues as to how many gardai just up and leave? I think i read in the paper last year it was either one a week or one a day..

donegal11

carzony wrote: »

Has anyone any figues as to how many gardai just up and leave? I think i read in the paper last year it was either one a week or one a day..

52 out of 13000 is nothing. What do you think the turnover of a similar private sector job or any job for that matter?

carzony

donegal11 wrote: »

52 out of 13000 is nothing. What do you think the turnover of a similar private sector job or any job for that matter?

I'm not saying it is that. I'm sure it's a lot more than 52.

Shady Tady

carzony wrote: »

I'm not saying it is that. I'm sure it's a lot more than 52.

What about those who wait and continue on demoralised and undervalued! There are benifits to governments to paying people a fair wage!

Santa Cruz

maxx_power wrote: »

its an entirely subjective opinion ( how hard it is ) , personally I don't believe a guard is a hard job but my opinion is no more valid than anyone elses either

whats relevant is how their wage packets compare to other European countries and in this case , irish police and nurses are very well paid , were most police and nurses to take up employment in an alternative sector , they would be on much less , im not referring to something like medicine which obviously pays more but as that requires a much higher level of education , its not a like for like comparison

the majority of guards have average leaving certs etc

As you appear to be an expert on the pay structures of European police forces I won't agree or disagree until I see the figures. Even though I do think you are talking through your hole.

However your comment as regards the "average leaving certs" shows you up to be ignorant of the facts. Since the mid 1990s the average age for new Gardaí is 23. Most of these have had some third level qualification and many continued the education when joining up to obtain Diplomas, Degrees and higher qualifications.

bort_license

Santa Cruz wrote: »

As you appear to be an expert on the pay structures of European police forces I won't agree or disagree until I see the figures. Even though I do think you are talking through your hole.

However your comment as regards the "average leaving certs" shows you up to be ignorant of the facts. Since the mid 1990s the average age for new Gardaí is 23. Most of these have had some third level qualification and many continued the education when joining up to obtain Diplomas, Degrees and higher qualifications.

You make a fair point Cruz with regard to the average age of Gardai entering the force. It appears the days of young people walking in straight after school are over. The youngest person I know that's entered the Guards was 22 going on 23. You'll notice that this stretches right up to mid 30s! I'd assume myself that almost all of new gardai have some sort of third level qualification.

carzony

I wonder what the average age will be this time round?

I'd be suprised if it was anything younger than 23.

Santa Cruz

bort_license wrote: »

You make a fair point Cruz with regard to the average age of Gardai entering the force. It appears the days of young people walking in straight after school are over. The youngest person I know that's entered the Guards was 22 going on 23. You'll notice that this stretches right up to mid 30s! I'd assume myself that almost all of new gardai have some sort of third level qualification.

That is correct. You have to base this on the numbers that have entered third level in recent years. While a certain number may not have completed their course they will still have obtained the necessary LC points to have got a place. Now I'm not saying that third level is a necessary qualification it does help. But of course people without third level will have experience elsewhere.
Barmen, drivers, tradesmen will have the work experience and life experience that will stand to them in applying and becoming Gardai

thedirtydevil

Does anyone have a breakdown of the agreed payscales and agreed current allowances for new members? Surely it was agreed with the unions and government before recruitment? Did anyone ask them about it at the Stage 3 assessment presentation I wonder?

Santa Cruz

thedirtydevil wrote: »

Does anyone have a breakdown of the agreed payscales and agreed current allowances for new members? Surely it was agreed with the unions and government before recruitment? Did anyone ask them about it at the Stage 3 assessment presentation I wonder?

No such thing as unions in Gardaí. The Government can do what they want as regards pay scales even get people to work for nothing

thedirtydevil

Sorry I meant with the GRA.

WilcoOut

Santa Cruz wrote: »

No such thing as unions in Gardaí. The Government can do what they want as regards pay scales even get people to work for nothing

More rewarding when its free !

Lads even said so

Bloodwing

I’ve tried to work out 3 rosters of pay based on the new recruits pay. Tax is based on a single person with no dependents. I didn’t include any extra tax credits and I didn’t include OT as this will vary greatly from person to person and week to week. The figures I came up with might give you an idea of what to expect but don’t take them as gospel, I could be way off. I did not include Medical Aid or GRA subs as that will be up to each individual.

Each roster contains 3 flat cheques and one “big” cheque.

ROST 1:

Flat Cheque:
€371.77 x 3 = €1115.31

Big Cheque:

• Boot + Uniform Allowance.
• 16 Hrs Sunday
• 107 Hrs Night Duty
• 6 Hrs 6pm-8pm
• 2 x Saturdays.

€605.50

Total for the 4 weeks: €1720.81


ROST 2:

Flat Cheque:
€371.77 x 3 = €1115.31

Big Cheque:

• Boot + Uniform Allowance.
• 16 Hrs Sunday
• 78 Hrs Night Duty
• 4 Hrs 6pm-8pm
• 2 x Saturdays.

€574.19

Total for the 4 weeks: €1689.50


ROST 3:

Flat Cheque:
€371.77 x 3 = €1115.31

Big Cheque:

• Boot + Uniform Allowance.
• 24 Hrs Sunday
• 58 Hrs Night Duty
• 16 Hrs 6pm-8pm
• 3 x Saturdays.

€601.44

Total for the 4 weeks: €1716.75

Like I said don’t treat this as gospel and start banking on it. I don’t know how reliable the tax calculator I used is. I based it on Gross pay of €23,000 as I couldn’t remember the exact starting pay.
If you want to work out your own situation based on your tax credits it’s easy enough to do. St. Raphaels have an app that shows you the roster and the GRA website will show you exactly how to calculate your allowances.

Santa Cruz

On Bloodwings figures it averages out about €440 per week. Wow, Don't get knocked down in the rush.
Of course you will have those who say they are not in it for the money and the job satisfaction will be worth it.
Just take the cost of rent and running a car out of that never mind those who already have a mortgage and/or married and will be stationed away from home. I see a lot of problems down the line and temptation being put in the way of those under financial pressure

Alkers

Santa Cruz wrote: »

On Bloodwings figures it averages out about €440 per week. Wow, Don't get knocked down in the rush.
Of course you will have those who say they are not in it for the money and the job satisfaction will be worth it.
Just take the cost of rent and running a car out of that never mind those who already have a mortgage and/or married and will be stationed away from home. I see a lot of problems down the line and temptation being put in the way of those under financial pressure

That's about €22,800 p.a. which in fairness is a fair bit over what you'd expect in take-home pay when only on a €23k salary. With no allowances/big cheque you would only expect €19,240 p.a.
It's unfortunate that prospective members are left to discover this from a post on boards and that the take-home wages can't even be roughly communicated to them by official means.

Hitchroun

Are the extra increments still available for degree holders?
I've seen it mentioned here that they are gone, however I can't find anything to prove this online. Its not mentioned in the Haddington Road Agreement.

Keep in mind lads there is another pay review coming out in June! That'll probably hurt...

van_beano

Hitchroun wrote: »

Are the extra increments still available for degree holders?
I've seen it mentioned here that they are gone, however I can't find anything to prove this online. Its not mentioned in the Haddington Road Agreement.

Keep in mind lads there is another pay review coming out in June! That'll probably hurt...

What's this about a pay review?

The 3 extra increments for Diploma / Degree and 1 extra increment for the Leaving Cert is still there.

WilcoOut

van_beano wrote: »

What's this about a pay review?

The 3 extra increments for Diploma / Degree and 1 extra increment for the Leaving Cert is still there.

Are you sure? I though that was one of the first things an bord snip got rid of

there was no opposition from the GRA at the time as all current members had availed of it. Go figure

Hitchroun

Here we are.

See the last page.

Although I don't think it'll just be about pay, but it will definately include pay.

van_beano

WilcoOut wrote: »

Are you sure? I though that was one of the first things an bord snip got rid of

there was no opposition from the GRA at the time as all current members had availed of it. Go figure

I don't think many of An Bord Snip Nua's recommendations came info force. Its the rent allowance that is (I think) totally gone for new entrants. The increments are still there for the 3rd level qualifications (provided they were obtained before attestation), and are payable after the 2 year probation. A further 2 increments are paid to Detectives, again after 2 years probation once appointed.

Hitchroun

WilcoOut wrote: »

Are you sure? I though that was one of the first things an bord snip got rid of

there was no opposition from the GRA at the time as all current members had availed of it. Go figure

If thats the case I can't find a single reference to it online in any official document. Its still included on the GRA website, though its out of date.

WilcoOut

Hitchroun wrote: »

If thats the case I can't find a single reference to it online in any official document. Its still included on the GRA website, though its out of date.

Well for our sake i hope im wrong!! But i dont think so.

keep digging lads

Bloodwing

van_beano wrote: »

I don't think many of An Bord Snip Nua's recommendations came info force. Its the rent allowance that is (I think) totally gone for new entrants. The increments are still there for the 3rd level qualifications (provided they were obtained before attestation), and are payable after the 2 year probation. A further 2 increments are paid to Detectives, again after 2 years probation once appointed.

Detectives receive an allowance of €28.19 per week. They do not get 2 increments.

van_beano

WilcoOut wrote: »

Well for our sake i hope im wrong!! But i dont think so.

keep digging lads

Well there's no change to the Finance Code. I can't see them scrapping the increments, the organisation needs to attract new members with 3rd level qualifications, brings additional skill sets which could come in useful in some role. It'd be shortsighted by them to scrap it.

van_beano

Bloodwing wrote: »

Detectives receive an allowance of €28.19 per week. They do not get 2 increments.

Yes they do. Plus Plain Clothes allowance of €12ish per week.

Bloodwing

van_beano wrote: »

Yes they do. Plus Plain Clothes allowance of €12ish per week.

Well it news to me. I can't see how a member appointed after 6 years service can go onto straight onto the 17 year service pay scale. I assume this is in the code?

van_beano

Bloodwing wrote: »

Well it news to me. I can't see how a member appointed after 6 years service can go onto straight onto the 17 year service pay scale. I assume this is in the code?

If a member is appointed as a Detective after 6 years service, by 8 years service they are out of probation, at this point they get 2 extra increments bringing them up to 10 years pay after 8 years service. If they got the 3rd level qualification increments then they'd be up to 13 years pay after 8 years service.

The earliest you can reach 17 years pay is by 11 years service - 3 increments for 3rd level, 1 increment for Leaving Cert and 2 increments for Detective

Hitchroun

Found a bit more about the review after some digging... written answers from the Dail.

Joanna Tuffy:

323. To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality if he will provide an update on the review of the Garda Síochána as part of the Haddington Road agreement; the matters that review will include; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Alan Shatter:

The review of the Garda Síochána is currently under way and as per the Haddington Road agreement has the following terms of reference:

"To review and make recommendations on the use by An Garda Síochána of the resources available to it, with the objective of achieving and maintaining the highest levels of efficiency and effectiveness in its operation and administration. The review shall encompass all aspects of the operation and administration of the Garda Síochána, including:

- the structure, organisation and staffing of the Garda Síochána;

- the deployment of members and civilian staff to relevant and appropriate roles;

- the remuneration and conditions of service of members of An Garda Síochána including an evaluation of annualised hours/shift pay arrangements;

- the appropriate structures and mechanism for the future resolution of matters relating to pay, industrial relations and attendant matters."

The elements dealing with the remuneration and conditions of service of members of the Garda Síochána including an evaluation of annualised hours-shift pay arrangements and the appropriate structures and mechanism for the future resolution of matters relating to pay, industrial relations and attendant matters are being dealt with by Mr. Ray McGee who has now commenced this work. Mr. McGee was formerly the Deputy Head of the Labour Court and the Director of Conciliation services in the Labour Relations Commission. It is proposed that the elements of the review dealing with the structure and organisation of the Garda Síochána and the deployment of members and civilian staff to relevant and appropriate roles will be undertaken by the Garda Inspectorate and the arrangements for this are being finalised with the Labour Relations Commission.

Possibly big changes on the way if thats the case...

Source

Bloodwing

van_beano wrote: »

If a member is appointed as a Detective after 6 years service, by 8 years service they are out of probation, at this point they get 2 extra increments bringing them up to 10 years pay after 8 years service. If they got the 3rd level qualification increments then they'd be up to 13 years pay after 8 years service.

There is no 10 year increment, or 8 year increment. If they get appointed at 6 years (€42,138) and serve 2 years probation the will have 8 years service (still €42,138) the next increment is the 11 year one (€43,857) and the next is the 17 year one (€45,793). This puts them on the maximum. Or are you saying they have 2 years added to their service?

van_beano

Bloodwing wrote: »

There is no 10 year increment, or 8 year increment. If they get appointed at 6 years (€42,138) and serve 2 years probation the will have 8 years service (still €42,138) the next increment is the 11 year one (€43,857) and the next is the 17 year one (€45,793). This puts them on the maximum. Or are you saying they have 2 years added to their service?

No not added to their service, you still have to do the 30 years with min retirement age of 55.

Extra increments doesn't necessarily mean an increase in salary with each increment. As you mentioned between year 6 and 10 it's the same salary, likewise between 11 to 15, then 2 final jumps for 16 and 17.

What the extra increments means is that you spend less time stuck in those middle years. For example, someone with 6 years service with no increments would have to wait 4 years before their next increase at 10 years service. However for someone else with 6 years service that get 2 extra increments would only have to wait 2 years for their next increase at 10 years service.