New Garda Pay

van_beano

Link to Detectives 2 extra increments:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1956/en/si/0015.html

5. The scale for Guards in Article 4 of this Order shall be subject to the following conditions :—

A Guard serving in the Detective Branch who has completed his period of probationary service, may, at the discretion of the Commissioner, be granted a special advance of two increments in the ordinary scale while he continues to serve in that Branch, provided that the grant of such special advance shall not increase his weekly pay beyond the maximum of the scale.

Bloodwing

van_beano wrote: »

Link to Detectives 2 extra increments:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1956/en/si/0015.html

5. The scale for Guards in Article 4 of this Order shall be subject to the following conditions :—

A Guard serving in the Detective Branch who has completed his period of probationary service, may, at the discretion of the Commissioner, be granted a special advance of two increments in the ordinary scale while he continues to serve in that Branch, provided that the grant of such special advance shall not increase his weekly pay beyond the maximum of the scale.

That SI ceased to have effect when the 1958 SI was brought in. Since then there have been numerous changes to the SI's and orders. For example the SI you linked to also says the Commissioner gets paid £2,398 per annum!!

The Garda Síochána Allowances (Consolidation) Order, 1965 brought in the detective allowance, I'll try and find the act that repealed the increments later and I'll check the finance code to be 100% sure.

van_beano

Bloodwing wrote: »

That SI ceased to have effect when the 1958 SI was brought in. Since then there have been numerous changes to the SI's and orders. For example the SI you linked to also says the Commissioner gets paid £2,398 per annum!!

The Garda Síochána Allowances (Consolidation) Order, 1965 brought in the detective allowance, I'll try and find the act that repealed the increments later and I'll check the finance code to be 100% sure.

I can assure you without a shadow of a doubt that Detectives get 2 increments 2 years after being appointed subject to a successful probation.

Raider190

van_beano wrote: »

I can assure you without a shadow of a doubt that Detectives get 2 increments 2 years after being appointed subject to a successful probation.

Blood wing has been pretty accurate up to now with his figures

Scouser

van_beano wrote: »

I can assure you without a shadow of a doubt that Detectives get 2 increments 2 years after being appointed subject to a successful probation.

and the 3rd level quals/LC increment?

Bloodwing

van_beano wrote: »

I can assure you without a shadow of a doubt that Detectives get 2 increments 2 years after being appointed subject to a successful probation.

I could be completely wrong, I'm not going to sit here and proclaim to be right when I can't say for certain. Its just not something I've heard of previously and if it turns out I'm wrong I'll hold my hands up! I'll check the code tonight and if I am mistaken an apology will be forthcoming!!

van_beano

Scouser wrote: »

and the 3rd level quals/LC increment?

As of todays date, still there Scouser.

Scouser

van_beano wrote: »

As of todays date, still there Scouser.

happy days

Bloodwing

van_beano wrote: »

I can assure you without a shadow of a doubt that Detectives get 2 increments 2 years after being appointed subject to a successful probation.

Well turns out I was wrong on this one. I shall now go and hang my head in shame.

van_beano

Bloodwing wrote: »

Well turns out I was wrong on this one. I shall now go and hang my head in shame.

Keep the head up Bloodwing you're only human!

Scouser

has anyone got the entire list of new pay rates?

the familiarisation material only covers the first and last scale

Ketron

Yeah I'm kinda confused now with these increments.

For example, I have a degree, would I start +3 increments (is an increment a year?) after two years from attestation?

Hitchroun

Ketron wrote: »

Yeah I'm kinda confused now with these increments.

For example, I have a degree, would I start +3 increments (is an increment a year?) after two years from attestation?

No, they kick in after probation. (2 years in) Open to correction though.

van_beano

Hitchroun wrote: »

No, they kick in after probation. (2 years in) Open to correction though.

Increments are years (nothing to do with actual years service, its years pay). Once you're attested you start on year 1 of the payscale. You do 2 years and then you're out of probation. At that point you are at year 2 on the payscale (also year 2 of service). Now since you have a degree, you will apply for and get 3 extra increments, suddenly you're on year 5 on the payscale but only year 2 on the service scale. The next year you're on year 6 on the payscale but only 3 years on the service scale and so on.

Did I make sense?

Ketron

Hitchroun wrote: »

No, they kick in after probation. (2 years in) Open to correction though.

Yeah thats what I meant.

Is an increment equivalent to a year service?

So after two years probation, I would get paid the same as someone who has no degree and has been in the gardai five years since attestation?

Thanks

van_beano

Ketron wrote: »

Yeah thats what I meant.

Is an increment equivalent to a year service?

So after two years probation, I would get paid the same as someone who has no degree and has been in the gardai five years since attestation?

Thanks

That's correct, same pay as someone with no degree but has 5 years service. However you will only have 2 years service.

Ketron

van_beano wrote: »

That's correct, same pay as someone with no degree but has 5 years service. However you will only have 2 years service.

Cheers for clarifying that...any idea what those figures are?

redout

Pretty certain the increment for having a degree is now gone. I was only speaking to a Garda about that during the week and he said as far as he knows that is now done away with.

van_beano

Ketron wrote: »

Cheers for clarifying that...any idea what those figures are?

I have no idea if there's new figures.

A previous payscale can be found on http://gra.cc/payscales.shtml This is basic pay and doesn't take into account Sat, Sun, unsocialable hours, holidays, rent, uniform, boot etc

carzony

redout wrote: »

Pretty certain the increment for having a degree is now gone. I was only speaking to a Garda about that during the week and he said as far as he knows that is now done away with.

it is done away with

Hitchroun

carzony wrote: »

it is done away with

At what stage was it done away with? Was it part of the Haddington Road Agreement?

carzony

Hitchroun wrote: »

At what stage was it done away with? Was it part of the Haddington Road Agreement?

It was taken away along with nearly every other allowance.. not sure when though...

Scouser

carzony wrote: »

It was taken away along with nearly every other allowance.. not sure when though...

long before Haddington road anyways

Ketron

Scouser wrote: »

long before Haddington road anyways

Well thats a balls!

A lot of people say its not a job for the money etc, but bearing that in mind people have to plan for the future.

I know its a job someone will never become wealthy at regardless of rank, but it would it would be nice to know where graduates stand, yes I'm suited to the job (and would love to do it), but i'm thinking in ten years time etc, I can't feed a family and pay a mortgage on job satisfaction.

Raider190

Ketron wrote: »

Well thats a balls!

A lot of people say its not a job for the money etc, but bearing that in mind people have to plan for the future.

I know its a job someone will never become wealthy at regardless of rank, but it would it would be nice to know where graduates stand, yes I'm suited to the job (and would love to do it), but i'm thinking in ten years time etc, I can't feed a family and pay a mortgage on job satisfaction.

Thank god for the old trust fund............

Ketron

Raider190 wrote: »

Thank god for the old trust fund............

Huh?!

Hitchroun

Scouser wrote: »

long before Haddington road anyways

carzony wrote: »

It was taken away along with nearly every other allowance.. not sure when though...

Not to be nosey but... what are your sources on this lads, are either of you members? Or where you told by a member?

Alot of the allowances are still in actually, though the best (rent allowance for example) are gone for new entrants.

Santa Cruz

Maybe applicants should ask themselves why is there such confusion about the pay and allowances before they join up. Who benefits from keeping people in the dark about this? If people know exactly what the renumeration is they will be spared hardship down the line. .
People who are in well paid positions now will have to give a good bit of thought into what they are going to do. If they go into the Gardaí with their eyes shut they deserve everything they get

Ketron

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Maybe applicants should ask themselves why is there such confusion about the pay and allowances before they join up. Who benefits from keeping people in the dark about this? If people know exactly what the renumeration is they will be spared hardship down the line. .
People who are in well paid positions now will have to give a good bit of thought into what they are going to do. If they go into the Gardaí with their eyes shut they deserve everything they get

+1

Exactly why I'm asking, I'll be taking a pay drop to join and I'm comfortable with that, but I do want to know what kind of salary I'd be on after a few years with a degree, its not greed, its common sense.

Hitchroun

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Maybe applicants should ask themselves why is there such confusion about the pay and allowances before they join up. Who benefits from keeping people in the dark about this? If people know exactly what the renumeration is they will be spared hardship down the line. .
People who are in well paid positions now will have to give a good bit of thought into what they are going to do. If they go into the Gardaí with their eyes shut they deserve everything they get

I simply put it down to the constant changes of rates and allowances due to the recent cuts. Another review is coming down the line in June also, which will obviously affect circumstances again.

The association that would normally provide these details are the GRA, and they aren't really bothered with new entrants pay or allowances, as those new entrants aren't yet part of the GRA.

So far we only have the minimum and maximum payscale of a new entrant Garda to go by, which was provided by the PAS. They haven't been very forthcoming about certain details of the appointment. For example, what qualifications meet the irish language requirement? What pay levels are for each increment?

I don't think these issues were intentional, I believe it mostly comes down to incompetence. I have called the PAS for further details regarding the appointment but I have been told, "I am simply reading from the online document provided, I have no further information than the public", and was instructed to contact Garda HQ, who sent me back to the PAS.

I don't think we'll know the full details till the new entrants sign the contracts.

Regardless, I'll be applying till I get in regardless of the payscale, I've never lived a lavish life style so its a non-issue for me. If I wanted money I would just stick to the Computer Science degree I'll be getting in May or so.

Scouser

Hitchroun wrote: »

Not to be nosey but... what are your sources on this lads, are either of you members? Or where you told by a member?

Alot of the allowances are still in actually, though the best (rent allowance for example) are gone for new entrants.

I have no source Hitchroun merely recalling from memory!

I hope Im wrong, but I do think theyre gone

Raider190

It will be very tough for some there is no doubt. It may dictate that only younger candidates will accept positions if they get the offer. By that I mean those who have just started on the employment ladder and have not moved too high up the pay scale. It will definitely be a deciding factor for those who are on a comfortable wage with additional perks.

Do you follow your dream or do you follow the money.......tough decisions ahead for a lot of candidates

grdaHopeful

Let's say I'm on 28k after 5 years' service.

That's €1,942.00 per month after tax.

1-bed in Blanchardstown (safe and secure part): €1000 per month
€5k Ford Fiesta 1.2 repayments over 3 years: €170 per month
Motor tax (€200 pa), insurance (€400 pa), servicing & petrol to and from work: €180 per month
ESB + internet + water: €100 per month
Clothing and footwear: €100 per month
Food and lunches: €300 per month
Mobile phone: €40 per month
Weddings/funerals/birthdays/confirmations: €50 per month
Night out in "coppers": forget it

All above = €1,940

Savings? Forget about it. You're expected to work for 40 years and own nothing at the end of it.

So if you want a subsistence lifestyle, join AGS.

The government are in the process of implementing a yellow pack police force where its members are expected to put their lives and safety on the line for the above lifestyle.

This country is a total and utter joke.

Hitchroun

grdaHopeful wrote: »

Let's say I'm on 28k after 5 years' service.

That's €1,942.00 per month after tax.

1-bed in Blanchardstown (safe and secure part): €1000 per month
€5k Ford Fiesta 1.2 repayments over 3 years: €170 per month
Motor tax (€200 pa), insurance (€400 pa), servicing & petrol to and from work: €180 per month
ESB + internet + water: €100 per month
Clothing and footwear: €100 per month
Food and lunches: €300 per month
Mobile phone: €40 per month
Weddings/funerals/birthdays/confirmations: €50 per month
Night out in "coppers": forget it

All above = €1,940

Savings? Forget about it. You're expected to work for 40 years and own nothing at the end of it.

So if you want a subsistence lifestyle, join AGS.

The government are in the process of implementing a yellow pack police force where its members are expected to put their lives and safety on the line for the above lifestyle.

This country is a total and utter joke.

Actually its closer to: €1,814.00 after tax per month, based on €28,000 per year.

Based on this calculator, which takes into account public sector taxes.

You'd be more reasonable getting shared accommodation which would be roughly half your current cost for rent per month.
****box car would be 2k, don't bother with a loan you'll just lose a few hundred in interest, just save up for it.
You'll get hurt on tax & insurance definately.
Shared accom will cut monthly bills to 50-70 euro most likely.
Food? Hope you like home-made noodles mate...
Lunches? Get the tinfoil out, ham and cheese sambo's it is...
Mobile Phone costs? Sure you can't afford to go out anyway, who would yeah call.

But enough of that, without rent allowance and greater cuts in basic rate of pay, no one will be doing it for the money thats for damn sure.

grdaHopeful

Hitchroun wrote: »

Actually its closer to: €1,814.00 after tax per month, based on €28,000 per year.

Based on this calculator, which takes into account public sector taxes.

You'd be more reasonable getting shared accommodation which would be roughly half your current cost for rent per month.
****box car would be 2k, don't bother with a loan you'll just lose a few hundred in interest, just save up for it.
You'll get hurt on tax & insurance definately.
Shared accom will cut monthly bills to 50-70 euro most likely.
Food? Hope you like home-made noodles mate...
Lunches? Get the tinfoil out, ham and cheese sambo's it is...
Mobile Phone costs? Sure you can't afford to go out anyway, who would yeah call.

But enough of that, without rent allowance and greater cuts in basic rate of pay, no one will be doing it for the money thats for damn sure.

I don't expect to have to live in a shared house when I'm that age. A fully grown 30 year-old man sharing a flat in D15 is a sign of failure.

If my dole recipient neighbour doesn't have to, why should an experienced member of AGS have to?

Hitchroun

grdaHopeful wrote: »

I don't expect to have to live in a shared house over the age of 30.

If my dole recipient neighbour doesn't have to, why should an experienced member of AGS have to?

Because an experienced member of AGS doesn't want to live month to month without any savings I would imagine. I'm not happy about the circumstance but hey, no one can say we weren't told. At least the pension is still alright.

grdaHopeful

Hitchroun wrote: »

Because an experienced member of AGS doesn't want to live month to month without any savings I would imagine. I'm not happy about the circumstance but hey, no one can say we weren't told. At least the pension is still alright.

Would that be one of those new yellow pack "career average" pensions?

This generation haven't cottened on to the reality that, on average, they will probably be a lot poorer than their parents/retired colleagues.

Hitchroun

grdaHopeful wrote: »

Would that be one of those new yellow pack "career average" pensions?

This generation haven't cottened on to the reality that, on average, they will probably be a lot poorer than their parents/retired colleagues.

No that would be based on the full pension.

Calculated at 1/80 the value of the yearly pay for each serviced year at maximum service of 40/80.

So lets say your average wage over the course of your career is 40k.
40/80 * 40k = 20k per year.

To get that return on an investment you would need a healthy profitable rate per year. Lets say 4% (Good luck getting that each year!) per year, on a safe investment, as it is a pension investment and risk must be low.

To get 20k each year from that investment you would need to invest 500k.
500k *0.04 = 20k.

Thats not mentioning your lump sum 1.5 times your yearly pay!

You would have be a seriously good business man to get the same rate of return on 500k each year, not to mention the work and risk involved in getting it. So all in all, its a decent pension.

D Trent

Should a medical card holder get into the guards will they have to forfeit it?

Hitchroun

D Trent wrote: »

Should a medical card holder get into the guards will they have to forfeit it?

I would imagine it can be used till its expiry date, however after that you can forget about it!

billie1b

Hitchroun wrote: »

I would imagine it can be used till its expiry date, however after that you can forget about it!

Why forget about it? If you don't earn enough you are entitled to your medical card, especially if you have a family

D Trent

Hitchroun wrote: »

I would imagine it can be used till its expiry date, however after that you can forget about it!

Well why? That's not fair. Like one of the recent posters said
Mr Waster next door in receipt of social welfare and thus earning more than the upstanding member of AGS in the future is eligible for medical card,
whys that?

Santa Cruz

A medical card is means tested. Your income and any assets are taken into account. If your circumstances change and you go above the income threshold you are obliged to inform the H.S.E. and you lose the card

It's a sad day for An Garda Siochana if the incomes of it's members is such that it qualifies them for a medical card.

Hitchroun

D Trent wrote: »

Well why? That's not fair. Like one of the recent posters said
Mr Waster next door in receipt of social welfare and thus earning more than the upstanding member of AGS in the future is eligible for medical card,
whys that?

The weekly income limit for under 66 year olds is €184. A garda trainee earns €184 a week. After the trainee period is over you will then be over the €184 limit.

The income limit for a GP visit card is €276.

The waster next door has no future, and that income is temporary situation.

bort_license

I understand that this thread is based on Garda pay and people come here to discuss the topic, but I can't get my head around anyone who would put themselves forward to the Gaurds without fully scanning over the pay they offer before hand.

Being blunt, the money really is Sh**e. It's a public job, so it's expected your not going to be living in luxury. I seen some very interesting posts someone put up based on monthly wages, taking into account their rent, bills etc.

Compared to someone in a "decent" private sector positions,after 10 years service in that company, they'd be more than likely have had a raise once or twice.

In my opinion, I see the Gardai as an extremely average paying career where you'll find it difficult to make any "real" saving compared to what else is to offer (not much at the moment i know :P). However for some (like myself), money comes second to job satisfaction.

grdaHopeful

Hitchroun wrote: »

No that would be based on the full pension.

Calculated at 1/80 the value of the yearly pay for each serviced year at maximum service of 40/80.

So lets say your average wage over the course of your career is 40k.
40/80 * 40k = 20k per year.

To get that return on an investment you would need a healthy profitable rate per year. Lets say 4% (Good luck getting that each year!) per year, on a safe investment, as it is a pension investment and risk must be low.

To get 20k each year from that investment you would need to invest 500k.
500k *0.04 = 20k.

Thats not mentioning your lump sum 1.5 times your yearly pay!

You would have be a seriously good business man to get the same rate of return on 500k each year, not to mention the work and risk involved in getting it. So all in all, its a decent pension.

In other words, yes, a yellow pack pension.

grdaHopeful

bort_license wrote: »

However for some (like myself), money comes second to job satisfaction.

You're either:

- very naive
- a fool

Maybe you'll realise this when you're a pensioner on €24k (€20k net) and still paying rent.

Hitchroun

grdaHopeful wrote: »

In other words, yes, a yellow pack pension.

What does the term "yellow pack pension" mean? I've googled it, but I can't find a definition.

ShodenMcClane

grdaHopeful wrote: »

You're either:

- very naive
- a fool

Maybe you'll realise this when you're a pensioner on €24k (€20k net) and still paying rent.

I would hope to have my mortgage paid off by then. 384 after tax with no rent to pay is very livable.

D Trent

Hitchroun wrote: »

What does the term "yellow pack pension" mean? I've googled it, but I can't find a definition.

Must admit I was embarrassed to ask but not anymore since I'm not the only 1 who hasn't a clue !