New Garda Pay

grdaHopeful

Hitchroun wrote: »

What does the term "yellow pack pension" mean? I've googled it, but I can't find a definition.

Maybe the "new Irish" will be only too happy to jump at the revised T&Cs. I guess AGS is better than collecting aluminum cans on the rubbish tip.

Hitchroun

grdaHopeful wrote: »

You're either:

- very naive
- a fool

Maybe you'll realise this when you're a pensioner on €24k (€20k net) and still paying rent.

Well once you're 66 you're also eligible for the state pension and your civil pension, so its closer to €34k ish.

If you're still paying rent after 30 years being employed then you're just bad with money, or your property aspirations far exceed your financial abilitiy.

Hitchroun

grdaHopeful wrote: »

Maybe the "new Irish" will be only too happy to jump at the revised T&Cs.

Sorry I'm still confused.

Is the term a meaning for the new, lower rate pensions due to the new taxes and lesser pay rates?

grdaHopeful

Hitchroun wrote: »

Well once you're 66 you're also eligible for the state pension and your civil pension, so its closer to €34k ish.

If you're still paying rent after 30 years being employed then you're just bad with money, or your property aspirations far exceed your financial abilitiy.

How can someone who earns €28k save, run a car and live close to Dublin?

You're a wage slave. Better off on the dole. End of.

bort_license

grdaHopeful wrote: »

You're either:

- very naive
- a fool

Maybe you'll realise this when you're a pensioner on €24k (€20k net) and still paying rent.

I'm naive to know that I won't be planning to build a lovely house in the countryside anytime soon when in the AGS!

Raider190

D Trent wrote: »

Should a medical card holder get into the guards will they have to forfeit it?

Your a medical card holder , you get a full time job and you want to hold on to it.......seriously you have to be joking

Hitchroun

grdaHopeful wrote: »

How can someone who earns €28k save, run a car and live close to Dublin?

Well they should own property in Dublin by now, after 30 years of service.

Save? My saving days would be over, keep the lump sum for a rainy day, then spend spend spend. I'm retired! Time to LIVE!

I think €540 a week is very do-able.

Hitchroun

grdaHopeful wrote: »

You're a wage slave. Better off on the dole. End of.

I'm sorry I've lost you here. I think your looking for a job with greater financial aspirations. Go into IT or finance.

We're all "wage slaves" unless you own your own business anyway.

bort_license

Raider190 wrote: »

Your a medical card holder , you get a full time job and you want to hold on to it.......seriously you have to be joking

What I hear happening to the poor Gardai these days you'd think they give them free medical care after getting injured from a confrontation and what not :P

Hitchroun

bort_license wrote: »

What I hear happening to the poor Gardai these days you'd think they give them free medical care after getting injured from a confrontation and what not :P

Don't worry the claim will more than cover the cost! (I hope anyway :P)

grdaHopeful

Hitchroun wrote: »

Well they should own property in Dublin by now, after 30 years of service.

Save? My saving days would be over, keep the lump sum for a rainy day, then spend spend spend. I'm retired! Time to LIVE!

I think €540 a week is very do-able.

I think I'll spend every penny I earn on buying a house (bank of mum & dad will pay for everything else).

540 * 52 * 30 = 3 bed in South Dublin outer suburbs.

I'm so happy I'm serving the State.

bort_license

It seems to me, a life in the Gardai is a financial struggle up until your retired, then you can claim the lottery pension and live like a king compared to your peers!

Hitchroun

grdaHopeful wrote: »

I think I'll spend every penny I earn on buying a house (bank of mum & dad will pay for everything else).

540 * 52 * 30 = 3 bed in South Dublin suburbs.

I'm so happy I'm serving the State.

Sorry if I have realistic expectations.

As for your "bank of mum & dad will pay for everything else" comment, I happen to be from a working class area, with a lone parent. Nothing has ever been handed to me.

I'm more than happy to spend every penny saving because I've never had any pennies to spend in the first place!

I am happy to serve the state, as I have before in the RDF.
I actually like Ireland believe it or not. I see a job in the gardai as a privilege not something to moan about.

Though I'm begining to feel trolled.

grdaHopeful

Hitchroun wrote: »

Sorry if I have realistic expectations.

As for your "bank of mum & dad will pay for everything else" comment, I happen to be from a working class area, with a lone parent. Nothing has ever been handed to me.

I'm more than happy to spend every penny saving because I've never had any pennies to spend in the first place!

I am happy to serve the state, as I have before in the RDF.
I actually like Ireland believe it or not. I see a job in the gardai as a privilege not something to moan about.

Though I'm begining to feel trolled.

We're all "working class" now. Although one is evidently better off being a member of the dole class than those who *actually* "work".

Hitchroun

grdaHopeful wrote: »

We're all "working class" now.

Neilstown is considered fairly "working class" if I remember correctly!

Raider190

bort_license wrote: »

It seems to me, a life in the Gardai is a financial struggle up until your retired, then you can claim the lottery pension and live like a king compared to your peers!

For those who are successful the option of buying a house if they are single may not be there. How much can you obtain as a mortgage based on the gross earnings per year even at 5 years service......just something to consider if you are not among the lucky ones to own a property which is mortgage free

grdaHopeful

Hitchroun wrote: »

Neilstown is considered fairly "working class" if I remember correctly!

Since I was a boy, I always wanted to share a ground floor duplex in D15 with a McDonald's worker from Bydgoszcz.

redout

Raider190 wrote: »

For those who are successful the option of buying a house if they are single may not be there. How much can you obtain as a mortgage based on the gross earnings per year even at 5 years service......just something to consider if you are not among the lucky ones to own a property which is mortgage free

If you are single, most banks will only offer a mortgage if you earn a minimum of €30k and even at that it will be a small one.

Raider190

Hitchroun wrote: »

Sorry if I have realistic expectations.

As for your "bank of mum & dad will pay for everything else" comment, I happen to be from a working class area, with a lone parent. Nothing has ever been handed to me.

I'm more than happy to spend every penny saving because I've never had any pennies to spend in the first place!

I am happy to serve the state, as I have before in the RDF.
I actually like Ireland believe it or not. I see a job in the gardai as a privilege not something to moan about.

Though I'm begining to feel trolled.

Fine and noble sentiments but from a young and naive perspective I would imagine. People have to be realistic. Wonderful to pursue a noble career but this will not pay the bills or put food on the table. Some will have the support of their long suffering parent or parents some will not. I know many members who can't afford to move out of their parents house . I know of many single detectives in their 30's still living in rented accommodation with no hope of ever getting on the property ladder given their salary scale.

Raider190

redout wrote: »

If you are single, most banks will only offer a mortgage if you earn a minimum of €30k and even at that it will be a small one.

I am a bit out of touch with mortgages as I never needed one but are they not based on a multiple of two and a half of your yearly gross salary

bort_license

We will be looking back on Reeling in The Years in 15 years time, with the heading "25,000 applicants for An Garda Siochanna" and we will be thinking how bad things actually where that we where lining up for these below average wages seeing that the average wage across all economic sectors is E36,267 (CSO 2013 Q2).

redout

Raider190 wrote: »

I am a bit out of touch with mortgages as I never needed one but are they not based on a multiple of two and a half of your yearly gross salary

It is generally 5 times your salary and most banks will not let you borrow more than 90% of the value of the property you plan to buy, but mortgages are no longer as obtainable since the recession kicked in.

KERSPLAT!

MOD

More off topic posts deleted. I also have some reported posts to go through

Raider190 banned for constantly going off topic and some warnings handed out, let this be a warning to others. There are posters trying to have a genuine discussion here, please allow them to do so by staying on topic. If you have a problem PM me or report the post, if you want to talk off topic, PM the user

Thanks

-KERSPLAT!

Hitchroun

grdaHopeful wrote: »

Since I was a boy, I always wanted to share a ground floor duplex in D15 with a McDonald's worker from Bydgoszcz.

If you're terrible with money, and from the sounds of it you are, you'll be lucky to get a studio apartment in Donegal! Nevermind a fancy duplex in D15...

Raider190 wrote: »

Fine and noble sentiments but from a young and naive perspective I would imagine. People have to be realistic. Wonderful to pursue a noble career but this will not pay the bills or put food on the table. Some will have the support of their long suffering parent or parents some will not. I know many members who can't afford to move out of their parents house . I know of many single detectives in their 30's still living in rented accommodation with no hope of ever getting on the property ladder given their salary scale.

Each person has their own unique circumstance, obviously I can only speak for my own position. I've done the numbers and it looks amiable. With the right financial planning I can't really see myself sitting in a duplex I'm renting beside some hard working lad from McDonalds... But thats just me, I don't have kids to worry about. It'll put the food on the table for myself and pay my bills and then some.

I personally wouldn't consider my perspective naive as it is simply a different one. I've countered "grdahopeful"'s points as best I can, with direct facts and figures and at best he's retorted with logical fallacies such as ad hominem.

grdaHopeful

Raider190 wrote: »

Fine and noble sentiments but from a young and naive perspective I would imagine. People have to be realistic. Wonderful to pursue a noble career but this will not pay the bills or put food on the table. Some will have the support of their long suffering parent or parents some will not. I know many members who can't afford to move out of their parents house . I know of many single detectives in their 30's still living in rented accommodation with no hope of ever getting on the property ladder given their salary scale.

And if he/she wants to remain in the working classes (like his/her parents/grandpanents), then a career in AGS awaits them.

Incidentally, I believe that loyal, upstanding members of AGS should be paid a decent salary that affords them, at least, the comforts of a dignified lower middle class existence.

But the State want a yellow pack workforce on the cheap.

Hitchroun

grdaHopeful wrote: »

And if he/she wants to remain in the working classes (like his/her parents/grandpanents), then a career in AGS awaits them.

Incidentally, I believe that loyal, upstanding members of AGS should be paid a decent salary that affords them, at least, the comforts of a dignified lower middle class existence.

But the State want a yellow pack workforce on the cheap.

Again, what does "yellow pack" mean, please give me the definition.

Also at what wage do you consider to be working class?

bort_license

grdaHopeful wrote: »

And if he/she wants to remain in the working classes (like his/her parents/grandpanents), then a career in AGS awaits them.

Incidentally, I believe that loyal, upstanding members of AGS should be paid a decent salary that affords them, at least, the comforts of a dignified lower middle class existence.

But the State want a yellow pack workforce on the cheap.

Maybe if it's a single Garda living on their own, they'd be deemed from what I'm guessing your understanding of "working class".

Many Gardai marry teachers and nurses etc, therefore providing a dual income which gives more financial security. And I have yet to see or hear of 2 Gardai get married :P

grdaHopeful

Hitchroun wrote: »

Again, what does "yellow pack" mean, please give me the definition.

Also at what wage do you consider to be working class?

There are many definitions as to what it means to be a member of a particular class (or not). You'll find that it's not the wage slaves who live in the commuter belt who do the deciding.

Anyway, the current package on offer to new entrants is nothing other than a disgrace.

Those trusted individuals tasked with enforcing the law of the land (and putting their lives on the line) ought to be offered a wage that is commensurate with their responsibilities. The State are attempting to cash in on excess labour and get away with a yellow pack police force on the cheap.

Hitchroun

grdaHopeful wrote: »

There are many definitions as to what it means to be a member of a particular class (or not). You'll find that it's not the wage slaves who live in the commuter belt who do the deciding.

Anyway, the current package on offer to new entrants is nothing other than a disgrace.

Those trusted individuals tasked with enforcing the law of the land (and putting their lives on the line) ought to be offered a wage that is commensurate with their responsibilities. The State are attempting to cash in on excess labour and get away with a yellow pack police force on the cheap.

You say so much, yet answer so little, or in this case nothing.

Please explain your definition of that term "yellow pack".
Please explain what you consider to be a working class wage.

carzony

grdaHopeful wrote: »

There are many definitions as to what it means to be a member of a particular class (or not). You'll find that it's not the wage slaves who live in the commuter belt who do the deciding.

Anyway, the current package on offer to new entrants is nothing other than a disgrace.

Those trusted individuals tasked with enforcing the law of the land (and putting their lives on the line) ought to be offered a wage that is commensurate with their responsibilities. The State are attempting to cash in on excess labour and get away with a yellow pack police force on the cheap.

Anyone here not agree that maybe the money is just not there? we have nearly five hundred thousand unemployed, another couple of thousand emigrated. Money is just not coming in..


Most people now have no money, anyone I know who's working has nothing left after their weeks work. All the Unemployed are living off 188 a week and despite people saying this and that 188 is tough to live on.

350-400 a week starts sounding like an attractive offer to me to be honest. Atleast it's guaranteed and your in a good job.. My mate joined the army recently and he is on similar money, yet most of the lads of their units are driving nice cars.. people in the army seem to manage??

grdaHopeful

bort_license wrote: »

Maybe if it's a single Garda living on their own, they'd be deemed from what I'm guessing your understanding of "working class".

Many Gardai marry teachers and nurses etc, therefore providing a dual income which gives more financial security. And I have yet to see or hear of 2 Gardai get married :P

My mum's a teacher. She'll be retiring this August with a 150% + 50% pension. There is a queue of 30-something teachers below her who are desperate to get whatever "hours" they can get their hands on (but they don't want to go above 8 hours a week cos then they'd "lose their dole")

Garda on €23k a year + teacher on €188 a week (plus whatever "hours" they can get their hands on) does not a badly built duplex Finglas in make.

This generation have not cottened on to the fact that, on average, they will be a lot poorer than their parents.

grdaHopeful

Hitchroun wrote: »

You say so much, yet answer so little, or in this case nothing.

Please explain your definition of that term "yellow pack".
Please explain what you consider to be a working class wage.

In the pub I drink in, there are many "working class" men who earn 100k+ and own several houses occupied by so-called "young professionals". They'd be insulted if you referred to them as being "middle class". They know where they came from.

bort_license

grdaHopeful wrote: »

There are many definitions as to what it means to be a member of a particular class (or not). You'll find that it's not the wage slaves who live in the commuter belt who do the deciding.

Anyway, the current package on offer to new entrants is nothing other than a disgrace.

Those trusted individuals tasked with enforcing the law of the land (and putting their lives on the line) ought to be offered a wage that is commensurate with their responsibilities. The State are attempting to cash in on excess labour and get away with a yellow pack police force on the cheap.

"Yellow pack" meaning cheap/value workers?

For the record, the Gardai haven't ever been the cream of the crop regarding pay. Even during the later years of the Celtic Tigers when Gardai where probably at their peak pay (taking over time into account), they where earning substantially less compared to those in IT, Finance, Retail Management and so on.

So, the rate at which Gardai are paid after their first 10 years of service is quite poor, I do agree. But it is nothing new.

Hitchroun

grdaHopeful wrote: »

In the pub I drink in, there are many "working class" men who earn 100k+ and own several houses occupied by so-called "young professionals". They'd be insulted if you referred to them as being "middle class". They know where they came from.

Yes, that is quite nice, I really would love to hear more about the opinions of the auld fellas in your local.

However, others opinions does not stop you from giving your own.
So I'll ask for the third and final time.

What is your definition of "yellow pack"? What does this term mean?
What wage range would YOU (not anyone else, even the lads down the pub) consider to be working class?

KERSPLAT!

grdaHopeful, you have been asked a number of times to explain what "yellow pack" is, please explain or stop using the phrase

-KERSPLAT!

bort_license

grdaHopeful wrote: »

My mum's a teacher. She'll be retiring this August with a 150% + 50% pension. There is a queue of 30-something teachers below her who are desperate to get whatever "hours" they can get their hands on (but they don't want to go above 8 hours a week cos then they'd "lose their dole")

Garda on €23k a year + teacher on €188 a week (plus whatever "hours" they can get their hands on) does not a badly built duplex Finglas in make.

This generation have not cottened on to the fact that, on average, they will be a lot poorer than their parents.

Your Mum is well paid coming to the end of her career, right? The point I was making is Gardai don't rely on the one wage, they'll have another primary source of income coming in. Correct me if I'm wrong tho, teachers wages can rise to 50k? not including state examination corrections, grinds, extra circular. That ain't too bad. Wonder why us Gardai are getting such a bad whip :P

grdaHopeful

Hitchroun wrote: »

Yes, that is quite nice, I really would love to hear more about the opinions of the auld fellas in your local.

However, others opinions does not stop you from giving your own.
So I'll ask for the third and final time.

What is your definition of "yellow pack"? What does this term mean?
What wage range would YOU (not anyone else, even the lads down the pub) consider to be working class?

Here's a little bit of info for you: Class is not a function of income.

I come from a lower middle class background (son of a civil servant and a teacher).

I have the sense to know that even if I had wealth of €100m (indeed won the Euromillions), I couldn't just rock up at Royal Ascot orthe Guards Polo Club and expect people to worship me. If my grandfather made his fortune in the 1920s in New York, I'd still be classified as "new money".

Snobs (the worst of the middle classes) who try to "jump up" the class ladder are generally very unhappy shallow people who spend their lives struggling to pay the monthly repayment on their 141 Range Rover.

grdaHopeful

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

grdaHopeful, you have been asked a number of times to explain what "yellow pack" is, please explain or stop using the phrase

-KERSPLAT!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Pack

A yellow pack police force is one whereby a wealthy business owner pulled over for speeding/drink driving can leave an envelope on the dashboard for the police officer to investigate.

Hitchroun

grdaHopeful wrote: »

Here's a little bit of info for you: Class is not a function of income.

I agree, yet we tread this path due to your comment:

grdaHopeful wrote: »

And if he/she wants to remain in the working classes (like his/her parents/grandpanents), then a career in AGS awaits them.

Incidentally, I believe that loyal, upstanding members of AGS should be paid a decent salary that affords them, at least, the comforts of a dignified lower middle class existence.

But the State want a yellow pack workforce on the cheap.

So in effect, in your previous post you state the new lower pay scale, has now has forced new garda entrants to "remain working class", as the previous pay scale allowed them to enjoy the comforts of a "dignified lower middle class existence".

Do you not see this as a contradiction? I mean you just said class is not a function of income, yet in a previous post you say the lower wage now keeps new working class garda as working class?

grdaHopeful

Hitchroun wrote: »

I agree, yet we tread this path due to your comment:



So in effect, in your previous post you state the new lower pay scale, has now has forced new garda entrants to "remain working class", as the previous pay scale allowed them to enjoy the comforts of a "dignified lower middle class existence".

Do you not see this as a contradiction? I mean you just said class is not a function of income, yet in a previous post you say the lower wage now keeps new working class garda as working class?

If you wish to describe €23k a year as "gentile poverty" for the (former) middle classes, then best of luck to the new entrants!

Hitchroun

grdaHopeful wrote: »

If you wish to describe €23k a year as "gentile poverty" for the (former) middle classes, then best of luck to the new entrants!

I haven't described anything.

Your comment has nothing to do with my post.

I'm trying to discuss this issue but you keep going off on tangents.

I wouldn't be surprised if your next post simply stated "that would be an ecumenical matter".

I'm disengaging from this discussion with you, this exchange does nothing for the thread, we might as well re-name it "Pay rant thread" if were not actually going to debate anything.

grdaHopeful

Hitchroun wrote: »

I haven't described anything.

Your comment has nothing to do with my post.

I'm trying to discuss this issue but you keep going off on tangents.

I wouldn't be surprised if your next post simply stated "that would be an ecumenical matter".

I'm disengaging from this discussion with you, this exchange does nothing for the thread, we might as well re-name it "Pay rant thread" if were not actually going to debate anything.

If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that you will one day attain the lifestyle of your senior colleagues on superior pay/benefits/pensions; more power to you.

The ladder has been pulled up and you're not on it.

bort_license

grdaHopeful wrote: »

If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that you will one day attain the lifestyle of your senior colleagues on superior pay/benefits/pensions; more power to you.

The ladder has been pulled up and you're not on it.

It happened at the start of the 00s and it'll happen again. Many entrants into the Garda Trainee course the next coming years will be only doing so for a job, any job. Of course, there'll be those who have always wanted to do it and so on. Anyway, those doing it just for a job will be gone like a shot when things pick up and theres an opportunity to make good money. So it's not like these people that get in will be destined to live on a below average wage for the rest of their life.

Mokuba

I've always been really interested in it, I'm in college at the moment though studying for a degree with a potentially, historically, relatively lucrative job at the end.

I've gone through the process thus far and I'm among the 600 who are being tested right now, but the more I look and consider the pay scale, the more I don't know if I am able to do this.

I really do have a genuine interest, but the new pay scales are such a drastic cut that I am having massive doubts. I commend anybody who is able to look past the pay completely, and I'm not somebody who would put salary over job satisfaction, but the reality of the situation is that a lot of the new recruits will most likely face big financial struggles.

Once the initial thrill of "I can't believe I got in!" wears off and you are doing the exact same job as someone who is earning 10k more than you, people who were protected while you were completely shafted - how many people have honestly looked and claimed that they could deal with that.

As I said, I know I'd enjoy the job but to the more I think about this - the more I'm not sure if I can do it. I tried to keep my head in the sand, not face up to the figures, and I imagine many more are the same, but regardless of how much I am interested, the new pay scales are staring me in the face like a massive hazard warning.

Is any other stage 3 candidate worried about their ability to have an acceptable quality of life considering the new scale? (I fully appreciate that there are people with mortgages and loans and bills going for this - whereas I don't have the current financial responsibilities or obligations that others do as a younger applicant (22)). When it comes down to it really, will the new recruits be able to live with the new pay scales, the potential jealousy etc once the "honeymoon period" is over?

ShodenMcClane

Mokuba wrote: »

I've always been really interested in it, I'm in college at the moment though studying for a degree with a potentially, historically, relatively lucrative job at the end.

I've gone through the process thus far and I'm among the 600 who are being tested right now, but the more I look and consider the pay scale, the more I don't know if I am able to do this.

I really do have a genuine interest, but the new pay scales are such a drastic cut that I am having massive doubts. I commend anybody who is able to look past the pay completely, and I'm not somebody who would put salary over job satisfaction, but the reality of the situation is that a lot of the new recruits will most likely face big financial struggles.

Once the initial thrill of "I can't believe I got in!" wears off and you are doing the exact same job as someone who is earning 10k more than you, people who were protected while you were completely shafted - how many people have honestly looked and claimed that they could deal with that.

As I said, I know I'd enjoy the job but to the more I think about this - the more I'm not sure if I can do it. I tried to keep my head in the sand, not face up to the figures, and I imagine many more are the same, but regardless of how much I am interested, the new pay scales are staring me in the face like a massive hazard warning.

Is any other stage 3 candidate worried about their ability to have an acceptable quality of life considering the new scale? (I fully appreciate that there are people with mortgages and loans and bills going for this - whereas I don't have the current financial responsibilities or obligations that others do as a younger applicant (22)). When it comes down to it really, will the new recruits be able to live with the new pay scales, the potential jealousy etc once the "honeymoon period" is over?

I'm very much in the same boat. Do I want this job enough to be struggling for years financially?

carzony

I really believe the only people who will stay in the garda will be people who are young and have no responsibilities. Lots are only focusing on how hard it'll be to get in. I think once they get there they'll probabky think 'feck this'


Look at the army.. the amount that pass all the tests and then leave after a few weeks is unreal..

Canyon86

The fact of the matter is,

The pay for new recruits is simply unsustainable for anybody with financial commitments loans family etc,

It would be barely doable for any 22 year old, only just,

Serious thought needs to be given to this aspect of the job,

WilcoOut

Canyon86 wrote: »

The fact of the matter is,

The pay for new recruits is simply unsustainable for anybody with financial commitments loans family etc,

It would be barely doable for any 22 year old, only just,

Serious thought needs to be given to this aspect of the job,

Sure it wont be long until were on career breaks


http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/36000-career-breaks-spark-garda-manpower-fears-30118981.html

Canyon86

WilcoOut wrote: »

Sure it wont be long until were on career breaks


http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/36000-career-breaks-spark-garda-manpower-fears-30118981.html

True Wilco,

Was just about to link it there

Alkers

Mokuba wrote: »

I've always been really interested in it, I'm in college at the moment though studying for a degree with a potentially, historically, relatively lucrative job at the end.

I've gone through the process thus far and I'm among the 600 who are being tested right now, but the more I look and consider the pay scale, the more I don't know if I am able to do this.

I really do have a genuine interest, but the new pay scales are such a drastic cut that I am having massive doubts. I commend anybody who is able to look past the pay completely, and I'm not somebody who would put salary over job satisfaction, but the reality of the situation is that a lot of the new recruits will most likely face big financial struggles.

Once the initial thrill of "I can't believe I got in!" wears off and you are doing the exact same job as someone who is earning 10k more than you, people who were protected while you were completely shafted - how many people have honestly looked and claimed that they could deal with that.

As I said, I know I'd enjoy the job but to the more I think about this - the more I'm not sure if I can do it. I tried to keep my head in the sand, not face up to the figures, and I imagine many more are the same, but regardless of how much I am interested, the new pay scales are staring me in the face like a massive hazard warning.

Is any other stage 3 candidate worried about their ability to have an acceptable quality of life considering the new scale? (I fully appreciate that there are people with mortgages and loans and bills going for this - whereas I don't have the current financial responsibilities or obligations that others do as a younger applicant (22)). When it comes down to it really, will the new recruits be able to live with the new pay scales, the potential jealousy etc once the "honeymoon period" is over?

I've bowed out for stage three for pretty much the same reason.