New Garda Pay

Santa Cruz

bort_license wrote: »

Maybe if it's a single Garda living on their own, they'd be deemed from what I'm guessing your understanding of "working class".

Many Gardai marry teachers and nurses etc, therefore providing a dual income which gives more financial security. And I have yet to see or hear of 2 Gardai get married :P

You must live a very sheltered life. I am aware of many husband/wife marriages

Santa Cruz

It's all very well being romantic and saying you are not concerned about the salary as "I always wanted to be a Garda"
Maybe you are thinking you will be landed into a busy Dublin station and given the opportunity of progressing through the many different crime units, drug units etc. where job satisfaction and opportunities to earn a bit extra will arise.
However there are Gardaí sent to bog stations in the midlands or on the west coast, maybe with no patrol car even, minimum opportunity of getting into specialised units and you wasting away on 350 a week.
Is that worth giving up your degree course for or forgetting about your university qualifications. I can see a lot of problems when financial reality hits home.
The Government have done the Gardaí a great injustice in the actions of undermining the pay scales.

billie1b

'Yellow Pack' is a term used by Permanent or Full Time employees in a job were new recruits or employees will come into the job and do the same job for a considerable amount less than Full Time/Permanent employees. Usually causes problems between both groups as the lesser paid group are usually offered the over-time and extra work as it ends up cheaper for the company to pay them instead of the Permanent/Full Time employees, the company then try to push the Permanent/Full Time employees out slowly, one by one and then make the 'Yellow Packs' Permanent/Full Time and the cycle starts all over again.

Hope this helps.

Thecameraman

It's good to see people finally talking about this issue, it seems people are been paranoid thinking that they will bring up there comments here in a interview if they say anything negative about Ags. Most people would agree that the pay is poor and even if you wanted to be a garda for life it still would put you off. If you commit yourself to been a garda you will never live a luxury life but you would still hope for above adverage one, but with this pay looks unlikely.

cursai

What would this lump sum be after tax? €30000 lump sum or €12000 per year. Cant use those online calculators. The java is blocked.

grdaHopeful

I would say €35 or €40k starting off is a fair wage for a new garda (rent a flat, run a car, eat out once or twice a month). Loyalty is valuable and should be rewarded -- someone with 15 years experience should expect to be on double that.

Gardai are people who:

- are trusted officers of the state (and therefore held to higher standards)
- put their lives on the line for the protection of others
- can't do nixers/run a business on the side
- are on call 24/7/365

€23k a year is an insult. I'd prefer to be spat at full force in the face than take on those responsibilities for that.

KERSPLAT!

grdaHopeful wrote: »

I would say €35 or €40k starting off is a fair wage for a new garda (rent a flat, run a car, eat out once or twice a month). Loyalty is valuable and should be rewarded -- someone with 15 years experience should expect to be on double that.

Gardai are people who:

- are trusted officers of the state (and therefore held to higher standards)
- put their lives on the line for the protection of others
- can't do nixers/run a business on the side
- are on call 24/7/365

€23k a year is an insult. I'd prefer to be spat at full force in the face than take on those responsibilities for that.

Did you apply to AGS this year?

grdaHopeful

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Did you apply to AGS this year?

Nope. Though I applied to the army once. Didn't make the cut.

D Trent

grdaHopeful wrote: »

Nope. Though I applied to the army once. Didn't make the cut.

Why choose the name grdaHopeful in that case.
May I ask?

Hitchroun

D Trent wrote: »

Why choose the name grdaHopeful in that case.
May I ask?

He was probably hopeful until he saw the pay.

Zadie10

Hitchroun wrote: »

He was probably hopeful until he saw the pay.

Well they only registered yesterday so more likely they chose the name to stir up ****!!

grdaHopeful

Zadie10 wrote: »

Well they only registered yesterday so more likely they chose the name to stir up ****!!

It should be obvious that I'm a single issue sign-up. If the moderators don't like that, they're free to ban me and/or delete all my posts.

Hitchroun

It still comes down the age old question lads, a job you want to actually do versus money.

flutered

grdaHopeful wrote: »

I would say €35 or €40k starting off is a fair wage for a new garda (rent a flat, run a car, eat out once or twice a month). Loyalty is valuable and should be rewarded -- someone with 15 years experience should expect to be on double that.

Gardai are people who:

- are trusted officers of the state (and therefore held to higher standards)
- put their lives on the line for the protection of others
- can't do nixers/run a business on the side
- are on call 24/7/365

€23k a year is an insult. I'd prefer to be spat at full force in the face than take on those responsibilities for that.

store security have been spat at for decades, back in the day when they were getting £3.69 per hour, dunnes cashiers were on £5.80, why were they doing it, they had to eat etc.

mfergus

flutered wrote: »

store security have been spat at for decades, back in the day when they were getting £3.69 per hour, dunnes cashiers were on £5.80, why were they doing it, they had to eat etc.

Did store security have to stay up until 7 am away from their families a couple of nights a week for 30 years?

Did store security have to sit with families at 4am and explain how a family member died?

Can't compare store security to this, in fairness

Tommy_utd16

mfergus wrote: »

Did store security have to stay up until 7 am away from their families a couple of nights a week for 30 years?

Did store security have to sit with families at 4am and explain how a family member died?

Can't compare store security to this, in fairness

Well if you don't like the money for what's involved then don't bother sitting the next round. There is plenty of people out there looking for jobs happy to work

mfergus

Tommy_utd16 wrote: »

There is plenty of people out there looking for jobs happy to work

That's exactly the reason why the pay they are offering is crap.

Santa Cruz

Tommy_utd16 wrote: »

Well if you don't like the money for what's involved then don't bother sitting the next round. There is plenty of people out there looking for jobs happy to work

And that's exactly what the Government are depending on.
We will have to accept that Ireland is moving towards a low wage economy for a good percentage of the workforce. Professionals like solicitors, doctors and qualified people in the private sector will continue to earn big money. The days of Gardaí making good money from overtime is gone. Basic pay and allowances is the future. Any lad with a skill might start do a few nixers now. At least the shift system allows you good time off to devote to other income earning jobs. There will always people wanting a bit of gardening, painting etc. done

Tommy_utd16

Santa Cruz wrote: »

And that's exactly what the Government are depending on.
We will have to accept that Ireland is moving towards a low wage economy for a good percentage of the workforce. Professionals like solicitors, doctors and qualified people in the private sector will continue to earn big money. The days of Gardaí making good money from overtime is gone. Basic pay and allowances is the future. Any lad with a skill might start do a few nixers now. At least the shift system allows you good time off to devote to other income earning jobs. There will always people wanting a bit of gardening, painting etc. done

Well then what do you propose people do? Everyone in the competition march on the dail?
Tell you one thing for nothing whoever gets accepted make sure you don't sign up for the GRA because they done f**k all to keep the pay the same for the new recruits.

Santa Cruz

Tommy_utd16 wrote: »

Well then what do you propose people do? Everyone in the competition march on the dail?
Tell you one thing for nothing whoever gets accepted make sure you don't sign up for the GRA because they done f**k all to keep the pay the same for the new recruits.

If people are happy to be paid these rates let them join up and look forward to a life of scrounging. Anyone else use their initiative and intelligence to get a position in this country or elsewhere that will give them a good standard of living.
And before anyone says that there is an upturn in the economy, maybe there is for the professionals, property men, legal profession. The ordinary P.AY.E. worker in this country is destined to be living on rubbish money while subsidising the rest. You have only one life and you should use it to maximise your standard of living and lifestyle. Getting paid ****e rates of of pay to clean up society's problems. No thanks Mr. Shatter. As for the G.R.A. they are finished.

WilcoOut

Santa Cruz wrote: »

If people are happy to be paid these rates let them join up and look forward to a life of scrounging. Anyone else use their initiative and intelligence to get a position in this country or elsewhere that will give them a good standard of living.
And before anyone says that there is an upturn in the economy, maybe there is for the professionals, property men, legal profession. The ordinary P.AY.E. worker in this country is destined to be living on rubbish money while subsidising the rest. You have only one life and you should use it to maximise your standard of living and lifestyle. Getting paid ****e rates of of pay to clean up society's problems. No thanks Mr. Shatter. As for the G.R.A. they are finished.

For the vast majority of young irish people being paid less is the norm

i know i currently am

i get less pay and more hours than alot of my colleagues.

so what do i do? Moan? Whinge? Sit at home?


No. I have to get on with it and make a life for myself.

ill never be a rich man but i will survive

we know its a sucky situation santa cruz - but get busy living or get busy dying!!

bort_license

In the last couple of years I've noticed a surprising amount of Bean Gardai, to the extent where I've seen more than male Gardai! I understand that about 1/4 of force are female (about 25%) according to a poll taken in 2013 (careersportal.ie). Would this have anything to do with the Garda pay today being seen as only secondary source of income, where in this case the man would bring in the primary source through other jobs in private sector, for example.

ShodenMcClane

Santa Cruz wrote: »

As for the G.R.A. they are finished.

Please explain.

Santa Cruz

ShodenMcClane wrote: »

Please explain.

1. Made many enemies in the political world due to blue flu
2. Always seem to pick the wrong issue to fight on
3. Some spoke persons from GRA have the ability to put the foot in the mouth too often instead of talking a bit of sense
4. Don't know when to shut up

Hitchroun

Santa Cruz wrote: »

1. Made many enemies in the political world due to blue flu
2. Always seem to pick the wrong issue to fight on
3. Some spoke persons from GRA have the ability to put the foot in the mouth too often instead of talking a bit of sense
4. Don't know when to shut up

I would be far more concerned about the perception of new entrants of the GRA.

Considering the pay cuts to new entrants and the loss of allowances, including rent allowance for new entrants.

"Sure they threw us under a bus, why would we join?" mentality for example.

I'm sure the cost of membership wouldn't be as easy to swallow with the extra cuts.

ShodenMcClane

Santa Cruz wrote: »

1. Made many enemies in the political world due to blue flu
2. Always seem to pick the wrong issue to fight on
3. Some spoke persons from GRA have the ability to put the foot in the mouth too often instead of talking a bit of sense
4. Don't know when to shut up

Sorry, I didn't make myself very clear: I understand they have done a lot of very stupid things, but when you say they are finished do you mean a lot of people have left them, they are no longer respected or what?

TheHappyChappy

ShodenMcClane wrote: »

Please explain.

Santa Cruz seems never to return to back up & explain anything my friend I'd save your energy for banging head against wall.

Santa Cruz

TheHappyChappy wrote: »

Santa Cruz seems never to return to back up & explain anything my friend I'd save your energy for banging head against wall.

Have you read points 1-4 above.
As for Shodden McClane I would think that you are right. New Gardaí students will see how their conditions are different from serving Gardaí due to the G.R.A. thinking short term. It will find it hard to justify taking a membership fee from new members which will undermine their power base.

grdaHopeful

The aspirational classes (with postgraduate degrees coming out every orifice) need to understand that only 1% of them will actually *arrive* at their chosen destination. We live in a globalised world now where wealth is more and more centralised. Nowadays there isn't much room between the wealthy and those on the dole.

This generation haven't cottened on to the reality that on average, they're probably going to be a lot poorer than their parents. The demographics simply don't support a €500 to €1000 week retirement for today's baby boomers.

You might have an i phone 7, a €1000 telly from Harvey Normans and drive a 141 Nissan Qashqai on hire purchase (all the trappings of "wealth"), however you're actually a wave slave.

bort_license

grdaHopeful wrote: »

The aspirational classes (with postgraduate degrees coming out every orifice) need to understand that only 1% of them will actually *arrive* at their chosen destination. We live in a globalised world now where wealth is more and more centralised. Nowadays there isn't much room between the wealthy and those on the dole.

This generation haven't cottened on to the reality that on average, they're probably going to be a lot poorer than their parents. The demographics simply don't support a €500 to €1000 week retirement for today's baby boomers.

You might have an i phone 7, a €1000 telly from Harvey Normans and drive a 141 Nissan Qashqai on hire purchase (all the trappings of "wealth"), however you're actually a wave slave.

I agree completely with you, but I find it hard to make the link how this is related to the Gardai pay. Are you trying to get at the theme that the Garda pension, at an outrageously high rate, will be something of the past in years to come? It's going that way whether we like it or not!

KERSPLAT!

MOD

Just gimmie 5 minutes to clean up the thread and I'll reopen it, cheers

-KERSPLAT!

KERSPLAT!

Sorted, thanks

-KERSPLAT!

Mokuba

I'm withdrawing from it now because of my concerns over the pay. If I'm doing it, you can be sure that many others are too. Follow up from my post on page 17.

Hopefully that means that a few others who think they can live with the pay, but are in a different band, get a chance to move forward. I do get the feeling that a lot aren't giving serious thought to the pay scale (I only seriously thought about it in the last week), which is an absolute disgrace by the way and is being rationalised by the high number of applicants. But if this is really your dream then I wish you all the best!

Hitchroun

Mokuba wrote: »

I'm withdrawing from it now because of my concerns over the pay. If I'm doing it, you can be sure that many others are too. Follow up from my post on page 17.

Hopefully that means that a few others who think they can live with the pay, but are in a different band, get a chance to move forward. I do get the feeling that a lot aren't giving serious thought to the pay scale (I only seriously thought about it in the last week), which is an absolute disgrace by the way and is being rationalised by the high number of applicants. But if this is really your dream then I wish you all the best!

A tough decision, but I wish you luck whatever you decide to do!

D Trent

Mokuba wrote: »

I'm withdrawing from it now because of my concerns over the pay. If I'm doing it, you can be sure that many others are too. Follow up from my post on page 17.

Hopefully that means that a few others who think they can live with the pay, but are in a different band, get a chance to move forward. I do get the feeling that a lot aren't giving serious thought to the pay scale (I only seriously thought about it in the last week), which is an absolute disgrace by the way and is being rationalised by the high number of applicants. But if this is really your dream then I wish you all the best!

Are you not gonna do your stage 3 test anyway?

Canyon86

Mokuba wrote: »

I'm withdrawing from it now because of my concerns over the pay. If I'm doing it, you can be sure that many others are too. Follow up from my post on page 17.

Hopefully that means that a few others who think they can live with the pay, but are in a different band, get a chance to move forward. I do get the feeling that a lot aren't giving serious thought to the pay scale (I only seriously thought about it in the last week), which is an absolute disgrace by the way and is being rationalised by the high number of applicants. But if this is really your dream then I wish you all the best!

Fair play for making a wise decision to think long term,

23,000 is an insult for any garda at any rank imo,

you are correct saying the pay isnt sustainable,

good luck with your future

Mokuba

D Trent wrote: »

Are you not gonna do your stage 3 test anyway?

No.

I feel like if I did it and got past, then maybe I would have started letting the fact that it's so close, within touching distance, cloud my judgement. Also I feel like it would just take up a lot of time and energy, if I continued with the process, purely to have all my options open.

Honestly I look at that scale and even now don't see myself being able to provide a potential family the lifestyle I'd like to be able to provide for them. I have more interest in AGS than what I am currently studying (not to say that I don't like what I am studying), but it's just so off-putting. Maybe I'll regret my decision and end up struggling to find work with my degree when I get it. But I just can't justify working for that pay scale, especially when it only exists because existing Gardai wanted to protect themselves. What kind of a toxic work environment could that be (not saying it will be, but it has all the ingredients of being).

As I said, good luck to all those who move forward, and all those who really want this. Sorry for speaking so candidly - the whole subject just angers me and I'm not even in AGS right now.

Santa Cruz

Mokuba wrote: »

No.

I feel like if I did it and got past, then maybe I would have started letting the fact that it's so close, within touching distance, cloud my judgement. Also I feel like it would just take up a lot of time and energy, if I continued with the process, purely to have all my options open.

Honestly I look at that scale and even now don't see myself being able to provide a potential family the lifestyle I'd like to be able to provide for them. I have more interest in AGS than what I am currently studying (not to say that I don't like what I am studying), but it's just so off-putting. Maybe I'll regret my decision and end up struggling to find work with my degree when I get it. But I just can't justify working for that pay scale, especially when it only exists because existing Gardai wanted to protect themselves. What kind of a toxic work environment could that be (not saying it will be, but it has all the ingredients of being).

As I said, good luck to all those who move forward, and all those who really want this. Sorry for speaking so candidly - the whole subject just angers me and I'm not even in AGS right now.

Of course existing Gardaí wanted to protect themselves. Had they any choice? In the present climate everyone has to look after themselves.
The blame doesn't lie with ordinary Gardaí who have their own financial demands. They went in to the Gardaí in the belief that they were going to earn certain figures, entered into mortgages etc. based on those figures and then wages and conditions are hammered.
The new applicants have the advantage of knowing that their pay scales are what they are and will be.

Hitchroun

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Of course existing Gardaí wanted to protect themselves. Had they any choice? In the present climate everyone has to look after themselves.
The blame doesn't lie with ordinary Gardaí who have their own financial demands. They went in to the Gardaí in the belief that they were going to earn certain figures, entered into mortgages etc. based on those figures and then wages and conditions are hammered.
The new applicants have the advantage of knowing that their pay scales are what they are and will be.

Until June.

van_beano

Well this thread has descended into a depressing place all of a sudden.

I would suggest to everyone to think for themselves about going forward for the job or not, don't take it that because 1 or 2 on this thread have dropped out that you think you should aswell.

On the issue of pay - nobody joined AGS (on the previous pay scale) to get rich, that won't happen unless you reach the lofty heights of at least Chief-Super. I have not seen the new pay scales so I can't comment in it, someone mentioned €10k perhaps? The rent allowance will make up just over €4k of it, that's a huge chunk. I can actually see a lot of disgruntled new members in the future when they see the next Junior member (roughly 5 years service) to them on the unit is on about €15k+ more than them.

A new career in AGS is now more of a calling than a lifestyle choice.

Mokuba

van_beano wrote: »

I would suggest to everyone to think for themselves about going forward for the job or not, don't take it that because 1 or 2 on this thread have dropped out that you think you should aswell.

I've tried to stress that as much as possible while being 100 percent honest about my feelings.

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Of course existing Gardaí wanted to protect themselves. Had they any choice? In the present climate everyone has to look after themselves.
The blame doesn't lie with ordinary Gardaí who have their own financial demands. They went in to the Gardaí in the belief that they were going to earn certain figures, entered into mortgages etc. based on those figures and then wages and conditions are hammered.
The new applicants have the advantage of knowing that their pay scales are what they are and will be.

Indeed. But I personally feel like I'd struggle with knowing how protected they were while I was sold up the river, and how much more they are making while I struggle to get by. Again, if I were them I'd look out for myself, but the Agreement has fundamental flaws the way it is. I'd be genuinely shocked if there weren't massive problems down the line.

Typer Monkey

bort_license wrote: »

In the last couple of years I've noticed a surprising amount of Bean Gardai, to the extent where I've seen more than male Gardai! I understand that about 1/4 of force are female (about 25%) according to a poll taken in 2013 (careersportal.ie). Would this have anything to do with the Garda pay today being seen as only secondary source of income, where in this case the man would bring in the primary source through other jobs in private sector, for example.

What???? Since when is the woman's income automatically considered secondary while the man brings home the real bacon (pardon the pun!)?

I'm a female Garda (what's a bean Garda?) and I out earn my partner and we have a child. What you have stated above makes out that women join AGS as a little part time number. I can assure you 10 hour tours 6 days on the trot is no little part time secondary income distraction. How patronising

mfergus

van_beano wrote: »

On the issue of pay . I can actually see a lot of disgruntled new members in the future when they see the next Junior member (roughly 5 years service) to them on the unit is on about €15k+ more than .

It would actually be an even bigger gap. The 10%, the 4k rent allowance and the 5 years of increments.
But you're right, it will cause tension.

WilcoOut

mfergus wrote: »

It would actually be an even bigger gap. The 10%, the 4k rent allowance and the 5 years of increments.
But you're right, it will cause tension.

Thats a fact of life in every job at the mo

get over it and get on with it

bort_license

Typer Monkey wrote: »

What???? Since when is the woman's income automatically considered secondary while the man brings home the real bacon (pardon the pun!)?

I'm a female Garda (what's a bean Garda?) and I out earn my partner and we have a child. What you have stated above makes out that women join AGS as a little part time number. I can assure you 10 hour tours 6 days on the trot is no little part time secondary income distraction. How patronising

I understand the use of the Irish word for female is baineann (or bean more commonly used) and that this term isn't used formally anymore, however no insult was meant by it if any at all was taking.

My post wasn't out there to rise anyone, it was a simple observation and I wished to bring it up in this thread as I felt this way. In relation to yourself making more than your partner, I'm sure there are plenty other ladies out there doing the same.

The post was aimed to draw attention to a possible trend in men not taking these positions in the Guards, as the pay can be perceived as too low. Not saying ladies like yourself would settle with low pay, it was a mere suggestion that maybe what was once a financially solid job which could provide for a family, is now barley serving for financially struggled families nationwide.

I'm quiet aware of the hard work all Gardai put into their job and I for one believe they should be paid as much as other public sector workers.

mfergus

WilcoOut wrote: »

Thats a fact of life in every job at the mo

get over it and get on with it

Perfect attitude.

WilcoOut

Essential watching for new recruits


http://www.adweek.com/adfreak/british-ads-capture-often-brutal-horrors-police-work-156506#.UzK_xKY5DVq.facebook

mix_up

van_beano wrote: »

Well this thread has descended into a depressing place all of a sudden.

I would suggest to everyone to think for themselves about going forward for the job or not, don't take it that because 1 or 2 on this thread have dropped out that you think you should aswell.

On the issue of pay - nobody joined AGS (on the previous pay scale) to get rich, that won't happen unless you reach the lofty heights of at least Chief-Super. I have not seen the new pay scales so I can't comment in it, someone mentioned €10k perhaps? The rent allowance will make up just over €4k of it, that's a huge chunk. I can actually see a lot of disgruntled new members in the future when they see the next Junior member (roughly 5 years service) to them on the unit is on about €15k+ more than them.

A new career in AGS is now more of a calling than a lifestyle choice.

most people never come close to being rich so " not being rich " is a bogus argument for choosing not to join the guards

I think this mindset stems from the kind of public sector union mantra which was doing the rounds several years ago when cuts first became a reality

they potrayed public servants as having chosen to serve mother Ireland during the boom , instead of becoming denis o brien in the land of milk and honey private sector types , ergo , if you get a job in the private sector , lavish wealth is sure to follow and so joining the public service has no real financial rewards

and no a career in AGS for most people is not a " calling " , its a means to a steady pay cheque and a very decent pension , very few idealogues in uniform

Scouser

WilcoOut wrote: »

Essential watching for new recruits


http://www.adweek.com/adfreak/british-ads-capture-often-brutal-horrors-police-work-156506#.UzK_xKY5DVq.facebook

wow

that first one

maggie


intense!!!!!!!!!!!

Ketron

I have been thinking long and hard about this for the last few months and have decided not to continue with the selection procedure due to the poor pay for new gardai. I wish the remaining few all the best in the competition, and you have one less person to compete against