RAG Week 2014

retro:electro

I think he means you embarrassed yourself when you switched from "they have too much money" to "they haven't got any money that's why"..
I am a student and am quite offended about some of the sweeping statements on here.
Anyway rag week is over, and so should this thread.

zarquon

anna080 wrote: »

I think he means you embarrassed yourself when you switched from "they have too much money" to "they haven't got any money that's why"..
I am a student and am quite offended about some of the sweeping statements on here.
Anyway rag week is over, and so should this thread.

Nope, both are valid and support one another. Some students cannot afford to party 24x7 during rag week and therefore the week is calmer than it used to be. There are still some who do go out 24x7 and people who do that probably do have too much money. Believe it or not in current society we have different tiers of class and wealth. Why is it so difficult to comprehend that NUIG has both those with surplus wealth and those with deficit wealth studying side by side? The existence of one group does not negate the existence of the other and it's actually embarassing that some posters cannot comprehend this underlying point vis a vis the discussion.

Like i said, these are concurrent thoughts, not digressive or alternative and i think it's embarassing that SOME (NOT ALL, before some sensitive, undiscerning soul jumps on me!!) called graduates or students cannot ascertain the ideological differences in such thought processes.

elefant

zarquon wrote: »

I look at all those graduates who have to immigrate and say to myself if that have excellent academic records and first class honours across the board they would have no issue finding employement and career opportunities in this country.

.

This certainly isn't true. It's a crass generalisation to say that no high-honour level students are having to leave to find proper employment. Just as it is to imply that students who go on all-day sessions during ragweek are students who will certainly get poor grades.

retro:electro

zarquon wrote: »

Nope, both are valid and support one another. Some students cannot afford to party 24x7 during rag week and therefore the week is calmer than it used to be. There are still some who do go out 24x7 and people who do that probably do have too much money.

Like i said, these are concurrent thoughts, not digressive or alternative and i think it's embarassing that so called graduates or students cannot ascertain the ideological differences in such thought processes.

Yes they both may have merit and even I, a college student can manage to understand that believe it or not! But the fact that you switched from one point to the exact opposite in a desperate attempt to back up your argument is what seems a little embarrassing. Anyway it's clear that you don't like to be proved wrong, so I do expect some sort of an attempt of you to refute what I have just said.
Have a nice day

zarquon

elefant wrote: »

This certainly isn't true. It's a crass generalisation to say that no high-honour level students are having to leave to find proper employment. Just as it is to imply that students who go on all-day sessions during ragweek are students who will certainly get poor grades.

I would counter that and say it is a reasonable generalisation. I would certainly accept their are exceptions to the case thankfully but in generally logic would dictate a higher likelihood of these generalisations to be true than the reverse.

WallyGUFC

elefant wrote: »

This certainly isn't true. It's a crass generalisation to say that no high-honour level students are having to leave to find proper employment. Just as it is to imply that students who go on all-day sessions during ragweek are students who will certainly get poor grades.

Exactly. To say that only the lower-achieving students go abroad is nothing short of complete and utter b0ll0cks. I myself have relatives who've emigrated, both by choice and by necessity, who were very high achievers in college, higher than I'll ever achieve I imagine. Of course, some people will be forced to go over due to a lack of qualifications or whatever, but the generalisations in here are ridiculous.

I also don't understand how you can blame both too much money and too little money for the apparent "chaos" that occurs every RAG Week. Maybe that's just down to the fact that I was out two nights this week and, because of this, will surely achieve only a sub-standard degree.

zarquon

anna080 wrote: »

Yes they both may have merit and even I, a college student can manage to understand that believe it or not! But the fact that you switched from one point to the exact opposite in a desperate attempt to back up your argument is what seems a little embarrassing. Anyway it's clear that you don't like to be proved wrong, so I do expect some sort of an attempt of you to refute what I have just said.
Have a nice day

To give you your rebuttal i would remind that most debate can have a multifacted approach. To those that are shocked, dismayed, embarrassed etc, when a singular approach is not taken would do themselves no injustice to partake of some debating society events.

Have a nice day also and know that this is just an attempt at intelligent discussion with no malice intended. I know that those who are actively spending time and posting in the thread are not going to be the antisocial ones drinking 24x7, pissing on peoples property and throwing eggs and rocks/stones at cars. I haven't experienced the eggs this year for the first time in a few years. Maybe eggs are too expensive now

zarquon

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Exactly. To say that only the lower-achieving students go abroad is nothing short of complete and utter b0ll0cks. I myself have relatives who've emigrated, both by choice and by necessity, who were very high achievers in college, higher than I'll ever achieve I imagine. Of course, some people will be forced to go over due to a lack of qualifications or whatever, but the generalisations in here are ridiculous.

More sweeping generalization. I have highlighted your own convenient addition to my post above. What i said was a generalization not explicit fact. Those who have to emigrate are probably more likely to be lower acheiving. I say this based on the level of candidates whos CVs come across my desk regularly and get quickly discarded as well as the experience of my peers who had to immigrate and i know full well their academic acheivements.

Then there are a minority who emigrated simply because their field of research is better suited to other nations, for example i have a friend who is a researcher at Cern. I would not expect him to go looking for a collider in Ireland!

At the end of the day every man and his dog knows that the massive increase in immigration over the last few years is linked to the lack of jobs available and thus the smaller job pool will only be attained by the best candidates. In pre-recession times, the graduates could dicates their terms such was the scarcity of candidates. Nowadays, employers can dicates the terms instead due to the scarcity of jobs which will invariably go to those with the best academic records. (for graduate jobs!)

But then all you have to do is view the boozed up masses of Irish (working as barmen, bouncers etc with degrees!) hitting the streets of Sydney and Melbourne and realise that some people never changed their lifestyle from their college days.

WallyGUFC wrote: »

I also don't understand how you can blame both too much money and too little money for the apparent "chaos" that occurs every RAG Week. Maybe that's just down to the fact that I was out two nights this week and, because of this, will surely achieve only a sub-standard degree.

I would ask you to re-read my posts rather than explaining again! I blamed too much money for the chaos of Rag Week at the height of it's troubles and concurrently suggested that the year on year reduction in Rag Week problems is following a similar curve to the year on year decrease in disposable income available to some students (BUT NOT ALL!!!!!)

zarquon

zarquon wrote: »

As it's such a sensitive topic i think i'll do some sensitive souls a favour and leave the entitlement discusssion alone afterall it's surely a complete coincidence that Rag week behaviour has improved throughout the course of the recession and the troubles peaked at the height of the bubble. :rolleyes:

This is not true. The worst rag week troubles happened in the last 3 years. The height of the Celtic tiger was a good few years before that when I was an undergrad myself and to be honest there was a lot less complaints about rag week back then.

zarquon wrote: »

There are plenty i see going to and from college, attending lectures fully this week and even spending significant time in the library whilst their peers "blow of steam". Those are the people who will be the most sucessful in life and are making the sacrifices now. Those who are not making the real academic sacrifices now will pay the price in years to come with lower monetary available and a lesser lifestyle.

It goes without saying that those who booze their way heavily through college, seeing exams and class scheduling as a major inconvenience will not be the power brokers of tomorrow carry first class honours degree, unless enrolled in some p1ss easy and pointless arts degree like philosophy.

I drank with the best of them during college, out every Thursday and Saturday night when plenty of other random nights out too, always had mad rag weeks with all day drinking and never saw the inside of the library and only a very odd lecture in any of the rag weeks I was involved in. I'm still out more midweek most weeks and am out virtually every weekend.

I graduated with a 1st class honours Degree in Physics and am approximately a month and a half away from submitting my thesis for a PhD in Physics.

WallyGUFC

zarquon wrote: »

More sweeping generalization. I have highlighted your own convenient addition to my post above. What i said was a generalization not explicit fact. Those who have to immigrate are probably more likely to be lower acheiving. I say this based on the level of candidates whos CVs come across my desk regularly and get quickly discarded as well as the experience of my peers who had to immigrate and i know full well their academic acheivements.

Then there are some who immigrated simply because their field of research is better suited to other nations, for example i have a friend who is a researcher at Cern. I would not expect him to go looking for a collider in Ireland!

But then all you have to do is view the boozed up masses of Irish (working ar barmen, etc,) hitting the streets of Sydney and Melbourne and realise that some people never changed their lifestyle from their college days.




I would ask you to re-read my posts rather than explaining again! I blamed too much money for the chaos of Rag Week at the height of it's troubles and concurrently suggested that the year on year reduction in Rag Week problems is following a similar curve to the year on year decrease in disposable income available to some students (BUT NOT ALL!!!!!)

I'm sure most emigrants know the difference between immigration and emigration though.

So what you're saying is that you have no actual figures, stats, whatever to back up your assertion. That's grand. I'm not surprised. "Boozed up masses of Irish," "working as barmen."

Your last point, regarding the reduction in RAG Week problems etc. Was it not last year and the year before when things really came to a head regarding anti-social behaviour? Maybe I'm wrong, memory is a bit hazy. But if so, we were already in the midst of the recession. So for that reason I wouldn't agree.

zarquon

Edward Creamy Paw wrote: »

This is not true. The worst rag week troubles happened in the last 3 years. The height of the Celtic tiger was a good few years before that when I was an undergrad myself and to be honest there was a lot less complaints about rag week back then.




I drank with the best of them during college, out every Thursday and Saturday night when plenty of other random nights out too, always had mad rag weeks with all day drinking and never saw the inside of the library and only a very odd lecture in any of the rag weeks I was involved in. I'm still out more midweek most weeks and am out virtually every weekend.

I graduated with a 1st class honours Degree in Physics and am approximately a month and a half away from submitting my thesis for a PhD in Physics.

Well done to you, but that would be an exception rather than the rule. A good aptitude will allow for a more flexible approach to study but not everyone is blessed accordingly. Best of luck with your thesis and hope you don't miss the student life too much

WallyGUFC wrote: »

I'm sure most emigrants know the difference between immigration and emigration though.

So what you're saying is that you have no actual figures, stats, whatever to back up your assertion. That's grand. I'm not surprised. "Boozed up masses of Irish," "working as barmen."

Your last point, regarding the reduction in RAG Week problems etc. Was it not last year and the year before when things really came to a head regarding anti-social behaviour? Maybe I'm wrong, memory is a bit hazy. But if so, we were already in the midst of the recession. So for that reason I wouldn't agree.

Emigrants can often become immigrants, so that point is moot but it really is a facile argument to rebute a topic of debate with a post about grammer. Once an opponent reaches that level of debate the discussion is nearing it's conclusion!

Timmyctc

The pitch is going to be ruined soon with the amount of shifting the goalposts you're doing, Zarquon.
Maybe it is because a bunch of students and former students who were keen on the oul all day benders during RaG week posed a more articulate, sensible argument than herself

Maybe if you stopped spending so much time looking down condescendingly on your friends who chose to live their life different and now look forward to payday for a night out and perfected your arguing technique we wouldn't be here

Wally, out tomorrow?

zarquon

Timmyctc wrote: »

The pitch is going to be ruined soon with the amount of shifting the goalposts you're doing, Zarquon.
Maybe it is because a bunch of students and former students who were keen on the oul all day benders during RaG week posed a more articulate, sensible argument than herself

Maybe if you stopped spending so much time looking down condescendingly on your friends who chose to live their life different and now look forward to payday for a night out and perfected your arguing technique we wouldn't be here

Wally, out tomorrow?

Thank you for your intelligent contribution Thankfully i can have my nights out when i want and am not dicated to by paypay but each to their own i just assumed that most people do not like living hand to mouth. By all means though, continue to pretend that you revel in such a lifestyle if you want but i'll chose not to believe it which is my perogitive to do so.

BTW when you perfect your technique i'll engage with you further. There has been some sensible argument from the other side but looking back at your contributions to this thread - i'll leave that to the objective opinions of others to classify. Hmm, where is that pesky ignore function hidden - oh there it is. Happy days!

Timmyctc

zarquon wrote: »

Thank you for your intelligent contribution Thankfully i can have my nights out when i want and am not dicated to by paypay but each to their own i just assumed that most people do not like living hand to mouth but continue to pretend that you revel in such a lifestyle if you want.

I too can afford a night out at my choosing, however, unlike you I can do it with being condescending to those who can not. And you said it yourself. We are in the death vice of a recession. So what if people are living hand to mouth?

WallyGUFC

True. An emigrant from Ireland is an immigrant wherever they go, but I took it up that you used it in the wrong context, which I found ironic in a discussion which has seemingly shifted from RAG Week anti-social "chaos" to the educational capacity of people who leave Ireland to find work.

I think given that the week is over and has passed off without major incident it is indeed almost the end of the discussion. I am eagerly looking forward to next year, assuming I'm still here and haven't emigrated!

zarquon

Timmyctc wrote: »

I too can afford a night out at my choosing, however, unlike you I can do it with being condescending to those who can not. And you said it yourself. We are in the death vice of a recession. So what if people are living hand to mouth?

Please let it be clear that i am not heartless to that point. I have no issue with people living hand to mouth and it is sad to see for the most part. But those who are afflicted with such a life due to a poor academic record who wasted away their potential opportunities in life by partying a high level qualification down the toilet i have much less sympathey for rather than those who have just fallen on hard times through no fault of their own.

Brendan Flowers

zarquon wrote: »

Well done to you, but that would be an exception rather than the rule. A good aptitude will allow for a more flexible approach to study but not everyone is blessed accordingly. Best of luck with your thesis and hope you don't miss the student life too much

And what about the very valid point that Opal Rapping Succotash made about the rag week trouble being at its worst in the previous 3 years? You seemed to have missed that. During the celtic tiger era there was less trouble. Rag week even had the backing of NUIG. Just look at the Boards Rag week threads from 2013, 2012 and 2011 and you will see that they were considered the worst. And this was when the Country was well into the recession. Also in the past 8 months or so our economy has actually started to improve so your argument about the students having no money to go out is full of holes.

retro:electro

I miss zarquon

zarquon

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

And what about the very valid point that Opal Rapping Succotash made about the rag week trouble being at its worst in the previous 3 years? You seemed to have missed that. During the celtic tiger era there was less trouble. Rag week even had the backing of NUIG. Just look at the Boards Rag week threads from 2013, 2012 and 2011 and you will see that they were considered the worst. And this was when the Country was well into the recession. Also in the past 8 months or so our economy has actually started to improve so your argument about the students having no money to go out is full of holes.

It certainly was a valid point. I need to state that contrary to an earlier belief of yours i categorize the celtic cubs to be those born in the nineties who on average enjoyed a much higher standard of living than previous generations. Looking at what nox said this could accomodate anyone college going between 2007 and 2013 (assuming some people are on 4 year undergraduates beginning in 2007). Those born in the nineties would certainly fall into this period.

Whilst economic conditions may only account for some of the previous rag week troubles i do not think it coincidence that those who childhood encapsulated the celtic tiger era were ultimately responsible for the worst rag weeks on record as confirmed by Nox.

There are doubtless many other factors too, particulary when one looks at things like modern child psychologically where "every child is special" and every one wins. The type of psychologically that gives trophies to every child in a race despite their actual ability instilling a false sense of acheivement in Children which many psychologists are in disagreement about.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/face-it/201111/do-we-all-deserve-gold-setting-kids-fail

Regardless of the facts it is welcome if Rag Week anti-social behaviour diminishes or disappears. There would not be a problem if people drank responsibly as the various charters and campaigns request but there is or at least were a minority that lacked the maturity to drink responsibility which affects everyone concerned.

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

Also in the past 8 months or so our economy has actually started to improve so your argument about the students having no money to go out is full of holes.

Trickle down economics does not work that way. There is no instantaneous dissemination of wealth or change in living standard so from a macro economic perspective my argument is not "full of holes"!

MadYaker

Is that it until next year so? Grand.