Why don't we riot like mad ejits

fr336

Foxhound38 wrote: »

talking about how the Jews apparently secretly control the media etc.

To think in your terms, this isn't apparently or secretly anything - it's all out there and certainly not just on conspiracy sites..:p

DistanceVector

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Are you at the Dail with a bag full of Molotov Cocktails yet, or are you just referring to my complacent ar$e?

I take your point, I am a keyboard warrior.

But this keyboard warrior's head feels like its about to explode with the way this state is being run and each day it just descends deeper and deeper into the cesspit.

We deserve more as a people, and don't give me 'you get the govt you deserve' crap.

The whole game is rigged. We just swap one goon squad for another every few years.

I don't know whats to be done exactly .

I AM GOING TO JOIN A POLITICAL PARTY AND GET ACTIVE.

Most likely Sinn Fein.

I am in the process of moving to Cork but when I get there I am joining up.

I aint sayin they have all the answers or are any better, but I have to get out from behind this keyboard and talk to other like minded folks who want real progress towards a real, accountable Republic.

Enough corruption and old boys networks covering each other. Its a game to them and they laugh at us plebs.


What are you gonna do beside Snipe from the sidelines?

wicklowstevo

DistanceVector wrote: »

I take your point, I am a keyboard warrior.

But this keyboard warrior's head feels like its about to explode with the way this state is being run and each day it just descends deeper and deeper into the cesspit.

We deserve more as a people, and don't give me 'you get the govt you deserve' crap.

The whole game is rigged. We just swap one goon squad for another every few years.

I don't know whats to be done exactly .

I AM GOING TO JOIN A POLITICAL PARTY AND GET ACTIVE.

Most likely Sinn Fein.

I am in the process of moving to Cork but when I get there I am joining up.

I aint sayin they have all the answers or are any better, but I have to get out from behind this keyboard and talk to other like minded folks who want real progress towards a real, accountable Republic.

Enough corruption and old boys networks covering each other. Its a game to them and they laugh at us plebs.


What are you gonna do beside Snipe from the sidelines?

aaawww yes the party that protects murders and peados is better than the one that protects criminal bankers and developers. im afraid your options are more limited than you think. i just hope we dont all panic into electing what is basicly a criminal gang to government :(:(:(:(

the_syco

teR_ wrote: »

You turn on the news and ya see all these countries around us that were/are in the shlt, there all running around like lunatics breaking things and burning stuff.

Do you know what happens then? Everyone on social welfare gets no money, and people working find their jobs in jeopardy...!

renegademaster

Jonny7 wrote: »

lol..

Maybe posters calling others stupid and handing out insults shouldn't expect to not be challenged on their nonsense

that's right, prioritise holding a random internet poster to account for non-sensical post but leave the politicians and their ilk to do their job and if we're not satisfied in apr 2016 we can vote another corrupt shower into government safe in the knowledge that the irish people will do nothing even when shown blatent corruption

excellent plan, if i were corrupt and i seen the level of civil obedience going on round here i'd be quaking in my fcuking boots :rolleyes:

ps. i also loved that old chestnut "i'm going to protest against the protestors"

ffs that still cracks me up lol

renegademaster

DistanceVector wrote: »

I take your point, I am a keyboard warrior.

But this keyboard warrior's head feels like its about to explode with the way this state is being run and each day it just descends deeper and deeper into the cesspit.

We deserve more as a people, and don't give me 'you get the govt you deserve' crap.

The whole game is rigged. We just swap one goon squad for another every few years.

I don't know whats to be done exactly .

I AM GOING TO JOIN A POLITICAL PARTY AND GET ACTIVE.

Most likely Sinn Fein.

I am in the process of moving to Cork but when I get there I am joining up.

I aint sayin they have all the answers or are any better, but I have to get out from behind this keyboard and talk to other like minded folks who want real progress towards a real, accountable Republic.

Enough corruption and old boys networks covering each other. Its a game to them and they laugh at us plebs.


What are you gonna do beside Snipe from the sidelines?

we are where we are because while so many were busy organising protests, occupy etc the whole country seemed to be busy at the same time no matter what time or day each and every single protest was on.

believe me when i tell ya it broke my fcuking heart everytime there was a good reason to hit the streets only to be laughed and pointed at on marches or physically attacked during occupy.

i am still gobsmacked tbh

fr336

renegademaster wrote: »

that's right, prioritise holding a random internet poster to account for non-sensical post but leave the politicians and their ilk to do their job and if we're not satisfied in apr 2016 we can vote another corrupt shower into government safe in the knowledge that the irish people will do nothing even when shown blatent corruption

Haha so true!

renegademaster

fr336 wrote: »

Haha so true!

man if i had a euro for everytime i heard some non-sense excuse of a citizen tryin to make a point while exposing themselves to be in a deep sleep i'd be a fcuking tax exile

languagenerd

This thread has gone rather off topic now. Do I want to see Ireland's economy back on track? Yes, of course. Do I want to see those corrupt bankers and politicians who helped bring the country to its knees held to account? Yes. Do I want Germany to run Europe? Of course not. But do I think riots will achieve anything to help the previous three situations? No, I don't.

Imagine there were riots in our city centres. Imagine buildings were burnt and smashed and whatever else you think riots should entail. The consequences of that are:
(1) Some people injured or even killed. Lives torn apart. Pressure on the already under-funded emergency services.
(2) The government, already looking at a huge bill for the floods this year, have to figure out how to fund all the repairs. Taxes may increase.
(3) Businesses see their premises and stock destroyed. Some of these are already pushed to the edge by recession: they can't afford to rebuild. Their workforce must go on the dole, costing the government a lot of money, plus lost income tax.
(4) Anyone who's lost their job now doesn't buy lunches in town, or use public transport as often, or go to the shops near their jobs after work. Other local businesses lose out. Further potential job losses and increased social welfare bills. People can't afford any non-essential items, so businesses all over the country lose out.
(5) People lose confidence in the city centre - what if another riot breaks out? They go to shopping centres or travel to another town instead. More shops lose business, further job losses. (This happened to a certain degree in Belfast last Christmas with all the flag trouble)
(6) Tourists see images of Irish riots on the news. They decide it's not safe to come here and choose a different destination. More lost business, more job losses, less money to the exchequer.

And all to achieve... what? To let the government know we're unhappy? There are other ways of doing this, ways that don't involve shooting ourselves in the foot and destroying our own cities.

Knob Longman

renegademaster wrote: »

we are where we are because while so many were busy organising protests, occupy etc the whole country seemed to be busy at the same time no matter what time or day each and every single protest was on.

believe me when i tell ya it broke my fcuking heart everytime there was a good reason to hit the streets only to be laughed and pointed at on marches or physically attacked during occupy.

i am still gobsmacked tbh

Snobbishness towards protests, Typical of the place, There is an old saying "You can't argue with a fool" which is fairly apt regarding Ireland..

fr336

Knob Longman wrote: »

Snobbishness towards protests, Typical of the place, There is an old saying "You can't argue with a fool" which is fairly apt regarding Ireland..

Nah you can definitely class England as being the same as Ireland for the most part - extremely compliant bunch of good little lads and lasses here these days.

Jester252

Oh no not another "I'm better than you because I protested" threads.

KyussBishop

SpaceTime wrote: »

Having spoken to a lot of German academics over the years, I think they've actually got a rather high-handed and somewhat patronising notion that they can spread the German economic model to the less stable countries of Europe.

They see their model as having been a roaring success and can't see why everyone else doesn't just do exactly the same. Then ignore the fact that the rest of Europe doesn't have the same level of dependence on industrial exports and high-tech exports and could be depending on totally different economic areas - financial services & attracting FDI : (UK, Benelux and Ireland), tourism (many Med countries), agribusiness (France in a big way) etc.

I'm not so sure that it's all that macabre, they just think they're right and that everyone else is doing it wrong!

I honestly don't think it's all that much about self-serving self-interest and more about just oversimplification and not understanding how European economies actually work.

Yes, I'd actually agree with you 100% here, but what this misguidedness says is: Germany (and all the countries with similarly misguided economists, i.e. pretty much all countries) share the burden of blame for this entire crisis, regardless of whether or not some countries financial sectors, were more profligate than others (and they were all profligate, in every country), because they let terrible economists run the show.


I agree that most (nearly all) economists (in Germany or otherwise) really do believe they are doing the right thing and taking the optimal path.
I don't believe this is down to Germany though, it has actually occurred throughout nearly all economic thought in academia, going back to the last Great Depression (and significantly worsening since the late-70's/early-80's) - economic academia is pretty much intellectually 'captured', by neoliberal/neoclassical economics, and other economists which don't fit within that mainstream, are marginalized.

So I agree, most of the economists/politicans believe what they are doing is right, because they base their knowledge on 'the only game in town' (or well, by far the most dominant one anyway), i.e. neoclassical economics - however:
Look at past historical precedent, and what the US used neoliberalism to do to South-East Asia, and South America (particularly Chile) - this is not well-intentioned economic policy, miscalculatingly causing harm, it's the effect of ideological capture (with neoclassical/neoliberal economics) of economic academia, and how that has corrupted world politics - and the US have used that to gain significant political control over countries, through their economics.

What does that say about now, that precisely the same policies used to cripple the countries affected by the above, are being used on us now?

A lot of economists/politicians/people have taken this economic ideology at face value, but what does it say about just how innocent it is, when it has been used to destroy countries economies, gain political control over them, strip their assets, and disempower their citizens (eroding/removing democracy essentially).

KyussBishop

DistanceVector wrote: »

...
I don't know whats to be done exactly .

I AM GOING TO JOIN A POLITICAL PARTY AND GET ACTIVE.

Most likely Sinn Fein.
...

Why Sinn Fein? I would never want to be associated with that party, due to the deep doubts (putting it mildly) over the credibility of people in their leadership (don't see how they could ever be looked on favourably in that regard, even when compared to FF/FG).

I'm not hugely knowledgeable about the history of SF or NI in general, but I don't think it would be a good thing for this country at all, if SF ever got into power.

KyussBishop

languagenerd wrote: »

This thread has gone rather off topic now. Do I want to see Ireland's economy back on track? Yes, of course. Do I want to see those corrupt bankers and politicians who helped bring the country to its knees held to account? Yes. Do I want Germany to run Europe? Of course not. But do I think riots will achieve anything to help the previous three situations? No, I don't.

Imagine there were riots in our city centres. Imagine buildings were burnt and smashed and whatever else you think riots should entail. The consequences of that are:
(1) Some people injured or even killed. Lives torn apart. Pressure on the already under-funded emergency services.
(2) The government, already looking at a huge bill for the floods this year, have to figure out how to fund all the repairs. Taxes may increase.
(3) Businesses see their premises and stock destroyed. Some of these are already pushed to the edge by recession: they can't afford to rebuild. Their workforce must go on the dole, costing the government a lot of money, plus lost income tax.
(4) Anyone who's lost their job now doesn't buy lunches in town, or use public transport as often, or go to the shops near their jobs after work. Other local businesses lose out. Further potential job losses and increased social welfare bills. People can't afford any non-essential items, so businesses all over the country lose out.
(5) People lose confidence in the city centre - what if another riot breaks out? They go to shopping centres or travel to another town instead. More shops lose business, further job losses. (This happened to a certain degree in Belfast last Christmas with all the flag trouble)
(6) Tourists see images of Irish riots on the news. They decide it's not safe to come here and choose a different destination. More lost business, more job losses, less money to the exchequer.

And all to achieve... what? To let the government know we're unhappy? There are other ways of doing this, ways that don't involve shooting ourselves in the foot and destroying our own cities.

See the problem with this thread, is that it's almost as if its express purpose has been to get people to talk about rioting, as a means of disparaging protesting and political action with that as a straw-man; a discussion of actual protesting is worth having, but one which focuses on rioting is only ever going to be a complete waste of time.

BrensBenz

Well, who would end up paying for the stuff that us mad eejits break and burn?

As for the guvverment, when you see an eejit in a job for which he isn't suited, you need to ask "who put him there?"

WE DID! WE elected them (or allowed them to be elected), often on the basis of "his farder got the road fixed (or suchlike) and me farder always voted for him so I'll vote for his son". Brilliant!

And who appointed and monitored the Financial Regulator? The eejits that WE sent to the Dail.

And who ignored the warnings from international, economics gurus? The eejits that WE sent to the Dail.

Admittedly, this is a simplistic view but not quite as simplistic as "everybody's wrong except me". Sorry lads, but the real cause of our woes is much closer to home.

Eight Ball

The people who don't protest are cowards and have zero right to complain about "bankers and dodgy politicians" etc... You get the government you deserve.

Hedge11

Eight Ball wrote: »

The people who don't protest are cowards

Cowards? What's the worst that could happen to you on protest? Someone see you on the news & take the piss?

Most people just think protesting is a waste of time.

Jonny7

Eight Ball wrote: »

The people who don't protest are cowards and have zero right to complain about "bankers and dodgy politicians" etc... You get the government you deserve.

Can you name these bankers and politicians and list the crimes they have committed/evidence of the corruption

Once you have that, then you have something solid and tangible - it would be a good first step towards a protest group that wants to be taken seriously


As an analogy in the workplace..

e.g. generally there are two types of people in a job - those who complain, whinge and blame management for issues.. and those who want to coordinate and proactively address the issue with the goal of solving it

Many employers know this and therefore often set up systems which benefit and encourage the latter over the former

Eight Ball

Jonny7 wrote: »

Can you name these bankers and politicians and list the crimes they have committed/evidence of the corruption

Once you have that, then you have something solid and tangible - it would be a good first step towards a protest group that wants to be taken seriously


As an analogy in the workplace..

e.g. generally there are two types of people in a job - those who complain, whinge and blame management for issues.. and those who want to coordinate and proactively address the issue with the goal of solving it

Many employers know this and therefore often set up systems which benefit and encourage the latter over the former

You actually think evidence will come into the public eye over political or banker corruption? This is Ireland pal. Might happen in a functioning democracy but the establishment just circle the wagons here.

Jester252

Eight Ball wrote: »

You actually think evidence will come into the public eye over political or banker corruption? This is Ireland pal. Might happen in a functioning democracy but the establishment just circle the wagons here.

nice cop out

Valetta

Eight Ball wrote: »

You actually think evidence will come into the public eye over political or banker corruption? This is Ireland pal. Might happen in a functioning democracy but the establishment just circle the wagons here.

How do you know there is evidence?

And if you do know, then you can bring it into the public eye.

There is absolutely nothing stopping you.

I am pie

To protest, we need a reason beyond disagreeing with how the government run the country. Unfortunately Occupy and co don't like the results of recent elections. I imagine it is indeed disappointing for them to discover that people don't identify with their simplistic world view. It must be even more annoying for them that the apocalypse hasn't come to pass.

Simply put social injustice and economic hardship does not exist on a sufficient scale to create the need for urgent change in government. Thats the litmus test which would have people on the street.

Ireland provides a standard of living and opportunity comfortably within the top 30 countries in the world. It's only a lack of international context or ideologically motivated daydreaming which makes peoples think taking to the streets is necessary.

Jester252

Valetta wrote: »

How do you know there is evidence?

And if you do know, then you can bring it into the public eye.

There is absolutely nothing stopping you.

The man is stopping or some b/s

DistanceVector

To all y'all asking me about SF.

They are the only party outside of the technical group who ask what needs to be asked down here.

Yes, Adams is a Problem. He needs to go. Not admitting IRA stuff is a joke.

I like the cut of MLMD and PD. They seem clean.

Maybe I wont join SF, but I will look into what ever Indo's are around to. SF really need to ditch the past, the brother thing etc is sick.

BUT, I have been warming to them lately. Some very good , young, clean (I hope) characters coming up.

I would like to see a united Ireland also, not one more drop of blood for it tho and it is quite low on the list of things Id like to see done.

The problem is a sever lack of credible alternatives.

The point is to get off my backside and off these websites.


Christ you mention SF in Ireland and you get instantly attacked. That tells me that are doing something right.

renegademaster

Eight Ball wrote: »

You actually think evidence will come into the public eye over political or banker corruption? This is Ireland pal. Might happen in a functioning democracy but the establishment just circle the wagons here.

The anglo tapes, Chelsea Manning, Wikileaks, and a few others have exposed massive corruption in Ireland and where were the people of Ireland then??

we're drowning in evidence of blatent of corruption everywhere ya look in this country but then mass stockholm syndrome and denial happen kicks in each and everytime something new gets exposed, somtimes on a weekly basis, it's crazy!!

DistanceVector

RE: OP

Riot is the wrong word to use. Mass peaceful demos are whats needed, people power. No violence.

That would actually gain us some respect around the world.

renegademaster

I am pie wrote: »

To protest, we need a reason beyond disagreeing with how the government run the country. Unfortunately Occupy and co don't like the results of recent elections. I imagine it is indeed disappointing for them to discover that people don't identify with their simplistic world view. It must be even more annoying for them that the apocalypse hasn't come to pass.

Simply put social injustice and economic hardship does not exist on a sufficient scale to create the need for urgent change in government. Thats the litmus test which would have people on the street.

Ireland provides a standard of living and opportunity comfortably within the top 30 countries in the world. It's only a lack of international context or ideologically motivated daydreaming which makes peoples think taking to the streets is necessary.

the majority in this country have demonstrated many times over the last few years they don't care enough to hit the streets no matter who's called the protests, plenty of people supported the occupy movement, i should know cos i spoke with lots of them personally for well over 250 days in the Galway camp, it was not our fault that the majority (including those knowledgable in the areas needing tackling) weren't ready to come in and if the public were there to help we could have all gotten together and put real plans together as to how to change things, instead it was left to the handfuls of people in the camps to try do something they've never done before with very limited help, well wishes, donations and offers of advice from the general public who for the most part were as inexperienced in changing the system here as we were.

I can say with confidence that there's no occupier annoyed the apocalypse didn't come as you put it but we do have hindsight on our side which has proven a lot of what we were trying to point out has been proven to be fact and still no sign of the majority caring enough to do anything about it collectively other than going about their normal day.

the longer the majority go about their normal day and keep the charade on the road the more you enable the corrupt.

Jonny7

renegademaster wrote: »

The anglo tapes, Chelsea Manning, Wikileaks, and a few others have exposed massive corruption in Ireland and where were the people of Ireland then??

we're drowning in evidence of blatent of corruption everywhere ya look in this country but then mass stockholm syndrome and denial happen kicks in each and everytime something new gets exposed, somtimes on a weekly basis, it's crazy!!

A list of names and associated crimes (laws broken)

Proper legal procedure will need to be followed

If there's more than enough evidence to bring to a court then the first part should be easy

KyussBishop

Jonny7 wrote: »

Can you name these bankers and politicians and list the crimes they have committed/evidence of the corruption

Once you have that, then you have something solid and tangible - it would be a good first step towards a protest group that wants to be taken seriously

This is basically a demand for courtroom-level evidence, before anyone can go protesting - which is self-contradictory because that'd remove the need for protesting in the first place.

There are barely any adequate investigations into fraud, and barely any efforts at implementing necessary reforms of regulations, to prevent a future crisis - and not even proper investigation into fraud that people have tried to blow the whistle about, in the current crisis (like from Jonathan Sugarman - a whistleblower who was implicitly threatened with him being referred to the Gardai by the central-bank/financial-regulators, if he exposed wrongdoing to them).

That gets awfully close to the "if you can't prove it, it didn't happen" or "nothing to see here, move along" argument; if there were actually investigations into corruption/fraud, and actual unveiling of evidence that would go through a courtroom, there'd be nothing to protest about - so it's little more than a self-contradictory rhetorical attack, on protests in general.


That - a rhetorical attack on protests in general - seems to be the entire point of this thread, hence it starting off with the straw-man of conflating protesting with rioting, so that posters can disparage protesting because of the negative effects of rioting (which almost nobody argues in favour of).

KyussBishop

DistanceVector wrote: »

To all y'all asking me about SF.

They are the only party outside of the technical group who ask what needs to be asked down here.

Yes, Adams is a Problem. He needs to go. Not admitting IRA stuff is a joke.

I like the cut of MLMD and PD. They seem clean.

Maybe I wont join SF, but I will look into what ever Indo's are around to. SF really need to ditch the past, the brother thing etc is sick.

BUT, I have been warming to them lately. Some very good , young, clean (I hope) characters coming up.

I would like to see a united Ireland also, not one more drop of blood for it tho and it is quite low on the list of things Id like to see done.

The problem is a sever lack of credible alternatives.

The point is to get off my backside and off these websites.


Christ you mention SF in Ireland and you get instantly attacked. That tells me that are doing something right.

The problem with almost all well established opposition groups, is that they will say all the correct/dreamy/populist things before an election, but once they get into power they pretty much never keep their word, so it really doesn't matter what they say.

I can't see Sinn Fein ever having enough credibility, to be given even the tiniest benefit of the doubt in that regard - they deserve maximum possible cynicism really.

DistanceVector

KyussBishop wrote: »

The problem with almost all well established opposition groups, is that they will say all the correct/dreamy/populist things before an election, but once they get into power they pretty much never keep their word, so it really doesn't matter what they say.

I can't see Sinn Fein ever having enough credibility, to be given even the tiniest benefit of the doubt in that regard - they deserve maximum possible cynicism really.

True. This is exactly what LAB did last time round, look at them now.

I await to be dissapointed yet again if/when SF get in.

A change away from FF/FG dominance would be nice, even if its just to get away from Civil War tribal cr@p.

Back OT, maybe if we protested a bit louder to ALL these guys they may sharpen up their game, but the is Ireland....

SPS1

DistanceVector wrote: »

RE: OP

Riot is the wrong word to use. Mass peaceful demos are whats needed, people power. No violence.

That would actually gain us some respect around the world.

Boycotting industries so they lose profit or violent protest, are the only forms of effective protest. Eg salt match, the bus boycott in the south, black panthers, Vietcong guerillas, suffragette marches, stonewall riots.

You don't convince a higher power who is abusing their power, to change by sitting around with placards asking them.

Valetta

SPS1 wrote: »

Boycotting industries so they lose profit or violent protest, are the only forms of effective protest. Eg salt match, the bus boycott in the south, black panthers, Vietcong guerillas, suffragette marches, stonewall riots.

You don't convince a higher power who is abusing their power, to change by sitting around with placards asking them.

Also known as shooting yourself in the foot.... Biting the hand that feeds you....

Take your pick.

SPS1

Valetta wrote: »

Also known as shooting yourself in the foot.... Biting the hand that feeds you....

Take your pick.

I love the bit where you completely disregarded the effect & success these types of protesting, had on key events on the 20th century.

renegademaster

Valetta wrote: »

Also known as shooting yourself in the foot.... Biting the hand that feeds you....

Take your pick.

that hand that feeds us? sure normal joe soaps physically work to actually produce prodcts, someone else delivers them to the shops, joe bloggs stocks the shelf, someone else charges us and when if there's some left over we throw it in the bin and the kind binman takes it to be recycled or buried,

now tell me where is this hand that feeds us?

KyussBishop

SPS1 wrote: »

Boycotting industries so they lose profit or violent protest, are the only forms of effective protest. Eg salt match, the bus boycott in the south, black panthers, Vietcong guerillas, suffragette marches, stonewall riots.

You don't convince a higher power who is abusing their power, to change by sitting around with placards asking them.

Yes I suppose Martin Luther King never achieved anything, with his dedication to non-violent protest - completely ineffective, right?

You don't put together protest movements in order to make people in power listen - if you're getting to the point of protesting, they already aren't going to listen - you put protest movements together to help educate people and galvanize public opinion, and to develop political alternatives - i.e. new politicians and influencing the influencable current politicians, to build up political pressure.

People who go to protests, in order to turn them violent, are idiots who will only risk discrediting the wider protest in the eyes of the public, driving people away from protesting - if you want to guarantee a tiny protest movement, which drives people away from it, then use violence.


We're absolutely nowhere near the level, where things are so bad, that violence is in any way justifiable - even Mandela in apartheid South Africa held it as a last resort, after all other avenues were exhausted.

Potatoeman

I know many people didnt protest because of the generic ideas being put forward. Anti-austerity marches organised by the public service were about protecting their pay and would not benefit the average worker and didnt answer where the money we needed came from. Why would someone protest for something that if brought in would mean more taxes on them?

People also seem angry and ill informed. They complain about bankers while ignoring the regulators role in creating the whole mess. There is no point having regulations if you dont enforce them.

KyussBishop

Valetta wrote: »

Also known as shooting yourself in the foot.... Biting the hand that feeds you....

Take your pick.

Heh - funny that just as I was reading this, was listening to The Hand That Feeds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwhBRJStz7w

So you think we should have blind deference to authority, if that what's supposed to be 'the hand that feeds', yes?

Friend Computer

renegademaster wrote: »

that hand that feeds us? sure normal joe soaps physically work to actually produce prodcts, someone else delivers them to the shops, joe bloggs stocks the shelf, someone else charges us and when if there's some left over we throw it in the bin and the kind binman takes it to be recycled or buried,

now tell me where is this hand that feeds us?

Do you drive on roads, use telephones, have running water in your home, access to medical care, police, courts, etc.?

Colash

The government would talk us into stopping the riot after around 20 minutes !!!!!

Jonny7

KyussBishop wrote: »

There are barely any adequate investigations into fraud,

What fraud, who?

reforms of regulations, to prevent a future crisis

What regulations are needed precisely?

That gets awfully close to the "if you can't prove it, it didn't happen" or "nothing to see here, move along" argument; if there were actually investigations into corruption/fraud, and actual unveiling of evidence that would go through a courtroom, there'd be nothing to protest about - so it's little more than a self-contradictory rhetorical attack, on protests in general.

What fraud needs to be investigated? If you believe it's happened then you are basing that on facts obviously

provide and log the facts and it can be addressed properly

That - a rhetorical attack on protests in general - seems to be the entire point of this thread, hence it starting off with the straw-man of conflating protesting with rioting, so that posters can disparage protesting because of the negative effects of rioting (which almost nobody argues in favour of).

The admin we see culpable or at least accountable has been voted out

If you were to set up a protest movement, what would be it's aim?

If it's to punish crime/fraud - then protest not needed so much as legal

If it's an increase in financial regulation, which regulation exactly?

I have no prob with protests

However there is a prob with people who label the nation as stupid and lazy but couldnt be bothered to form their own protest movement or even be bothered to collect basic facts, just lazily label gov/banks as "evil/corrupt"

KyussBishop

Potatoeman wrote: »

I know many people didnt protest because of the generic ideas being put forward. Anti-austerity marches organised by the public service were about protecting their pay and would not benefit the average worker and didnt answer where the money we needed came from. Why would someone protest for something that if brought in would mean more taxes on them?

People also seem angry and ill informed. They complain about bankers while ignoring the regulators role in creating the whole mess. There is no point having regulations if you dont enforce them.

The central bank and regulators, are made up of ex-banking/finance industry people, and the banking/finance industry, has so much control over money that they have extreme political influence that they can use to avoid being regulated.

It's not the fault solely of just one of banking/finance/government, it's the fault of the class of people who inhabit all of those industries in powerful positions, to the point that they can put themselves either beyond the law, or rewrite/hold-back laws/reforms, in their favour.

It's a problem that's not limited to any one location, but is a problem consisting of a whole class of (first and most important of all) powerful and corrupt (legally/ethically) people, or powerful people who are happy to remain within and protect an ethically corrupt system (ethically corrupt due to inadequate regulations, enforcement of regulations or reform of regulations - among many other reasons).

Jonny7

KyussBishop wrote: »

The central bank and regulators, are made up of ex-banking/finance industry people, and the banking/finance industry, has so much control over money that they have extreme political influence that they can use to avoid being regulated.

It's not the fault solely of just one of banking/finance/government, it's the fault of the class of people who inhabit all of those industries in powerful positions, to the point that they can put themselves either beyond the law, or rewrite/hold-back laws/reforms, in their favour.

It's a problem that's not limited to any one location, but is a problem consisting of a whole class of (first and most important of all) powerful and corrupt (legally/ethically) people, or powerful people who are happy to remain within and protect an ethically corrupt system (ethically corrupt due to inadequate regulations, enforcement of regulations or reform of regulations - among many other reasons).

This appears to be your own personal view of people in power

Specifically speaking what post-crisis regulations do you disagree with and what regulations would you introduce that will not cost thousands of jobs, stunt growth or cause the exit of banking business and clients from the country?

Grayson

kult wrote: »

you are like a politician, compare ireland to poorer countries or worse situations... that's so low, maybe compare to richer countries with higher standard of living, irish people deserve more... if you do not stand up now, some time you will wake up living for 10 dollars a day, but you will still say some people are living on 5 dollars a day....they are taking freedom and bringing economy down slowly...

http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/human_development.htm

We are in one of the safest places on the planet. Our life expectancy is nearly the best in the world. Our education is great. the number of people in poverty is tiny.
We can improve, we're not the best and even the best are not perfect, but we are living in what would be considered a paradise by most of the rest of the world.

We whinge and complain, but I think because things are actually pretty good here, we wouldn't actually riot.

renegademaster

Potatoeman wrote: »

I know many people didnt protest because of the generic ideas being put forward. Anti-austerity marches organised by the public service were about protecting their pay and would not benefit the average worker and didnt answer where the money we needed came from. Why would someone protest for something that if brought in would mean more taxes on them?

People also seem angry and ill informed. They complain about bankers while ignoring the regulators role in creating the whole mess. There is no point having regulations if you dont enforce them.

and whay would the regulator or government enforce regulation that holds their wealth creation back if we don't give a $hit,

we are the guage that the corrupt work around, we give no real resistence to corruption, only breakign down every call to protest and then doing nothing has led us to where we are today!!

renegademaster

Colash wrote: »

The government would talk us into stopping the riot after around 20 minutes !!!!!

they would but not all of us would listen!!

renegademaster

Friend Computer wrote: »

Do you drive on roads, use telephones, have running water in your home, access to medical care, police, courts, etc.?

road tax here is a joke and should be built into the petrol pumps, the phones are all being spied upon by GCHQ, water quality is crap and we're now expected to pay to be poisoned, galway a&e is now the worst in the country, gardas hands are tied, our recourse to complain about the garda has now being comprimised, courts are corrupt...

KyussBishop

Jonny7 wrote: »

KyussBishop wrote:

There are barely any adequate investigations into fraud,

What fraud, who?

KyussBishop wrote:

reforms of regulations, to prevent a future crisis

What regulations are needed precisely?

What fraud needs to be investigated? If you believe it's happened then you are basing that on facts obviously

provide and log the facts and it can be addressed properly

The admin we see culpable or at least accountable has been voted out

If you were to set up a protest movement, what would be it's aim?

If it's to punish crime/fraud - then protest not needed so much as legal

If it's an increase in financial regulation, which regulation exactly?

I have no prob with protests

However there is a prob with people who label the nation as stupid and lazy but couldnt be bothered to form their own protest movement or even be bothered to collect basic facts, just lazily label gov/banks as "evil/corrupt"

You pretty much deliberately cut up the first sentence you quote from me, to remove the bolded part below that already addresses most of your demands for answers - which shows you have dishonest intent, and that your questions are almost purely for rhetorical effect:

KyussBishop wrote:

There are barely any adequate investigations into fraud, and barely any efforts at implementing necessary reforms of regulations, to prevent a future crisis - and not even proper investigation into fraud that people have tried to blow the whistle about, in the current crisis (like from Jonathan Sugarman - a whistleblower who was implicitly threatened with him being referred to the Gardai by the central-bank/financial-regulators, if he exposed wrongdoing to them).

The argument in your post as well, pretty much reduces down to "If there is no evidence, it didn't happen - nothing to see here" - which is exactly the argument that the post your replying to addresses, meaning you've pretty much willingly ignored my entire post, in order to put forward a rhetorical attack - this kind of rhetorical argument, you see from someone making demanding questions, to setup up a platform where they steadfastly remain 'unconvinced' of everything said - and I'm not here to try and convince people, who both selectively ignore my posts, and display dishonest intent in doing that.

And don't bother complaining about not getting answers, when 1: you already have an answer to most questions in the post you selectively ignored, and 2: when you shouldn't bother expecting anyone to answer you when you display such bad intent.
What that then becomes, is a platform to try and pan a user for not answering questions (even when they have), to try and distract from them pointing out your dishonest methods of argument - which I'll be keeping an eye on and will dissect in detail.

Sir Arthur Daley

I keep misreading the title and keep seeing, Why don't we ride like mad ejits?