Recall Sepa Direct Debit

downwithit

Hi,

Can I recall a SEPA direct debit charged by a service provider in error. I.e. I cancel a service and the provider continues to take payments?

Bank of Ireland: Alison

[font=Verdana, sans-serif]Hi downwithit [/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif]Thank you for contacting us today.[/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif]Yes, you can request a refund by completing the necessary form which you will find here [/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif]You will need to download this form and send the form to address provided on it.[/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif]It is also possible to cancel this SEPA Direct Debit to prevent the company debiting again by logging into your Bank of Ireland 365 account online and select 'Manage Accounts' from the left hand side of the Homepage and select 'SEPA Direct Debit Services'.[/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif]We also have a dedicated SEPA Direct Debit information link here you may find useful.[/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif]I hope this helps, if you do have further queries, please post again. We're happy to help.[/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif]Thanks[/font]

[font=Verdana, sans-serif]Alison[/font]

dub45

Do BOI charge any fees for this?

Bank of Ireland: Alison

Hi dub45

Thank you for your post.

No, Bank of Ireland will not charge you to recall a SEPA Direct Debit.

If you have any further queries please ask. 

Thanks
Alison

dub45

Bank of Ireland: Alison wrote: »

Hi dub45

Thank you for your post.

No, Bank of Ireland will not charge you to recall a SEPA Direct Debit.

If you have any further queries please ask. 

Thanks
Alison

Thank you for the prompt reply.  The reason I asked is that at least one company - UPC - are charging an administration fee of 50 euros when a customer exercises their right in this regard and presumably others will follow suit in this regard if they haven't already.

Could I ask you if under SEPA it will still be possible for a company to reinstate and present a direct debit which has been cancelled by the customer.
(As I understand it this can quite easily be done in the present system by altering a number)

Bank of Ireland: Sean

dub45 wrote: »

Bank of Ireland: Alison wrote: »

Hi dub45

Thank you for your post.

No, Bank of Ireland will not charge you to recall a SEPA Direct Debit.

If you have any further queries please ask. 

Thanks
Alison

Thank you for the prompt reply.  The reason I asked is that at least one company - UPC - are charging an administration fee of 50 euros when a customer exercises their right in this regard and presumably others will follow suit in this regard if they haven't already.

Could I ask you if under SEPA it will still be possible for a company to reinstate and present a direct debit which has been cancelled by the customer.
(As I understand it this can quite easily be done in the present system by altering a number)

Hi dub45,

We sent this query off to our SEPA team and this is the response they've come back with.

If you have cancelled your SEPA Direct Debit mandate with a creditor(the company you are paying), under SEPA they cannot collect any further direct debits from that specific mandate.  You can also cancel SEPA Direct Debits using the 'Online Service Desk' option on BOI 365 online.  For further information on SEPA Direct Debits please see here.

SEPA has also introduced a 'Black List' option.  Setting up a 'Creditor Black List' means that you want to specify the Creditor/s from whom you will reject all direct debits.  For more information on this option, visit the link above also.


Hope this helps.

Many thanks

Seán

dub45

Bank of Ireland: Sean wrote: »

dub45 wrote: »

Bank of Ireland: Alison wrote: »

Hi dub45

Thank you for your post.

No, Bank of Ireland will not charge you to recall a SEPA Direct Debit.

If you have any further queries please ask. 

Thanks
Alison

Thank you for the prompt reply.  The reason I asked is that at least one company - UPC - are charging an administration fee of 50 euros when a customer exercises their right in this regard and presumably others will follow suit in this regard if they haven't already.

Could I ask you if under SEPA it will still be possible for a company to reinstate and present a direct debit which has been cancelled by the customer.
(As I understand it this can quite easily be done in the present system by altering a number)

Hi dub45,

We sent this query off to our SEPA team and this is the response they've come back with.

If you have cancelled your SEPA Direct Debit mandate with a creditor(the company you are paying), under SEPA they cannot collect any further direct debits from that specific mandate.  You can also cancel SEPA Direct Debits using the 'Online Service Desk' option on BOI 365 online.  For further information on SEPA Direct Debits please see here.

SEPA has also introduced a 'Black List' option.  Setting up a 'Creditor Black List' means that you want to specify the Creditor/s from whom you will reject all direct debits.  For more information on this option, visit the link above also.


Hope this helps.

Many thanks

Seán

Thank you for your reply however I am not sure if you have answered my specific question.  You state " under SEPA they cannot collect any further direct debits from that specific mandate."  There is a similar rule in the current scheme which states that a dd may be cancelled at any time but unfortunately it is impossible to ensure that dd stays cancelled as it is possible for a company to reinstate a dd simply by changing a number.  This happens regularly in spite of the rules of the scheme.  What I am asking is - not the rules of SEPA but the practical day to day reality for the account holder.  Is it possible in practise  for a company to reinstate a dd under SEPA as it is under the current scheme?


It is unfortunate that the "improvements" introduced under SEPA appear to be defensive in that they require the account older to go to the bother of taking preventative action against the misbehaviour of companies rather than bringing any improvement in the enforcement of the rules for Creditors.  There appears no more likelihood of the dd scheme rules being enforced under SEPA than they are under the current system.

Tow

dub45 wrote: »

 Is it possible in practise  from a company to reinstate a dd under SEPA as it is under the current scheme?[/color]

Yes, Under SEPA (while it is against the rules) the company just has to change the Unique Mandate Reference / Mandate ID on the debit and send the debit in as a First Time debit.

One of the features of SEPA is that First Time debits have to be sent into the bank 6 working days before it is to be taken. This is to give time for the bank to notify you (SMS, email or letter etc) of the pending debit and for you to bounce it, before you are actually debited. Unfortunately, BOI has not implemented any method of doing this.

Bank of Ireland: Tara

Hi Dub45,

We're sorry you feel we didn't answer your question. If you have a company added to the Black List, as mentioned in Seán's post, they will be unable to set up another direct debit or collect payments from your account. 

Thanks
Tara

dub45

Tow wrote: »

dub45 wrote: »

 Is it possible in practise  from a company to reinstate a dd under SEPA as it is under the current scheme?[/color]

Yes, Under SEPA (while it is against the rules) the company just has to change the Unique Mandate Reference / Mandate ID on the debit and send the debit in as a First Time debit.

One of the features of SEPA is that First Time debits have to be sent into the bank 6 working days before it is to be taken. This is to give time for the bank to notify you (SMS, email or letter etc) of the pending debit and for you to bounce it, before you are actually debited. Unfortunately, BOI has not implemented any method of doing this.

I am baffled that this weakness in the dd system has been allowed to persist for so long.  When a customer cancels a dd they explicitly withdraw authority from the company concerned to access their account.  Any company subsequently modifying a dd and accessing a persons account is surely acting illegally?   

Yet on discovery of this action there appears to be no obligation on the bank to report this highly dubious action to anyone and there are never any consequences for the company concerned not to mention the bank's failure to protect the integrity of the customers account.

dub45

Bank of Ireland: Tara wrote: »

Hi Dub45,

We're sorry you feel we didn't answer your question. If you have a company added to the Black List, as mentioned in Seán's post, they will be unable to set up another direct debit or collect payments from your account. 

Thanks
Tara

Well its not about what I feel the fact is that you did not answer my question:)

My point is that if a customer cancels a direct debit they should be able to be assured that the dd stays cancelled and they (the customer) should not have to take further action. 

The existence of what are effectively further defense mechanisms which require additional action by the customer are a reflection of the fact that companies cannot be trusted to follow the rules of the scheme and that the rules of the scheme are not enforced sufficiently to dissuade companies from acting in a highly dubious manner.  The resubmission of a cancelled dd should have very serious consequences for any company which does it - there are absolutely none.

When a branch discovers that a company has tried to reinstate a cancelled direct debit what action are they supposed to take? Surely such an action on the part of a company is very serious?

Bank of Ireland: Alison

Hi dub45
 
The information provided by Sean is as much information we have in relation to your queries.
 
Just to mention, a Direct Debit is an agreement with you and the company and the bank facilitates with the payments debiting your account.
 
Customers can decide to move back to a company after cancelling their initial mandate.  We would never prevent a company setting up a new mandate, unless the customer has added this company to the ‘Black List’ as mentioned previously. With the SEPA Direct Debit Scheme customers now have extended rights and services available to them.
 
You can find extensive information on this process here
 
Thanks

Alison

Tow

Bank of Ireland: Alison wrote: »

You can find extensive information on this process here

Hi Alison,

When are BOI going to automate via all the manual forms in your above link and implement the advance warning of any new First time SEPA debits?

Bank of Ireland: Sean

Tow wrote: »

Bank of Ireland: Alison wrote: »

You can find extensive information on this process here

Hi Alison,

When are BOI going to automate via all the manual forms in your above link and implement the advance warning of any new First time SEPA debits?

Hi Tow,

There is no immediate plans at present to change the 'SEPA Direct Debit services' that are currently available to customers.  If there is any changes to this, we'll make sure to advertise it through the usual channels.

Many thanks

Seán

dub45

Bank of Ireland: Alison wrote: »

Hi dub45

The information provided by Sean is as much information we have in relation to your queries.

Just to mention, a Direct Debit is an agreement with you and the company and the bank facilitates with the payments debiting your account.

Customers can decide to move back to a company after cancelling their initial mandate. We would never prevent a company setting up a new mandate, unless the customer has added this company to the ‘Black List’ as mentioned previously. With the SEPA Direct Debit Scheme customers now have extended rights and services available to them.

You can find extensive information on this process here

Thanks

Alison

When you say that is "as much information as you have in relation to my queries" you really mean you are not prepared to answer legitmate questions in respect of the bank fulfilling its obligations to ensure the integrity of customer accounts?

Unfortunately your reply shows a really shocking lack of knowledge of the dd system and I do not use those words lightly.
Your remark about the banks facilitating payments suggests that you think the banks have some passive role in the scheme and are doing customers some sort of favour. Also and it cannot be emphasised enough a direct debit is not an agreement between a customer and a company.

This is what a direct debit is:

"A direct debit is an instruction from a customer to their bank or building society, authorising an organisation (known as an originator) to collect variable or fixed amounts from their account, as long as the customer is given advance notice of the collection amounts and dates"

http://www.ipso.ie/section/section/ConsumerCornerWhatisaDirectDebit

<snip - not from sources quoted above or below>

http://www.ipso.ie/section/directdebitscheme

For example:

Sponsoring Banks Must:

• Ensure that Originators are aware of and comply with the Scheme Rules

[*]

Paying Banks Must:

• Only pay direct debits in accordance with customers’ Instructions
• Ensure that unauthorised and/or cancelled direct debits are intercepted and returned immediately on presentation
• Promptly refund customers for indemnity claims and present the Indemnity to the Originator
• Assist customers in resolving disputes with Originators
• Inform the Sponsoring Bank if an Originator is not adhering to the Scheme Rules

[*]


All of the above are a far cry from "Just to mention etc..........."


It is very disturbing to read that you never prevent a company from setting up a mandate.

How can the bank know when a mandate has been authorised by the customer?

Bank of Ireland: Billy

dub45 wrote: »

Bank of Ireland: Alison wrote: »

Hi dub45
 
The information provided by Sean is as much information we have in relation to your queries.
 
Just to mention, a Direct Debit is an agreement with you and the company and the bank facilitates with the payments debiting your account.
 
Customers can decide to move back to a company after cancelling their initial mandate.  We would never prevent a company setting up a new mandate, unless the customer has added this company to the ‘Black List’ as mentioned previously. With the SEPA Direct Debit Scheme customers now have extended rights and services available to them.
 
You can find extensive information on this process here
 
Thanks

Alison

When you say that is "as much information as you have in relation to my queries" you really mean  you are not prepared to answer legitmate questions in respect of the bank fulfilling its obligations to ensure the integrity of customer accounts?

Unfortunately your reply shows a really shocking lack of knowledge of the dd system and I do not use those words lightly.
Your remark about the banks facilitating payments suggests that you think the banks have some passive role in the scheme and are doing customers some sort of favour.  Also and it cannot be emphasised  enough a direct debit is not an agreement between a customer  and a company.

This is what a direct debit is:

"A direct debit is an instruction from a customer to their bank or building society, authorising an organisation (known as an originator) to collect variable or fixed amounts from their account, as long as the customer is given advance notice of the collection amounts and dates"

http://www.ipso.ie/section/section/ConsumerCornerWhatisaDirectDebit

The direct debit scheme is owned and run by the banks and the banks have considerable responsibilities under it as have the billing companies.

http://www.ipso.ie/section/directdebitscheme

For example:

Sponsoring Banks Must:

• Ensure that Originators are aware of and comply with the Scheme Rules
  
  
  

[*]

Paying Banks Must:

• Only pay direct debits in accordance with customers’ Instructions
  
• Ensure that unauthorised and/or cancelled direct debits are intercepted and returned immediately on presentation
  
• Promptly refund customers for indemnity claims and present the Indemnity to the Originator
  
• Assist customers in resolving disputes with Originators
  
• Inform the Sponsoring Bank if an Originator is not adhering to the Scheme Rules
  
  
  

[*]


All of the above are a far cry from "Just to mention etc..........."


It is very disturbing to read that you never prevent a company from setting up a mandate.

How can the bank know when a mandate has been authorised by the customer?

[*]
Hi dub45, 

Many thanks for your post. 

Under SEPA, originators are required to pre-notify debtors prior to their first direct debit collection. Customers are fully protected from any breach of scheme rules by originators through the availability of these new rights and services. Banks will only pay in accordance with customer instructions. Where a breach of customer instruction (including invalid mandate authorisation), breach of scheme rules, or a matter of dispute arises, ample customer protection is available in all circumstances, by using the new SEPA services. Full information on these rights are available here

Thanks

Billy

TheChizler

Sorry for bringing up an old thread but I've a relevant query. My girlfriend's BoI account was just direct-debited for the incorrect amount (8 times the correct amount) from a service provider, and wants to request a refund as it will likely be faster than it takes the provider to issue a refund, we will then pay the correct amount manually. She rang BoI but was told that direct debits cannot be refunded, only canceled for future payments. This is in direct contradiction to SEPA rules, so I would like to ask what is the correct procedure for requesting direct-debit refunds under SEPA, and also what is the average turnaround time for such a request?

SEPA Customer Rights (from IPSO) wrote:

The SEPA Direct Debit Core Scheme Rules and the SEPA Regulation 260-2012 make provision for the following consumer rights (effective 01 Feb 2014):

Debtors can :

...

Request a refund for any SEPA Direct Debit within eight weeks from the date on which the SEPA Direct Debit was debited from your account. Within the eight week period your bank must refund you on a no-questions asked basis.

dub45

TheChizler wrote: »

Sorry for bringing up an old thread but I've a relevant query. My girlfriend's BoI account was just direct-debited for the incorrect amount (8 times the correct amount) from a service provider, and wants to request a refund as it will likely be faster than it takes the provider to issue a refund, we will then pay the correct amount manually. She rang BoI but was told that direct debits cannot be refunded, only canceled for future payments. This is in direct contradiction to SEPA rules, so I would like to ask what is the correct procedure for requesting direct-debit refunds under SEPA, and also what is the average turnaround time for such a request?

It should be enough to call into your local branch and under the scheme rules the refund should be instant or thereabouts;)

Bank of Ireland: Sharon

TheChizler wrote: »

Sorry for bringing up an old thread but I've a relevant query. My girlfriend's BoI account was just direct-debited for the incorrect amount (8 times the correct amount) from a service provider, and wants to request a refund as it will likely be faster than it takes the provider to issue a refund, we will then pay the correct amount manually. She rang BoI but was told that direct debits cannot be refunded, only canceled for future payments. This is in direct contradiction to SEPA rules, so I would like to ask what is the correct procedure for requesting direct-debit refunds under SEPA, and also what is the average turnaround time for such a request?

Originally posted by SEPA Customer Rights (from IPSO)
The SEPA Direct Debit Core Scheme Rules and the SEPA Regulation 260-2012 make provision for the following consumer rights (effective 01 Feb 2014):

Debtors can :

...

Request a refund for any SEPA Direct Debit within eight weeks from the date on which the SEPA Direct Debit was debited from your account. Within the eight week period your bank must refund you on a no-questions asked basis.

Hi TheChizler,

Thanks for contacting us here on Boards.

We are very sorry to hear that your girlfriend was given incorrect information.

It is certainly possible to request a refund of a SEPA Direct Debit. Your girlfriend will need to fill out the 'Refund Direct Debit Payment(s)' form here and post it to the address at the bottom of the form.

There is also an option to add the company to a 'Black List', which means that they will not be able to set up any further mandates or present for any further debits on her account. For more details on this, please see here

We hope this helps, and if there's anything else we can help with, please let us know.

Thanks,
Sharon 

TheChizler

Thank you very much Sharon,

Would you have a rough idea of the timescale we could expect for turnaround? I understand you could only give an estimate if at all, we won't hold you to it! :) Just to determine whether we should go this route or wait for the provider to refund within their timescale.

Red Alert

The Black List facility is excellent, but why is not available through 365Online?

Bank of Ireland: Elaine

TheChizler wrote: »

Thank you very much Sharon,

Would you have a rough idea of the timescale we could expect for turnaround? I understand you could only give an estimate if at all, we won't hold you to it! :) Just to determine whether we should go this route or wait for the provider to refund within their timescale.

Hi TheChizler, 

Thank you for coming back to us. 

When a refund direct debit form is received, it can take up to 30 calendar days to investigate and have refunded.

We hope this helps clarify your query. 

Thanks, 
Elaine  

dub45

That is simply wrong. When a claim is made within eight weeks there is no investigation and a no question asked refund is guaranteed.

SEPA Consumer (Debtor) Rights

Under the SEPA Direct Debit Core Scheme Rules and SEPA Regulation 260-2012 consumers (debtors) can:

Use a single account to pay a SEPA Direct Debit in any SEPA country;
Instruct your bank to refuse a SEPA Direct Debit;
Prohibit the application of any SEPA Direct Debit to your bank accounts;
Specify Creditors who may collect SEPA Direct Debits from your bank accounts;
Specify Creditors who may not collect SEPA Direct Debits from your bank accounts;
Limit a SEPA Direct Debit collection to a certain amount and/or period;
Request a refund for any SEPA Direct Debit within eight weeks from the date on which the SEPA Direct Debit was debited from your account. Within the eight week period your bank must refund you on a no-questions asked basis;
Request a refund for any unauthorised SEPA Direct Debit after 8 weeks and within 13 months from the date the on which the SEPA Direct Debit was debited from your account

Bank of Ireland: Elaine

Hi, 

Apologies for any confusion with regards to our previous reply to TheChizler. 

Upon receipt of a Refund Direct Debit form, this request will be processed within 24 hours. The time frame mentioned above, would only come into play if the customer required further investigation into the reason for the initial debit. 

We hope this additional information helps clarify your query. 

Thanks, 
Elaine 

dub45

Where is the "confusion"? Wrong information was given to the customer who obviously needs this money back urgently.  The fact of the no questions asked return should be well known to every bank employee given its importance.

TheChizler

Thanks,

In this case we were aware of the incorrect bill before it happened, and the provider acknowledged that the bill was wrong and would be corrected, however the original (incorrect) amount was debited. Glad to hear of the short turnaround time for a simple refund request.

FGR

Hi guys.

The link above for the direct debit recall form doesn't work anymore. Is there a new link?

Thanks in advance.

Bank of Ireland: Sarah

Hi FGR, 

Thanks for your post here. 

You can find our SEPA Direct Debit refund form at this link. Please let us know if we can help with anything else. 

Thanks,
Sarah