St Annes Park Planning Application

jon1981

Good news, but it's not the end. They ain't going to walk way from a 20m investment that easy. They didn't pay 20m on a punt, they know this is a process they have to go through (with no doubt the best legal advise and insider knowledge), i'm not confident the planning will never be awarded.

Sleeper12

jon1981 wrote: »

Good news, but it's not the end. They ain't going to walk way from a 20m investment that easy. They didn't pay 20m on a punt, they know this is a process they have to go through (with no doubt the best legal advise and insider knowledge), i'm not confident the planning will never be awarded.

I do agree.

It depends on the reason for the refusal. Scale can be altered. I believe in this case it was turned down due to the effects it would have on wildlife & protected species. Not so easy to get around that

jon1981

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I do agree.

It depends on the reason for the refusal. Scale can be altered. I believe in this case it was turned down due to the effects it would have on wildlife & protected species. Not so easy to get around that

I was thinking about this. Strategy could be as simple as let the grass grow, protect the site, Geese won't return, wait a year, resubmit.


Bugs me that no local funding/investment was made available to built some amenities on this site. E.g community gym/pool similar to the dlr leisure services on the southside. Artane/Raheny/Clontarf are severely lacking in these community facilities.

ozmo

jon1981 wrote: »

They ain't going to walk way from a 20m investment that easy...

They would be mad to have actually handed over the money though - just guessing but could it have been a deal "dependant on planning permission obtained"

Has anyone seen any builder activity on the site as if they actually owned it?

What would be ideal would be if the land can just revert back to the order and the order could hopefully donate it back to the people or resell it a more realistic price to Dublin cc.

bren2001

ozmo wrote: »

They would be mad to have actually handed over the money though - just guessing but could it have been a deal "dependant on planning permission obtained"

Has anyone seen any builder activity on the site as if they actually owned it?

What would be ideal would be if the land can just revert back to the order and the order could hopefully donate it back to the people or resell it a more realistic price to Dublin cc.

Reports at the time explicitly stated the land was sold irrespective of whether planning permission was granted. There will be a few more twists in this you'd imagine.

jon1981

There's no way on earth that they bought this on the chance of getting permission. To my previous point, they expect to be put through a difficult process, but the end result will be permission granted.

Or I could be wrong and the back pocket card has already been played... which was the fast track process.

jay0109

All the NIMBYs out in force today aided and abetted by Politicians of the left. Oh the mockery of it all

ozmo

jon1981 wrote: »

Bugs me that no local funding/investment was made available to built some amenities on this site. E.g community gym/pool....

There was a pool right next door - St. Pauls - used to go to it myself - they built houses on that also just recently.

jon1981

ozmo wrote: »

There was a pool right next door - St. Pauls - used to go to it myself - they built houses on that also just recently.

This is my point, we complain about "community land" being used for houses but we don't build any amenities for the community on it!

Franz Von Peppercorn

The last thing this city needs is new housing.

jon1981

It's really about the Geese ;)

:pac::pac::pac:

ozmo

jay0109 wrote: »

All the NIMBYs out in force today aided and abetted by Politicians of the left. Oh the mockery of it all

Can you explain - What exactly do you mean by NIMBY?
I know it means "not in my back yard" but whats wrong with that - and why would you consider it an insult?

People in the area have a right to object to a single businessman chancing his arm at building right in the center of the best Northside park we have.

jay0109

A It's not anywhere near the centre of the park as even a glance at your map show's
B It's not really part of the park as it's fenced off as school pitches and so it's not used by walkers etc
C What difference is it if it was 1 businessman or a conglomerate of them

NIMBY-ism at it best/worst. And all cheer leaded on by the likes of Aodhan O'Riordain and other 'champions' from the Left

jon1981

jay0109 wrote: »

All the NIMBYs out in force today aided and abetted by Politicians of the left. Oh the mockery of it all

I won't pretend that I'm not unhappy about this decision, for me it was never about the Geese ( I found out the impact to the Geese afterwards).

I live near the junction where the proposed entrance will be and the traffic is an absolute mare at the best of times. Also I'm annoyed that no effort was made to build community amenities on the site firstly.

Does all this make me a Nimby? Probably.
Do I think Dublin needs these houses? Yes.
Given the opportunity to protest/object, will I ? Yes.
Will I be upset if permission is granted? No, I'll get over it.

jay0109

A very honest and to the point post jon1981

Sleeper12

ozmo wrote:

There was a pool right next door - St. Pauls - used to go to it myself - they built houses on that also just recently.

Apartments. 8 stories in believe

Sleeper12

jay0109 wrote:

All the NIMBYs out in force today aided and abetted by Politicians of the left. Oh the mockery of it all

I believe every politician & county Councillor from left and right except Richard Bruton. The entire DCC objected to the development. Not just NIMBYs

ozmo

jay0109 wrote: »

A It's not anywhere near the centre of the park

its pretty much..

jay0109 wrote: »

it's fenced off

Thats only recently since it was sold

jay0109 wrote: »

C What difference is it if it was 1 businessman or a conglomerate of them

Greed and short sightedness of the one vs the hundreds that use the site.
No shortage of alternative locations for housing nearby - eg. Clare Hall, Ballymun, Airport - plus the Swimming pool beside this that's being built on right now.

jay0109 wrote: »

...from the Left

I'm not an expert on who is left but as far as I can see this was widely condemned by all - including even the High Court.
Who can you mention that agreed with this development?

Franz Von Peppercorn

The airport is nowhere near St Anne’s Park. That development is walkable to the dart as well.

As for amenities, it’s the same amenities that already exist close to the village.

jay0109

ozmo wrote: »

No shortage of alternative locations for housing nearby - eg. Clare Hall, Ballymun, Airport - plus the Swimming pool beside this that's being built on right now.

The classic NIMBY right there


And how recent is 'recent' in terms of it being fenced off?

hmmm

We need to abandon Dublin city centre. No seriously, we need to abandon this low rise mega-village which will not accept high density living, and either move investment to a city which will (Limerick & Cork look good), or reorient the commercial aspect of the city towards high density locations on the outskirts (e.g. Sandyford/Central Park).

bren2001

jay0109 wrote: »

The classic NIMBY right there


And how recent is 'recent' in terms of it being fenced off?

I don't quite agree with you or your tone but contrary to above, it was fenced off long before it was sold. I have it in my head it was around 2000 but have nothing to back that up. It was certainly fenced off by 2003.

It's zone 15 land that ultimately has not been rezoned. I don't really see how this is NIMBY stuff. I don't want to see any green space similar to St Annes being rezoned for housing regardless of it is where I live or not.

Sleeper12

bren2001 wrote: »

I don't quite agree with you or your tone but contrary to above, it was fenced off long before it was sold. I have it in my head it was around 2000 but have nothing to back that up. It was certainly fenced off by 2003.

It's zone 15 land that ultimately has not been rezoned. I don't really see how this is NIMBY stuff. I don't want to see any green space similar to St Annes being rezoned for housing regardless of it is where I live or not.

I'm sorry but you are getting confused. This was my playground growing up. St Pauls my school for 2 years. It's also where you will find my wife everyday walking the dogs. The fence went up about a year ago.



Up to a year ago you would not know if you left the park or not by walking on these grounds. there was no barrier, fence of anything like it. There is a save ST Annes facebook group & you'll find recently taken photos without the fence. Fence went up to try show that public had no access. Up to a year ago you did not have to go through the school to get to these playing fields. Not cutting the grass is a new thing too. I'm guessing the last 6 months of so. Not cutting the grass is to try keep the geese away

ozmo

jay0109 wrote: »

The classic NIMBY

I wish.. - had to move far away to get a house so not my back yard anymore - but still respect others need for parklands and breathing space around the parkland even though I don't get to use it.

And no I'd never consider building my house on kids playing fields, and encroaching on the park as as solution to me having the option to moving to the area. There are other places suitable for that (link to areas available to build on).

This would not be even considered if it was an even numbered postcode.

bren2001

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm sorry but you are getting confused. This was my playground growing up. St Pauls my school for 2 years. It's also where you will find my wife everyday walking the dogs. The fence went up about a year ago.



Up to a year ago you would not know if you left the park or not by walking on these grounds. there was no barrier, fence of anything like it. There is a save ST Annes facebook group & you'll find recently taken photos without the fence. Fence went up to try show that public had no access. Up to a year ago you did not have to go through the school to get to these playing fields. Not cutting the grass is a new thing too. I'm guessing the last 6 months of so. Not cutting the grass is to try keep the geese away

Taken from the I Love St Annes page:

These 15 acres of playing fields, which form one side of the avenue running through the centre of the park, remained open to the park from that time until 2001 when the Vincentians, citing insurance reasons, applied for and were granted planning to erect a fence around their fields.

As I said, the fence has been there a very long time. I went to the school for 6 years. The fence was there. We used to run the perimeter of those fields as a warm up. It used to piss me off no end, the GAA pitch we used is the St. Vincents pitch (I think) directly behind the St Pauls pitches, we used to have to walk out and around.

jay0109

bren2001 wrote: »

I don't quite agree with you or your tone but contrary to above, it was fenced off long before it was sold. I have it in my head it was around 2000 but have nothing to back that up. It was certainly fenced off by 2003.

It's zone 15 land that ultimately has not been rezoned. I don't really see how this is NIMBY stuff. I don't want to see any green space similar to St Annes being rezoned for housing regardless of it is where I live or not.

Indeed, it certainly seems to have been fenced off many years ago...not in the 'recent' past as mentioned by another poster.
Google street view shows a fence up in Aug14.

This green space is no "similar to St Annes" as it's not part of St Anne's Park. It's playing pitches attached to a school adjacent to St Anne's park

Sleeper12

jay0109 wrote: »

Indeed, it certainly seems to have been fenced off many years ago...not in the 'recent' past as mentioned by another poster.
Google street view shows a fence up in Aug14.

This green space is no "similar to St Annes" as it's not part of St Anne's Park. It's playing pitches attached to a school adjacent to St Anne's park

What do you google to see that? Fields can't be seen from the road. I'm curious how the street car ended up inside the park

Seth Brundle

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm sorry but you are getting confused. This was my playground growing up. St Pauls my school for 2 years. It's also where you will find my wife everyday walking the dogs. The fence went up about a year ago.

Up to a year ago you would not know if you left the park or not by walking on these grounds. there was no barrier, fence of anything like it. There is a save ST Annes facebook group & you'll find recently taken photos without the fence. Fence went up to try show that public had no access. Up to a year ago you did not have to go through the school to get to these playing fields. Not cutting the grass is a new thing too. I'm guessing the last 6 months of so. Not cutting the grass is to try keep the geese away

bren2001 wrote: »

Taken from the I Love St Annes page:

These 15 acres of playing fields, which form one side of the avenue running through the centre of the park, remained open to the park from that time until 2001 when the Vincentians, citing insurance reasons, applied for and were granted planning to erect a fence around their fields.

As I said, the fence has been there a very long time. I went to the school for 6 years. The fence was there. We used to run the perimeter of those fields as a warm up. It used to piss me off no end, the GAA pitch we used is the St. Vincents pitch (I think) directly behind the St Pauls pitches, we used to have to walk out and around.

hmmm sounds like someone who claims to know the park very well through frequent use actually doesn't!

Seth Brundle

Sleeper12 wrote: »

What do you google to see that? Fields can't be seen from the road. I'm curious how the street car ended up inside the park

No but a person with a Google camera can walk the pathways

Sleeper12

Seth Brundle wrote:

hmmm sounds like someone who claims to know the park very well through frequent use actually doesn't!

There has always been a fence to some extent. When I was in Paul's there was a wire fence with concrete pillars about 5 or 6 feet high. All that was left in 81 was the pillars. when we did cross country runs for PE we ran out of the gym through the field and into the park. There have been several fences over the years.

There is a new fence only up a year or so. It was put up by the developers. 18 months ago you could get from the park to the field.