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Deposit & landlord - what is wear and tear

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2

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    #32
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    The blocked chimney could actually result in the PRTB ruling for damages in your favour.


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    #33
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    ocy wrote: »
    Anyone any idea of how long the PRTB take to look at disputes. This could be the best 15 eur ever spent.

    Also am i looking for adjudication or mediation.

    Really at a loss here, as there is guts of 3k at steak here, which I could really do with at the minute

    You should probably go for adjudication at this stage as you have moved out and mediation is pointless when you will most likely never deal with the person again. It could take several months to get any money awarded but they will most likely find in your favour and then make an order that the money be paid by a certain date.


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    #34
    groom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭groom


    How much of the €3k is he trying to keep

    I take it he isn't arguing that he should keep the full €3k so he should hand over the balance without a fuss. If he does try to withhold above and beyond that for leverage then the PRTB will come down even harder on him.

    I'll reiterate it again. Don't give any ground because he hasn't a leg to stand on


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    #35
    ocy
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭ocy


    Just heard back, he is trying to keep in region of 1400, if we take back the 1600 can we still proceed with case. Also he is not offering to let us even clean the over, the one thing I can admit to, although it's not really too bad. But as admitted it was the one thing I over looked

    Anyone any advice, I don't fancy waiting 1+ years for the 3 k


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    #36
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,507 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    ocy wrote: »
    Just heard back, he is trying to keep in region of 1400, if we take back the 1600 can we still proceed with case. Also he is not offering to let us even clean the over, the one thing I can admit to, although it's not really too bad. But as admitted it was the one thing I over looked

    Anyone any advice, I don't fancy waiting 1+ years for the 3 k

    You can take the 1600 and still proceed. If you are offering to remedy any issues and he is refusing to allow you get it in writing if possible for your case against him.


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    #37
    Sligo1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭Sligo1


    ocy wrote: »
    Just heard back, he is trying to keep in region of 1400, if we take back the 1600 can we still proceed with case. Also he is not offering to let us even clean the over, the one thing I can admit to, although it's not really too bad. But as admitted it was the one thing I over looked

    Anyone any advice, I don't fancy waiting 1+ years for the 3 k

    Take what you can get back and file a case with the PRTB for the remainder. It was about 10 months between sending in our application and the time our case was heard and meeting held. Definitely go for adjudication. Mediation will solve nothing in your case. Best of luck.


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    #38
    groom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭groom


    ocy wrote: »
    Just heard back, he is trying to keep in region of 1400, if we take back the 1600 can we still proceed with case. Also he is not offering to let us even clean the over, the one thing I can admit to, although it's not really too bad. But as admitted it was the one thing I over looked

    Anyone any advice, I don't fancy waiting 1+ years for the 3 k

    Taking the €1600 doesn't prevent you from seeking redress for the €1400. Just don't say anything that says you agree that it is acceptable for him to hold the €1400.

    It won't take over a year to go through the PRTB. It could take about 3 months for it to be heard and then if he appeals it might take another 3 months for the appeal to come around. Then another 3 months to get payment.
    He might even just pay up as soon as he get notification of the case to avoid having the determination published


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    #39
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    ocy wrote: »
    Also he is not offering to let us even clean the over, the one thing I can admit to, although it's not really too bad. But as admitted it was the one thing I over looked

    I dont think that he has any obligation to allow you back into the tenancy to clean things that you missed. Maybe in the interest of fairness he might, but dont count on it.

    As for the time the case takes, I dont think that there is a whole lot that you can do other than take your case and wait it out.


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    #40
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,507 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    djimi wrote: »
    I dont think that he has any obligation to allow you back into the tenancy to clean things that you missed. Maybe in the interest of fairness he might, but dont count on it.

    As for the time the case takes, I dont think that there is a whole lot that you can do other than take your case and wait it out.

    He isn't obliged but it is not looked upon favourably if the tenant was happy to try and rectify issues and was denied the opportunity by the landlord without a legitimate reason.


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    #41
    Sligo1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭Sligo1


    groom wrote: »

    It won't take over a year to go through the PRTB. It could take about 3 months for it to be heard and then if he appeals it might take another 3 months for the appeal to come around. Then another 3 months to get payment.
    He might even just pay up as soon as he get notification of the case to avoid having the determination published

    Have the PRTB gotten quicker in the last year at processing adjudications applications? It was 10 months before our case was heard in 2012. Then around another month or 2 for the determination order to be processed. Then another month for the LL to pay up. (The last month obviously dependent on LL).

    A seriously doubt you'd only be waiting 3 months for your adjudication meeting... Unless PRTB have become A LOT more efficient in the last year.

    P.s. there was no appeal in our case either so was fairly straight forward....


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    #42
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Sligo1 wrote: »
    Have the PRTB gotten quicker in the last year at processing adjudications applications? It was 10 months before our case was heard in 2012. Then around another month or 2 for the determination order to be processed. Then another month for the LL to pay up. (The last month obviously dependent on LL).

    A seriously doubt you'd only be waiting 3 months for your adjudication meeting... Unless PRTB have become A LOT more efficient in the last year.

    Unfortunately- I have to concur 100% with the above assessment.


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    #43
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    He isn't obliged but it is not looked upon favourably if the tenant was happy to try and rectify issues and was denied the opportunity by the landlord without a legitimate reason.

    Surely the fact that the tenancy has ended is a legitmate reason? There might already be new tenants in place.


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    #44
    groom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭groom


    I might have my terminology incorrect.
    From experience there were 2 hearings, the first more informal than the 2nd. I don't think the first one was mediation because there was an enforceable determination made. This hearing could be and was appealed. That was after 3 months from opening the case.
    The 2nd was a tribunal with a stenographer and 3 PRTB officials hearing it. It couldn't be appealed other than to a higher court outside the PRTB and then only on a point of law. This occurred 3-4 months after the first hearing. A judgement from this took 3 months and another 2 weeks to receive payment.

    All this happened in 2013 so perhaps things have sped up. I'm sure the PRTB would give an indication of time spans if you ask them


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    #45
    Sligo1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭Sligo1


    Ok so if that was 2013 things have definitely sped up since my case which is always good to hear.


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    #46
    ocy
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭ocy


    met iwith landlord and had letter printed stating that he was retaining x amount of deposit in lieu of the items listed above, and that in his opinion that they were outside clause 3.7 of the tenancy agreement, refused to sign and wanted us to sign that we took remainder of deposit and there would be no further action on our part. So left with no money! bye bye 3k for the moment


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    #47
    Sligo1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭Sligo1


    ocy wrote: »
    met iwith landlord and had letter printed stating that he was retaining x amount of deposit in lieu of the items listed above, and that in his opinion that they were outside clause 3.7 of the tenancy agreement, refused to sign and wanted us to sign that we took remainder of deposit and there would be no further action on our part. So left with no money! bye bye 3k for the moment

    FWIW I think uve done the right thing. Cheeky bugger! He's going to have to provide proof and receipts for EVERYTHING if you go for adjudication.


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    #48
    ocy
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭ocy


    he is a builder and told us the cost were "mates rates" and if we wanted he could get higher quotes. I am sick to the pit of my stomach, at the thoughts of my 3k lining some one elses pockets.


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    #49
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Sligo1 wrote: »
    FWIW I think uve done the right thing. Cheeky bugger! He's going to have to provide proof and receipts for EVERYTHING if you go for adjudication.

    Cheeky is right. That's why he tried to get the OP to sign that since he knows that if it goes to the PRTB it's not going to bode well for him.

    Good luck ocy, sorry to hear you're out 3 grand for the moment.


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    #50
    groom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭groom


    So he is attempting to use the remaining amount as leverage even though he has no good reason.
    Send him a registered post demand for that portion back
    Prtb will go through him for a short cut


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    #51
    Sligo1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭Sligo1


    Tell him you'll sign the agreement. When you meet him to sign take a really quick sneaky photo on ur phone of it before you sign. Then say u changed your mind. Give the photo of the agreement to the PRTB. Mwahahaha.


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    #52
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,507 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    djimi wrote: »
    Surely the fact that the tenancy has ended is a legitmate reason? There might already be new tenants in place.

    Perhaps, either way it will be considered at the adjudication.
    ocy wrote: »
    met iwith landlord and had letter printed stating that he was retaining x amount of deposit in lieu of the items listed above, and that in his opinion that they were outside clause 3.7 of the tenancy agreement, refused to sign and wanted us to sign that we took remainder of deposit and there would be no further action on our part. So left with no money! bye bye 3k for the moment

    You could have signed it and still taken a case. Him holding your money to ransom if you do not sign would have gone against him. It'll still go against him anyway. Good luck.


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    #53
    groom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭groom


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    You could have signed it and still taken a case. Him holding your money to ransom if you do not sign would have gone against him. It'll still go against him anyway. Good luck.

    Correct. Inequality of bargaining power
    I'm not claiming to be legal eagle by posting a wikipedia link but I know from experience that the PRTB consider equality of power in determinations and don't accept the thing your LL presented you with as a valid contract.

    However you're better off toughing it out anyway. It's better that you didn't sign it


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    #54
    ocy
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭ocy


    Thanks to all that posted, I am going to place in hands of PRTB now.

    Latest installment is now the condition of carpet has escalated....
    Apparently all cossespondence has to be in writing,emails/ text messages not accepted, so have to use postal system!

    Will let you all know how it turns out, hopefully in the not too distant future..


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    #55
    TheDoc
    Registered Users Posts: 23,137 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    Beyond lunacy that in this day an age email is not a valid form of record ...


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    #56
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    The PRTB accept e-mail correspondence as correspondence.......?


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    #57
    Sligo1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭Sligo1


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    The PRTB accept e-mail correspondence as correspondence.......?

    Yep. I have received and sent correspondence to them a few times.


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    #58
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Sligo1 wrote: »
    Yep. I have received and sent correspondence to them a few times.
    They will also accept text and email correspondence between tenant and landlord as legitimate.


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    #59
    ocy
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭ocy


    Update

    Lodged case with PRTB. Have been set a hearing date for a couple of weeks.

    What should I expect.

    Thanks


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    #60
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    ocy wrote: »
    Update

    Lodged case with PRTB. Have been set a hearing date for a couple of weeks.

    What should I expect.

    Thanks

    Well done and the best of luck...


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    #61
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,507 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    ocy wrote: »
    Update

    Lodged case with PRTB. Have been set a hearing date for a couple of weeks.

    What should I expect.

    Thanks

    Turn up with all your documents and a clear recollection of what happened. Also have an idea what questions you would want the landlord to answer re: repairs etc. Then turn up and the adjudicator will do the rest


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