Minister Shatter and Commissioner Callinan should both resign in disgrace

Banjo String

Shady Tady wrote: »

Martin Ferris, O'Snodaigh, Gerry Adams, three of the countries finest sons alright

That doesn't answer the question I put to you at all.

Shady Tady

Banjo String wrote: »

That doesn't answer the question I put to you at all.

I think that investigation is making good progress, let's see how it develops!

constance tench

stripeycoaster wrote: »

You have mixed up your chronology a little.

Michael Noonan's speech was in January 1986.

Alan Dukes spoke in November 1986.

See the link posted below for those particular speech extracts:

http://www.politics.ie/forum/current-affairs/223761-latest-garda-controversy-recording-conversations-garda-stations-76.html#post7877412

I know and I posted it here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89731497&postcount=1659

Yeah, I got the chronology wrong but
your main concern was not chronology, was it?, as your post [before you edited it] read ' I posted those particular extracts on another website'...your main concern was information was leaving politics.ie

Why didn't you post the other link here with your boards account?

brooke 2

sopretty wrote: »

I take it he has survived the vote of no confidence then?

That was a foregone conclusion.

Zubeneschamali

Banjo String wrote: »

Ian Paisley doesn't seem to have the same concerns as you.

Feck Ian Paisley - the likes of him in Dail Eireann is the best argument against a united ireland.

Zubeneschamali

Banjo String wrote: »

Has Gerry been charged or unquestionably connected to Jean McConville

Northern bank, blah blah blah.

But if Gerry wasn't in the IRA, if he was just a civilian Sinn Fein politician, where does all this leadership guff come from?

Nobody gives a rats if Sinn Fein pursue peaceful politics or not, the big question was do the IRA stop the campaign and allow peaceful politics.

If Adams was not in a leadership position in the IRA, he led nothing of interest, and achieved nothing. The man who should get the prizes and the recognition for the peace process is then not Adams, but some other figure who actually led the IRA during that time. [cough] ran for President [cough]

Banjo String

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Feck Ian Paisley - the likes of him in Dail Eireann is the best argument against a united ireland.

Paisley has never wanted a united Ireland. I doubt he'd ever have taken a seat in the Dail so great point.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

But if Gerry wasn't in the IRA, if he was just a civilian Sinn Fein politician, where does all this leadership guff come from?

Nobody gives a rats if Sinn Fein pursue peaceful politics or not, the big question was do the IRA stop the campaign and allow peaceful politics.

If Adams was not in a leadership position in the IRA, he led nothing of interest, and achieved nothing. The man who should get the prizes and the recognition for the peace process is then not Adams, but some other figure who actually led the IRA during that time. [cough] ran for President [cough]

The IRA `stopped' their campaign back in 97, accepted the terms of the GFA in 98, and decommissioned all weapons in 2005.

It is widely acknowledged that Gerry Adams and John Hume initiated the peace process that ultimately led to the GFA.

I believe the history books will be kind to Adams.

Zubeneschamali

Banjo String wrote: »

It is widely acknowledged that Gerry Adams and John Hume initiated the peace process that ultimately led to the GFA.

Yes, it's widely acknowledged that he was able to lead the IRA to the table.

Which is a good trick for someone with no past association with the IRA.

Shady Tady

Banjo String wrote: »

Paisley has never wanted a united Ireland. I doubt he'd ever have taken a seat in the Dail so great point.



The IRA `stopped' their campaign back in 97, accepted the terms of the GFA in 98, and decommissioned all weapons in 2005.

It is widely acknowledged that Gerry Adams and John Hume initiated the peace process that ultimately led to the GFA.

I believe the history books will be kind to Adams.

Even the chapter on Jean McConville?

Godge

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Yes, it's widely acknowledged that he was able to lead the IRA to the table.

Which is a good trick for someone with no past association with the IRA.

It was the ultimate example of leadership without responsibility.

I lead them to peace but I wasn't responsible for what they did.

Banjo String

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Yes, it's widely acknowledged that he was able to lead the IRA to the table.

Which is a good trick for someone with no past association with the IRA.

As did John Hume.

Members of the church have played their part in mediating with the IRA in many instances of the troubles. Fr Alec Reid for example.

They all have association with the Provos too I presume?

Moot point.

Scofflaw

STOP.

This thread is not about Sinn Fein, and it's definitely not a place for the usual NI trench warfare. Further off-topic posts will be removed with penalties.

moderately,
Scofflaw

aloyisious

This in today's Irish Times: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/rabbitte-s-dark-hints-throw-new-light-on-mystery-1.1747967:

No mention is made by anyone during the interview of a pre-existing order of discovery granted to Mr Bailey's legal team for all documentation relating to Mr Ian Bailey in the Sophie Toscan du Plantier murder investigation in Garda possession long before Mr Callinan (in his former position as Garda Commissioner) sent his letter to Mr Hawke, the Data Protection Commissioner, asking if it was legal for the Gardai to retain possession of the recordings.

That seem's to imply that the Gardai (at some level) wanted rid of the recordings, even in face of the Court Order for discovery. That was rapidly followed by a direct order from the AG to Mr Callinan that he and AGS were NOT to destroy the recordings. It seem's to me that it would have been wise for the Gardai to retain (at least) copies of all available sought material to put up legal argument or explanation in court as to why the recording were made in the first place, if it had complied with the court's order.

Somewhere along the line, some-one (I think Mr Hawke) put up the opinion that the recordings should be handed over into the possession of the National Archives by AGS, if it didn't want to retain possession of the recordings. It seem's the AG and Mr Hawke were against the Gardai using another way to end it's retention of the recordings.

One might posit that if the Govt were to receive advice from it's legal advisor (The Attorney General) that (due to written correspondence she was aware of - she feared the head of AGS was intent on disposing of material made an order of discovery by the courts, that the Commissioner was going to disobey the court) that the head of Govt might feel it had to take drastic steps to avoid such an outcome. The Taoiseach has stated that he, on his own, did not have authority to sack the Comm. One theoretical way to avoid such a major hiccup would be to advise the Comm by letter that the Govt was aware of the situation and tell him that if he took a certain step towards the court's order, the cabinet would be informed and he would be sacked. Such a letter from the Taoiseach (on advice) might contain an "honourable" way out of such an event. Plus there would be the chance that the courts would become AWARE of the apparent plan by the Garda-chief to flout it's order of discovery, a clear case of contempt of court.

RTE news (right now) in an interview with Leo Varadkar is asking him if the Govt feared the Comm would destroy the tapes. One would have to go to RTE's podcast system to hear that news interview.

Shady Tady

aloyisious wrote: »

This in today's Irish Times: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/rabbitte-s-dark-hints-throw-new-light-on-mystery-1.1747967:

No mention is made by anyone during the interview of a pre-existing order of discovery granted to Mr Bailey's legal team for all documentation relating to Mr Ian Bailey in the Sophie Toscan du Plantier murder investigation in Garda possession long before Mr Callinan (in his former position as Garda Commissioner) sent his letter to Mr Hawke, the Data Protection Commissioner, asking if it was legal for the Gardai to retain possession of the recordings.

That seem's to imply that the Gardai (at some level) wanted rid of the recordings, even in face of the Court Order for discovery. That was rapidly followed by a direct order from the AG to Mr Callinan that he and AGS were NOT to destroy the recordings. It seem's to me that it would have been wise for the Gardai to retain (at least) copies of all available sought material to put up legal argument or explanation in court as to why the recording were made in the first place, if it had complied with the court's order.

Somewhere along the line, some-one (I think Mr Hawke) put up the opinion that the recordings should be handed over into the possession of the National Archives by AGS, if it didn't want to retain possession of the recordings. It seem's the AG and Mr Hawke were against the Gardai using another way to end it's retention of the recordings.

One might posit that if the Govt were to receive advice from it's legal advisor (The Attorney General) that (due to written correspondence she was aware of - she feared the head of AGS was intent on disposing of material made an order of discovery by the courts, that the Commissioner was going to disobey the court) that the head of Govt might feel it had to take drastic steps to avoid such an outcome. The Taoiseach has stated that he, on his own, did not have authority to sack the Comm. One theoretical way to avoid such a major hiccup would be to advise the Comm by letter that the Govt was aware of the situation and tell him that if he took a certain step towards the court's order, the cabinet would be informed and he would be sacked. Such a letter from the Taoiseach (on advice) might contain an "honourable" way out of such an event. Plus there would be the chance that the courts would become AWARE of the apparent plan by the Garda-chief to flout it's order of discovery, a clear case of contempt of court.

RTE news (right now) in an interview with Leo Varadkar is asking him if the Govt feared the Comm would destroy the tapes. One would have to go to RTE's podcast system to hear that news interview.

The bailey case recordings were obviously part of the discovery, even buttimer the solicitor accepts that the gardai did not seek to destroy them, they were already handed over before the request for guidance on the others to the data commissioner, the government for their own benifit aren't clarifying this. Most people seem to be buying the spin

gizmo555

Shady Tady wrote: »

The bailey case recordings were obviously part of the discovery, even buttimer the solicitor accepts that the gardai did not seek to destroy them, they were already handed over before the request for guidance on the others to the data commissioner, the government for their own benifit aren't clarifying this. Most people seem to be buying the spin

Varadkar was trying the same thing again on the RTE radio news just now trying to spin it that the Gardai had asked for permission to destroy the tapes.

It may well be that that's exactly what they'd have liked to be able to do. However, what they actually asked the data protection commisioner was whether the tapes should retained or destroyed. Not quite the same thing as I'm sure Varadkar et al are well aware.

sopretty

I'd love to know what Pat Rabbitte was itching to disclose.

Off-topic, but Miriam Lord is my favourite journalist.

sparkling sea

Conas wrote: »

Some might argue that all the parties are pretty much powerless anyway. We are in the Iron grip of the EU and the European Central Bank after all.

Yes some might but SF are still more of the same.

We need another enlightement type period and a somewhat more realistic social contract but both are a long way off IMO. People still want the wool pulled over their eyes, we still haven't hit the bottom yet.

Muahahaha

sopretty wrote: »

Do you ever just feel so impotent, when you KNOW in your heart and soul that things are wrong, but the powers that be don't acknowledge it, so you're stuck with having to believe them? I no more trust that Shatter fella than I'd trust a snake at my heels.

I know, I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall when following politics in this country.

We all know (even FGers) that Alan Shatter has conducted himself in less than exemplary fashion throughout this scandal. In the space of just a few short weeks he and the Taosieach both attacked GSOC for not informing him of the bugging, he gave the head of GSOC a dressing down for not informing him and the Taoiseach even made up fake legislation to say that GSOC were legally obliged to inform him when it turns out they weren't. Shatter publically admonished GSOC for keeping him out of the loop but here we are a few weeks later and the Secretary of his Dept didn't inform him for two weeks about the letter from Callinan outlining the bugging of Garda stations. But this time Shatter doesn't fly into a rage and Enda Kenny doesn't stick the boot in when they are kept out of the loop. They're hypocrites playing a political game, trying their level best to play the public for fools.

The joke will be on them at the local elections in a few weeks, Shatters smarmy demeanor and arrogance and his half miffed apology to Garda McCabe which took six months to produce grudgingly and under duress has filtered down to the doorsteps in the last opinion poll. A lot of people 'lent' Fine Gael their vote in 2011 in order to get FF out of power. Now that FG have proven beyond all doubt that they are a carbon copy of FF people won't be so quick to lend them anything.

Shady Tady

sopretty wrote: »

I'd love to know what Pat Rabbitte was itching to disclose.

Off-topic, but Miriam Lord is my favourite journalist.

Pat was just slinging mud, he's an Olympic mud slinging champion!

sparkling sea

And I still can't fathom why CPSU has remained virtually silent on this matter.

Civilians working in Garda stations may have had their rights infringed but their union seems to have done nothing, very very odd that they haven't followed their usual MO on this one. Something doesn't add up and I haven't even heard a squeak of what it might be, that in and off itself makes me terrified.

hatrickpatrick

Muahahaha wrote: »

I know, I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall when following politics in this country.

We all know (even FGers) that Alan Shatter has conducted himself in less than exemplary fashion throughout this scandal. In the space of just a few short weeks he and the Taosieach both attacked GSOC for not informing him of the bugging, he gave the head of GSOC a dressing down for not informing him and the Taoiseach even made up fake legislation to say that GSOC were legally obliged to inform him when it turns out they weren't. Shatter publically admonished GSOC for keeping him out of the loop but here we are a few weeks later and the Secretary of his Dept didn't inform him for two weeks about the letter from Callinan outlining the bugging of Garda stations. But this time Shatter doesn't fly into a rage and Enda Kenny doesn't stick the boot in when they are kept out of the loop. They're hypocrites playing a political game, trying their level best to play the public for fools.

It's much worse than that. shatter said, and I quote:

Alan Shatter wrote:

I find it extraordinary that the main focus of attention on this issue has been overwhelmingly on the fact that officials in the Department of Justice and Equality failed to give me a letter received from the Garda Commissioner on Monday, 10 March 2014 and that I did not receive it until 25 March 2014. What purpose would there be, if I had received it any earlier, in concealing that fact? What purpose would there have been to do nothing about it? Do the Deputies opposite think anyone in this House wished yet another area of difficulty to arise in respect of an An Garda Síochána? Do they think there was any interest in not addressing issues when they first arose? Of course there was not. However, what Members opposite are deliberately doing to distract from the real issues is focusing on process as opposed to substance.

Emphasis is my own. Blatant, indisputable hypocrisy in my view. Process as opposed to substance? Good thing he focused entirely on the possibility that someone attempted to undermine justice by bugging GSOC, and not whether or not they decided to tell... Wait, wait a minute

Godge

sparkling sea wrote: »

And I still can't fathom why CPSU has remained virtually silent on this matter.

Civilians working in Garda stations may have had their rights infringed but their union seems to have done nothing, very very odd that they haven't followed their usual MO on this one. Something doesn't add up and I haven't even heard a squeak of what it might be, that in and off itself makes me terrified.

It is possible from the information available that everyone (or most of them) working in Garda stations were aware that phone conversations were being recorded.

If that is the case, there was no breach of Data Protection Law in respect of conversations involving those who knew as the law quite clearly allows for the taping of calls when one person in the conversation knows the conversation is being recorded.

The difficulty in this case lies in the recording of conversations between two people e.g. a solicitor and his client, neither of whom were aware that the conversation was being recorded.

If I am correct, then there is no mystery to the silence of the CPSU.

gizmo555

Godge wrote: »

If I am correct, then there is no mystery to the silence of the CPSU.

Every time I see or hear those initials, I can't help thinking the reference is to the Communist Party of the Soviet Union . . .

Fr. Ned

Couple of questions regarding Shatter's 'alleged' hate mail.

Who leaked the information to the press?

Is it usual to see the actual 'evidence' all over the press while an investigation is taking place?

Was this leaked by a Garda or by some desperate politician?

Should the Taoiseach be commenting on an 'alleged' crime in Dail Eireann just hours after it supposedly happened?

Does anyone actually believe that this happened at all?

tomdempsey200

what was the white powder?

I'm sure shatter wasn't too put out with his brass neck

tomdempsey200

kenny seemed to be most upset

he took it very badly..

mikom

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

what was the white powder?

Lime powder and salt.
Mix it 1 part powder to 5 parts water.
Makes an effective whitewash.

sopretty

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

what was the white powder?

I'm sure shatter wasn't too put out with his brass neck

Baking powder apparently!

Conas

mikom wrote: »

Lime powder and salt.
Mix it 1 part powder to 5 parts water.
Makes an effective whitewash.

They'll say it was an anthrax attack.

aloyisious

Re the recordings, I can imagine some looks of discomfort in the various stations at being found out as the source/s of leaks to the media, let alone Confidential Informants getting worried.

tiredofthis

Callinan's letter states
"This material relates to tapes of telephone conversations which took place on various dates during 1997 between members of An Garda Síochána at Bandon Garda Station

• and other serving members of An Garda Síochána
• and also with Ms Marie Farrell
• and in other cases with journalists who were contacting An Garda Síochána seeking information."

We've already learned of a tape recording of a conversation between a Bandon garda and another witness. Why didn't Callinan include that in the list?

I hope that the hearing tomorrow reveals more about the material on which gardaí are claiming privilege.

I wonder if all the recordings are between garda stations and other parties. Or did some gardaí's thirst for justice result in the taping of other conversations?

Fr. Ned

Heres another thing.

Isn't it funny how letters sent to Shatter on Tuesday can be at his home and his desk the next day and Enda can mention it in Dail Eireann a couple of hours after Shatter received it, yet it takes over 15 days for a letter from the Garda commissioner to come to anyone's attention?

Who do they think they're kidding?

Red Nissan

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Heres another thing.

Isn't it funny how letters sent to Shatter on Tuesday can be at his home and his desk the next day and Enda can mention it in Dail Eireann a couple of hours after Shatter received it, yet it takes over 15 days for a letter from the Garda commissioner to come to anyone's attention?

Who do they think they're kidding?

They think we are all primary school children. Perhaps we should not allow so many teachers in office. Just a thought.

fr3d12

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Couple of questions regarding Shatter's 'alleged' hate mail.

Who leaked the information to the press?

Is it usual to see the actual 'evidence' all over the press while an investigation is taking place?

Was this leaked by a Garda or by some desperate politician?

Should the Taoiseach be commenting on an 'alleged' crime in Dail Eireann just hours after it supposedly happened?

Does anyone actually believe that this happened at all?

I also thought it was strange yesterday afternoon that Enda was able to tell the Dail that the substance found was harmless, this was only a couple of hours after the incident occured.
We were also told that Shatter receives a lot of anti-semitic material but why was this the first time such incidents are deemed newsworthy?
It is sinister if he receives mail at his house but in my cynical opinion it was sent to the MoJ and the location conveniently changed to the Shatter family home.

Fr. Ned

The whole thing is a sham.
It has taken the spindoctors over a month to come up with something that they reckon the public will swallow.

Callinan will bring Shatter and possibly this fake government down.

This hasn't gone away.

Muahahaha

Fr. Ned wrote: »

The whole thing is a sham.
It has taken the spindoctors over a month to come up with something that they reckon the public will swallow.

Callinan will bring Shatter and possibly this fake government down.

This hasn't gone away.

I had been thinking about what role Callinan will have to play in this from behind the shadows of private citizenship. All the senior management in the Park are still loyal to him so organising media leaks about any politician he wishes won't be a problem. Will we eventually hear the full details of Alan Shatter refusing a breath test ? And will it emerge that he said to the Guard on duty 'Do you know who I am'? If something along those lines were to emerge then it would be curtains for Shatter, Kenny might be his ardent backer right now but they've just lost nearly 10% of their share of the polls over this so he won't want to cede anymore ground to Sinn Fein who have been making hay out of this story along with some independents.

sarumite

fr3d12 wrote: »

I also thought it was strange yesterday afternoon that Enda was able to tell the Dail that the substance found was harmless, this was only a couple of hours after the incident occured.

They probably had a fair idea within 30 minutes that it was harmless. Testing for these substances is pretty robust and nowadays many are designed to be done on site without the need for a lab. Confirmation can come later, but even then it would probably only take 1-2 hours after receiving a sample to rule out the vast majority of known contaminants.

sparkling sea

Godge wrote: »

It is possible from the information available that everyone (or most of them) working in Garda stations were aware that phone conversations were being recorded.

If that is the case, there was no breach of Data Protection Law in respect of conversations involving those who knew as the law quite clearly allows for the taping of calls when one person in the conversation knows the conversation is being recorded.

The difficulty in this case lies in the recording of conversations between two people e.g. a solicitor and his client, neither of whom were aware that the conversation was being recorded.

If I am correct, then there is no mystery to the silence of the CPSU.

It is of course possible that they knew but that may then bring up a whole host of employment rights issues. This would need to be an explict term in the contract of employment. And if the many clerical workers, etc knew because it was an explict term then what was everyone claiming to be surprised and why wasn't the issue addressed.

fr3d12

Red Nissan wrote: »

They think we are all primary school children. Perhaps we should not allow so many teachers in office. Just a thought.

They'd have us under the whip system if they could.

Fr. Ned

Muahahaha wrote: »

I had been thinking about what role Callinan will have to play in this from behind the shadows of private citizenship. All the senior management in the Park are still loyal to him so organising media leaks about any politician he wishes won't be a problem. Will we eventually hear the full details of Alan Shatter refusing a breath test ? And will it emerge that he said to the Guard on duty 'Do you know who I am'? If something along those lines were to emerge then it would be curtains for Shatter, Kenny might be his ardent backer right now but they've just lost nearly 10% of their share of the polls over this so he won't want to cede anymore ground to Sinn Fein who have been making hay out of this story along with some independents.

It's FFail who have made the most of this.
SF are on 21%, same as the last poll.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fine-gael-support-declines-as-fianna-f%C3%A1il-recovers-ground-1.1749445

FFail and FG both on 25%.

One and the same........

fr3d12

Fr. Ned wrote: »

It's FFail who have made the most of this.
SF are on 21%, same as the last poll.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fine-gael-support-declines-as-fianna-f%C3%A1il-recovers-ground-1.1749445

FFail and FG both on 25%.

One and the same........

One out of every two people polled supports either FF or FG:eek:

holyhead

I'm reading that the stand in commissioner has decscribed Callinan's "disgusting" remark as unfortunate. I would have thought unacceptable was closer to the truth and leaves me wondering if she would be more of the same not realising how wrong Callinan was to describe the actions of the whistleblowers as disgusting.

aloyisious

It seems that the Govt doesn't realise that their honeymoon is long over, that the hapless "We're all victims" stage is gone by. I heard the "distractive" question Mr Shatter asked about the Callinan-letter "why are people concentrating on it?" - a classical "answer the question with a question" attempt to wrong-foot the O/P, and in this case, the public. Mr Callinan sent the letter by Garda Courier, so as to ensure it would arrive directly from Garda HQ and the identity of the sender would be known, unlike a letter arriving anonymously via An Post.

The Govt (ministerial) statements about the letter failing to arrive on Mr Shatters desk ASAP are non-statements, void of explanation. The routing of the letter highlight's an apparent failure of government at a very basic level, communication between two very important sections of Government. If the Govt can't communicate successfully within itself, why does it think it can do so with a very sceptical cynical public? Will it ever see how irritated the public are with this disfunctional Govt and it's political practices? IMO, Alan Shatter's display was the utmost display of the distance from reality and contact with the public the Oireachtas-set has.

aloyisious

holyhead wrote: »

I'm reading that the stand in commissioner has decscribed Callinan's "disgusting" remark as unfortunate. I would have thought unacceptable was closer to the truth and leaves me wondering if she would be more of the same not realising how wrong Callinan was to describe the actions of the whistleblowers as disgusting.

She was with him at the "PAC" Q & A hearing, and was photo'd with him walking out through the Courtyard gates of Leinster House onto Kildare St with him after the hearing, with a smile on her face. I suppose that she doesn't want to dirty her own chance of getting the "job" by dumping on the senior AGS set, or by reflection, the Cabinet as well. She might have to settle back into her old job, under some-one else within the current senior AGS set appointed to the "job".

Sierra Oscar

Level of contact between media and gardai on du Plantier death 'beyond belief' - Ian Bailey's legal team

This morning, the High Court heard that there were "hundreds and hundreds" of contacts between gardai and journalists on tapes that have been disclosed by the State to Mr Bailey's legal team.

It will be very interesting to hear more about that!

brooke 2

holyhead wrote: »

I'm reading that the stand in commissioner has decscribed Callinan's "disgusting" remark as unfortunate. I would have thought unacceptable was closer to the truth and leaves me wondering if she would be more of the same not realising how wrong Callinan was to describe the actions of the whistleblowers as disgusting.

She would be 'more of the same'! Hope she is not appointed. She sat beside Callinan at the PAC and did not seem to have been a bit perturbed at his 'disgusting' remark.

Also said that McCabe's situation re PULSE is 'under review'!!

curioser

"[QUOTE=aloyisious;89777087
"The Govt (ministerial) statements about the letter failing to arrive on Mr Shatters desk ASAP are non-statements, void of explanation. The routing of the letter highlight's an apparent failure of government at a very basic level, communication between two very important sections of Government. If the Govt can't communicate successfully within itself, why does it think it can do so with a very sceptical cynical public? Will it ever see how irritated the public are with this disfunctional Govt and it's political practices? IMO, Alan Shatter's display was the utmost display of the distance from reality and contact with the public the Oireachtas-set has"QUOTE]

The fault lies in the Department of Justice. The Commissioner would have instructions that his correspondence is sent to the Secretary-General -he is forbidden to write directly to the Minister. The Sec-Gen decides what correspondence is shown to the Minister. Due to the Sec-Gen's absence, the letter either remained unopened or was opened and left to await his return. Whatever occurred, senior officials in the Department have major questions to answer.

sopretty

I would be loathe to see anyone from the current ranks of AGS gaining Commissioner status. You can't de-programme someone who has progressed through the ranks of a corrupt organisation. To progress that far, you need to be implicitly involved in corruption. That's my opinion.

Busted Flat.

sopretty wrote: »

I would be loathe to see anyone from the current ranks of AGS gaining Commissioner status. You can't de-programme someone who has progressed through the ranks of a corrupt organisation. To progress that far, you need to be implicitly involved in corruption. That's my opinion.

The top ranks should be stripped out to superintendent rank, and an out of country officer should be appointed to the Commissioner with a multi talented overseeing body to keep overall control.

kerry4sam

sopretty wrote: »

I would be loathe to see anyone from the current ranks of AGS gaining Commissioner status. You can't de-programme someone who has progressed through the ranks of a corrupt organisation. To progress that far, you need to be implicitly involved in corruption. That's my opinion.

Busted Flat. wrote: »

The top ranks should be stripped out to superintendent rank, and an out of country officer should be appointed to the Commissioner with a multi talented overseeing body to keep overall control.

This is Ireland! Spend some time either working in An Garda Síochána and see first hand how things operate from the inside; or find yourself a real close ally and you won't be wasting your time wishing for progress like that on our Island!