Euro 2016 draw on Sunday

DazMarz

I think it's gas that Bray, Co. Wicklow, has more people than Gibraltar does.

adaminho

DazMarz wrote: »

I think it's gas that Bray, Co. Wicklow, has more people than Gibraltar does.

I think its gas Gibraltar has a better team than Bray :pac::D

DazMarz

adaminho wrote: »

I think its gas Gibraltar has a better team than Bray :pac::D

That too.......

The_Kew_Tour

And maybe us.

eyescreamcone

adaminho wrote: »

I think its gas Gibraltar has a better team than Bray :pac::D

I wouldn't agree with that statement

Most loi teams would beat Gibralter I reckon

bren2001

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with that statement

Most loi teams would beat Gibralter I reckon

Ireland U19 team beat them 1-0 last year.

eyescreamcone

Pick a town in Ireland with a population of 30,000 or a small county.
County Carlow for instance.
Pick a team of amateurs.
There's your standard.

If Gibralter were entered into the Fai Junior Cup they wouldn't win it.

But top pros like Germany have to give up two valuable games to them - and they're not even a proper country.

Uefa need to look at this and dump these useless teams into a qualifying group where they can be competitive against each other or told to join up with their neighbours.

roanoke

No doubt Gibraltar already have a few professional ringers and will probably get a few more before before the games begin. I think simply saying "the place has 30k" is oversimplifying it. I'd imagine Gibraltar will go after any pro or semi-pro player who qualifies from them.

Mr.Nice Guy

I didn't realise Gibraltar had its own anthem. I figured they just used the UK one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CRGgXHwgH8

Wiki tells me the UK anthem is its official anthem and this song was chosen as a national song from a competition in 1994.

I kind of get a Disney vibe off it.

eyescreamcone

roanoke wrote: »

No doubt Gibraltar already have a few professional ringers and will probably get a few more before before the games begin. I think simply saying "the place has 30k" is oversimplifying it. I'd imagine Gibraltar will go after any pro or semi-pro player who qualifies from them.

Semi pro???
Maybe they might get a few gas "stars" to moonlight in the off season

They'll be battered

GLaDOS

roanoke wrote: »

No doubt Gibraltar already have a few professional ringers and will probably get a few more before before the games begin. I think simply saying "the place has 30k" is oversimplifying it. I'd imagine Gibraltar will go after any pro or semi-pro player who qualifies from them.

The mighty Danny Higginbotham plays for them I believe

Lawrence1895

adaminho wrote: »

I think its gas Gibraltar has a better team than Bray :pac::D

But that sheds a very bad light on the Bray manager. Who again is that?

GLaDOS

sugarman wrote: »

The only case ive heard of retiring from club football to concentrate on international:D

Wouldn't rule out Robbie Keane doing something similar

Idbatterim

When you have a poor and overly cautious manager the players always end up not doing enough. They're so weighed down with warnings and so bamboozled with unnecessary and ineffective instructions that they end up falling apart on the pitch. This is what a team being managed badly looks like.

Taken from the united thread, referencing moyes, sounds so familiar! I cant wait to see how we perform under the new duo. Cant see Keane adopting the it will do approach to anything!

COYW

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Uefa need to look at this and dump these useless teams into a qualifying group where they can be competitive against each other or told to join up with their neighbours.

I think that is very unfair on Gibraltar. These "minnow" sides have as much right to be in the competition as anyone. Define competitive? They might struggle in this campaign and finish bottom of the group but the experience of competing at this level might/will lead to a stronger and more competitive side from Gibraltar by 2020 or thereabouts.

I am guessing that you are a RoI supporter? What would you say if a German, Spanish etc fan suggested that "useless" teams like the RoI who provide no meaningful competition for their side should be put into "qualifying group where they can be competitive". Maybe the RoI, NI, Scotland and Wales should join as one to form a side that can compete against the above?

eyescreamcone

In most competitions teams of broadly similar abilities compete. Divisions are formed of teams so that Man City are not playing pub teams every week.

Make no mistake, in international football a team representing a population similar to County Carlow, is a pub team!!!

ROI have previously beaten the likes of Brazil, Germany, Spain, France etc and have qualified for 5 finals tournaments.

To compare us to Gibralter shows an amount of ignorance.

Paulegend

eyescreamcone wrote: »

In most competitions teams of broadly similar abilities compete. Divisions are formed of teams so that Man City are not playing pub teams every week.

Make no mistake, in international football a team representing a population similar to County Carlow, is a pub team!!!

ROI have previously beaten the likes of Brazil, Germany, Spain, France etc and have qualified for 5 finals tournaments.

To compare us to Gibralter shows an amount of ignorance.

how many people play football in ireland compared to spain france england germany??

in this country we have about 4 million people.

in it we have GAA which is probably the biggest game (i hate it but thats life)
we also have Rugby and Soccer. then we have smaller sports like basketball criket and so on.

with the amount of people that are in our "soccer pool" to choose from, we can hardly winge about smaller nations competing in these competitions

http://abehnisch.com/uefa-land-population/

countries that have bigger population than us in europe include

belarus
georgia
kazakhstan
hungary
azerbajan
isreal
bulgaria
finland
and scotland

all apart from scotland finland and gergia have at least 3 million more people than we do.

so by your logic all of those teams could argue that smaller nations like ourselves who have only qualifies for how many tournaments in the last 10 years?? and how did we do?? we where the gibralter of our group ffs

COYW

Gibraltar haven't had the opportunity to qualify for such tournaments, for starters.

eyescreamcone wrote: »

In most competitions teams of broadly similar abilities compete. Divisions are formed of teams so that Man City are not playing pub teams every week.

You cannot compare international and club football. Apples and oranges.

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Make no mistake, in international football a team representing a population similar to County Carlow, is a pub team!!!

Again, the ROI is roughly the same as the Berlin Metropolitan area population wise. Pub team?

eyescreamcone wrote: »

To compare us to Gibralter shows an amount of ignorance.

Dare I suggest that your dismissive attitude towards these teams shows a significant volume of (unfounded) footballing arrogance.

dan1895

Paulegend wrote: »

how many people play football in ireland compared to spain france england germany??

in this country we have about 4 million people.

in it we have GAA which is probably the biggest game (i hate it but thats life)
we also have Rugby and Soccer. then we have smaller sports like basketball criket and so on.

with the amount of people that are in our "soccer pool" to choose from, we can hardly winge about smaller nations competing in these competitions

http://abehnisch.com/uefa-land-population/

countries that have bigger population than us in europe include

belarus
georgia
kazakhstan
hungary
azerbajan
isreal
bulgaria
finland
and scotland

all apart from scotland finland and gergia have at least 3 million more people than we do.

so by your logic all of those teams could argue that smaller nations like ourselves who have only qualifies for how many tournaments in the last 10 years?? and how did we do?? we where the gibralter of our group ffs

We've been playing international football and in some cases competing at tournaments before some of those countries existed.

HooohRaaah

What are peoples realistic predictions for us results wise? Personally I think

Georgia (away) - Win
Gibraltar (home) - Win
Germany (away) - Lose
Scotland (away) - Draw
Poland (home) - Draw
Scotland (home) - Win
Gibraltar (away) - Win
Georgia (home) - Win
Germany (home) - Draw
Poland (away) - Draw

19 points - Is that enough for second spot?

ArmaniJeanss

eyescreamcone wrote: »

In most competitions teams of broadly similar abilities compete. Divisions are formed of teams so that Man City are not playing pub teams every week.

Make no mistake, in international football a team representing a population similar to County Carlow, is a pub team!!!

ROI have previously beaten the likes of Brazil, Germany, Spain, France etc and have qualified for 5 finals tournaments.

To compare us to Gibralter shows an amount of ignorance.

The true ignorance is in writing them off before they've even played a game.

COYW

HooohRaaah wrote: »

What are peoples realistic predictions for us results wise? Personally I think

Georgia (away) - Win
Gibraltar (home) - Win
Germany (away) - Lose
Scotland (away) - Draw
Poland (home) - Draw
Scotland (home) - Win
Gibraltar (away) - Win
Georgia (home) - Win
Germany (home) - Draw
Poland (away) - Draw

19 points - Is that enough for second spot?

Georgia (away) - Draw
Gibraltar (home) - Win
Germany (away) - Lose
Scotland (away) - Draw
Poland (home) - Draw (I think that will be like a home game for Poland)
Scotland (home) - Draw
Gibraltar (away) - Win
Georgia (home) - Win
Germany (home) - Lose
Poland (away) - Draw

Third spot, I reckon. Poland second. Georgia are a tough side to beat in Tbilisi. The top tier of sides have even struggled there. A draw there would be more realistic.

eyescreamcone

Germany are a number one seed.
RoI are a number two seed

The pub sides are seeded six.
And Gibralter are probably the worst of the pub teams
We are a long way away from being a pub team.

eyescreamcone

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

The true ignorance is in writing them off before they've even played a game.

Shows what you know about sport.

I'm also dismissing Carlow and Leitrim from winning the All-Ireland.

I believe most bookmakers would agree with me.

Paulegend

dan1895 wrote: »

We've been playing international football and in some cases competing at tournaments before some of those countries existed.

its true but how does that have any relevance? is there suppose to be some sort of entitlement because our playing football was because of our connection to britain??

every country has to start somewhere and id like to think that in a hundred years time russia usa and australia will be a couple of the biggest footballing nations in the world. purely because it will mean the popularity of the game will grow and the amount of talent with it.

there is no reason to have the attitude of "if your not big enough we dont want you" towards nations or principalities that hope to eventually be nations, that want to play this game we all love

whats the point in having a world series when only one country in involved??

the more the merrier i say. so what that they might be the whipping boys. when we started we where the whipping boys

ArmaniJeanss

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Shows what you know about sport.

I'm also dismissing Carlow and Leitrim from winning the All-Ireland.

Jaysus now, I never said anything about Gibraltar winning Euro 2016, not sure why you are so completely and utterly misrepresenting what I said.

For what its worth I think its likely that Gibraltar will prove to be above the 'pub sides' as you describe them. Not their first campaign which could be a cruel introduction obviously but I'd expect them to be a yo-yo between Pot 5 and Pot 6 in a few years time, more like Kazakstan and Cyprus than say Andorra and San Marino.

Paulegend

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Germany are a number one seed.
RoI are a number two seed

The pub sides are seeded six.
And Gibralter are probably the worst of the pub teams
We are a long way away from being a pub team.

i remember some great games against liechenstein and luxumborg in the charlton days. they are bottom seeds

would you rather there was only 10 teams in europe and noone else was allowed to play??

eyescreamcone

Paulegend wrote: »

i remember some great games against liechenstein and luxumborg in the charlton days. they are bottom seeds

would you rather there was only 10 teams in europe and noone else was allowed to play??

I would rather the mickey mouse countries played in their own group, with the winner going forward to play the big boys.
However, Gibralter is a British Overseas Territory and not a real country.

Beefy78

There's a balancing act to have. I'd definitely lean much more towards the side of the argument welcoming the smaller nations but I do think having some sort of pre-qualifying tournament for the very lowest ranked teams wouldn't be a bad idea. It can't do San Marino any good to be spanked eight or nine twice a year. If they're playing teams of one rank above them rather than the real big boys then that has to increase their standards as they will have some kind of chance in the game. Right now they don't go into matches trying to win - they go in trying to keep the score to five or less.

Teams can massively improve though. Whilst I wouldn't compare them in terms of population to a Gibraltar or San Marino, it wasn't long ago that Turkey were not much above that level in terms of standard. Growing up in England I distinctly remember a couple of cases in the 80s where England stuck seven in against them. Teams can only get better by competing and by being given opportunities.

Paulegend

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Jaysus now, I never said anything about Gibraltar winning Euro 2016, not sure why you are so completely and utterly misrepresenting what I said.

For what its worth I think its likely that Gibraltar will prove to be above the 'pub sides' as you describe them. Not their first campaign which could be a cruel introduction obviously but I'd expect them to be a yo-yo between Pot 5 and Pot 6 in a few years time, more like Kazakstan and Cyprus than say Andorra and San Marino.

i wouldnt put it past them to get better in 10-20 years down the line. since there is that political thing between them and spain and they are part of the britian (dont know if its commonwealth or some other thing), they have two great coutries there that will potentially have 'granny rule' players to filter in.

just look at basque. if they ever got eufe clearance they would be an unbelievable side

---

Gorka Iraizoz
Iraola---San José----Iñigo Martínez----Monreal

---

alonso---javi martinez
munian

---

Herrera

---

Arteta

---

llorente

thats leaving out
Raul Garcia
Xabi Prieto
Oscar de Marcos
Azpilicueta


that would be some team

Paulegend

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I would rather the mickey mouse countries played in their own group, with the winner going forward to play the big boys.
However, Gibralter is a British Overseas Territory and not a real country.

same could have been said about us not 100 years ago

and how many "big boy" teams would you have? there are a few teams in both the 3rd and 4th pots that could argue they are bigger than us right now

what about northern ireland? are they big enough? wales? belguim? how many people would be required living in your country to entitle you to be classed as one of the big boys??

ArmaniJeanss

Beefy78 wrote: »

There's a balancing act to have. I'd definitely lean much more towards the side of the argument welcoming the smaller nations but I do think having some sort of pre-qualifying tournament for the very lowest ranked teams wouldn't be a bad idea. It can't do San Marino any good to be spanked eight or nine twice a year. If they're playing teams of one rank above them rather than the real big boys then that has to increase their standards as they will have some kind of chance in the game. Right now they don't go into matches trying to win - they go in trying to keep the score to five or less.

Teams can massively improve though. Whilst I wouldn't compare them in terms of population to a Gibraltar or San Marino, it wasn't long ago that Turkey were not much above that level in terms of standard. Growing up in England I distinctly remember a couple of cases in the 80s where England stuck seven in against them. Teams can only get better by competing and by being given opportunities.

Turkey is an example I always think of as well, Ireland murdered them once or twice also and they would have been seen as a soft touch for a long time.

Ultimately one of the problem with the suggested prequalifying tournament is that whilst it may be competitive for the lower teams it would have to be completed by September this year in order for the winner(s) to take their place amongst the big boys. So for the many losers their qualifying campaign for 2016 is over by August 2014 - no more competitive games for 24 months so not sure how that helps them either. (It would get them out from under our skin which would probably keep the usual posters happy).
Other problems include player release for these prequalifying games as they would be outside the normal window (and most of these countries have one or two players playing for a professional side in a decent league).

Theres actually a nuclear bomb solution which could be done for the newly expanded Euros which is to have the minnows group run concurrently with the main groups and guarantee a place in the finals for the winners of that minnows group. Asia does it with their equivalent of the Euros without the world falling in.

Paulegend

Beefy78 wrote: »

There's a balancing act to have. I'd definitely lean much more towards the side of the argument welcoming the smaller nations but I do think having some sort of pre-qualifying tournament for the very lowest ranked teams wouldn't be a bad idea. It can't do San Marino any good to be spanked eight or nine twice a year. If they're playing teams of one rank above them rather than the real big boys then that has to increase their standards as they will have some kind of chance in the game. Right now they don't go into matches trying to win - they go in trying to keep the score to five or less.

Teams can massively improve though. Whilst I wouldn't compare them in terms of population to a Gibraltar or San Marino, it wasn't long ago that Turkey were not much above that level in terms of standard. Growing up in England I distinctly remember a couple of cases in the 80s where England stuck seven in against them. Teams can only get better by competing and by being given opportunities.

well before they where allowed into this tournament they played small tournaments with similar sized "nations". the only way to progress is to get into these big games and make cash.

while it might seem pointless to you and i for them to go out and try not to get hammered by more than 5. top them they will be thinking "we have germany coming here" we will sell out our stadium and make a few million to put back into our local game" thats how they will improve. like turkey did. they got hammered but they used their cash to invest in building their game.

if they played in a pre tourny then they wouldnt have the same kind of cash days.

i dont see a problem with a "whipping boy" team in the group. their results dont count in terms of playoffs anyway. the only time it matters is how many goals poland scotland or ireland score against them

ArmaniJeanss

Paulegend wrote: »

i wouldnt put it past them to get better in 10-20 years down the line. since there is that political thing between them and spain and they are part of the britian (dont know if its commonwealth or some other thing), they have two great coutries there that will potentially have 'granny rule' players to filter in.

Definitely - I don't know the in and outs of how national qualification for Gibraltar is intended to work, but if the rules were to permit them to take granny rule players from the lower levels of England and Spain then they won't be pushovers.

Other advantages are that football is by some way their national sport, unlike the San Marinos and Andorras of this world. Whilst their population may be -10x that of Iceland I suspect their playing numbers would be closer to -3x and yet Iceland managed to reach a WC playoff.

eyescreamcone

As for Gibralter even being as good as Cyprus or kazakstan?
The respective populations would suggest that such a possibility is unlikely

Paulegend

eyescreamcone wrote: »

As for Gibralter even being as good as Cyprus or kazakstan?
The respective populations would suggest that such a possibility is unlikely

easy to solve. bring in the catholic church and outlaw condoms

20 years from now theyll have 5 or 6 times the population. rabbits they be breathing like. all ion the name of soccer mind

The_Kew_Tour

We have been doing that here fort past 20 years and its worse the football team is getting:pac:

eyescreamcone

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

We have been doing that here fort past 20 years and its worse the football team is getting:pac:

I hope you're joking.

We punch way above our weight in the international game.
It's got to the stage where are in the mix to qualify for each tournament.
In the last 3 tournaments we reached 2 playoffs, qualifying once.

For our size that's good going.

Paulegend

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I hope you're joking.

We punch way above our weight in the international game.
It's got to the stage where are in the mix to qualify for each tournament.
In the last 3 tournaments we reached 2 playoffs, qualifying once.

For our size that's good going.

we do and to be honest i think we can do better

mceady
mclean
pilkington
mccarthy
ireland

thats our attacking midfielders we can choose from. they are decent players who should be able to qualify for tournaments. not many nations (bar the obvious big guns) that can boast that amount of top class options.

even our defence is getting a little better with clarke and coleman

our strikers, center backs and keeping situation need work but by in large i think we have a decent amount of talent to choose from. we can and should be trying to do a belgium on it. but we need to invest in grassroots. delany needs to give half his pay even to the premier league prize fund so we can start having a more competitive league. we dont need to be a spain or france. we just need a league that can produce league 1 or championship standard players

Collie D

All teams have to start somewhere. I don't expect Gibraltar to get anywhere near to qualifying but as someone before me mentioned they may not be at a San Marino level either. Why deny these guys a place?

At what point do you say a nation is too small. Iceland has a small population but made the play-offs for World Cup. Montenegro are a newly formed nation but have held their own in their qualifying campaigns and wouldn;t be a huge shock if they got a to a play-off or better.

Whether Gibraltar is or is not an actual nation is off topic and to be honest I don't actually know their status.

Often hear pundits in Ireland and UK constantly question the point of letting small teams enter qualifying campaigns and any valid point they have disppears when come January they are sh*ting on about the "romance of the FA Cup"

eyescreamcone

Belgium don't always qualify :-/

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Gibraltar isn't a country and shouldn't really be in the competition, nor should Wales but they're there because of historical reasons. On the other hand , if Achill Island are included in the Euro 2024 draw I will have a chance to play international football myself so maybe it's not all bad. :pac:

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Gibraltar isn't a country and shouldn't really be in the competition, nor should Wales but they're there because of historical reasons. On the other hand , if Achill Island are included in the Euro 2024 draw I will have a chance to play international football myself so maybe it's not all bad. :pac:

Try telling a welshman they have no country

eyescreamcone

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Gibraltar isn't a country and shouldn't really be in the competition, nor should Wales but they're there because of historical reasons. On the other hand , if Achill Island are included in the Euro 2024 draw I will have a chance to play international football myself so maybe it's not all bad. :pac:

Gibralter just joined - what are the historical reasons??

eyescreamcone

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Try telling a welshman they have no country

Wales is a glorified county council, but should be left in for historical reasons.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Wales is a glorified county council, but should be left in for historical reasons.

As I said say that to a welshman he might just disagree with you

Idbatterim

If you look at the seedings below from the draw, even some of the 5th seed teams can play some decent football, its only the 6th seeds where it becomes a real massive gap in standard.

http://www.footballseeding.com/international-tournaments/euro-2016/

I hope you're joking.

We punch way above our weight in the international game.
It's got to the stage where are in the mix to qualify for each tournament.
In the last 3 tournaments we reached 2 playoffs, qualifying once.

For our size that's good going.
eyescreamcone is online now Report Post

This, the delusion or expectation here on these boards is ridiculous. Or how the team our team are put down so much. We punch well above our weight, what is success for us, Id say qualifying for a tournament, even reaching a play off could be deemed a success. What is reasonable to expect from a Germany or Spain? qualification? no that should be a given 100% of the time given their resources, Id say the semi of a major finals, unless they happen to hit another big gun earlier on in the knockout stage. The only team without a massive population in western europe that does far better than you would expect, is Holland, maybe to a lesser extent Portugal.

eyescreamcone

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

As I said say that to a welshman he might just disagree with you

He might disagree, but he'd be in the wrong!

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Gibralter just joined - what are the historical reasons??

England being the first FA and all that, if I explain it might look like I agree with them having a national team.

Gibralter isn't a country, it's either a tiny town belonging to the UK or possibly Spain at a stretch if your politics are aligned as such.
They will bring nothing to the competition.

irishmover

Gibraltar lose 4-1 to Faroe Islands in a friendly today. Play Estonia in a few days.