Nissan leaf breakdown

mmitche

samih wrote: »

OP, when I read about your trip back to Ireland from UK the distance per charge seemed really low. Maybe the two issues are related?

I suspect that you're spot on with your observation. The car didn't achieve the range expected during the trip. It has 30000 miles on the clock but can still charge to 97%.
I've been ringing the nissan garage daily and am getting a little concerned...
They do have an ev qualified technician there, who has had to complete several courses to achieve the certification. I suspect that this is a rare problem and there may be safety concerns if the battery really discharged the 36miles overnight.
I'd prefer to wait for a safe solution to this issue, but this long wait with no info is getting to me....
I work in a large tech company with 1000+ employees and I'm getting a bit of a slagging ...

Mick55

mmitche wrote: »

I suspect that you're spot on with your observation. The car didn't achieve the range expected during the trip. It has 30000 miles on the clock but can still charge to 97%.
I've been ringing the nissan garage daily and am getting a little concerned...
They do have an ev qualified technician there, who has had to complete several courses to achieve the certification. I suspect that this is a rare problem and there may be safety concerns if the battery really discharged the 36miles overnight.
I'd prefer to wait for a safe solution to this issue, but this long wait with no info is getting to me....
I work in a large tech company with 1000+ employees and I'm getting a bit of a slagging ...

Hi there, first of all OP I sympathize with your situation. Sounds massively frustrating, especially given the hostile weather of late! I think there are two sides to this. The customer service side and the technical side.

From a customer service end it sounds like you've been treated very poorly, I'm very surprised they didn't offer you a courtesy car or make any attempt to accommodate you.

From a technical point of view, there are diagnostic procedures to be followed when diagnosing these kind of problems. I'd imagine by this stage they would have them completed and most likely they don't have an answer! They could be trying any number of alternatives at the moment like remote diagnostics with Nissan Europe or alternative diagnostic procedures proposed by Nissan or... repeatedly turning it off and on!

kdouglas

kdouglas wrote: »

So it doesn't matter if it was a UK Import...

Never said it matters, there have often being cased where dealers would not honour warranties from imports, as they don't have to.

Mick55

Mick55 wrote: »

I worked as a Nissan mechanic for years coming up to the time when the Leaf was released, I worked with a large nationwide Nissan chain. It is company policy that anyone working on the Leaf must be certified, two technicians from my garage ( Most dealerships sent two technicians ) were sent to France for a week long intensive training course. They were tested on material and only when they passed this were they issued a cert to work on the Leaf.

The simple concept of testing a battery cell is simple yes but these cars are quite complex. They utilize CAN systems, body control modules and other components that can drain the battery and give conflicting faults.

I disagree with your statement 'I doubt the technicians are trained', the guys I worked with were very skilled mechanics, and I found from liaising with other garages in our network so were most of the rest.

Well yes they are complicated cars, and yes the systems are complicated. But diagnosis shouldn't take over a week.

Being certified is one thing and having the experience is another.

There have been a shortage of parts available which probably is the biggest issue.

Afaik a loan car is part of Nissan's warranty ? I'd be hammering them for a loan car !

positron

positron wrote: »

+1. mmitche's experience that he shares in places like this and other social media could totally undo millions worth of publicity campaigns for Nissan.

Nonsense, while the OP maybe being treated poorly, this is nothing new or that has not happened before with dealers.

The Leaf failed, but the Leaf is mainly a very reliable car and battery related issues are extremely rare.

positron

It's my personal opinion really. I have been following Leaf thru your posts and other early adopters here, and was always considering it as an option. I have never even seen a Leaf up close, and all my opinions so far is based on experiences posted here and other online reviews. And a situation like mmitche's - Leaf developing fault is fine, that happens with cars, but Nissan putting unreasonably poor conditions around it (an official dealer not giving standby car while fixing a car under warranty) reflects really poor - and I personally now feel that electric cars are still a good idea but Nissan sounds like a bad company to deal with. No amount of fancy advertertisement from Nissan could change my perspective that I form by reading owner stores in places like this. That's just me, but then again I don't think I am special or different in anyway, so I guess that would be case for a lot of others too.

mmitche

mmitche wrote: »

I suspect that you're spot on with your observation. The car didn't achieve the range expected during the trip. It has 30000 miles on the clock but can still charge to 97%.
I've been ringing the nissan garage daily and am getting a little concerned...
They do have an ev qualified technician there, who has had to complete several courses to achieve the certification. I suspect that this is a rare problem and there may be safety concerns if the battery really discharged the 36miles overnight.
I'd prefer to wait for a safe solution to this issue, but this long wait with no info is getting to me....
I work in a large tech company with 1000+ employees and I'm getting a bit of a slagging ...

This is good information and will be useful to Leaf owners who may experience the problem in the future.

This is a rare problem and no matter how qualified the technician on paper he/she needs to experience real problems to become good at their job.

They will repair it but what they are doing is their best to get out of installing a brand new battery but there should be spares in the U.K if they need one. Hopefully you will be lucky enough to get a brand new battery !

I am sure they know what the problem is but the problem I would say more than anything is the availability of parts.

Just go into the garage and ask to speak to the manager of the service department and calmly appreciate the time they are spending on it and you'd appreciate any information at all.

I doubt they don't know what the problem is by now.

Thoie

mmitche wrote: »

Not joking! I asked for a courtesy car and was told that there were none available. Out of exasperation after 10 days with no info I rang nissan European warranty today who said that they didn't need to provide car as they transported the faulty nissan leaf to the nissan centre..,,

I must admit, I expected a replacement car ......

To echo what everyone else has said, that would really put me off them - if my car is under warranty, I'd expect a courtesy car of some kind from them, particularly if it's going to take more than a day. I don't have a bike, and my commute without a car would be either €70+ in taxis each day, or 4 hours of public transport (including over an hour of walking) - that's why I have a car. I'd be kicking up a huge fuss with Nissan Ireland.

Mick55

Deleted User wrote: »

Well yes they are complicated cars, and yes the systems are complicated. But diagnosis shouldn't take over a week.

Being certified is one thing and having the experience is another.

There have been a shortage of parts available which probably is the biggest issue.

Afaik a loan car is part of Nissan's warranty ? I'd be hammering them for a loan car !

I agree about the car and the customer service, very poor.

The guys can only have so much experience as the car was only available on the European market since early 2011??

What good is putting in a new battery if its a software or hardware problem?

positron

positron wrote: »

but Nissan sounds like a bad company to deal with. No amount of fancy advertertisement from Nissan could change my perspective that I form by reading owner stores in places like this. That's just me, but then again I don't think I am special or different in anyway, so I guess that would be case for a lot of others too.

Poor service isn't unique to Nissan for heavens sake, poor service from main dealers is rampant throughout Ireland, obviously there are very good ones too. But we let big businesses away with murder here.

Scottie99

My experience with Nissan was a positive one. Our Leaf was due a service, because of work commitments I was unable to get the car serviced during the week. They suggested I bring the car in at the weekend and take away one of their cars for a few days.

positron

Deleted User wrote: »

Poor service isn't unique to Nissan for heavens sake, poor service from main dealers is rampant throughout Ireland, obviously there are very good ones too. But we let big businesses away with murder here.

I guess a bad experience with Leaf is more than a bad experience with say Fiesta because there are only a handful of Leafs and Leaf owners out there, unlike Fiestas. Multiply that by another random number as Leaf is based on an emerging technology. Anywhoo, it's my personal opinion, and it's not wise to expect everyone to agree to my own opinion, so lets just leave it at that.

Sesshoumaru

unkel wrote: »

You'd have thought it'd be easy to diagnose a single faulty battery module? It makes no sense that it required an engineer from Japan to fly in to come to that conclusion.

Correct. They wanted to know exactly why it went faulty. It seemed it was a really big deal to them. I think this was the one and only case of a module going bad in Europe. If I remember correctly it was eventually sent back to Japan for a deep dive investigation. There was a report at the end detailing their findings, it was reassuring to see they took it so seriously.

Sesshoumaru

mmitche wrote: »

I suspect that you're spot on with your observation. The car didn't achieve the range expected during the trip. It has 30000 miles on the clock but can still charge to 97%.
I've been ringing the nissan garage daily and am getting a little concerned...
They do have an ev qualified technician there, who has had to complete several courses to achieve the certification. I suspect that this is a rare problem and there may be safety concerns if the battery really discharged the 36miles overnight.
I'd prefer to wait for a safe solution to this issue, but this long wait with no info is getting to me....
I work in a large tech company with 1000+ employees and I'm getting a bit of a slagging ...

Have you joined the 'Irish EV Owners' group on Facebook yet? We have 156 members now. I'd post your story there and perhaps some fellow Leaf owners can help you apply some peer pressure to Nissan Ireland (or the specific dealer?). Just an idea! If it was a dealer I know someone in, I'd certainly make a phone call or send an email for you!

SleeperService

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Disciplines_Problem_Solving or similar process. Aimed seshmarous story about previous leaf investigation.

SleeperService

SleeperService wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Disciplines_Problem_Solving or similar process.

LOL that's (so) American !

In the U.S there have been issues with heaters on the MK I which took several weeks to rectify due to the lack of availability of parts.

SO I'm still convinced that the issue is more to do with the lack of available spares. Diagnosis doesn't take over a week and also due to lack of technician experience. This isn't running down the technicians but you do need practical experience you can only learn so much on any course.

Sesshoumaru

Deleted User wrote: »

In the U.S there have been issues with heaters on the MK I which took several weeks to rectify due to the lack of availability of parts.

SO I'm still convinced that the issue is more to do with the lack of available spares. Diagnosis doesn't take over a week and also due to lack of technician experience. This isn't running down the technicians but you do need practical experience you can only learn so much on any course.

This was posted up in Irish EV Owners a few weeks ago.

http://www.torquenews.com/1080/nissan-leafs-achilles-heel-exposed

With all of that, the Nissan LEAF is still the most dominant BEV both globally and in the U.S. But it still has one big Achilles Heel it must overcome.
Nope, it's not range anxiety, battery issues, or styling. It's not price or efficiency either. It's not even lack of infrastructure.
Nope, it's problem is parts availability.
You see, the LEAF has now been on the market for three years. Owners who originally leased the car in 2010/11 are now beginning to trade them in for new models, but some are abandoning the car because of this issue. In trolling forums, I've seen countless complaints about how long a car can sit and wait for the simplest of parts from Nissan. Why?

Because for all their production capacity, Nissan still cannot keep up with demand and has thus allocated nearly all of the parts being built for the LEAF to go into new cars, not dealer inventories for replacements.
This means that even the slightest ding or wreck can mean weeks, even months waiting for replacement parts. One Nissan LEAF owner recently posted in a forum about her accident and the FOUR MONTHS of wait just to get a simple wiring harness replacement for the charge port that had been crushed. Another had three months of repairs, most of which was waiting for body panels after a stop light run-in. Yet another owner had two months of waiting for a door panel replacement for a broken side mirror from an errant bicyclist.
- See more at: http://www.torquenews.com/1080/nissan-leafs-achilles-heel-exposed#sthash.Iw8H0Gg5.dpuf

I'm not sure how relevant it is to the European market. But it might be a factor in the long wait the op is having (doesn't excuse lack of courtesy car though!). Our Leaf had a minor incident when the passenger side mirror got swiped off, we were told a new replacement mirror would take a couple of days. In the OPs case it might be waiting for a new battery module?

Might not be the battery, some BMS related issue either, The factory is close in the U.K but all those parts are for the MK 1.5 as all the MK I were made in Japan. Same with the U.S factory, it makes the Mk 1.5.

In some cases a failed BMS can kill the battery, time will tell.

I would loved to have plugged in the leaf Spy dongle to see what it would have shown, might be a very useful tool for any future 2nd hand Leaf buyers !

I do hope the OP gets a good technical explanation to share with us and for other forums. A good print out of parts too on the receipt.

SleeperService

[Deleted User] wrote: »

LOL that's (so) American !

may you never know the hassle of being involved in an automotive 8D! Far from LOL!

Notch000

on a side note do you have to rent the batteries on these leafs ??

Notch000

Notch000 wrote: »

on a side note do you have to rent the batteries on these leafs ??

NO, and we're not even given the option in Ireland.

However, by the time you add up the cost of rental you'll have paid for it either way.

Most people will flog a brand new car by the time the warranty has expired, and so I don't expect the battery to fail within this time at all so there is no point renting it, but it should be an option for 2nd hand buyers.

kdouglas

[Deleted User] wrote: »

NO, and we're not even given the option in Ireland.

However, by the time you add up the cost of rental you'll have paid for it either way.

Most people will flog a brand new car by the time the warranty has expired, and so I don't expect the battery to fail within this time at all so there is no point renting it, but it should be an option for 2nd hand buyers.

I'm not a fan of the battery lease option myself. It negates the fuel savings of operating an electric vehicle and although it makes the initial purchase price cheaper id rather own the vehicle outright and do what I want with it rather than be stuck paying a battery lease indefinitely.

Granted though, if you're buying new and plan to sell after a couple of years, battery lease is with considering but I'd be concerned about trying to sell a car privately with a battery lease.

I honestly think now anyone buying new should seriously consider PCP rather than normal HP or bank loan. The monthly repayments are considerably lower. That is of courseif you want to keep buying new.

Though on a car loan form a bank you could go over 5 years with much lower monthly payment, though you can't trade it and top up the loan you got to pay the bank loan completely before they will give you more.

I think on finance you can pay over 5 years trade and refinance the new car ?

But leasing the battery while it makes the car cheaper you could end up paying a lot more after the car is paid off.

You'd have to calculate the cost with and without the battery and add up the leasing over the miles you need.

TBH If I were buying a brand new leaf this year I'd considering PCP if I were fortunate enough to be within the max miles allowed because the MK II is due in 2017 but Nissan could offer different battery options within this current model generation.

kdouglas

kdouglas wrote: »

Granted though, if you're buying new and plan to sell after a couple of years, battery lease is with considering but I'd be concerned about trying to sell a car privately with a battery lease.

No it makes less sense if you intend to get rid of it after a few years because the initial manufacturers warranty will cover defects for 60,000 miles or 5 years I think it is.

I wouldn't have much issue if I could get a Leaf for 8k or less leasing a battery because i know once it reaches 70% they will install a brand new battery where as it stands now they will only replace to in or around 70% which is useless. That and the fact the car will still drive much better than any ice car with high mileage, sure all suspension related issues still apply but in general motor and electronics wise they should be pretty reliable if the prius is anything to go by or Steve Marsh's leaf in Seattle with over 100,000 miles.

70 % may be the industry standard idea of end of life in the battery makers world but not in a car with 80 odd miles range from new.

Unknown Soldier

Jaysus!

if I bought a car off a Nissan outlet and I was treated like this by them I'd be well p155ed off!

Bad service isn't unique to Nissan.

Old diesel

Scottie99 wrote: »

My experience with Nissan was a positive one. Our Leaf was due a service, because of work commitments I was unable to get the car serviced during the week. They suggested I bring the car in at the weekend and take away one of their cars for a few days.

Fantastic - but this is exactly what should have happened with OP - Nissan should be falling over themselves to get OP back on the road - even if that meant getting a hire car from Hertz or Avis - at Nissans expense.

Yes that would mean extra fuel costs for OP compared to his/her electric car - but that's something that could be addressed - the priority should be a) keeping OP on the road and b) getting to the bottom of the issue with the OPs Leaf

Old diesel

Old diesel wrote: »

Fantastic - but this is exactly what should have happened with OP - Nissan should be falling over themselves to get OP back on the road - even if that meant getting a hire car from Hertz or Avis - at Nissans expense.

Yes that would mean extra fuel costs for OP compared to his/her electric car - but that's something that could be addressed - the priority should be a) keeping OP on the road and b) getting to the bottom of the issue with the OPs Leaf

The alternative option is to keep a number of Leafs in the country CENTRALLY to be delivered to customers whose Leaf is off the road.

Especially if theres issues with parts supply - if the customer has a replacement LEAF for the duration of their own Leafs been off the road - a delay in parts arriving isn't such an issue - they are at least on the road - in a Leaf

Unknown Soldier

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

Jaysus!

if I bought a car off a Nissan outlet and I was treated like this by them I'd be well p155ed off!

I am a little wiser now and I see it is an import. I withdraw my previous comment.