The farcical state of renting in Dublin

davyy77

HI

I am just using this to vent my anger at how Dublin has reached fever pitches with the cost of renting. I am currently looking to move but I honestly can't get over how much places are going for,the minute interest is registered the price suddenly goes up like 200 euro.

It's so disheartening not to mind the 60 odd people showing up to see a place. It seems now also a good old reference does not suffice they are looking for bank statements, pps,passport not to mention being told where you work is the seal dealer..where is the line drawn???

I can't understand how a cap can't be put on certain areas! Be interested in other people's view, advise...Its does seem that panic has set in Dublin and estate agents and landlords will utilise to there advantage greed...greed and more greed!!!

the groutch

The farcical state of your spelling :pac:

But anyway, it's an open market and landlords will charge as much as people are willing to pay.

davyy77

the groutch wrote: »

The farcical state of your spelling :pac:

But anyway, it's an open market and landlords will charge as much as people are willing to pay.

My bad!!!
Anyway I just think it's a joke is all

davo10

davyy77 wrote: »

My bad!!!
Anyway I just think it's a joke is all

So what you are saying is, two people view a house, one is willing to pay more than the other, the owner should rent to the one who is willing to pay less. Brilliant business strategy.

Michael D Not Higgins

davo10 wrote: »

So what you are saying is, two people view a house, one is willing to pay more than the other, the owner should rent to the one who is willing to pay less. Brilliant business strategy.

No he wants that situation but instead of the owner renting to the one willing to pay less, he wants the government to issue a rent cap and force the landlord to rent it for less.

Plenty of better ways for the government to control the spiraling prices.

davyy77

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

No he wants that situation but instead of the owner renting to the one willing to pay less, he wants the government to issue a rent cap and force the landlord to rent it for less.

Plenty of better ways for the government to control the spiraling prices.

Exactly,of course if going get more money a landlord will take it, we went to a viewing for a place mediocre at best for 1400 went up to 1600 just because people showed interest!

Michael D Not Higgins

davyy77 wrote: »

Exactly,of course if going get more money a landlord will take it, we went to a viewing for a place mediocre at best for 1400 went up to 1600 just because people showed interest!

Supply and demand. Landlords are running a business, not a housing charity.

neckedit

davyy77 wrote: »

Exactly,of course if going get more money a landlord will take it, we went to a viewing for a place mediocre at best for 1400 went up to 1600 just because people showed interest!

The price is going up as idiots make offers not the LL or agent putting them up....was viewing a wee house last week....on the market for e1100.....not to bad said I......overheard a couple in the kitchen......Male says......"I really want this place....we should go to 1350e"......they were first to talk to LL, I over heard no negociating......they went straight in at e1350......couldnt believe what Id heard.....will we never learn.

lima

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Supply and demand. Landlords are running a business, not a housing charity.

Typical response of greed who doesn't see the point this person is making.

The Govt has created a situation where rentals and houses for sale are critically restricted and because of this, landlords are licking lips and trying to take as much money as possible from the young.


Landlords will always be stingey money counters, but the govt is really to blame

The_Conductor

lima wrote: »

Typical response of greed who doesn't see the point this person is making.

The Govt has created a situation where rentals and houses for sale are critically restricted and because of this, landlords are licking lips and trying to take as much money as possible from the young.


Landlords will always be stingey money counters, but the govt is really to blame

Landlords aren't 'stingey money counters' they are running a business, like any other business.

The government has abdicated its responsibility to house people to the private sector- and allowed its stock of council housing evaporate (partially by making it very favourable for tenants to purchase the units, partially by not insisting on the social housing elements of planning applications during the boom years).

We have a situation where supply has become incredibly constrained in Dublin, Cork and Galway- and simple economics dictate that where supply is constrained, prices increase until a new equilibrium is reached.

In the last week plans to expand housing units in West Dublin were scaled back at two locations (to prevent the development of ghost estates- according to South Dublin Co. Co. and Fingal Co. Co.)- where the actual fact is- there is already very high occupancy rates and any estate agents/realtors in the area are advising of zero supply.

Government policy seems to be running scared of any hint of anything that may indicate a boost in supply- obviously so they can't be accused of doing something to create a new bubble- but the side effect being- supply is so constrained as to be non-existent.

Certain urban areas critically need more construction- of high density, high quality housing units, with appropriate facilities and amenities to service them. Already we have farcical situations in Dublin and Galway cities and counties- where even if there were more developments- anyone bringing up kids could face 50-60 mile round trips, to find school places for children......

There is a complete and utter lack of joined up thinking.

The presence of ghost estates in the midlands/west/north-west is the tail thats wagging the dog and preventing planning for critically needed developments especially in the Dublin/Cork/Galway (and a few other) urban areas.

Blaming landlords is all well and good- the fact of the matter is they control a critical resource in incredible constraint.

Get onto Enda and tell him people want to live in Dublin/Cork/Galway- and his ghost estate in Westport/Tullamore/Carrick-on-Shannon/Portlaoise etc- really are anamolies- they shouldn't have been allowed in the first instance- however using their now existence to punish people in the major urban areas- is some perverse logic akin to 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' as the expression goes.

Its not landlord's faults- you can bring in price controls to your hearts consent- however if you go down this road- you need to study what happens in similar situations elsewhere to see what the likely side effects may be......... Have any of you tried renting in Berlin or Paris, even in less salubrious suburbs? If you think things are bad here, spending a few days in either city is a bit of an eye opener.

Michael D Not Higgins

lima wrote: »

Typical response of greed who doesn't see the point this person is making.

The Govt has created a situation where rentals and houses for sale are critically restricted and because of this, landlords are licking lips and trying to take as much money as possible from the young.


Landlords will always be stingey money counters, but the govt is really to blame

The renters themselves are boosting the price. Rent caps won't work and the government have plenty of better ways of dealing with the situation.

MouseTail

The_Conductor wrote: »

We have a situation where supply has become incredibly constrained in Dublin, Cork and Galway- and simple economics dictate that where supply is constrained, prices increase until a new equilibrium is reached.

In the last week plans to expand housing units in West Dublin were scaled back at two locations (to prevent the development of ghost estates- according to South Dublin Co. Co. and Fingal Co. Co.)- where the actual fact is- there is already very high occupancy rates and any estate agents/realtors in the area are advising of zero supply.

Government policy seems to be running scared of any hint of anything that may indicate a boost in supply- obviously so they can't be accused of doing something to create a new bubble- but the side effect being- supply is so constrained as to be non-existent
.

That's shocking. There must be more to it, their own Development Plans talk of the critical need for housing and infrastructure for a rapidly rising population, and they certainly need the levies.

Perhaps you are right, politicians scarred by legacy issues, terrified to turn on the supply tap, or interfere in the property market for fear of a repeat of recent problems. Truth is we are more akin to late 90s than the bubble years now in terms of supply and the level of heat in the sector. Who would dare to suggest incentives for building.

Arthur Beesley

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Plenty of better ways for the government to control the spiraling prices.

And some are probably legal. But not this one.

spank_inferno

We are building housing units at a rate akin to the late 70s when the population was 60% it is now.

It was never going to take long for market prices to rise as a result.

The capital needs more houses.

The_Conductor

spank_inferno wrote: »

We are building housing units at a rate akin to the late 70s when the population was 60% it is now.

It was never going to take long for market prices to rise as a result.

The capital needs more houses.

However- there are a few different factors at play here.
The Irish have never gotten used to high-density living- which is what is required in the major urban areas, whether people like it or not.
Councils are pandering to special interest groups- and indeed even at this stage, changing the density of pre-existing planning permissions, to reflect these lower density units (look at what happened in Adamstown last week- SDCC are to allow a far higher number of townhouses, in lieu of apartments- when this part of West Dublin currently has zero units advertised in local estate agencies.)

Its all- 'not in my backyard' and parochial politics at play- along with councils sticking their thumbs in their nose up to the Dept. of the Environment.

We are a little country- and we need to plan for the country as a whole- instead we have the likes of Westport and Carrick-on-Shannon torpedoing legitimate development in the major urban areas.

We need joined up thinking- not this populist crap- where every politician is pandering to his or her local constituents.

spank_inferno

So...... More houses or less houses?

gaius c

I've posted this before and people need to become aware that Ireland is becoming a test laboratory of sorts.

Two words: foreclosure stuffing

The contraction of supply, both rental and sales, is entirely artificial.

cson

Simple Capitalist supply and demand economics in the market. That being said; the floor rent allowance puts on the market shouldn't be there either if we're not putting a ceiling on what you can pay for a rental.

Btw OP; some places were looking for previous Landlord ref's + work ref's + bank statements + passports back when we were looking in Sept/Oct 2011. Competition was insane then too; only reason we got our place is because we bid on it (+150 p/m over what was being asked - was undervalued though because I'd built up a lot of knowledge at that time as to what market rates were in different areas). We also had copies of all of the above in a pack ready to go along with a cheque for a deposit.

Basic fact is all the jobs are in Dublin now and the Capital is carrying the country, much the same way London is carrying the UK.

I put it to the forum (in a thread that bombed!) a week or so back that this could be the year we see cranes popping up in Dublin again. Institutional investors can only ignore the yields in Dublin for so long.

Ray Palmer

There is a solution that would solve two huge problem and other issues too. Encourage the retired people to move out of the well serviced properties that are designed for families. Currently we have huge amount of housing stock under utilized. 3-5 bedroom houses all around Dublin have 1 or 2 people living in them.
Mean while many of these people are cash poor and have poor pensions. Asset rich cash poor.
Build housing specifically for retired people with auxiliary business connected. A few retired people on one road could get amazing property build with paid services for a long time. I am talking building in the area rather than far away from their communities. Less resistance to high rise building if it assisting the locals.
Once you have more families in the areas the schools can be utilised better along with all the other family friendly services.

There are many way it could be done and you would have older people staying in their community. Builders could do it on their own, the state could encourage it with incentives or just do it themselves. The houses on my parents road have about at 20% use of capacity but is really well serviced.

As for rent caps absolutely pointless and in fact damaging. You would end up with less encouragement to build property. We need more property built to house people.

cson

A nice idea but culturally you'll never get retired folk to abandon their houses. This is something they've worked for all their lives and the majority will want to leave those legacy gains to their children.

jane82

Ray Palmer wrote: »

There is a solution that would solve two huge problem and other issues too. Encourage the retired people to move out of the well serviced properties that are designed for families. Currently we have huge amount of housing stock under utilized. 3-5 bedroom houses all around Dublin have 1 or 2 people living in them.
Mean while many of these people are cash poor and have poor pensions. Asset rich cash poor.
Build housing specifically for retired people with auxiliary business connected. A few retired people on one road could get amazing property build with paid services for a long time. I am talking building in the area rather than far away from their communities. Less resistance to high rise building if it assisting the locals.
Once you have more families in the areas the schools can be utilised better along with all the other family friendly services.

There are many way it could be done and you would have older people staying in their community. Builders could do it on their own, the state could encourage it with incentives or just do it themselves. The houses on my parents road have about at 20% use of capacity but is really well serviced.

As for rent caps absolutely pointless and in fact damaging. You would end up with less encouragement to build property. We need more property built to house people.

Sounds very like nurseing homes.

Ray Palmer

cson wrote: »

A nice idea but culturally you'll never get retired folk to abandon their houses. This is something they've worked for all their lives and the majority will want to leave those legacy gains to their children.

They aren't abandoning their houses and it doesn't need to be them all just a portion . Retired people do down size all the time. This is just a way to make it easier and better for everybody. You could even convert a few houses in an estate so they don't even move street.
If something isn't done many of these houses will end up split and rented out either way. The family houses of the past will some be too large for people to afford but viable as two separate rented properties. It has already started near me.

odds_on

jane82 wrote: »

Sounds very like nurseing homes.

Not at all. The UK has a great amount of apartment blocks, all over England and Wales, that cater for people over 50, 55 and 60 years of age. They are designed for independent living.

These blocks have a communal living room and each apartment (usually one or two bed) has emergency pull cords or bell buttons which are connected to either a central point within the complex or to a privately run emergency control centre. Visitors are welcome and within the complex, there are several dedicated "visitor" apartments which can be used, by reservation, by visiting family or friends.

It amazes me that there are not more in this country. Here, any that I have come across are usually attached to nursing homes with associated elevated charges. Not that many retired people require such facilities.

So, now I have an apartment, in a country town, which has excellent transport connections with Dublin. I must say that I am not particularly fond of the town but I do appreciate the easy travel facilities and the particular estate in which my apartment block is situated. Excellent grounds, well maintained - we could do with some more retired people here!

gaius c

cson wrote: »

Simple Capitalist supply and demand economics in the market. That being said; the floor rent allowance puts on the market shouldn't be there either if we're not putting a ceiling on what you can pay for a rental.

No it isn't. Real capitalism would see people not repaying their loans having the security repossessed and sold for what the market will bear.

The fact that only a tiny portion of housing stock is genuinely for sale is distorting prices in the same way that 0.2% of AIB shares being tradable is distorting those prices (AIB valued at €80 billion? yeah right). However, unlike shares, you can't short houses.

Basic fact is all the jobs are in Dublin now and the Capital is carrying the country, much the same way London is carrying the UK.

Dublin is the 33rd or 34th largest city in Europe, in a bankrupt country on the western seaboard of Europe. Take away the tax sheltering, double Irish, etc and a large portion of those jobs will disappear. Tax "harmonisation" is going to be the price demanded for the eventual write down on our sovereign debt.

I put it to the forum (in a thread that bombed!) a week or so back that this could be the year we see cranes popping up in Dublin again. Institutional investors can only ignore the yields in Dublin for so long.

With what money? 50% of the market is cash only. Our banks are zombies, alive in name only and foreign banks have no interest in exposing themselves to our "repayment is optional" lending system.

P.S. Finfacts have pointed out that while vacancy in Dublin city is currently around 5%, it was half that for much of the 90's with none of the panic we are seeing right now. Our young people are emigrating, thus balancing out much of the inward migration we are seeing. We actually don't need as many new houses as certain vested interests are making out.

TheDoc

Having same issues with the OP.

Thankfully a house went up for rent yesterday, girlfriend pounced, and I'd all the required references in quickly.
As ODD as it is to say, I'm confident and hopefull. Turns out she knows the estate agent form school so he will put in a good word, and the landlord has expressed a desire to have an Irish couple, preferably family. With baby on the way, we seem to fit the bill.

So I'm hoping for some good news today or tomorrow. But it has been mental.

I dropped herself to look at another house we arranged a viewing for this morning. I took the morning of work ( so have to stay late) to view the house. Arrive and the landlord is there, packing and the place looks a state. Estate agent was highly embarrased and when I asked what the story is, landlord said "sorry pal, doing some work this morning , doesn't suit to see".

"Yeah no worries, but we arranged a viewing a week ago, bit of notice would have been nice, I'm after taking time of work to come down and look".

"Not my problem is it?"

"I'm sure it's not, good luck renting the place" Into the car and off we went. If he can't organise himself for a viewing for people who are potentially going to hand him €1100 a month, I'm not prepared to give that sort of moron my money. Simple as. As much as people say the landlords have the rue of the roost, I wish more tenants were stronger in terms of walking away. Way too much panic buying going on at the moment.

Last two times we moved it was a stress free process, this time around it's absolute mental stuff going on. I've never subscribed to the "cowboy landlord" stereotype cause I've only experienced top class landlords, and never had to go through an estate agent. But the last three weeks have really opened my eyes to the shoddy stuff that goes on.

Fingers crossed we get word back on the house we saw yesterday. Week to go before we are out of current apartment. Wouldn't have any stress if another landlord didn't pull a sly one for an extra few quid.

Not agreeing with a cap, or playing poverty, I'm fully capable of paying my way. But out of principle when I've been present in these bidding wars and auctions I've walked away. While Fully appreciate there is issues with supply meeting demand ergo raising prices, but that doesn't mean I have to accept paying over the odds.
Happy to let desperate people get themselves into stupid rent agreements/payments.

Although I have a rather "it's grand we will be fine" attitude, it's always seemed to pay off with just being big enough to not snap up the first thing that comes my way

Joe Doe

Solution:

1. Push up salaries even higher to pay for rents going up and thus induce another economic boom spiral.

2. Build.

2a. Upwards: arrays of 70+ story multi-use self-sufficient skyscrapers with small footprints featuring 'Nanotech-Enhanced Concrete & Next-Gen Steel'. Ideally on North side with mirrored surfaces to reduce sun-blockage.

2a. New: Hows about a new self-sustaining* massive major urban settlement^, in the geo-centre of Ireland at 8° Meridian West & 53°30' North Lat. Serving all other cities on island via 360mph magnetic pulse trains.

*Think Jacque Fresco.
^Think Dubai.

murphaph

Dubai with Athlone weather.

Joe Doe

There is a range of solutions to that minor issue also via macro-weather modification:

"The small Norwegian town of Rjukan is getting its own artificial sun this month. Engineers are completing The Mirror Project—a system of three 300 square foot heliostatic mirrors that redirect winter light into the valley, turning one of the biggest town squares into a sunny meeting place. The entire mechanism is controlled by a central computer that adjusts the position of the mirrors."

// The cost of a new major innovative urban centre would repay itself through base infrastructural enhancements, national production efficiency, and even roll-offs diverse as building patents and tourism off the back of it.

I'm presuming the state employs a small quango of futurologists and already have random bluesky ideas such as this on their notepads. Somebody saw we do...(please)

OldNotWIse

I've heard that some people are turning up and offering more rent too

jane82

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I've heard that some people are turning up and offering more rent too

Yep I have had a couple of landlords ringing and telling me they got offered more and would I match it.
Two years ago I said no and he said ok its yours. I reckon he was chancing his arm.

Santa Cruz

Rent control is no use without control of other services.