The farcical state of renting in Dublin

dinnyirwin

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Realistically, they are not. That's why I say is perceived. It seems to them like an unfair punishment, to go x years with a certain rent and then have it increased after a cost they didn't cause is incurred. But you are right, if they objectively look at they will be appreciative of the money they saved not paying market rate for the x years and understand that it couldn't last forever. It's just human factors at play, hence why you get bashed by some posters here.

It cant be perceived if they are not comparing it to someone else getting different treatment from the same person.

Remember as far as any tenant is concerned they are the only one i rent to.
The agent, who has many properties from many landlords to let, just tells the person after the year is up "hey, its time for a rent review, but your landlord has said that since he hanst had to spend any money or deal with any issues, he is happy to leave the rent as is. He said he will review it if there are any problems that cost him."

Im assuming that tenant is thinking. "Oh, rents have gone up about €50pm. That kettle i was about to ask to be replaced, i think i'll buy one in tesco for €15". If the heating goes, then they have to contact me anyway, but they still dont pay more than they should have been anyway until then.

I dont even know what is said between the agent and the tenant. And I like it that way. The agent who i trust now at this stage deals with everything very well for me, and i trust that when he has to come to me its serious.

Each bank treats you differently, but you would only feel hard done by if the same bank treated you different to another customer. Yet different customers get different rates for example based on their risk, from the same bank. But unless you know someone exactly the same as you getting treated differently from the same bank, you have no frame of reference.

The_Morrigan

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Well the tenants don't know he is using the system, so they are not going to be scared to contact him. If the rent does then increase, they won't know it's because of the call- it is just a bringing of the rent to the market rate and is not linked to any action they took, and they have no way of knowing why he chose to do it at the time he does it.

They do after the first year....

dinnyirwin wrote: »

I dont deal with them personally, but i instruct the agent to tell them after the first year, if they are good tenants, that the market rate is now x, but since they have not needed to call me about anything im happy to leave the rent as is.

I dont allow tenants to paint themselves. I had bad experiences with that in the past. Everyone thinks they cant paint - they cant.

So if they call the agent and say they want the place painted the agent will decide if it needs painting - if it doesnt, i never hear about it and if it does call the agent calls me. Then it will be painted and the finances have to be examined again for that property.

dinnyirwin

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Your first post above you state that if the tenant costs you time or money for any reason at all they are put no your list.
The issue that I have with your system is that if a 'good tenant' doesn't get in touch with you for fearing a rent increase that it could be more costly for you. There has to be a balance of when a tenant can and should be contacting you regardless of cost/time to you - it is your business that you are trying to protect and if your tenants are scared to contact you or your agents for fear of a rent increase then that isn't very good for business.

My example was around insurance, which only you can deal with as the interested party. If the tenants contact you to keep you up to date with a potential risk to your property are they then put on the list for rent review because you have to do your job and contact your insurance company to adhere to the 'full disclosure' that all policies operate under.

Ah insurance. One of the reasons I do apartments only now. Apartments are so much easier insurance wise. Houses are a nightmare with insurance.

Again, issues will come out either when the tenant comes to the agent with it, or during the next inspection visit. My relationship with the agent has been built up over many years and i trust him. He lessens my workload too, which is what he is paid for.

I think i have already given answered to the rest of your post.

And im going out so will leave the thread before the bas the greedy landlords people come on and they did in another thread when i was making the same points. I think ive answered everything. People may not agree with me, but i think what i do is fair and it serves me well, and at the end of the day im in it to make money.

The_Morrigan

dinnyirwin wrote: »

Ah insurance. One of the reasons I do apartments only now. Apartments are so much easier insurance wise. Houses are a nightmare with insurance.

Again, issues will come out either when the tenant comes to the agent with it, or during the next inspection visit. My relationship with the agent has been built up over many years and i trust him. He lessens my workload too, which is what he is paid for.

I think i have already given answered to the rest of your post.

And im going out so will leave the thread before the bas the greedy landlords people come on and they did in another thread when i was making the same points. I think ive answered everything. People may not agree with me, but i think what i do is fair and it serves me well, and at the end of the day im in it to make money.

You haven't, you've avoided it wholeheartedly, but anyway...

I'm not playing the greedy landlord card, I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying, but you seem to also hit up your tenants for contacting you or your agent to help you protect your asset, which I think is unfair.

MouseTail

The_Morrigan wrote: »

I also think that a lot of new renters are naive when it comes to practical issues - this could be overcome by a good agent going through practical things onsite. Like pointing out where the mains water and gas are turned off. How to reset a tripped switch or change a fuse. How to bleed radiators etc. These skills are learnt, often by error and agents probably should include this in their handing over the keys, sign the lease appointment in the property.

Ah come on!! If someone has moved put of their parents house not knowing any of these basic things, a quick Google, YouTube, basic DIY book etc will solve the problem. Sure they could be on 2 days training with the Agent covering every scenario.

dinnyirwin

The_Morrigan wrote: »

You haven't, you've avoided it wholeheartedly, but anyway...

I'm not playing the greedy landlord card, I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying, but you seem to also hit up your tenants for contacting you or your agent to help you protect your asset, which I think is unfair.

OK last post on it then im watching the rugby.
Insurance is not an issue at all.
I am doing nothing unfair to anyone. Nobody ends up worse off than any normal tenant. Many people end up better off. My agents job is to run the properties and only come to me when there is a major issue. Cost or emergency would be the only times he comes to me. He does a good job. My assets are protected adequately.

lima

cookie1977 wrote: »

To be honest I wished the government had put the property tax liability on renters too. They live in the area it services so they should be liable. And as has been said even if they're not the landlord will look at adding the cost to the rents anyway.

isn't that council tax in the UK?

Is it a property owners tax of a property tax?

taytothief

Don't hate the players, hate the game!

The_Morrigan

MouseTail wrote: »

Ah come on!! If someone has moved put of their parents house not knowing any of these basic things, a quick Google, YouTube, basic DIY book etc will solve the problem. Sure they could be on 2 days training with the Agent covering every scenario.

2 days???
When I bought my place the foreman had to do a quick tour of the place to let me know where the gas mains switch was, the meters for ESB/Bord Gais, the mains water, where the fusebox was etc.
It takes 20 minutes...

A lot of people have never had to encounter this type of responsibility before because their parents have done it. I know that you can go to youtube and google, but people panic especially when it's not their house and a quick run through wouldn't go astray.

Electric Sheep

pinkmonkey045 wrote: »

For people starting out in their careers, the possibility of buying a house is nil unless you win the lotto (I hold out hope!). But thank you for the consideration that 'the rent is the price we pay for not buying', you pleasant individual.

What I see in my peers (20 somethings) is that Dublin has a generation of people who are 'failing to launch' that is, to get out of the parents gaff/ returning to parents gaff.
Thinking of renting a 2 bed with your best mate? Forget it pals! Unless you have 800 each a month, and that's before the bidding war at viewing?!!!

If you're making entry level money (25k, 30k) you won't be renting and saving that's for sure. So how can you save for the deposit for a house?

I'm not sure how it could get any worse at this point as it's so horrendously bad right now??? Are people secretly making small fortunes to afford this rent??

It was always like that for young people starting out, apart from the Celtic Bubble blip. When I got my first job in Dublin, I certainly could not afford to rent a 2 bedroom apartment with one friend. There were five of us in a 2 bedroom flat with no heating. Then Five in a three bedroom house.

As for buying a house at that age, it was way more out of reach than now. Buying as a young single person was almost unknown.

MouseTail

The_Morrigan wrote: »

2 days???
When I bought my place the foreman had to do a quick tour of the place to let me know where the gas mains switch was, the meters for ESB/Bord Gais, the mains water, where the fusebox was etc.
It takes 20 minutes...

A lot of people have never had to encounter this type of responsibility before because their parents have done it. I know that you can go to youtube and google, but people panic especially when it's not their house and a quick run through wouldn't go astray.

but did he also show you how to bleed a radiator, fit a washer, change the shower hose, reset the boiler etc. LLs are called upon to do these things and there is a cost associated with that.

cookie1977

The_Morrigan wrote: »

2 days???
When I bought my place the foreman had to do a quick tour of the place to let me know where the gas mains switch was, the meters for ESB/Bord Gais, the mains water, where the fusebox was etc.
It takes 20 minutes...

A lot of people have never had to encounter this type of responsibility before because their parents have done it. I know that you can go to youtube and google, but people panic especially when it's not their house and a quick run through wouldn't go astray.

My apartment came with a manual. So we copied it and when we began renting it out we handed it over to the tenants. I dont necessarily behave exactly like dinny but thinking about it now when we do get good tenants (pay on time, dont contact us unless necessarily, keep the place in tact when we do our annual inspection) I'm reluctant to up the rent (even with the current renters after the intro of the property tax). Good tenants are worth their weight in gold. I've never had to get rid of a tenant but those that have contacted me about every little thing (including one that wanted me to change a lightbulb) I've tended to increase the rent at the annual review.

The_Morrigan

MouseTail wrote: »

but did he also show you how to bleed a radiator, fit a washer, change the shower hose, reset the boiler etc. LLs are called upon to do these things and there is a cost associated with that.

I learnt how to bleed a rad in a house I was renting years ago - landlord was doing an inspection and we asked him about the lack of heating from the rads. I had to teach the two boys next door to me how to do that too.
Foreman gave me a run through of the boiler.
I know how to change a shower hose and I've never had to change a washer, so don't know if I could do it.

I know there is a cost to LL's when they are called out to do these things, but that was my point - a quick run through of some items at the outset may stop the stupid calls. I've had those calls, for instance, my previous tenant rang me when I was in America because she couldn't get the fcuking UPC box to work...it was a simple turn it off and on again moment - I still had to take the call in case it was something more urgent though. :rolleyes:

gaius c

Appalling attitude to providing service to your customers really.
"I want them to hand me a huge chunk of their monthly pay cheque and I want them to not expect anything in return, even the basic legal minimum level of service I'm supposed to provide for that money"

dinnyirwin

The_Morrigan wrote: »

I learnt how to bleed a rad in a house I was renting years ago - landlord was doing an inspection and we asked him about the lack of heating from the rads. I had to teach the two boys next door to me how to do that too.
Foreman gave me a run through of the boiler.
I know how to change a shower hose and I've never had to change a washer, so don't know if I could do it.

I know there is a cost to LL's when they are called out to do these things, but that was my point - a quick run through of some items at the outset may stop the stupid calls. I've had those calls, for instance, my previous tenant rang me when I was in America because she couldn't get the fcuking UPC box to work...it was a simple turn it off and on again moment - I still had to take the call in case it was something more urgent though. :rolleyes:

It doesnt matter what you run through with tenants. I have an info pack with every apartment and when I did take the calls myself I would call out the oage and number and still they wouldnt have a clue. Didnt want to read it. Wanted it done for them. Some people are just hopeless, and its not up to me to teach someone how to change a fuse, plug, bulb, shower head, hose or tripswitch. Or evebn tighten a screw.

Maybe someone should arrange a simple course that you get a cert from when you finish it, and then when landlords are vetting tenants if they dont have this cert you dont get the apartment.

usernamegoes

dinnyirwin wrote: »

It doesnt matter what you run through with tenants. I have an info pack with every apartment and when I did take the calls myself I would call out the oage and number and still they wouldnt have a clue. Didnt want to read it. Wanted it done for them. Some people are just hopeless, and its not up to me to teach someone how to change a fuse, plug, bulb, shower head, hose or tripswitch. Or evebn tighten a screw.

Maybe someone should arrange a simple course that you get a cert from when you finish it, and then when landlords are vetting tenants if they dont have this cert you dont get the apartment.

Maybe landlords should be required to inform prospective tenants that they believe the service landlords have to provide in respect of maintenance is a premium that will be charged for at rent review and is not built into the current rent. Then if they tenant doesn't like it they can not take it.

dinnyirwin

usernamegoes wrote: »

Maybe landlords should be required to inform prospective tenants that they believe the service landlords have to provide in respect of maintenance is a premium that will be charged for at rent review and is not built into the current rent. Then if they tenant doesn't like it they can not take it.

See what I was talking about earlier. They are all arriving now. Must have been watching the rugby too.
Maybe they should read all of the previous posts BEFORE posting thinly veiled digs at the greedy landlord.

usernamegoes

Wasn't thinly veiled at all.

My view is that if the market is not well served due to government interference via LL and tenant laws then if the LL believes this is a premium then they should be open about it.

Fact is that there government should stay out of private contract and this would all have to be in the open. Leaving it to chance is not ideal, you might be a landlord that believes it is a premium whereas another may not. All I was suggesting is that like you want to know what the party that you are facing will do in respect of maintenance then the counterparty ought to have a similar view.

If we had less government interference then the maintenance issue could be tailored at the outset in contract where everyone knows where they stand. Do you have an issue with that?

dinnyirwin

usernamegoes wrote: »

Wasn't thinly veiled at all.

My view is that if the market is not well served due to government interference via LL and tenant laws then if the LL believes this is a premium then they should be open about it.

Fact is that there government should stay out of private contract and this would all have to be in the open. Leaving it to chance is not ideal, you might be a landlord that believes it is a premium whereas another may not. All I was suggesting is that like you want to know what the party that you are facing will do in respect of maintenance then the counterparty ought to have a similar view.

If we had less government interference then the maintenance issue could be tailored at the outset in contract where everyone knows where they stand. Do you have an issue with that?

Did you read the rest of the posts from today?

cookie1977

usernamegoes wrote: »

Maybe landlords should be required to inform prospective tenants that they believe the service landlords have to provide in respect of maintenance is a premium that will be charged for at rent review and is not built into the current rent. Then if they tenant doesn't like it they can not take it.

I think this is a good idea. And even I wish had "unfurnished" properties like the rest of the world as that way I really think you'd end up with less crappy places.

usernamegoes

cookie1977 wrote: »

I think this is a good idea. And even I wish had "unfurnished" properties like the rest of the world as that way I really think you'd end up with less crappy places.

I assume you are referencing the post whereby you tell tenants that you will give them a discount next year if they don't bother you with maintenance issues that they are paying you now for.

I actually don't mind that whatsoever, I my point is that wouldn't it be better if this was all spelled out in a custom contract not a wink and a nod. "If you ignore your rights, I'll give you a discount" Which is tough to prove when rent review comes. What if you decide to put the rent up, what can the tenant say then? "You promised us"?

dinnyirwin

cookie1977 wrote: »

I think this is a good idea. And even I wish had "unfurnished" properties like the rest of the world as that way I really think you'd end up with less crappy places.

If there was a market for unfurnished in Ireland it would be great. I much prefer that to furnished. If you tried to rent unfurnished you would be lucky if even one person looked at it.
Sadly there isnt.

usernamegoes

cookie1977 wrote: »

I think this is a good idea. And even I wish had "unfurnished" properties like the rest of the world as that way I really think you'd end up with less crappy places.

I would love if we have unfurnished rentals, then you can decorate to your taste and not the taste of an old woman from the 50s

dinnyirwin

usernamegoes wrote: »

I assume you are referencing the post whereby you tell tenants that you will give them a discount next year if they don't bother you with maintenance issues that they are paying you now for.

I actually don't mind that whatsoever, I my point is that wouldn't it be better if this was all spelled out in a custom contract not a wink and a nod. "If you ignore your rights, I'll give you a discount" Which is tough to prove when rent review comes. What if you decide to put the rent up, what can the tenant say then? "You promised us"?

You still havent read the posts.

usernamegoes

dinnyirwin wrote: »

You still havent read the posts.

I have, as far as I can recall you haven't said anything which goes against what I said.

cookie1977

usernamegoes wrote: »

I have, as far as I can recall you haven't said anything which goes against what I said.

I could be completely wrong but I think he's talking about very recent posts from other people

TheDoc

Call from estate agent this evening. Landlord informed him that he is not considering any of the forwarded applicants as he acquired his own tennant privately.

This is the third instance of this when we have looked to be odds on favourites.

As much as its heartbreaking it's frustrating.

Two weeks now until we are out of current apartment. Nowhere to go at present...

usernamegoes

cookie1977 wrote: »

I could be completely wrong but I think he's talking about very recent posts from other people

Oh right, I thought he took umbrage at me for saying that this should be open on both sides and protected by contract. Arrangements like this are great and if they suit both, I am all for them, but that's why we should remove the government's one size fits all approach and this should be contractual.

cookie1977

TheDoc wrote: »

Call from estate agent this evening. Landlord informed him that he is not considering any of the forwarded applicants as he acquired his own tennant privately.

This is the third instance of this when we have looked to be odds on favourites.

As much as its heartbreaking it's frustrating.

Two weeks now until we are out of current apartment. Nowhere to go at present...

Fingers crossed for you both! A landlord would be lucky to get you as tenants!!

handlemaster

TheDoc wrote: »

Call from estate agent this evening. Landlord informed him that he is not considering any of the forwarded applicants as he acquired his own tennant privately.

This is the third instance of this when we have looked to be odds on favourites.

As much as its heartbreaking it's frustrating.

Two weeks now until we are out of current apartment. Nowhere to go at present...

What area are you looking at ?