The farcical state of renting in Dublin

gaius c · 22-02-2014 9:28pm

TheDoc wrote: »

Call from estate agent this evening. Landlord informed him that he is not considering any of the forwarded applicants as he acquired his own tennant privately.

This is the third instance of this when we have looked to be odds on favourites.

As much as its heartbreaking it's frustrating.

Two weeks now until we are out of current apartment. Nowhere to go at present...

If only you had a mortgage, you'd have lobby groups screaming FAMINE FAMINE FAAAAAMINNNNNNNEEEEEEEE on your behalf.

cerastes · 22-02-2014 9:41pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

However- there are a few different factors at play here.
The Irish have never gotten used to high-density living- which is what is required in the major urban areas, whether people like it or not.
Councils are pandering to special interest groups- and indeed even at this stage, changing the density of pre-existing planning permissions, to reflect these lower density units (look at what happened in Adamstown last week- SDCC are to allow a far higher number of townhouses, in lieu of apartments- when this part of West Dublin currently has zero units advertised in local estate agencies.)

Its all- 'not in my backyard' and parochial politics at play- along with councils sticking their thumbs in their nose up to the Dept. of the Environment.

We are a little country- and we need to plan for the country as a whole- instead we have the likes of Westport and Carrick-on-Shannon torpedoing legitimate development in the major urban areas.

We need joined up thinking- not this populist crap- where every politician is pandering to his or her local constituents.

Presuming high density provides reasonable quality, reasonable sized apartments, not shoeboxes with no capacity to tolerate an expanding family without moving.

dinnyirwin wrote: »

If there was a market for unfurnished in Ireland it would be great. I much prefer that to furnished. If you tried to rent unfurnished you would be lucky if even one person looked at it.
Sadly there isnt.

What!? and have tenants provide their own washing machine, fridge, cooker? beds/mattresses and be responsible for it? tenants say they would want a place they could have to their own taste, but when they realise they would need to pay for and take care of all that, there the realisation sets in. Most are not really clamouring for that for that reason.

cookie1977 · 22-02-2014 9:45pm

cerastes wrote: »

What!? and have tenants provide their own washing machine, fridge, cooker? beds/mattresses and be responsible for it? tenants say they would want a place they could have to their own taste, but when they realise they would need to pay for and take care of all that, there the realisation sets in. Most are not really clamouring for that for that reason.

Rents would/should reflect the change to unfurnished. I can guarantee you many landlords provide crap for tenants and many tenants do not take care of what they have been given (to later try to convince me it's wear and tear). White-ware could be provided for in an unfurnished situation.

Electric Sheep · 22-02-2014 10:04pm

cerastes wrote: »

Presuming high density provides reasonable quality, reasonable sized apartments, not shoeboxes with no capacity to tolerate an expanding family without moving.

What!? and have tenants provide their own washing machine, fridge, cooker? beds/mattresses and be responsible for it? tenants say they would want a place they could have to their own taste, but when they realise they would need to pay for and take care of all that, there the realisation sets in. Most are not really clamouring for that for that reason.

It's standard here in the US to provide fridge, stove and dishwasher for an unfurnished rental. Maybe microwave.

sometimes washing machine, but not often.

I've never heard of a rental over here without fridge and stove as the minimum.

urzulaz · 22-02-2014 10:20pm

The Spider wrote: »

If there is no rent allowance, and in a truly capital system there shouldn't be, it will have zero effect on rents in Dublin, I doubt it has much influence these days. Outside Dublin where there's no work is another story....

Why would you foreclose on properties that are rented out in Dublin, thanks to rising rents it now means they are performing and can meet their repayments, and possibly make a profit.

Although I'll say it again looking for repos to solve an accommodation crisis in Dublin is nonsense, and the stuff of fantasy.

Speaking about rent allowance, it has barely any effect on the rent prices now. Now almost no LL accepts rent allowance and those who still accept are writing a lower sum into the rent books than the tenant is paying in reality. It is because tenants are not in position to negotiate the unrealistically low rent that suits DSP rent allowance requirements, so they are trying to get landlord sign that they are paying less rent than they are just to get allowance. So, rent allowance changes nothing, the rent price is still dictated by the supply and demand.

Victor · 22-02-2014 10:30pm

gaius c wrote: »

If only you had a mortgage, you'd have lobby groups screaming FAMINE FAMINE FAAAAAMINNNNNNNEEEEEEEE on your behalf.

Constructive posts only please

Moderator

Mrs OBumble · 22-02-2014 10:37pm

cerastes wrote: »

What!? and have tenants provide their own washing machine, fridge, cooker? beds/mattresses and be responsible for it? tenants say they would want a place they could have to their own taste, but when they realise they would need to pay for and take care of all that, there the realisation sets in. Most are not really clamouring for that for that reason.

Absolutely. It's totally normal in many parts of the world, and many tenants (including me) would prefer it that way, because we would then get quality chattels instead of whatever crap the LL buys. Means that kids just starting out learn the value of stuff, instead of just expecting the magic faries to provide it all. Makes it a lot harder for a tenant to do a midnight flit. Sustains a 2nd-hard furniture market. And when a tenant buys a house, it means they have the beginnings of furnishing it already.

Electric Sheep · 22-02-2014 11:35pm

cookie1977 wrote: »

Rents would/should reflect the change to unfurnished. I can guarantee you many landlords provide crap for tenants and many tenants do not take care of what they have been given (to later try to convince me it's wear and tear). White-ware could be provided for in an unfurnished situation.

Yes, but when you are given crap furniture you are not inclined to take care of it. A dirty 20year old sofa does not inspire house proudness. When I look back at the places I rented in dublin I shudder.

cerastes · 23-02-2014 12:12am

cookie1977 wrote: »

Rents would/should reflect the change to unfurnished. I can guarantee you many landlords provide crap for tenants and many tenants do not take care of what they have been given (to later try to convince me it's wear and tear). White-ware could be provided for in an unfurnished situation.

Unfurnished, should mean unfurnished, you say unfurnished to bring the rent down but want the expensive goods that can go faulty provided, items that are susceptible to neglect and pricey to supply/repair??
This is why, the unfurnished market here doesnt exist.
People complain about whats provided, but are unwilling to really provide themselves with the expensive items.

Electric Sheep wrote: »

It's standard here in the US to provide fridge, stove and dishwasher for an unfurnished rental. Maybe microwave.

sometimes washing machine, but not often.

I've never heard of a rental over here without fridge and stove as the minimum.

Sure thats most of the expensive items that can go faulty or faulty subject to neglect. I can understand a cooker (stove) but why is it so stunning that a tenant might supply their own fridge, washing machine. Its often pointed to the continent about how we should be more like them, well from what Ive heard, unfurnished means exactly that.

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Yes, but when you are given crap furniture you are not inclined to take care of it. A dirty 20year old sofa does not inspire house proudness. When I look back at the places I rented in dublin I shudder.

Were you willing to provide an alternative? then have it moved from place to place when moving?

cerastes · 23-02-2014 12:16am

If anything, I can see why tenants might want to provide their own
mattresses, suite of furniture, fridge, washing machine.
Starting with the first being most important and moving along
Can buy a better quality product, know only they have used it and keep it in good condition.

cookie1977 · 23-02-2014 12:17am

cerastes wrote: »

Unfurnished, should mean unfurnished, you say unfurnished to bring the rent down but want the expensive goods that can go faulty provided, items that are susceptible to neglect and pricey to supply/repair??
This is why, the unfurnished market here doesnt exist.
People complain about whats provided, but are unwilling to really provide themselves with the expensive items.

I'm a landlord actually

cerastes · 23-02-2014 12:23am

cookie1977 wrote: »

I'm a landlord actually

Well you must be aware, generally (for the most part)
Tenants here dont want unfurnished, only to complain the standard, quality, style, colour of items provided, while not be willing to provide same themselves.

Especially the white goods which are pricey to supply, susceptible to neglect, and subsequently pricey to repair.

how do you qualify saying it should bring rents down? but include some of the most expensive items supplied in a furnished letting?

Citroen2cv · 23-02-2014 12:29am

cson wrote: »

Again you've completely missed my point. Dublin is driving the Irish Economy at present. The majority of jobs being created are in Dublin.

> Dublin is driving job creation in the Country at present in a similar way London is driving job creation in the UK. The majority of jobs are in the Capital thus the trend of inward migration you've alluded to.

The Jobs are not being created in Dublin, they are being put there, by multinational companies, as the goverment pushes them to put the jobs in dublin.

cerastes · 23-02-2014 12:33am

Citroen2cv wrote: »

The Jobs are not being created in Dublin, they are being put there, by multinational companies, as the goverment pushes them to put the jobs in dublin.

whats this got to do with the farcical state of renting in dublin?
put there, created there??

Electric Sheep · 23-02-2014 1:02am

cerastes wrote: »

Unfurnished, should mean unfurnished, you say unfurnished to bring the rent down but want the expensive goods that can go faulty provided, items that are susceptible to neglect and pricey to supply/repair??
This is why, the unfurnished market here doesnt exist.
People complain about whats provided, but are unwilling to really provide themselves with the expensive items.

Sure thats most of the expensive items that can go faulty or faulty subject to neglect. I can understand a cooker (stove) but why is it so stunning that a tenant might supply their own fridge, washing machine. Its often pointed to the continent about how we should be more like them, well from what Ive heard, unfurnished means exactly that.

Were you willing to provide an alternative? then have it moved from place to place when moving?

I would imagine the stove and dishwasher if improperly installed could cause damage. As for a washing machine, it's a rare apartment in boston that has a place you could hook one up. I will admit that when I moved here I thought it was daft to have a dishwasher but no washing machine.

We did actually offer to replace the unforgettable couch, but the landlord told us we would have to leave the one we buy when we left, as he had nowhere to store the other one and would have to throw it out! Ah, being young and naive in the 80s.

cerastes · 23-02-2014 1:48am

Electric Sheep wrote: »

I would imagine the stove and dishwasher if improperly installed could cause damage. As for a washing machine, it's a rare apartment in boston that has a place you could hook one up. I will admit that when I moved here I thought it was daft to have a dishwasher but no washing machine.

We did actually offer to replace the unforgettable couch, but the landlord told us we would have to leave the one we buy when we left, as he had nowhere to store the other one and would have to throw it out! Ah, being young and naive in the 80s.

No reason for the landlord or the tenant to fit either, just pay a professional and split the cost?

Seems odd not having a washing machine at first glance, not having lived in the US, although Ive been for work and saw the size of the top loading monstrosities, Id have guessed it was a space thing.
I'd still nearly gathered not having a washing machine per rented unit was common in some places in the US, either laundromats or shared washing machine facilities in some kind of a seperate space for building residents?? am I wrong?
maybe it was a space thing originally? or that high volumes of renters and everyone having their own washing machine and then everyone moving that all around (on a relatively low usage/availability) wasnt as likely or cost effective as having industrial landromat washing machines. Seems to make sense to me, even better sense than what is expected here.

Maybe people have managed to share clothes washing facilities but dishwashing simply doesnt make sense, hence dishwashers are fitted (smaller than huge US washing machines? and not practical to cart your dishes around, where as clothes are lighter and not likely to get damaged).

Maybe its a health and safety/fabric of the building thing, considering people washing clothes in a unit will dry them there too, making the place damp/ruin it.

It'd make better sense to have laundromats here at every local shops, than have every house have an individual washing machine.

dubbie82 · 23-02-2014 1:48am

I moved into a flat just over a year ago, a place I like very much despite the fact that there are a number of issues.
Cover on the sofa was torn, tiles are cracked because of possible movement in the fundatinons, broken plastic ceiling tiles in the bathroom etc. Fixed all the small issues myself. Notifed Landlord about tiles and bathroom roof when I moved in and was told "it will be fixed soon". Turns out there were small holes the size of fists in the floor and carpet just laid on top too.

Well I kept the place spotless, put a lot of work in it etc. After about 3 months into tenancy I realised the issues above won't be fixed so never called the Estate Agent again and just put up with it. Then rent increase of 25% followed, actually 11 months into the first year, had to send copy of contract to Estate Agent to ensure that I wasn't charged higher rent before he was legally entitled to do so.
I would have happily signed another 12 month contract with a higher rent but 25% was just to much. But the current state of renting market in Dublin convinced me to stay put for another while. Then some construction work started downstairs. It's a 3 storey house with 5 flats and one commercial until on the groundfloor, and then the rodents appeared. The mice started to find a way through holes in wall and the piping behind the kitchen units. I was gone for about a week and when I returned I had to through out all my food that wasn't stored in containers because the creatures had their teeth in it.
Still holes in the walls outside that won't be sealed because according to Estate Agent mice are not that bad. I can hear them crawling around the walls and it drives me mad. How am I going to get rid of them if they have easy access from the outside? Yes I am still coming home and fist thing is to get rid of mice caught in the traps I set. I detest it, I did not cause the problem, I did not leave food in the open to attract them but still I am dealing with it.
Then next surprise, even though I was charged 30 Euro admin fee when signing the Lease I have now discovered that the tenancy is not registered with PRTB.
I am fed up, I am tired and I had enough. I have 15 years of rental history, I still talk to previous landlords and they all provide references. I am a good tenant but the more I see from renting here the more pissed off I get.
I spent the last month looking for a new place in Dublin and I can't find anything. As you might a shot at something affordable if you are a couple you can't afford a simple one bedroom flat if you are renting on your own it gets even more difficult when you have to state you are self employed. So when I hear now from Landlors who want to charge people like me 2 months deposit and even threaten a rent increase if something breaks then pardon me but I get really really annoyed. As I can understand the reasoning behind the idea with higher deposits, it can only apply in a properly regulated, enforced market and I am afraid the irish property market is far away from that.
I appologise as this is just a rant and not in any way constructive to the previous posts but just had that got off my chest.

Electric Sheep · 23-02-2014 2:00am

cerastes wrote: »

No reason for the landlord or the tenant to fit either, just pay a professional and split the cost?

Seems odd not having a washing machine at first glance, not having lived in the US, although Ive been for work and saw the size of the top loading monstrosities, Id have guessed it was a space thing.
I'd still nearly gathered not having a washing machine per rented unit was common in some places in the US, either laundromats or shared washing machine facilities in some kind of a seperate space for building residents?? am I wrong?
maybe it was a space thing originally? or that high volumes of renters and everyone having their own washing machine and then everyone moving that all around (on a relatively low usage/availability) wasnt as likely or cost effective as having industrial landromat washing machines. Seems to make sense to me, even better sense than what is expected here.

Maybe people have managed to share clothes washing facilities but dishwashing simply doesnt make sense, hence dishwashers are fitted (smaller than huge US washing machines? and not practical to cart your dishes around, where as clothes are lighter and not likely to get damaged).

Maybe its a health and safety/fabric of the building thing, considering people washing clothes in a unit will dry them there too, making the place damp/ruin it.

It'd make better sense to have laundromats here at every local shops, than have every house have an individual washing machine.

Yes, laundry rooms in the basement in the better buildings. Schlepp it to the laundromat in NY when I could not afford the sort of building with a laundry room. Live in a condo now with a very good laundry room and actually much prefer to go down and do 4 loads at once and get it all out of the way. I wouldn't take a washer/dryer as a gift now:P on the downside, there are times when all 12 washers or dryers are in use and you have to come back later. There are trade offs to everything;)

cerastes · 23-02-2014 2:00am

dubbie82 wrote: »

I moved into a flat just over a year ago, a place I like very much despite the fact that there are a number of issues.
Cover on the sofa was torn, tiles are cracked because of possible movement in the fundatinons, broken plastic ceiling tiles in the bathroom etc. Fixed all the small issues myself. Notifed Landlord about tiles and bathroom roof when I moved in and was told "it will be fixed soon". Turns out there were small holes the size of fists in the floor and carpet just laid on top too.

Well I kept the place spotless, put a lot of work in it etc. After about 3 months into tenancy I realised the issues above won't be fixed so never called the Estate Agent again and just put up with it. Then rent increase of 25% followed, actually 11 months into the first year, had to send copy of contract to Estate Agent to ensure that I wasn't charged higher rent before he was legally entitled to do so.
I would have happily signed another 12 month contract with a higher rent but 25% was just to much. But the current state of renting market in Dublin convinced me to stay put for another while. Then some construction work started downstairs. It's a 3 storey house with 5 flats and one commercial until on the groundfloor, and then the rodents appeared. The mice started to find a way through holes in wall and the piping behind the kitchen units. I was gone for about a week and when I returned I had to through out all my food that wasn't stored in containers because the creatures had their teeth in it.
Still holes in the walls outside that won't be sealed because according to Estate Agent mice are not that bad. I can hear them crawling around the walls and it drives me mad. How am I going to get rid of them if they have easy access from the outside? Yes I am still coming home and fist thing is to get rid of mice caught in the traps I set. I detest it, I did not cause the problem, I did not leave food in the open to attract them but still I am dealing with it.
Then next surprise, even though I was charged 30 Euro admin fee when signing the Lease I have now discovered that the tenancy is not registered with PRTB.
I am fed up, I am tired and I had enough. I have 15 years of rental history, I still talk to previous landlords and they all provide references. I am a good tenant but the more I see from renting here the more pissed off I get.
I spent the last month looking for a new place in Dublin and I can't find anything. As you might a shot at something affordable if you are a couple you can't afford a simple one bedroom flat if you are renting on your own it gets even more difficult when you have to state you are self employed. So when I hear now from Landlors who want to charge people like me 2 months deposit and even threaten a rent increase if something breaks then pardon me but I get really really annoyed. As I can understand the reasoning behind the idea with higher deposits, it can only apply in a properly regulated, enforced market and I am afraid the irish property market is far away from that.
I appologise as this is just a rant and not in any way constructive to the previous posts but just had that got off my chest.

you need to enforce your rights, go to the PRTB, make a complaint, you should have done this ages ago, but do it now. Or at least wait 6 months, and keep records of all communications regarding repairs, then drop the bomb on them at 6 months.
A to dispute the increase if the state of the place is as you say, B to dispute the lack of registration/failure to rectify problems.

Maybe look at house sharing in a better quality of property if you cant afford locate something alone.

The admin fees sound like a complete scam, the agent is already paid by the landlord to get the tenant, but Im not sure if it can be disputed, it might even be legitimately legal, but sounds like a scam. Saying this all as a private landlord.

dubbie82 · 23-02-2014 12:22pm

Apart from the mice the rest are small problems and didn't really affect me that much, the rent was reasonable then and I've seen flats costing more in a state far worse. There were about 60 people looking at the property when it was advertised so I though better keep quiet and get a roof over my head rather than kicking up a fuss. Lesson learned now.

He won't be doing anything now because one of the other flats in the same house has just been let for a little bit less under 1000 Euro, the last tenant paid 600 Euro until december, he could not afford the rent increase so he moved and new tenant is paying 960 now, The landlord would get the same for my flat, probably more because it's identical in size but in a better state.

Due to work and a couple of other reasons a houseshare is not really an option for the moment. Stuck between a rock and a hard place.

ABC101 · 23-02-2014 2:58pm

That's absolutely disgraceful about that apartment with mice and rats, Landlord should be ashamed.

I suspect more regulation will come about due to these substandard dwellings giving the rental sector a bad name. But more regulation will lead to more cost. A bit like the NCT system for cars, if it where not for the NCT, some people would continue to drive around in cars which are dangerous.

I think the Co.Council are supposed to inspect rented properties anyway... are they not? Or is it the PRTB are supposed to do inspections? Not sure.. anybody know?

Article in todays SBP by Karl Deeter and Dr Lorcan Sirr... 3 recommendations made... but no analysis of their first which is giving security of tenure to tenants long term. Not sure what this means... any ideas?

On another point, I think the design of a lot of properties is bad, many houses have a footpath right outside the front door, residents have to have drapes / blinds fitted to prevent people looking in. Crap design in my opinion.. but the Co.Councils obviously approve these designs. Typical Irish establishment... any crap will do.

I am going to make a prediction for the future of the Irish rental market....

I believe institutional investors such as CapReit and others will be encouraged to enter the private residential rental market... Tax rules will be introduced to cater for this type of investor.

The small landlord who has 1 or 2 properties or more ... tax rules will be changed to force this type of investor out of the market.

cmssjone · 23-02-2014 5:08pm

That's absolutely disgraceful about that apartment with mice and rats, Landlord should be ashamed.

Unfortunately there is a breed of LL that really doesn't give two hoots as long as they receive their rental money.

On another point, I think the design of a lot of properties is bad, many houses have a footpath right outside the front door, residents have to have drapes / blinds fitted to prevent people looking in. Crap design in my opinion.. but the Co.Councils obviously approve these designs. Typical Irish establishment... any crap will do.

Not necessarily any crap will do. I'm sure that the Co Councils were incentivised in some way...

I am going to make a prediction for the future of the Irish rental market....

I believe institutional investors such as CapReit and others will be encouraged to enter the private residential rental market... Tax rules will be introduced to cater for this type of investor.

The small landlord who has 1 or 2 properties or more ... tax rules will be changed to force this type of investor out of the market.

Much easier for revenue to deal with companies with huge numbers of properties than individual investors. Would a company whose business is to let automatically have a lower tax liability than an individual investor? I am subject to PRSI, USC and Income Tax on any "profit" I make. Would an institutional investor be subject to corporation tax (at a much lower rate) on his profit?

cerastes · 23-02-2014 5:29pm

dubbie82 wrote: »

Apart from the mice the rest are small problems and didn't really affect me that much, the rent was reasonable then and I've seen flats costing more in a state far worse. There were about 60 people looking at the property when it was advertised so I though better keep quiet and get a roof over my head rather than kicking up a fuss. Lesson learned now.

He won't be doing anything now because one of the other flats in the same house has just been let for a little bit less under 1000 Euro, the last tenant paid 600 Euro until december, he could not afford the rent increase so he moved and new tenant is paying 960 now, The landlord would get the same for my flat, probably more because it's identical in size but in a better state.

Due to work and a couple of other reasons a houseshare is not really an option for the moment. Stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Hang on there now, Ive waded in to take your side, which Ive no problem doing. You then go on to say its not a problem after describing the problems???? you need to make your mind up.
Its either a problem or you are happy to take the low rent?
It seems to me, its a problem, but you suspect making a complaint will cause the rent to go up. Not having a go, but which is it??

ABC101 wrote: »

That's absolutely disgraceful about that apartment with mice and rats, Landlord should be ashamed.

I suspect more regulation will come about due to these substandard dwellings giving the rental sector a bad name. But more regulation will lead to more cost. A bit like the NCT system for cars, if it where not for the NCT, some people would continue to drive around in cars which are dangerous.

I think the Co.Council are supposed to inspect rented properties anyway... are they not? Or is it the PRTB are supposed to do inspections? Not sure.. anybody know?

Article in todays SBP by Karl Deeter and Dr Lorcan Sirr... 3 recommendations made... but no analysis of their first which is giving security of tenure to tenants long term. Not sure what this means... any ideas?

On another point, I think the design of a lot of properties is bad, many houses have a footpath right outside the front door, residents have to have drapes / blinds fitted to prevent people looking in. Crap design in my opinion.. but the Co.Councils obviously approve these designs. Typical Irish establishment... any crap will do.

I am going to make a prediction for the future of the Irish rental market....

I believe institutional investors such as CapReit and others will be encouraged to enter the private residential rental market... Tax rules will be introduced to cater for this type of investor.

The small landlord who has 1 or 2 properties or more ... tax rules will be changed to force this type of investor out of the market.

Why? there is nothing to suggest that this type of landlord is the scum of the earth, Ive only one property to let, and Im all by the books and it has done me no favours, paid through the nose, made broke by it, while others stand by and are saving a fortune by simply not being registered for anything.
so why should an arbitrary judgement be made on me or anyone like me based on a single other case (let alone thousands of cases) of anyone not carrying out their obligations?

Also, most properties have a footpath outside, whats wrong with curtains???
The design of Irish properties is bad for other reasons, but its in keeping with how things are run here, ie communal living of multiple units in the same building (benefit should = economy of scale) isnt catered for well here (anti social behaviour/disregard for communal spaces/adequate space for living/noise/security).

ABC101 · 23-02-2014 5:50pm

cerastes wrote: »

Why? there is nothing to suggest that this type of landlord is the scum of the earth, Ive only one property to let, and Im all by the books and it has done me no favours, paid through the nose, made broke by it, while others stand by and are saving a fortune by simply not being registered for anything.
so why should an arbitrary judgement be made on me or anyone like me based on a single other case (let alone thousands of cases) of anyone not carrying out their obligations?

Also, most properties have a footpath outside, whats wrong with curtains???
The design of Irish properties is bad for other reasons, but its in keeping with how things are run here, ie communal living of multiple units in the same building (benefit should = economy of scale) isnt catered for well here (anti social behaviour/disregard for communal spaces/adequate space for living/noise/security).

I think you are misunderstanding my points. I'll answer your last question first about curtains.

A lot of modern properties are being built with effectively no front garden, just a very small strip of grass and then the footpath. So members of the public, walking along the footpath are effectively 8 feet away from the front window of the living room / sitting room.

That means if the occupants of the house wish to enjoy privacy... the curtains must be closed, or else heavy net curtains must be fitted to obtain privacy. Get the picture??

That to me is very poor privacy.. effectively you have to reduce the natural light into the home, due to the fact that the public are walking by your window, some homes you can see straight across into somebody else's bedroom.

Obviously there are some people who "could not care less" about the value of privacy, but I do. That's why I would consider the design of many modern homes to be "crap".

If people want to live in a perspex house, so that there is ZERO privacy.. they are welcome to do that.

On your first point.. about why should somebody like yourself (small LL etc) be forced out of the market by draconian tax law.

Well it is already happening.. "taxation on a loss", extra charges being imposed etc etc... all of which you know about.

However I think you misunderstood my point..... I was not "RECOMMENDING" that small investors be forced out... I was / still am "PREDICTING" that small time investors will be forced out.

You need to understand the difference between wanting something.. and predicting something. I can predict I am going to get old and die... but it's not also something that I want to happen to me.

And no, for clarification... I would not be happy if small investors where forced out...but the cynical side of me believes it's coming. Have a read of the SBP today, Karl Deeter and Lorcan Sirr have an article touching on these points. They state that effectively we require to transform the rental market. That's their words... not mine.

dinnyirwin · 23-02-2014 6:31pm

ABC101 wrote: »

I think you are misunderstanding my points. I'll answer your last question first about curtains.

A lot of modern properties are being built with effectively no front garden, just a very small strip of grass and then the footpath. So members of the public, walking along the footpath are effectively 8 feet away from the front window of the living room / sitting room.

That means if the occupants of the house wish to enjoy privacy... the curtains must be closed, or else heavy net curtains must be fitted to obtain privacy. Get the picture??

That to me is very poor privacy.. effectively you have to reduce the natural light into the home, due to the fact that the public are walking by your window, some homes you can see straight across into somebody else's bedroom.

Obviously there are some people who "could not care less" about the value of privacy, but I do. That's why I would consider the design of many modern homes to be "crap".

If people want to live in a perspex house, so that there is ZERO privacy.. they are welcome to do that.

On your first point.. about why should somebody like yourself (small LL etc) be forced out of the market by draconian tax law.

Well it is already happening.. "taxation on a loss", extra charges being imposed etc etc... all of which you know about.

However I think you misunderstood my point..... I was not "RECOMMENDING" that small investors be forced out... I was / still am "PREDICTING" that small time investors will be forced out.

You need to understand the difference between wanting something.. and predicting something. I can predict I am going to get old and die... but it's not also something that I want to happen to me.

And no, for clarification... I would not be happy if small investors where forced out...but the cynical side of me believes it's coming. Have a read of the SBP today, Karl Deeter and Lorcan Sirr have an article touching on these points. They state that effectively we require to transform the rental market. That's their words... not mine.

Thats what the house I grew up in was like.
Terraced house. 1 foot of grass and then the footpath. It wasnt all that bad.

But people in Dublin are talking all the time now about higher density. That means apartments, no front/back gardens for houses, smaller houses, less space between you and the footpath.

We cant have it every way. Either we build dense or we dont.

MouseTail · 23-02-2014 6:43pm

Houses have been built fronting onto footpaths for centuries. It was only after the post war expansion into the suburbs when land was plentiful and cheap that the luxury of a front garden became common for the masses. Land is no longer plentiful or cheap in main cities. You cant have low density housing with front and back gardens accessible to the centre and have housing that is affordable to most. Take your pick.

AlekSmart · 23-02-2014 11:13pm

dinnyirwin wrote: »

Thats what the house I grew up in was like.
Terraced house. 1 foot of grass and then the footpath. It wasnt all that bad.

But people in Dublin are talking all the time now about higher density. That means apartments, no front/back gardens for houses, smaller houses, less space between you and the footpath.

We cant have it every way. Either we build dense or we dont.

Whilst reading ABC101's missive I was happily listening to Bing Crosby....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjLQ0p_3PFI

Only way I can interpret the post really......

cerastes · 23-02-2014 11:26pm

ABC101 wrote: »

I think you are misunderstanding my points. I'll answer your last question first about curtains.

A lot of modern properties are being built with effectively no front garden, just a very small strip of grass and then the footpath. So members of the public, walking along the footpath are effectively 8 feet away from the front window of the living room / sitting room.

That means if the occupants of the house wish to enjoy privacy... the curtains must be closed, or else heavy net curtains must be fitted to obtain privacy. Get the picture??

That to me is very poor privacy.. effectively you have to reduce the natural light into the home, due to the fact that the public are walking by your window, some homes you can see straight across into somebody else's bedroom.

Obviously there are some people who "could not care less" about the value of privacy, but I do. That's why I would consider the design of many modern homes to be "crap".

If people want to live in a perspex house, so that there is ZERO privacy.. they are welcome to do that.

On your first point.. about why should somebody like yourself (small LL etc) be forced out of the market by draconian tax law.

Well it is already happening.. "taxation on a loss", extra charges being imposed etc etc... all of which you know about.

However I think you misunderstood my point..... I was not "RECOMMENDING" that small investors be forced out... I was / still am "PREDICTING" that small time investors will be forced out.

You need to understand the difference between wanting something.. and predicting something. I can predict I am going to get old and die... but it's not also something that I want to happen to me.

And no, for clarification... I would not be happy if small investors where forced out...but the cynical side of me believes it's coming. Have a read of the SBP today, Karl Deeter and Lorcan Sirr have an article touching on these points. They state that effectively we require to transform the rental market. That's their words... not mine.

I dont think I did mistake what you were saying, and now that you clarified it, no I didnt, you were clear enough.
But as other posters have said, some houses have no strip of land increasing their privacy, in that construction, Id suggest different levels of accomodation, either a house over basement style, which I think is quite nice, many of which are converted to nice flats. But designed as seperate flats from the design stage, where the first floor is above peering eyes and beyond a railing, but I have no say in these things.
Of course I think higher density living is required, so long as it isnt a matter of squeezing people into barely liveable shoeboxes, but where screwing the tenant/landlord by the mngmt company/large rental organisations you predict will arrive on the scene for fees that add no value to quality of life/the building/the surroundings/peoples security/social concerns.
Most are concerned about some level of privacy, perspex house is a bit ott.
I never said you were reccommending small landlords be pushed out, I said, why should an arbitrary judgement be made on me or anyone like me? ie whats your opinion, you raised the point. In answer to that myself, I think its because it suits bigger business/politicians to extract something from it themselves, it will push out genuine legitimate landlords as thats who it affects most, those that operate decrepit cess holes wont care and will manage to squeeze money out of someone thats stuck and there are plenty of people stuck enough (even this last page shows it) that they will get away with it, due in part if not completely from how housing has been mismanaged up to the boom/bust and now after it, by who? the same people, and now there's something of a crisis again and people cant get somewhere to rent, cant scrape together enough to get a deposit and whats being done about it?, people wont even complain, and when they do, they will think its small landlords faults, some of which may be true, but theres more to it than that..

ABC101 · 24-02-2014 11:56am

@cerastes,

Yes, you could build up... hence getting the various rooms off the pavement and so on. But with high density housing... the property on the opposite side of the street is also high... so whilst you may have privacy from members of the public on the street.. you are still overlooking your neighbour and they are overlooking you.

I remember briefly seeing somebody getting dressed in their bedroom once... that was from my kitchen!!! I could not make out any features of the persons body... but I knew they were female when a black band went around their upper torso... obviously it was a bra. That's not nice. Back to the net curtains idea again.

I believe small investors will be forced out... more charges will be imposed, more quangos such as the PRTB be set up, and perhaps the level of interest which can be offset against income reduced, i.e. 75% to 50% etc.

The ideology of rental property being managed by institutions is gaining traction. There is also disgruntlement of social welfare transfers of rent money to private landlords. Despite the fact that a landlord provides a service.. some commentators in the media are unhappy that the Dept of Social Welfare should be transferring money to them.

By the way there was another article in yesterdays SBP Give taxpayers a Revenue Ombudsman by Alan Moore... very interesting about the Revenue... how they like going after the little people.. but the big corporations they just leave alone.

Sorry for being so cynical... but that's my opinion take on the rental situation!!

TheDoc · 24-02-2014 1:13pm

cookie1977 wrote: »

Fingers crossed for you both! A landlord would be lucky to get you as tenants!!

Cheers. Becoming a struggle alright, I have my dates wrong in terms of when we are due out of current apartment. It's actually Saturday which is our last day. Apartment we are in got snapped up so no chance of extending our stay. Understandable and the current landlord is feeling for me big time. He gave me a glowing reference which it appears means **** all to prospective landlords.

My references and stuff isn't even getting past the estate agents.

Keep getting told that the landlords are securing their own tenants, even while utilising an estate agent also.

I'm looking in the Fingal area, prodominantly Swords. I'm originally from there, and the misses is from Malahide so staying in that region would be benficial with the baby coming in the summer, should any panic arise family are close

It's more for herself, so that she can easily meetup with family and friends, as she doesn't drive.

I also need good itnernet for hobbies aswell as work, Donabate unfortunately let me down in this regard

We have three properties we are viewing across today and tomorrow. Dealing with landlords directly which is a big bonus. I'm confident that I can sell ourselves well to a prospective landlord, and that seems to be the trick. Estate agents are just turning out to be a barrier for us thus far. I need to meet the landlords directly, and if they are reasonable, I'm sure they will see us as good options for the longterm.
So here is hoping. Out of the three properties one is a clear standout, and I got in touch early on and landlord seems keen with us being a family. One property is pretty old and not overly appealing on the eye, but in a good area location wise. The third is outside of my budget, but I figure might aswell go see. It's been up on daft for a good while now and I don't think the property is worth the asking, so I'll see if I can haggle down a bit.

We had a viewing on a place on Saturday going through an estate agent. It's just a **** situation cause I have all the references with me, and can pretty much strike a deal on the spot, but estate agents are just a barrier that adds an extra day or so onto proceedings, that by the time it's all passed around landlords seem to be sorting themselves out. Got a call this morning from that estate agent to outline the landlord has secured his own tenant. I've been getting calls from this estate agent over a few weeks now, I was happy to provide him with my specs so he could get in touch whenever something came across his desk.

I didn't in anyway get angry at him, its not his fault, but had a constructive conversation that I felt estate agent dealings were really just an unnecessary blockade. Either the landlord is providing the agency with the permission and task of locating a tenant, or he/she is not. I asked that if hes getting in touch with me on future opportunities, that he request the landlord present so I can meet them during the viewing. He was pretty much agreeing with me and advised that they are encountering a lot more of this recently whereby landlords avail of their services, but then get a tenant on their own. He said the agency are going to review their policy and most likely charge landlords fees before services are provided to remove this sort of messing, as the fees are typically renumerated once a tenant is moved in, it was causing a lot of wasted resourcing on agencies parts.

And at the end of the day that is all it is. In the case for the house last week, the estate agent was under the impression they were operating with the permission nand task of locating a tenant. There was 12 couples interested in this property and we shot out ahead according to the agent. We ticked all the boxes, had glowing references etc. We were arranging the likes of lease and documentation when the landlord rang to say he wouldn't be requiring their services as he got someone. And at the end of the day its heartbreak for me and my partner. Happening too often during this hunt for a house, where things look tied up and then snatched away last minute.

Fingers crossed for the next 48 hours, no dice on these, and it looks like come Saturday I'm handing over keys and having nowhere to live. Parents are being pretty supportive and I'd imagine no issues moving home short term, but after two years out and with a child en route, not ideal situation.

The farcical state of renting in Dublin

Comments