The farcical state of renting in Dublin

BigAl81

A friend lives in Grand Canal Dock and is a two bed flat there is 1,500. The landlord called over this week and told them with a straight face he is putting the rent up to 2,000 a month! Ouch!

I've told him to contact PRTB but he's just going to move out as he doesn't want the hassle. The landlord said he has a few places and he is putting them all up!

jay0109

Wonder what Google, Facebook etc make of these rents increasing at such a rapid rate. Their workers can't be happy and surely everyone working in Silicone docks is'nt on huge wages or even great wages.

Slutmonkey57b

OMD wrote: »

A married couple earning 80k (40k each) can expect to take home about €60,000 a year. While child care is an issue, once the children reach the age of 4 child care costs plummet.

The minimum income you'd need for two primary school kids would easily be over 50k. That's minimum, assuming cheap rent or mortgage which doesn't exist, and no spare cash for savings etc.

Google minimum income calculator if you don't want to take my word for it.

Fkall

BigAl81 wrote: »

A friend lives in Grand Canal Dock and is a two bed flat there is 1,500. The landlord called over this week and told them with a straight face he is putting the rent up to 2,000 a month! Ouch!

I've told him to contact PRTB but he's just going to move out as he doesn't want the hassle. The landlord said he has a few places and he is putting them all up!

€2k+ per month is the going rate for a new 2 bed apartment in GCB.

Management charges for these blocks are approx €250 per month or €3k per year.

Santa Cruz

BigAl81 wrote: »

A friend lives in Grand Canal Dock and is a two bed flat there is 1,500. The landlord called over this week and told them with a straight face he is putting the rent up to 2,000 a month! Ouch!

I've told him to contact PRTB but he's just going to move out as he doesn't want the hassle. The landlord said he has a few places and he is putting them all up!

Maybe an extra good quality well located apartment is 1500 but going to 2000 is excessive and exhorbitant. A two bed for 1200/1300 is about right but apparently the law of supply and demand dictates rents. Hopefully if all these unfinished blocks come on stream some reality will come back.

Fkall

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Maybe an extra good quality well located apartment is 1500 but going to 2000 is excessive and exhorbitant. A two bed for 1200/1300 is about right but apparently the law of supply and demand dictates rents. Hopefully if all these unfinished blocks come on stream some reality will come back.

It is a case of horses for courses in the area.

There are older 2 bed apartments available in the area from €1200 but if you want the water views and the Celtic Tiger bells and whistles the rent goes up.

Idbatterim

even if they start building again, I cant see drops, it might halt the rise temporarily and drops if they were to occur would be negligible...

syklops

Idbatterim wrote: »

even if they start building again, I cant see drops, it might halt the rise temporarily and drops if they were to occur would be negligible...

NAMA own a load of unfinished buildings in the city and are waiting for prices to rise up more bbefore they unleash them. From my office I can see "partially" unfinished apartments, that are NAMA-owned, and not on the market. I put partially in quotes, because they all have furniture in them and appear ready to go to market and yet for some reason are lying idle. This is in sandyford, right next to the luas, so-called prime location.

OldNotWIse

syklops wrote: »

NAMA own a load of unfinished buildings in the city and are waiting for prices to rise up more bbefore they unleash them. From my office I can see "partially" unfinished apartments, that are NAMA-owned, and not on the market. I put partially in quotes, because they all have furniture in them and appear ready to go to market and yet for some reason are lying idle. This is in sandyford, right next to the luas, so-called prime location.

Any day now we will be seeing the 2 page spread advertising of 3 bed duplexes in prime locations, with pictures of leafy elms and a gym, for "only" €500k

The_Conductor

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Any day now we will be seeing the 2 page spread advertising of 3 bed duplexes in prime locations, with pictures of leafy elms and a gym, for "only" €500k

I know you said this with tongue firmly in cheek- however..... there are developments in Dundrum, which are due to hit the market with the sort of valuations you're suggesting- its not even a hypothetical- its fact.

syklops

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Any day now we will be seeing the 2 page spread advertising of 3 bed duplexes in prime locations, with pictures of leafy elms and a gym, for "only" €500k

Honestly, not sure whether you're joking or not.

OMD

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

The minimum income you'd need for two primary school kids would easily be over 50k. That's minimum, assuming cheap rent or mortgage which doesn't exist, and no spare cash for savings etc.

Google minimum income calculator if you don't want to take my word for it.

And your point is?

You seem to be saying you would need to earn €50,000 a year as a minimum for a family with 2 kids. Are you saying 80,000 is plenty or not enough?

Arbiter of Good Taste

BigAl81 wrote: »

A friend lives in Grand Canal Dock and is a two bed flat there is 1,500. The landlord called over this week and told them with a straight face he is putting the rent up to 2,000 a month! Ouch!

I've told him to contact PRTB but he's just going to move out as he doesn't want the hassle. The landlord said he has a few places and he is putting them all up!

Provided the LL is entitled either under the lease or statute to increase the rent on what basis should your friend contact PTRB?

Slutmonkey57b

OMD wrote: »

And your point is?

You seem to be saying you would need to earn €50,000 a year as a minimum for a family with 2 kids. Are you saying 80,000 is plenty or not enough?

As in, 50k after tax. Minimum.

So your scenario where a couple with two primary school kids are bringing home 60k does not mean they are rich. They're probably just about scraping by. Most housing options which can hold 2 adults and 2 kids in reasonable comfort will rent or mortgage at around 1400 rent/1200 mortgage.

That assuming a couple with two small kids has managed to save a deposit and get a mortgage, or aren't saddled with Tiger-era debt.

usernamegoes

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Provided the LL is entitled either under the lease or statute to increase the rent on what basis should your friend contact PTRB?

To dispute that the increase is inline with market rates. His point is that, in his view, it is not.

OldNotWIse

syklops wrote: »

Honestly, not sure whether you're joking or not.

How do you mean?

syklops

OldNotWIse wrote: »

How do you mean?

The post below yours suggested your post was written tongue in cheek, and yet we are very close to the two page spread in the sindo cataloguing fabulous luxury living.

So Im not whether you were joking or not.

OldNotWIse

syklops wrote: »

The post below yours suggested your post was written tongue in cheek, and yet we are very close to the two page spread in the sindo cataloguing fabulous luxury living.

So Im not whether you were joking or not.

Oh right. No I meant that soon we will be at that stage again, and then as was rightly pointed out to me, we are practically there already! My apologies.

Endotoxin

Surely though if you want kids ( more than one) your joint income should be around 100k? No point in having two if you can't afford them:)

jane82

Endotoxin wrote: »

Surely though if you want kids ( more than one) your joint income should be around 100k? No point in having two if you can't afford them:)

You would be amazed how many kids you can raise on a shoestring.
Id say very few couples in the grand scheme of things earn 50000 each. If kids only spawned from rich people who would pay rent to the rich people and make products for the rich people and pour beer for the rich people?

Endotoxin

Would most middle double income couples not earn between 80-90K?My point is that if a middle class couple are taking home roughly 5k per month after tax they can afford any rent rises in Dublin. This time next year the average 2 bed will be about 1500, unless there is a huge shock to the economy likeRussia turning off the gas supply to Europe, aib failing the stress test and needing another 10 billion( highly likely)

cookie1977

jane82 wrote: »

You would be amazed how many kids you can raise on a shoestring.
Id say very few couples in the grand scheme of things earn 50000 each. If kids only spawned from rich people who would pay rent to the rich people and make products for the rich people and pour beer for the rich people?

Average wage in Ireland is about €36,079:
http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=EHQ03.asp&TableName=Earnings+and+Labour+Costs&StatisticalProduct=DB_EH

Endotoxin

That's Ireland as a whole though. Wages in Dublin would be at least. 10% higher than that

cookie1977

Endotoxin wrote: »

That's Ireland as a whole though. Wages in Dublin would be at least. 10% higher than that

I think that's what I said. If I'd posted the dublin wages no doubt someone else would have jumped on me. Cant find the dublin wages but for disposable income Dublin is about 3-5 grand ahead of most counties so you can try to extrapolate from that:
http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/economy/2010/regincome_2010.pdf

Endotoxin

I'm just talking about my own experience, there seems to be a huge amount of money still in Dublin, when rents go up there seems to be an ability by the renting population to absorb the increases. Maybe it's just me but I honestly thought that most people up here in their 30's are on about 45-50k.

Fkall

Endotoxin wrote: »

That's Ireland as a whole though. Wages in Dublin would be at least. 10% higher than that

Plus most people in Dublin work at least 39 hours per week

on_my_oe

Endotoxin wrote: »

I'm just talking about my own experience, there seems to be a huge amount of money still in Dublin, when rents go up there seems to be an ability by the renting population to absorb the increases. Maybe it's just me but I honestly thought that most people up here in their 30's are on about 45-50k.

I sincerely wish I was on 45k - it's 48k for the both of us! OH is on part time (skilled trade, limited work) and I'm on 30k... From salary surveys, I'm about 8k underpaid, but my boss won't entertain an increase. I can't move jobs as I need to maintain a stable work history while trying to buy a house (so I can escape my LLs repeated 'surprise increases', which erode our ability to save).
We are waiting on our vendors 'Consent to Sale', but have decided if the purchase falls over, we will probably throw in the towel and leave Ireland.

MouseTail

jane82 wrote: »

You would be amazed how many kids you can raise on a shoestring.
Id say very few couples in the grand scheme of things earn 50000 each. If kids only spawned from rich people who would pay rent to the rich people and make products for the rich people and pour beer for the rich people?

Most people with children buy. In Ireland, we buy at family formation stage, so usually when a couple are established and have a long term plan to stay together and raise a family. It would not be the norm to have children, be on average wage or higher, and be renting.
The rental market here is predominantly for students / young people in their 20s, early 30s /families on State payments.

coolemon

Surely the median income would be far more useful than the average. The average can show a heavily distorted picture of what the ordinary/average person is earning.

Are the figures - even rough - available as to what the median Irish income is?

Citroen2cv

Endotoxin wrote: »

Maybe it's just me but I honestly thought that most people up here in their 30's are on about 45-50k.

You are in dreamland, only very experienced professionals on that kind of money, and they would own their own home now, they wouldnt be renting.