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The farcical state of renting in Dublin

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    #242
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Citroen2cv wrote: »
    You are in dreamland, only very experienced professionals on that kind of money, and they would own their own home now, they wouldnt be renting.

    Have to disagree there, I'm 43 earn above that and i rent.


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    #243
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    coolemon wrote: »
    Surely the median income would be far more useful than the average. The average can show a heavily distorted picture of what the ordinary/average person is earning.

    Are the figures - even rough - available as to what the median Irish income is?

    You could start here http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/high-earner-ireland-755580-Jan2013/
    "56% of households have a gross income of less than €50,000"
    And that's households
    "50% of individuals have a gross annual income of less than €18,000"


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    #244
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Have to disagree there, I'm 43 earn above that and i rent.

    It's the culture of renting in Ireland. It's seen as a stopgap measure till you can afford a house which is why the rental system is fooked.


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    #245
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    It's the culture of renting in Ireland. It's seen as a stopgap measure till you can afford a house which is why the rental system is fooked.

    Yup

    There seems to be a stigma attached to renting. I owned my own house and sold up in 2005 to do some traveling. Came back and have rented since and am happy to do it. I could get a mortgage tomorrow and have no problem paying it back but i just don't want that hanging over me for the next 25/30 years when i can be happy renting.


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    #246
    Shedite27
    Registered Users Posts: 9,397 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    Citroen2cv wrote: »
    You are in dreamland, only very experienced professionals on that kind of money, and they would own their own home now, they wouldnt be renting.
    Have to disagree, I'm early 30's on more than that and happily renting. As are most of my friends. What I can afford to rent for €1200 a month is a lot better (short term) than buy for that mortgage. Plus I have a lot more flexibility.


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    #247
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Citroen2cv wrote: »
    You are in dreamland, only very experienced professionals on that kind of money, and they would own their own home now, they wouldnt be renting.

    I was 30 last week and I am on that money and I am renting. I would love to have my own house but the thought of getting into a 20 year mortgage scares the bejaysus out of me.


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    #248
    cookie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 6,794 ✭✭✭cookie1977


    syklops wrote: »
    I was 30 last week and I am on that money and I am renting. I would love to have my own house but the thought of getting into a 20 year mortgage scares the bejaysus out of me.

    20 year? Probably 25-30 year


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    #249
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    cookie1977 wrote: »
    20 year? Probably 25-30 year

    Which scares me even more, hence Ive not looked into it so i don't know how long it probably is. And I don't know what a tracker mortgage is.


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    #250
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    syklops wrote: »
    . And I don't know what a tracker mortgage is.

    No need to worry- they don't exist anymore........


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    #251
    gaius c
    Registered Users Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭gaius c


    handlemaster wrote: »
    When new property in Dublin comes on stream properly it will be two years I'd say from now then rent will start to drop.
    No shortage of property in Dublin. The vacancy rate is running at approx double what it was in the 90's. What there is, is a shortage of property that is genuinely for sale and not on the market to keep banks off their backs. The sales "foreclosure stuffing" is causing the rental market to be clogged as well.
    Endotoxin wrote: »
    I'd say rents will easily go up by another 20%. A middle class couple earning 80k between them will be the ones who can afford the increases and so the cheaper one and two beds will go up.
    A household earning in the top 20% in the country and living in one/two bed properties? That's in a country with the lowest population density in western Europe.
    Talk about living the Irish dream.
    bumper234 wrote: »
    Yup

    There seems to be a stigma attached to renting. I owned my own house and sold up in 2005 to do some traveling. Came back and have rented since and am happy to do it. I could get a mortgage tomorrow and have no problem paying it back but i just don't want that hanging over me for the next 25/30 years when i can be happy renting.

    A stigma?
    Maybe it's the lack of protection for deposits, or the accidental landlords who increase your rent if you call them regarding the condition of the property or even the complete lack of tenancy protection for tenants when the bank takes the property?


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    #252
    borderlinemeath
    Registered Users Posts: 5,340 ✭✭✭borderlinemeath


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Yup

    There seems to be a stigma attached to renting. I owned my own house and sold up in 2005 to do some traveling. Came back and have rented since and am happy to do it. I could get a mortgage tomorrow and have no problem paying it back but i just don't want that hanging over me for the next 25/30 years when i can be happy renting.

    The way I see it is that long term renters need to be paying into a very large pension. While the thoughts of having a mortgage scares you - what would scare me is the thought of reaching pensionable age and still be renting because I never accumulated enough cash to buy a house outright or that I was too scared by the prospect of a mortgage.

    We don't have a great history of generational living in this country either - maybe that's partly why the market is so distorted in certain areas, older people living in their homes that they now own outright while their children live elsewhere setting up their new families. Apart from the fact that I don't want children so I'm going to have to be self sufficent by the time I'm 70 odd and not worry about the monthy rent. I certainly don't want to be moving into an old folks home/sheltered housing when I'm elderly and relying on a state pension. Health allowing, I'd rather be in my own home.


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    #253
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    borderlinemeath wrote: »
    The way I see it is that long term renters need to be paying into a very large pension. While the thoughts of having a mortgage scares you - what would scare me is the thought of reaching pensionable age and still be renting because I never accumulated enough cash to buy a house outright or that I was too scared by the prospect of a mortgage.

    We don't have a great history of generational living in this country either - maybe that's partly why the market is so distorted in certain areas, older people living in their homes that they now own outright while their children live elsewhere setting up their new families. Apart from the fact that I don't want children so I'm going to have to be self sufficent by the time I'm 70 odd and not worry about the monthy rent. I certainly don't want to be moving into an old folks home/sheltered housing when I'm elderly and relying on a state pension. Health allowing, I'd rather be in my own home.

    I never said i was scared to buy again. I may buy again (if i decide to stay in Ireland) but if i decide to stay renting i will be covered by my pension that i have been paying into for many years and will continue to do so for many years to come. At the moment t suits me and others to rent.


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    #254
    coolemon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭coolemon


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    You could start here http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/high-earner-ireland-755580-Jan2013/
    "56% of households have a gross income of less than €50,000"
    And that's households
    "50% of individuals have a gross annual income of less than €18,000"

    Thanks for that.

    They are more reflective of my experiences of peoples wages than what people are saying on here. I think members of boards.ie come from what is probably a higher socio economic position than that of the general population, and so it is often seen that earning 35-40,000 is 'the norm'.

    What those figures indicate is that the 'median' income of the population is a mere 18,000 euro's. Or less than 50,000 euro for 56% of combined households.

    Alarmingly low.

    There is big difference in saying the average wage is 35-40,000 and an actual median wage of 18,000 euro.

    I would argue the latter is far more useful.


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    #255
    borderlinemeath
    Registered Users Posts: 5,340 ✭✭✭borderlinemeath


    bumper234 wrote: »
    I never said i was scared to buy again. I may buy again (if i decide to stay in Ireland) but if i decide to stay renting i will be covered by my pension that i have been paying into for many years and will continue to do so for many years to come. At the moment t suits me and others to rent.

    I never said you were scared to buy again. I said I was scared not to own a home for the reasons I outlined.

    Hypothetically speaking though, what if rents soared again in 30-40 years time and what you considered to be an adequate pension didn't last pissing time in the future market? It's the uncertainty in the rental market that is the focus of this thread.


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    #256
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    borderlinemeath wrote: »
    I never said you were scared to buy again. I said I was scared not to own a home for the reasons I outlined.

    Hypothetically speaking though, what if rents soared again in 30-40 years time and what you considered to be an adequate pension didn't last pissing time in the future market? It's the uncertainty in the rental market that is the focus of this thread.

    And there is no uncertainty in the mortgage markets?


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    #257
    borderlinemeath
    Registered Users Posts: 5,340 ✭✭✭borderlinemeath


    bumper234 wrote: »
    And there is no uncertainty in the mortgage markets?

    Not if you're buying a home that you want to live in long term, no.

    Buying something as an appreciating asset would be a different matter. Sure the stealth taxes have put paid to any investments being worthwhile and the uncertainty of the market is too much of a risk.


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    #258
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    borderlinemeath wrote: »
    Not if you're buying a home that you want to live in long term, no.

    Buying something as an appreciating asset would be a different matter. Sure the stealth taxes have put paid to any investments being worthwhile and the uncertainty of the market is too much of a risk.

    Want to tell that to the thousands of families living in homes under negative equity and fearing getting evicted by the banks every day?


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    #259
    cookie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 6,794 ✭✭✭cookie1977


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Want to tell that to the thousands of families living in homes under negative equity and fearing getting evicted by the banks every day?

    longterm means what to you?


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    #260
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    cookie1977 wrote: »
    longterm means what to you?

    So the people who have so far lost their homes were not in it for the "long term"?


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    #261
    borderlinemeath
    Registered Users Posts: 5,340 ✭✭✭borderlinemeath


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Want to tell that to the thousands of families living in homes under negative equity and fearing getting evicted by the banks every day?

    I'm talking about now, not 7 years ago:rolleyes:

    The thread is about the state of renting in Dublin NOW
    Our conversation was based on you renting and me buying NOW
    I asked hypothetically about you renting in the future if the rents went up which you failed to answer.
    I doubt very much if the OP and other posters want another thread to descend into a negative equity thread, there's plenty of those to go and post on if you want.


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    #262
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,322 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    bumper234 wrote: »
    So the people who have so far lost their homes were not in it for the "long term"?

    There are not too many of those. Mosts repos are on property where people have paid nothing for a few years.


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    #263
    jane82
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭jane82


    Is anybody else being told they need deposit and references before they can agree to give you the house.
    I had to loan the deposit because I only get money off landlord on day of moving. And he is saying he wont give a reference until ge inspects the house on the day of moving. Stress levels through the roof here.


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    #264
    MouseTail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    jane82 wrote: »
    Is anybody else being told they need deposit and references before they can agree to give you the house.
    I had to loan the deposit because I only get money off landlord on day of moving. And he is saying he wont give a reference until ge inspects the house on the day of moving. Stress levels through the roof here.

    It was always the case that you needed to give references and deposit prior to moving in. That's a bit unreasonable of him to withhold the reference if you have been a good tenant, but I don't think you can compel anyone to give you a reference. Is there anyone else to get a reference from, an employer, a previous landlord, and give your current landlords number for a verbal reference?


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    #265
    Jaybor
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭Jaybor


    jane82 wrote: »
    Is anybody else being told they need deposit and references before they can agree to give you the house.
    I had to loan the deposit because I only get money off landlord on day of moving. And he is saying he wont give a reference until ge inspects the house on the day of moving. Stress levels through the roof here.

    I give a cheque for the deposits 5 working days after a tenant leaves. Its in the lease when they move in, and if they dont like it they dont have to move in, so should be no surprises when they are moving out.

    Its amazing what things come to light only after the tenant is gone a few days.


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    #266
    jane82
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭jane82


    I would be sitting in your sitting room for 5 working days until I recieved payment.


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    #267
    Jaybor
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭Jaybor


    jane82 wrote: »
    I would be sitting in your sitting room for 5 working days until I recieved payment.

    But you wouldnt be in my living room, because you would have read the contract and decided not to take the property, since it didnt suit you to wait 5 working days after you vacated to get your deposit from me. So the next person would be happily living in my property instead of you, which suits us all.

    But I think I understand now why you arent getting your deposit and reference unil after you move out. We make our own beds.


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    #268
    donegal11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 689 ✭✭✭donegal11


    coolemon wrote: »
    Thanks for that.

    They are more reflective of my experiences of peoples wages than what people are saying on here. I think members of boards.ie come from what is probably a higher socio economic position than that of the general population, and so it is often seen that earning 35-40,000 is 'the norm'.

    What those figures indicate is that the 'median' income of the population is a mere 18,000 euro's. Or less than 50,000 euro for 56% of combined households.

    Alarmingly low.

    There is big difference in saying the average wage is 35-40,000 and an actual median wage of 18,000 euro.

    I would argue the latter is far more useful.
    The dole/SW isn't a wage


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    #269
    Arbiter of Good Taste
    Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Arbiter of Good Taste


    jane82 wrote: »
    Is anybody else being told they need deposit and references before they can agree to give you the house.
    I had to loan the deposit because I only get money off landlord on day of moving. And he is saying he wont give a reference until ge inspects the house on the day of moving. Stress levels through the roof here.

    Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Landlord cannot ascertain damage until tenants have moved out. Same with references. Of course he's not going to give a reference until he's sure the place has been left in good order.


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    #270
    jane82
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭jane82


    If I suggested I withheld the deposit for 5 days after Ive moved in Im sure you would have no problem with that so?


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    #271
    Jaybor
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭Jaybor


    jane82 wrote: »
    If I suggested I withheld the deposit for 5 days after Ive moved in Im sure you would have no problem with that so?

    You are perfectly entitled to ask for it that way if you want. it wouldnt suit me, so we go our separate ways and you dont move in.
    I dont sign your lease and then try to change the rules when it suits me. I say at the outset that its no deal.


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