Multiple rifle barrels of different calibers

Seamus the hunter

I was just wondering what is the law on changing barrel for rifles eg I have a cz 455 and I might in the future get a 17 hmr barrel

Thanks
Seamus

Vegeta

Different calibre will need a license

TriggerPL

Seamus the hunter wrote: »

I was just wondering what is the law on changing barrel for rifles eg I have a cz 455 and I might in the future get a 17 hmr barrel

Thanks
Seamus

Cheaper to change the rifle lad

Dian Cecht

CZ 455 is the interchangeable barrel version & I heard subsequent barrels are cheap enough something like €70 each not sure what subsequent magazine is but on the whole cheap enough for another calibre even allowing for another €80 for subsequent licence compared to buying another rifle

Eo1n8wrd

sako quad is the same, 4 calibers available but each barrel needs a separate licence.

Seamus the hunter

yea the magazines hold 17hmr 22lr and 22wmr so that wouldn't be a problem it would count as a hole gun wouldn't it and would you still fill out the form as if it was a new gun

Eo1n8wrd

yes, i asked the same thing before about the sako quad and was told each barrel is a separate application, but if in doubt just phone the super who will be handling it

TriggerPL

Didn realise they interchange , so if you were keeping ur own barrel u would need a second licence if not u could sub one for the other and no have to pay 80 euro .

I done all this enquiring when I was looking at a Mauser M03

dto001

What are the requirements for a Drilling gun ie. shotgun & rifle combo?

Cass

License for both calibers. It's this simple:

• If the calibers are the same you can have many barrels on the one license.
• If you have different caliber barrels then you must hold a license for each caliber.

Witcher

There's a box on the form you tick for a combination gun.

Grizzly 45

Cass wrote: »

License for both calibers. It's this simple:


NOPE! Rifle only in this case. I've a 20 GA/22 mag Savage O/U and its been liscensed like this for years both pre and post 08.Pointed this out to AGS a few times and they are happy to liscense as a rifle. No problem getting 20 Ga ammo either once its explained its a combo gun.

Now,however if this was a genuine Drilling. IE a SXS with a big caliber rifle barrel underneath usually in the 8mm and upwards,most common is 9.3 mm .You would be proably be looking at a restricted rifle liscense because of the rifle cal size.

Cass

Um..................... NOPE right back at ya.

A mistake in a license is the responsibility of the licensee to correct. Not the issuing Garda.

Much like a chap i met a short while back. Had an unrestricted license for a semi auto .223. Said he would not seek to have it changed to restricted after i pointed out the license was wrong. He said it's the Super's problem for issuing it, not his. I told him that the Super has no authority to issue a restricted license and the firearm is a restricted firearm. Hence not only is the license wrong, but invalid. IOW as soon as the Super "issued" it, it became void.


Same with your gun. You have two guns. A 20g shotgun, and .22 rifle are two separate calibers. What you are saying would be akin to me buying both guns, individually, and duck tapping them together then claiming they are the one gun. IOW won't fly. You NEED a license for the 20g and the .22mag. Regardless of the words of the Garda telling you so it is two guns, two calibers, and hence two licenses. As it's stands you have an unlicensed shotgun. The onus is on your to be licensed for this, and licensed correctly. The excuse of "i was told it was grand" is not, and will not be accepted. Same with buying the ammo for the 20g. Legally you have no license for it, adn as such cannot legally buy ammo.

Your license should be a dual license. IOW it should list both calibers on the license to accommodate the duality of the firearm. Not two separate licenses. However if they issue two separate licenses for it then they should only cost €80. If PULSE is not capable of issuing a license under this format then they need to change it to make sure it can.


I would address this issue sooner rather than later.

Grizzly 45

Cass wrote: »

Um..................... NOPE right back at ya.

A mistake in a license is the responsibility of the licensee to correct. Not the issuing Garda.




Same with your gun. You have two guns. A 20g shotgun, and .22 rifle are two separate calibers. What you are saying would be akin to me buying both guns, individually, and duck tapping them together then claiming they are the one gun. IOW won't fly. You NEED a license for the 20g and the .22mag. Regardless of the words of the Garda telling you so it is two guns, two calibers, and hence two licenses. As it's stands you have an unlicensed shotgun. The onus is on your to be licensed for this, and licensed correctly. The excuse of "i was told it was grand" is not, and will not be accepted. Same with buying the ammo for the 20g. Legally you have no license for it, adn as such cannot legally buy ammo.

Your license should be a dual license. IOW it should list both calibers on the license to accommodate the duality of the firearm. Not two separate licenses. However if they issue two separate licenses for it then they should only cost €80. If PULSE is not capable of issuing a license under this format then they need to change it to make sure it can.


I would address this issue sooner rather than later.

Cass et al.
Let me point out I HAVE addressed this issue to AGS numerous times as I have pointed out..I cant force them to change it.IF they want to liscense it like that ,that is up to them,and no amount of boards arguing will change it...
It has been liscensed like this for over a decade.Now,with all due respects to you that is the position and if I have pointed this anomaly out to them over four times and they have stated to me they liscense it as such.What do you suggest I do further??

Being pendantic about how things SHOULD and DO function are two different things here in Ireland.Especially with gun laws..Now,maybe you could advise me as to who I might address this problem ,if my FO is satisfied with it,if my Super and three previous others were satisfied with it including the one that granted it,whom I pointed this out to orginaly in the first place,what can I do?? I have marked on every renewal combination gun,marked down the two seperate calibers and it still comes back marked ".220 Rifle." If they havent picked it up by now, after me telling them,me writing it down on every application form,and me stating it here numerous times on boards.ie that this seems to be their policy on liscensing these guns as such.Well,i'm really sorry,but to use an Irish expression,thats the way it is...

Cass

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Being pendantic about how things SHOULD and DO function are two different things here in Ireland..

I'm not being pedantic. Whether a gun is licensed or not seems to me more than a trivial/petty issue. I'm pointing out your mistake. Your case may be a unique one, it may be the norm. It does not mean it is right, and it most certainly does not mean you should be advocating your situation as the norm when even the Gardaí you are dealing with don't know.

What do you suggest I do further??

Whatever the hell blows your hair back.

Me personally. I'd be onto the FPU, and requesting advice on the matter. I'd point out my concerns that a shotgun i have is not licensed, that i've addressed the matter numerous times, but cannot get it done. That the local station is happy to license the gun as a single caliber. I'd ask why the second gun on a dual caliber firearm is not licensed or marked on the license (even if it is recorded on PULSE) and if recorded on PULSE requesting a duplicate cert with the same cert number,serial number, make, model, etc. of the gun to be able to show to the Garda on the ground should you be stopped.

.............. and no amount of boards arguing will change it...

Who is arguing? I'm rebutting your post.

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=Cass;89153340]I'm not being pedantic. Whether a gun is licensed or not seems to me more than a trivial/petty issue. I'm pointing out your mistake.

Sorry,It is NOT MY mistake!! I have pointed this out to the GS numerous times on both local and divisional level...What more can I do to regulate the situation??? I cant help it if they keep kicking it back as OK...We do have to assume tthey know what they are doing too and are actually carefully reading and considering each application too???ERGO if it is in black& white in front of them .................

Your case may be a unique one, it may be the norm. It does not mean it is right, and it most certainly does not mean you should be advocating your situation as the norm when even the Gardaí you are dealing with don't know.

So you dont know either whether this is a unique situation or whatever...Have you ever owned a combo gun ?? Also,I might just point out that there a few others here in Ireland that have been in the same position of having it liscensed as a rifle too.
Also,if it was somehow foul, you can be assured I wouldnt have been sold any ammo by any sane dealer either..
Any dealer in the 26 that I have bought ammo from has been happy with the explanation a combination gun.Now dont say they are all wrong too and dont know the law either.

What your opinion as well as mine of RIGHT here is irrevelant.. I am dealing with what I am told on the ground by the people liscensing the gun is this is the way THEY do it,THEY recognise and note the fact it is a combination gun,THEY recognise that it has been brought to their attention.END OF from their POV.

Me personally. I'd be onto the FPU, and requesting advice on the matter. I'd point out my concerns that a shotgun i have is not licensed, that i've addressed the matter numerous times, but cannot get it done. That the local station is happy to license the gun as a single caliber. I'd ask why the second gun on a dual caliber firearm is not licensed or marked on the license (even if it is recorded on PULSE) and if recorded on PULSE requesting a duplicate cert with the same cert number,serial number, make, model, etc. of the gun to be able to show to the Garda on the ground should you be stopped.

And if they give me the same reply what then???Are they wrong then too in your opinion???:)
I think the answer lies in the acrnyom PULSE.

Who is arguing? I'm rebutting your post.

In a very abrupt manner I might point out!

Cass

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Sorry,It is NOT MY mistake!!

I never said it was.

Have you ever owned a combo gun ??

No. For this very reason. I couldn't be arsed getting two licenses for the one gun. Now i know they only need the rifle licensed maybe i'll invest. There is a nice Savage in a Dealers that i've been looking at for over a year.

Also,I might just point out that there a few others here in Ireland that have been in the same position of having it liscensed as a rifle too.

Get them on here then. Ask them what they done. Did they get it resolved. Did they get any "official" statement as to the reason why it only licenses one caliber.

Any dealer in the 26 that I have bought ammo from has been happy with the explanation a combination gun.Now dont say they are all wrong too and dont know the law either.

Why not? An RFD does not automatically entail knowledge of firearm laws. You ask any Garda about firearm laws and i guarantee you 90% don't know many or any and it's their job to enforce it. Most people learn the laws that relate directly to how it effects their job/lives.

They are selling you ammo for a caliber of gun you don't have a license for. They are selling you 20g ammo on a license that says .220 rifle (by your own admission). The fact the serial number matches the gun is irrelevant. Now i'm being pedantic.

What your opinion as well as mine of RIGHT here is irrevelant.. I am dealing with what I am told on the ground by the people liscensing the gun is this is the way THEY do it,THEY recognise and note the fact it is a combination gun,THEY recognise that it has been brought to their attention.END OF from their POV.

And they are always right? Never made a mistake? Did they bother to chase it up and find out? Did they tell you "this is how PULSE lists it", or "We cannot put two calibers on the one license but they are marked on PULSE". Did they give a letter to cover the other gun to act in accordance with the rifle license? Did they consult the FPU?

If you've done none of this then you have not exhausted anything. You've taken the word of the Super, or the person representing him/her, as Gospel and went on about your business. The same people that most likely don't know the laws, don't know what they are doing, and are completely insulated even if they are wrong. You are not.

And if they give me the same reply what then???Are they wrong then too in your opinion???:)
I think the answer lies in the acrnyom PULSE.

If the lads in FPU tell you that you can have a firearm with dual calibers, but the license and PULSE will only register the one caliber then my next question would be why bother to put combo on the FCA1. What difference does it make whether you declare it or not? It also raises the question how are they so strict on firearm licenses and allowing unlicensed firearms to be sold/used.

It's the same crap with a letter of authorisation for a suppressor. Some Supers are still issuing letters, and not using the S on the FCA1/license. While a letter is still, technically, legal it is not on PULSE if the S is not on the license. Therefore if you don't have your letter and a Garda checks PULSE as far as he is concerned you are in possession of an unlicensed firearm.

In a very abrupt manner I might point out!

Grow thicker skin. You're not known to have a gentle touch when getting your point across. Plus had you come in a "little gentler" than you did maybe you would have received the same tone in my responses.


This whole thing has spawned from your post above about your situation, and hence it being the right way. If you don't want the point argued then you shouldn't have brought it up. If you want to talk then be prepared to answer questions or debate your point.


The simple fact is this. If the rifle/shotgun combo is recorded on PULSE as being two calibers, but the system does not allow for two calibers to be printed on the one license, while not ideal, it's a start. If it cannot be done then it's only a feckin computer meaning someone somewhere has the power to tell the computer to allow for dual caliber to printed on a license. I mean it's not rocket science is it.

The fact that you don't know, i don't know, and seemingly the Gardaí don't know worries me. You of all people should appreciate the dangers in taking them at their word. As i said above and have done numerous times when licensing issues come up it's your ass in the hot seat when the sh*t hits the fan, not theirs. So why take that chance?

All i have asked from the moment you came in with this was for clarity. It's not about being right or wrong, it's about giving out the most accurate & CORRECT information.

Robotack

I've corrected a mis-printed phone number on every renewal for years and it comes back with the same mistake time after time. I reclon there is no attention paid to renewals... also don't forget the guard dealing with it probably doesn't know the barrel from the butt through no fault of his own and it probably also will not ever be scrutinised until the day something goes "wrong"... I peronsally would like to have it on my licence for the time that you might be stopped. I'd be just wary of how the individual guard "might not remember" these conversations with you if something ever went wrong. I've no doubt you've gone out of your way but maybe a call to the FPU might not go astray. CYA. Just my 2c... have it in writting and protect yourself. "the Super said" might not cut it at 2am when your having your gun taken at a checkpoint.... worst case I know. But you see where I'm coming from.

Grizzly 45

To put some clarity on this I rang the FPU this AM.
Their opinion on this is. IT IS NOT CAST IN STONE or legislation as to what exactly a combination gun should be liscensed as as the legislation DOES NOT provide for combination guns.
There are some Supers who are happy with single liscenses and there are some who want a dual liscense. It is up to the local Superintendant as how he wants to liscense it.
As such the AGS have had little or no problems either which way with any type of combo gun here .So long as it is currently liscensed that's all they care about.

That is the most accurate and CORRECT information out there for those of a pendantic and arrogant nature!
As far as I am now concerned I am 100% legal. I have informed my FO a decade ago about this type of gun in my application,The super interviewed me at that time and was very happy to grant it as well,AGS has been happy to liscense it as a rifle for the last decade,thee supers have done so with no problems, despite me quiring it Re needing the extra liscense which is on record no doubt,it has been marked as a combo gun on the application forms,and now you have the FPU s opinion on the matter.

I'm done now on this topic!! Take it as you will now thats the offical situation.Any problems with it go take it up with the Gardai and the DOJ.

Sparks

Grizzly, just so as you know, there have been several people who've been absolutely sure they were licenced and 100% legal, and then the Gardai turned round and went "no, that should have been a restricted licence, you're in possession of an unlicenced firearm". And the law takes the side of the Gardai in those cases (yes, it shouldn't; and yes, we thought that was a crock from day one ten years ago and said so; but yes, it's still the law; and yes, it can mess you up). And those people then find themselves in an area whose exit isn't well defined in law and which can look pretty bad on your record if the Gardai wanted to push it. Not to mention that that can then be used against you in any subsequent firearms licence application.

It's not about someone being pedantic and arrogant, it's someone trying to do you a solid favour, and if you ever learn to read between the lines, you'll get that what was being said here wasn't "YOU'RE WRONG AND YOU SMELL FUNNY" but "You've had some hassles with them in the past there Grizz, and maybe you'd just want to get that in writing to cover your backside in case you get some problem Super trying to give you yet another headache come your next renewal".

Ireseamus

Where can I get one of these combination guns

Grizzly 45

www.guntrader.co.uk always has a couple in stock.They are a bit more common over there.Here,ring around the dealers and strike it lucky:pac:

https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/combination-guns/savage-arms/over-under/20-gauge-22/model-24-180327172954466

https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/combination-guns/savage-arms/over-under/410-gauge-22/24b-180308182957006

https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/combination-guns/chiappa/over-under/410-gauge-22-lr/double-badger-171114190304282

minktrapper

How easy/hard to import a firearm from UK.

ligertigon

These things belong in the back of a survival kit on a military plane.

I doubt very much they excel at either barrel? i.e. both barrels are compromises.

Grizzly 45

Errr NOPE!
The Savage barrel on these is extremely accurate, for a gun that was made in the 50/100 dollar range back in the 1960s.Their trigger OTOH is barn door latch quality,and not easily reassembles on my model of the Savage.[A 3-dimensional puzzle requiring an extra hand].So not very suitable for an aircraft crash survival situation.Will it throw sub MOA groups out at 200 yards?NO, will it shoot like a bespoke English SXS? NO.Will it knock bunnies, foxes, crows, deer with slugs,and tin cans off the back of your ATV, tractor, pick up at 50 to 100 yards or shotgun range?YES.Will you be kicking yourself if the gun l looks like a ww1 relic after a year of bouncing about the place in the back of your jeeps toolbox and you never bothered to oil or clean it and it still functions 100%? NO.Would you be horribly upset if it fell off your fishing boat into the deepest part of a lake or into the Atlantic, never to be recovered?NO. Because this is what it is ..A farmer working gun and tool that does a very good job for its price range.

You want bespoke quality and accuracy,go buy a Kreighoff,or Sauer Drilling and pay starting prices around 3k.Especially on the Drilling as getting a shotgun barrel to shoot slugs and an underslung rifle barrel to shoot point 100 meters is a major gunsmithing PITA job.

You want the full-blown military version, see if you can find the Springfield M6 Scout in .22/.410 or the more practical Chippa in .22lr/12 GA.

https://www.chiappafirearms.com/p.php?id=213

ligertigon

You can catch fish with them too?:D

Grizzly 45

???????

ligertigon

"Would you be horribly upset if it fell off your fishing boat into the deepest part of a lake or into the Atlantic, never to be recovered?NO"

Sorry, I was being facetious