Barry Connell rules out Fenton horses from Cheltenham

tipptom · 21-02-2014 11:26am

dicky dunne wrote: »

Was Dunguib not already stripped of his punchestown champion bumper over a similar fiasco? Can't really remember the details but I thought he had it taken off him for use of illegal substances?

He was and he had the race taken of him but he has now by his actions said that any other owner with PF has not got the same integrity that he has.

There are plenty of trainers with top horses running in march who have had similar problems in the past.

I also agree with another poster about the world of finance that BOC moves in is what most ordinary people would not find full of integrity so im sure Barry has come across it in the past.

I just find it a bizarre situation and wonder would he have done what he has done if Gigginstown had not released their statement?

tipptom · 21-02-2014 11:28am

nuckeythompson wrote: »

Cop on lads, he used this situation to his advantage, TTT cant win end of.

He will use this this to take his donkey from PF stable and resolve a finacial dispute. This is only my opinion

Is there also a financial dispute?

zpehtsfd · 21-02-2014 11:32am

Come on guys it's not about his integrity or hanging Fenton, it's a simple move which disassociates himself from all the controversy during the highest profile event in the NH calander. Now he can sit back in relative peace to watch Mossey Joe, Foxrock and Our Conor skate in. Get On!!!!!!!

liamoreilly · 21-02-2014 12:42pm

...would anyone know if Ladbrokes will be refunding bets???...have quite a big ante post bet on ttt...

hawaii501 · 21-02-2014 12:49pm

liamoreilly wrote: »

...would anyone know if Ladbrokes will be refunding bets???...have quite a big ante post bet on ttt...

Nearly sure they were the first(so far) to refund ante post bets

liamoreilly · 21-02-2014 1:11pm

hawaii501 wrote: »

Nearly sure they were the first(so far) to refund ante post bets

...super...probably a stupid question, would it be refunded soon or would it be on the Tuesday???...

premierstone · 21-02-2014 6:24pm

liamoreilly wrote: »

...super...probably a stupid question, would it be refunded soon or would it be on the Tuesday???...

As soon as its officially confirmed was their initial statement, so I assume that means after the next confirmation stage?

premierstone · 21-02-2014 6:28pm

tipptom wrote: »

he has now by his actions said that any other owner with PF has not got the same integrity that he has.

But on the other side of it have all the owners who have chosen not to follow his lead shown they have far more loyalty than him, to soemone who lets not forget has not actually been convicted of anything yet.

I felt that Gigginstowns statement was ill advised and seemed like something that was blurted out without actually thinking it through or attempting to remain objective, but equally I have to say that O'Connels actions are just as ill advised, bizzare and at the end of the day self serving.

All of course IMO

NaiveMelodies · 24-02-2014 10:13pm

http://www.racingpost.com/news/live.sd?event_id=1134729&category=0

Opinions on this?

Should help lift the cloud slightly when the tests come back OK(hopefully) and get the rags off Fentons back to an extent during festival week?

Andalucia · 24-02-2014 10:40pm

the visit of the BHA only makes this matter worse, its a bit bizarre, though not surprising, that the Turf Club have sat on their hands in relation to this matter

Its only last October that Egan was spouting rubbish about no evidence of steroids being used in racing, this at the time that the former dept vet John Hughes was caught with enough to administer 'doses' to 1500 horses

premierstone · 24-02-2014 11:45pm

Andalucia wrote: »

the visit of the BHA only makes this matter worse, its a bit bizarre, though not surprising, that the Turf Club have sat on their hands in relation to this matter

Its only last October that Egan was spouting rubbish about no evidence of steroids being used in racing, this at the time that the former dept vet John Hughes was caught with enough to administer 'doses' to 1500 horses

What can the Turf Club do?? Fenton hasn't been found guilty of any offence.

Thud · 24-02-2014 11:50pm

Egan has been at pains to point out they cant test horses that are not in training which imo would point to the two horses coming back from long lay offs being under suspicion...supposedly BHA will test hair samples etc which will show results for longer period of time than blood samples would.

Connell's been an owner with PF far longer than Gigginstown, pretty much since PF started out, he also rode several of his own horses trained by PF so would probably have ridden out there

Imhof Tank · 25-02-2014 12:00am

premierstone wrote: »

What can the Turf Club do?? Fenton hasn't been found guilty of any offence.

Sure, and what could the UCI have done about Lance Armstrong :rolleyes:?

Lets get real, what possible explanation could there be for the presence of anabolic steroids in the yard??

Andalucia · 25-02-2014 12:03am

The Turf Club licences Fenton, they should have have looked to carry out the tests that the BHA will do for them on Fentons horses

Harry Angstrom · 25-02-2014 12:03am

The Turf Club are starting to look like a bunch of incompetent amateurs in all this. No wonder the BHA have decided to take matters into their own hands.

Dr. Bre · 25-02-2014 8:02am

they should be testing every horse at the festival. this sport is getting like cycling

hucklebuck · 25-02-2014 8:27am

Imhof Tank wrote: »

Lets get real, what possible explanation could there be for the presence of anabolic steroids in the yard??

Maybe they kept them around so if anyone make a mistake they could pick up the steroids and say you mad an anabolics out of that, maybe?

anuprising · 25-02-2014 9:10am

Andalucia wrote: »

The Turf Club licences Fenton, they should have have looked to carry out the tests that the BHA will do for them on Fentons horses

every horse that wins a race in Ireland gets tested for drugs - results take a few weeks to come back from the lab -
if a horse fails a drug test it is published in the turf club racing calender and horse stripped of race -
all of fentons winners were tested by the turf club and passed
drug testing of other horses in a race is totally random or if they suspect something
if a hot favourite finishes down the field , they must be inspected by the turf club vet and tested , results are also published in the turf club calender under ' post race reports '

the turf club were never informed by the dept that the yard was raided

BangBeater · 25-02-2014 9:28am

anuprising wrote: »

every horse that wins a race in Ireland gets tested for drugs - results take a few weeks to come back from the lab -
if a horse fails a drug test it is published in the turf club racing calender and horse stripped of race -
all of fentons winners were tested by the turf club and passed
drug testing of other horses in a race is totally random or if they suspect something
if a hot favourite finishes down the field , they must be inspected by the turf club vet and tested , results are also published in the turf club calender under ' post race reports '

the turf club were never informed by the dept that the yard was raided

Interesting. Every single winner of every type of race in Ireland under rules gets tested?

convert · 25-02-2014 9:41am

BangBeater wrote: »

Interesting. Every single winner of every type of race in Ireland under rules gets tested?

Yes, and point-to-point winners, too.

BumperD · 25-02-2014 9:59am

You'll see the name of the forensic lab listed on every racecard under the names of the stewards etc. BHP Equine Labs do most afaik

NaiveMelodies · 25-02-2014 10:05am

Dr. Bre wrote: »

they should be testing every horse at the festival. this sport is getting like cycling

Spoof.

Last horse to be stripped of a win in Cheltenham due to failed drugs test?

Imhof Tank · 25-02-2014 11:35am

only1stevo wrote: »

Spoof.

Last horse to be stripped of a win in Cheltenham due to failed drugs test?

Tied Cottage?

Imhof Tank · 25-02-2014 11:47am

anuprising wrote: »

every horse that wins a race in Ireland gets tested for drugs - results take a few weeks to come back from the lab -
if a horse fails a drug test it is published in the turf club racing calender and horse stripped of race -
all of fentons winners were tested by the turf club and passed
drug testing of other horses in a race is totally random or if they suspect something
if a hot favourite finishes down the field , they must be inspected by the turf club vet and tested , results are also published in the turf club calender under ' post race reports '

the turf club were never informed by the dept that the yard was raided

Yes but in the case of horses off the track for 2 years with glass legs or tendon troubles say, there is no "out of competition" testing AFAIK.

All the department of ag can do is inspect premises for the presence of prohibited substances. Don't think this section of the department are even set up to "test" animals. In my view, 100 clear tests mean little if a trainer admits that he has steroids in the yard.

Dr. Bre · 25-02-2014 11:51am

only1stevo wrote: »

Spoof.

Last horse to be stripped of a win in Cheltenham due to failed drugs test?

doesnt mean it doesnt go on. chelt is only 4 days of the racing calendar. any athletes that fail tests it normally happens outside of the olympics

25-02-2014 11:53am

only1stevo wrote: »

Spoof.

Last horse to be stripped of a win in Cheltenham due to failed drugs test?

That isn't the greatest defence in the world now is it?

The whole problem with cycling was that it was so easy to work around in competition testing and that so few cyclists failed tests. Drugs were administered in a way that ensured they were NOT in the system on the day or days of a race. As cyclists used to say, failing a drug test was more a sign of stupidity than anything else. Everyone knew what they could take and when.

Horse racing, in which a horse is campaigned at times chosen by connections and can thus be tested at a time of their choosing is the PERFECT environment for doping from that perspective.

brandon_flowers · 25-02-2014 11:58am

Imhof Tank wrote: »

Tied Cottage?

Probably and even that was a very unusual case. Wasn't his feed mixed up with cocoa beans in a truck or something?

Non-triers are a far bigger problem than any doping in racing.

anuprising · 25-02-2014 12:09pm

it's easier for people on here to focus and home in on the negative as usually the truth is too boring for them
.

part of the test for identifying a physiatrist disorder is to see if the subject thinks he knows what goes on in the mind of others .

lots of posters on this thread have failed that test :-)

nobody here can read minds , was in the yard or can predict the future , so most comments on here are on par to middle aged women gossiping

NaiveMelodies · 25-02-2014 12:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

That isn't the greatest defence in the world now is it?

The whole problem with cycling was that it was so easy to work around in competition testing and that so few cyclists failed tests. Drugs were administered in a way that ensured they were NOT in the system on the day or days of a race. As cyclists used to say, failing a drug test was more a sign of stupidity than anything else. Everyone knew what they could take and when.

Horse racing, in which a horse is campaigned at times chosen by connections and can thus be tested at a time of their choosing is the PERFECT environment for doping from that perspective.

It's not a defence as such. I just don't see the comparison as being in anyway accurate when their is a mountain of published proof on one hand, and a notable absence of proof on the other.

25-02-2014 12:21pm

only1stevo wrote: »

It's not a defence as such. I just don't see the comparison as being in anyway accurate when their is a mountain of published proof on one hand, and a notable absence of proof on the other.

Of course and I have no interest in hanging Fenton here (I took some of that 50/1 on last instalment myself:))

On the other hand there is a lot of circumstantial evidence around the industry. You only have to look at the Godolphin situation last year. Of course an operation like that is far removed from the average irish national hunt trainer but it demonstrates that systematic doping and the pressures to undertake it do exist in racing.

The structure of the industry (no out of competition testing, it's a pure power/stamina sport which means drugs can be the difference between winning and losing, horses don't talk, pressure to win and large amounts of money to be made) makes it more likely than not that doping takes place.

That's a personal opinion but I think you would be very naive to think it doesn't go on.

Barry Connell rules out Fenton horses from Cheltenham

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