Bayern that good? Unstoppable? or is it a case of...

Sheepy99

Thought that this was a bit long for the Bundesliga thread . . .

Is anyone of the opinion that Bayern (although pretty good) aren't as good as everyone (mainly the media) makes them out to be?
Sure they're definitely in the top5 in Europe but I would be just as worried (if not a bit more) if my team was playing Barca, Madrid, and a bit back Psg, City or Chelsea , those last three falling into a "on their day" category.

Great team with some fine players but they're not this unstoppable team that the media, who i doubt could name many German teams outside the top4 or 5, make them out to be. They definitely don't watch them anyway and anyone who has watched it in any sort of regular fashion would know that Dortmund are going through the worst injury crisis at the back imaginable and have a slightly disinterested Lewandowski who's heading the Bavarian direction soon, with Schalke being the only other team of decent quality but have Draxler off form a bit and Huntelaar, who they've relied heavily upon in recent seasons only coming back from a nasty injury.

So I find it a bit mad to read reports about how they're on another level playing in a league where the only 2 who will challenge them are having off seasons, for one reason or another.

All in all, unless the draw is kind I don't see them going beyond the semis and could be taken out in the quarters.
Realise this is a bit of a rant, but sure let us know what you think.

Kirby

Yes, they are that good.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Hank Scorpio

yeah it's not like they won the UCL last year destroying Barca on route

Maximus Alexander

There always has to be one team that is the media darling and the unstoppable force in the football world.

Barcelona have waned a touch in the last year or two so the media have switched focus to Bayern. No doubt they are an excellent team but I agree with you, they're not exactly playing football at a whole new level, the likes of which has never been seen and possibly never will be again. Which is nearly what some media sources make it seem like.

Certainly don't fancy watching United get mauled by them though if they should be drawn together in the CL.

Skylinehead

They're easily the best team in the world.

I do think they were better under Heynckes though, they seem much more reluctant to really go for it these days. I think their squad suits the more direct style rather than Guardiolas.

Lawrence1895

They are a good team alright, but only, because the others are too stupid. Once they get into their style of play, you can't stop them...so just attack, attack, attack and don't be afraid of them, they are only humans

Boskowski

Yes they are that good and they are my big time favourite for repeating the treble this year.
The one thing that distinguishes them greatly from the likes of Chelsea, City, PSG is their continuity. They buy one player maybe two every year. They introduce maybe one from the youths. They don't go out buying 5 players selling 3 - ever.
Also anyone who goes there rarely seems to leave but for a few exceptions.
They are slow continuous developers. It took them years to rise to the very top and it will take years to get them off it.
Bayern are awesome.

Corholio

Boskowski wrote: »

Yes they are that good and they are my big time favourite for repeating the treble this year.
The one thing that distinguishes them greatly from the likes of Chelsea, City, PSG is their continuity. They buy one player maybe two every year. They introduce maybe one from the youths. They don't go out buying 5 players selling 3 - ever.
Also anyone who goes there rarely seems to leave but for a few exceptions.
They are slow continuous developers. It took them years to rise to the very top and it will take years to get them off it.
Bayern are awesome.

It did?

Pretty sure I remember them in a few Champions League finals over the last 10 years.

roanoke

Bayern Munich are the best club side in world and I'm fairly confident they'll become the first team to retain the Champions League title next May (unless of course someone like Chelsea can grind a result out of them of course).

I recall even when Spain/Barca were dominating and beating everyone with tiki-taka (circa 2008-2012) I was thinking "yeah, but some day the Germans are gonna figure out how to do this too .... and with extra physical presence" and they'll be the ones who take it to the next level. Fast foward a couple of years and it seems like that's Bayern are doing.

TBH this is one of the main reasons I like football. There's always someone taking a supposedly unbeatable formula and working out an approach to comprehensively defeat it. As such, no doubt some team will crack Bayern too in the next couple of seasons and we'll have yet another top dog. But for right now it's all Bayern.

Pighead

Boskowski wrote: »

The one thing that distinguishes them greatly from the likes of Chelsea, City, PSG is their continuity. They buy one player maybe two every year. They introduce maybe one from the youths. They don't go out buying 5 players selling 3 - ever.
Also anyone who goes there rarely seems to leave but for a few exceptions.
They are slow continuous developers. It took them years to rise to the very top and it will take years to get them off it.
Bayern are awesome.

Maybe I'm not understanding you properly but didn't they bring in five new players at the start of last season? Martinez, Mandzujik, Shaqiri, Dante and Pizarro.

Sheepy99

Corholio wrote: »

It did?

Pretty sure I remember them in a few Champions League finals over the last 10 years.

3 in 4 years is the same as 3 in 10 ...

LuckyLloyd

Chelsea and Inter have proven over the last half decade that everyone is beatable. Guardiolaball has been stopped before and it will be again.

Corholio

Sheepy99 wrote: »

3 in 4 years is the same as 3 in 10 ...

They appeared in 2 finals in 3 years between 98-01 as well, did it take them 'years to rise to the top' as well then?

mike65

They are so much better than the Bundesliga that they might just under-estimate the level they need to play at in the CL, Arsenal were giving them a game until Ozil failed. being top dog isn't always helpful - look at Juve, ran off with Serie A last year doing it again this but got dumped out of Europe comprehensively.

dundalkfc10

They are far from unstoppable!!

Too Tough To Die

Definitely the best. Definitely beatable.

The_Kew_Tour

The way they humiliated Barca last year was a joy to watch.

They are a great side but they can be beaten(with bit of luck)

Boskowski

Pighead wrote: »

Maybe I'm not understanding you properly but didn't they bring in five new players at the start of last season? Martinez, Mandzujik, Shaqiri, Dante and Pizarro.

I suppose they did, got me there, although it must be said that Pizarro was a former player returning into a backup role, Shaqiri was bought as a youth prospect and Martinez was a long time pursuit. One could also argue that Dante was in response to van Buyten constantly suffering from injuries.

What I meant was that they have a long term plan which they pursue in measured manner, they don't go out and buy whatever is on the market cos they can and bang next season you see 5 new guys in their starting eleven.

I'm following the Bundesliga for a very long time and Bayern have that kind of wholesomeness - for lack of a better word - about them.

Last season for example bar a couple of youngsters being allowed into first team training it was really only Goetze and Thiago.

Boskowski

Corholio wrote: »

It did?

Pretty sure I remember them in a few Champions League finals over the last 10 years.

You need to understand Bayern.
Bayern were THE German powerhouse since the mid late sixties and that never changed. Competitors came and challenged, won leagues even - and went away. Gladbach, HSV, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Leverkusen, Dortmund etc. But Bayern were always there. There were also always there or thereabouts in Europe but they went through many years where they weren't really in the top class of European clubs. For years they were behind the likes of United, Real, Barca and while being steady they weren't really at the races in terms of winning chances. In Bayern language that isn't the very top. The very top is winning or at least be head to head with the winners.
Anyway, they made their way steadily back up and are since 2008, 2009 back in the big time.
Even since then they improved bit by bit every year until they finally actually won the thing. Looking at their squad and its age profile they are going to be around for the next few years, too.

Boskowski

mike65 wrote: »

They are so much better than the Bundesliga that they might just under-estimate the level they need to play at in the CL, Arsenal were giving them a game until Ozil failed. being top dog isn't always helpful - look at Juve, ran off with Serie A last year doing it again this but got dumped out of Europe comprehensively.

Ah jesus give the lad a break. I watched the match and there was more than just Oezil on the pitch for Arsenal as far as I remember.
Eurosport have a column called 'Overreaction Theatre' and its a reflection on where the twitter bollixology has gotten us in football. Oezil will have to adopt to the work rate required in England and I'm sure he will. Oezil is a player for the burst, the pass, the flick, playing culture. He's not one for ploughing his own box. I'm sure he will adopt to the level thats required of him in that regard. And if not I'm also sure someone will take him off Arsenal.

dreamers75

I think they lack a world class striker to go with the rest of the team.

Pretty good tho and on form would most likely beat any club in Europe.

Boskowski

dreamers75 wrote: »

I think they lack a world class striker to go with the rest of the team.

Pretty good tho and on form would most likely beat any club in Europe.

I disagree and thats actually also one aspect where I don't quite get Bayern. They had a top class striker in Gomez but somehow he wasn't deemed 'sexy' enough or something. So a 40 goal guy got shafted and offloaded to Fiorentina. Then they got Mandzukic who is in my opinion also a top class striker, perfectly adequate for the job anyway, and again he's not quite 'sexy' enough so it must be Lewandowski for next year. I know a lot of top teams who'd take the goal rate of any of those three.

DazMarz

Any team is beatable. Beautiful passing football that tears most opponents to shreds is beatable.

Cases in point:

2009: Chelsea came within minutes of beating Barcelona in the Champions League semi-final. In one of the bitterest defeats in my recent memory, Barcelona were nullified and kept quiet for 180-odd minutes. One moment of sheer genius from Andrés Iniesta was enough for them to get to the final.

2010: Inter Milan took Chelsea's model and improved upon it. I have never, ever seen such a sheer master-class of disciplined, effective and well-drilled defending like was seen in the Nou Camp. Fair enough, Barcelona did find the net once (and again a second time in the dying minutes, but Bojan's effort was ruled out for offside). But time and time again, Inter saw off Barcelona's attacks. With 10 men for a lot of it. It was unbelievable. A ticket to the final, and a ticket to the Treble was Inter's reward.

2012: Chelsea did it to both Barcelona and Bayern this time. And arguably to Napoli. To get past Napoli in the first place was a minor miracle. To then get past Barcelona by beating them on aggregate (and playing most of the second leg in the Nou Camp with 10 men) was an absolute miracle. To then go on and beat Bayern Munich on penalties was divine intervention. I'm an atheist at heart, but you would have to question whether there is a God (most other fans would probably question if Satan was real, but how and ever! ) after that. It was simply unbelievable.

Bayern are on some run at the moment; undefeated in 21 games in the Bundesliga (W19 D2) and 16 points clear at the top. Only lost one game in the Champions League so far this season (2-3 to Man City). And they lost the German Super Cup to Dortmund.

But apart from that, they are irresistible at the moment. But can they be beaten? Of course they can. A well drilled, defensive side could smother and nullify their attack and hit them on the counter. Chelsea were seconds away from beating them in the UEFA Super Cup (again, with 10 men). Until the wheels came off the wagon, Arsenal were looking decent against them. Stuttgart almost had them beat, but 2 goals in the closing stages saw Bayern get a 1-2 win. Close never won the race and all that, but still...

I still maintain that I honestly think that they will win the Champions League again this season. That said, I thought Barcelona would retain it in 2010 and 2012. We all know how that went. Bayern can afford to lose a game in the knockout stages of the CL, and still go on to the next round. But I wouldn't be holding my breath about it.

In a Cup Final, anything can happen. But I still believe that Bayern are good enough to win the CL again. The Bundesliga is almost a foregone conclusion at this stage (and it wouldn't surprise me either if they did an "Invincibles" job on it, either).

Are they the best at the moment? Undoubtedly. Are they beatable? Of course they are... just needs a team on their day and a large slice of luck, same as happened in days gone past.

DazMarz

Boskowski wrote: »

I disagree and thats actually also one aspect where I don't quite get Bayern. They had a top class striker in Gomez but somehow he wasn't deemed 'sexy' enough or something. So a 40 goal guy got shafted and offloaded to Fiorentina. Then they got Mandzukic who is in my opinion also a top class striker, perfectly adequate for the job anyway, and again he's not quite 'sexy' enough so it must be Lewandowski for next year. I know a lot of top teams who'd take the goal rate of any of those three.

I couldn't fathom why Bayern ditched Mario Gomez either. He was a divine talent and one of the deadliest goalscorers in the game. He might do sod all for 89 minutes and 30 seconds of the game, but give him 30 seconds and a yard of space and you have a goal or two before you know what the fúck has hit you.

His two goals against Holland in Euro 2012 were absolute poetry. Especially the one where he did a little feint, turn and twist around the ball before slotting it into the bottom corner. Gomez also has 75 league goals for Bayern in 115 appearances. That is some return...

Mandzucic is another striker I rate very highly and again I cannot fathom why Bayern aren't happy with him.

Lewandowski is something else, a class striker, but why Bayern would pursue him at the expense of two already brilliant strikers is a bit puzzling.

That said, imagine a dynamic player like Lewa getting fed passes from Ribery, Robben and Gotze... jesus....

dreamers75

Boskowski wrote: »

I disagree and thats actually also one aspect where I don't quite get Bayern. They had a top class striker in Gomez but somehow he wasn't deemed 'sexy' enough or something. So a 40 goal guy got shafted and offloaded to Fiorentina. Then they got Mandzukic who is in my opinion also a top class striker, perfectly adequate for the job anyway, and again he's not quite 'sexy' enough so it must be Lewandowski for next year. I know a lot of top teams who'd take the goal rate of any of those three.

A world class striker and the Arsenal game would have been over by half time.

shadowcomplex

The 99 United team would give them a good game

Boskowski

dreamers75 wrote: »

A world class striker and the Arsenal game would have been over by half time.

The Arsenal game was over by half time.

tayto lover

Boskowski wrote: »

The Arsenal game was over by half time.

Liverpool are the best team in the world :rolleyes:

Boskowski

tayto lover wrote: »

Liverpool are the best team in the world :rolleyes:

I know what you're trying to say (I think) and you're right of course. But then my comment was based on observation. I know they didn't win 4:0 but when I think about the second half the game was really over at half time.

WallyGUFC

Boskowski wrote: »

The Arsenal game was over by half time.

The game was over once the ref flashed red unfortunately.

Morzadec

Have to be considered the best team in Europe at the moment, but it would be no surprise at all if the 2 big Spanish teams knocked them out.

Even Atleti have the set up required to test them all the way should they meet later in the CL.

Unstoppable, absolutely not

764dak

People should stop with this "team is unstoppable" stuff. Didn't City beat Bayern earlier in the season? Didn't Chelsea go to a penalty in Super Cup? How many teams have gone unbeaten in all competitions in a season?

Nuri Sahin

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You downplaying anything Bundesliga related should be no surprise to anyone.

Nuri Sahin

Are they that good? Yes, unfortunately. Are they beatable? Of course, like any team!
They're certainly the most well rounded team in Europe with arguably the best depth to any squad, the latter is key.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Idbatterim

of course they are not unstoppable, for some reason this year, I dont have the same confidence in them, yes I think they are the most likely to win the competition, but last year I felt they would pretty much steam roll any of the opposition bar barcelona (which they did) and maybe real... This year Id be hopeful, but wouldnt be so 100% confident that they will a) win it b) annihilate the opposition so consistently...

Sheepy99

Corholio wrote: »

They appeared in 2 finals in 3 years between 98-01 as well, did it take them 'years to rise to the top' as well then?

I think you're confusing me with the person who actually said that....

As well as that they lost both finals, some way away from being on a par with a treble winning season.

Lawrence1895

...and there they are 2:0 up away to Hannover, it not even HT