Fire Alarm installation query

gman2k

Could I get some comments on the fire alarm panel installation as per the attached photos. (I've edited out the installer name on the panel photo)
Should the Fire Alarm have its own RCD on the circuit board, marked as such.
It would appear that it's more than likely powered off the socket circuit.
BTW, this is an installation under 6 months old.
Would it fall under IS3218:2009 or is the IS3218:2013 the standard it would need to be under.
I'm under the belief that the Fire alarm system needs to have a certified design, Fire risk assessment carried out prior to installation?
I would welcome some guidance and/or links to relevant legislation/ guidelines etc.

bertie1

You have not said what type of building it is. Is it in an apartment block & if so it is most likely off the landlords supply?

The building if it is apartment of some sort should have a fire cert. When you say it was installed 6 months ago , is it a replacement job or brand new?

2011

For a start the fire alarm should not be fed from an RCD.
It should be on a dedicated circuit.

gman2k

bertie1 wrote: »

You have not said what type of building it is. Is it in an apartment block & if so it is most likely off the landlords supply?

The building if it is apartment of some sort should have a fire cert. When you say it was installed 6 months ago , is it a replacement job or brand new?

It's rented accommodation.
A renovated two story building, kitchen living and bathrooms at GF,
With 2no. rooms at first floor level- One room is a bedroom for the person being cared for, the other room is a bedroom/ office for the staff.
In essence a stand alone dwelling.
The tenant is a care organisation, who then home one person under their care on the property, and the building is staffed with 1-3 staff (one at night on a sleeping basis).

tomdempsey200

it should be dedicated circuit (no rcd)anyhow... which it doesn't look to be

it shouldn't be spur off lights or sockets circuit

gman2k

2011 wrote: »

For a start the fire alarm should not be fed from an RCD.
It should be on a dedicated circuit.

Thank you. Should this dedicated circuit be marked on the board? How would I recognise it?
All the other circuits are clearly labeled, so I presume the fire panel is fed off one of the as is!

tomdempsey200

an mcb marked fire alarm

gman2k

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

an mcb marked fire alarm

Thank you Tom.
Since this marked MCB is missing from this board, what regulation/ standard can I say the installation is in contravention of?

Sir Arthur Daley

gman2k wrote: »

I would welcome some guidance and/or links to relevant legislation/ guidelines etc.

Have you an official fire certificate of commissioning for this installation?

tomdempsey200

gman2k wrote: »

Thank you Tom.
Since this marked MCB is missing from this board, what regulation/ standard can I say the installation is in contravention of?

ET101: 2008 563.1

"circuits of safety services shall be independent of other circuits"

gman2k

From the manufacturers installations instructions -

"Mains wiring
The requirement for the Mains supply to the fire panel is fixed wiring, using three core cable (no less than 1mm2 and no more than 2.5mm2) or a suitable three conductor system, fed from an isolating switched fused spur, fused at 3A. This should be secure from unauthorised operation and be marked ‘FIRE ALARM: DO NOT SWITCH OFF’. The Mains supply must be exclusive to the fire panel.
(As an alternative to a switched fused spur, a double pole isolating device may be used providing it meets the appropriate national wiring regulations - see diagram below.)" (I've not linked the diag referenced)

So does the above mean that you should not not spur off a lighting or socket circuit?
Sorry for all the questions, I'm not an elec, although I have a construction background!

2011

Tomdempsey has quoted the relevant regulation in his last post.

gman2k

2011 wrote: »

Tomdempsey has quoted the relevant regulation in his last post.

Thanks 2011 & Tom for your patient help:)
To wrap it it, I presume I should just test the existing circuits one by one at the board and switch them off. The one that sets off the fire panel will let me know for sure.
Thanks again.

Sir Arthur Daley

gman2k wrote: »

The one that sets off the fire panel will let me know for sure.

I bet the first one on the top row will isolate it

gman2k

WikiHow wrote: »

I bet the first one on the top row will isolate it

It's wired into the lighting circuit....

tomdempsey200

gman2k wrote: »

It's wired into the lighting circuit....

not great

the etci rules cover that issue


the actual fire alarm installation will be covered by the IS 3218 standard

the last few systems i wired i had them designed and commisioned separately

i wonder is joe bloggs electrician allowed to work on systems anymore without specific standards training

2011

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

i wonder is joe bloggs electrician allowed to work on systems anymore without specific standards training

It is only the designer of the fire alarm system and the certifier that needs to be up to speed with the standards.

Specialist fire alarm companies frequently employ the services of electrical contractors that would not have specific fire alarm training.