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Mexican Drug Cartels

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,440 ✭✭✭Stavros Murphy


    ah yes, because believing that anywhere remotely rural is a "lawless" area where people have to defend themselves against some sort of imaginary threat isn't completely hysterical :rolleyes:

    FWIW: I've lived in the US, and travelled around both it and Mexico.
    Rural America isn't lawless, no more than anywhere else in the civilised world, and the idea that you need a gun to protect yourself is absolute nonsense.
    Large parts of Mexico are completely peaceful and far safer than many urban areas in the US.

    My daughter and her husband are just back from 3 months traveling around Mexico. Neither appears to have lost any limbs and to the best of my knowledge, neither went "packing heat". They said it was very nice and very friendly. Last year they did five weeks in Colombia and then Argentina. They said Medellin was lovely. I'd say you get what you go looking for, as is the case in most countries.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭Temptamperu


    Just had a wee bit of snuffles tonight, cant beat swinging out of herself while getting mashed on binky bonks!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,440 ✭✭✭Stavros Murphy


    Just had a wee bit of snuffles tonight, cant beat swinging out of herself while getting mashed on binky bonks!

    I read that as having a cold, riding and then watching that trailer park wan from the US.

    I'd say I'm missing the gist. Nothing new there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭Fox_In_Socks


    My daughter and her husband are just back from 3 months traveling around Mexico. Neither appears to have lost any limbs and to the best of my knowledge, neither went "packing heat". They said it was very nice and very friendly. Last year they did five weeks in Colombia and then Argentina. They said Medellin was lovely. I'd say you get what you go looking for, as is the case in most countries.

    I pack Heat going down to the local shop for the paper. And a hurley stick with nails stuck in it is in the back seat of the car just in case.

    Mossie McGuinness just down the road from me (4 hours drive) has a spread of 50 acres of middling to boggy ground, but even he won't step outside the door without having a bandolier or 2.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/Afghan_National_Army_Soldier_with_Bandolier_Clips.png

    He says things have gotten even worse since three months ago when some thieves took from old bailing twine that he'd set aside for a rainy day. A month before they took the old rubber tyres that he uses to weigh down the silage in the pit.

    The McGuinness Ranch is under fair pressure, believe me, even without the banditos targeting his fodder consumables. The Sherrif (Garda o Driscall, Patsy The Master's lad, you know him) has issued him a summons about the TV licience for court, oh lads, they've no luck.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭The Diabolical Monocle


    If insanely overpowered weapons weren't available just over the border it probably wouldn't have got this far.
    MadsL wrote: »
    He's wrong. Here's why. Firstly I accept a very high percentage of the weapons are sourced in the US (thank you), but here why ALL guns are not sourced there.

    http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09709.pdf

    Now if you want analysis; try http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110209-mexicos-gun-supply-and-90-percent-myth

    So take it up with him. I never said all the guns were sourced in the US. Feel free to debate the president of Mexico on his grammar within the context of the internal affairs of the country he runs. I wont stop you.
    Afterward you can read my first comment, and realize you just agreed with it.
    MadsL wrote: »
    Actually, you just backed up your opinion with the opinion of a politician.

    You might look up the word 'fact' sometime.


    Yes I backed up my opinion that if insanely overpowered weapons weren't available just over the border it probably wouldn't have got this far, with words from the same country's president who deals with it in depth as a crucial issue and as part of his work on a daily basis.

    Perhaps just a wee bit reliable .... mmmmaybe we can trust the President of Mexico on key issues pertaining to Mexico.
    oh no scratch that, he's a politician, somehow benefiting from this ... although Christ only knows how.


    And then with the words of the bloody cartel boss himself. lol.

    Fact -
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact

    A truth known by actual experience or observation.

    (your link kindly gives the observation by the ATF)

    "Available evidence indicates many of the firearms fueling Mexican drug
    violence originated in the United States, including a growing number of
    increasingly lethal weapons. While it is impossible to know how many
    firearms are illegally smuggled into Mexico in a given year, about 87 percent
    of firearms seized by Mexican authorities and traced in the last 5 years
    originated in the United States, according to data from Department of
    Justice’s Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF)"

    "If insanely overpowered weapons weren't available just over the border it probably wouldn't have got this far."

    Tell me if the above quote is a fact.
    Or wriggle around in denial, pedantics and obfuscation. Your choice.

    tum ti tum...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 800 ✭✭✭CB19Kevo


    Hard to watch and i have reported your post, However i know there is no bad intention behind it as this highlights issues in a clear cut way.
    These scum need to be wiped from the earth.. Hard to believe with the tech and amazing minds that are out there that there is still such vermin in our society.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    ah yes, because believing that anywhere remotely rural is a "lawless" area where people have to defend themselves against some sort of imaginary threat isn't completely hysterical :rolleyes:

    FWIW: I've lived in the US, and travelled around both it and Mexico.
    Rural America isn't lawless, no more than anywhere else in the civilised world, and the idea that you need a gun to protect yourself is absolute nonsense.
    Large parts of Mexico are completely peaceful and far safer than many urban areas in the US.

    I did not say rural America was lawless. I said, and note the distinction,
    why, when faced with lawlessness in remote areas, Americans feel the need to be prepared to defend themselves

    Unless you are trying to maintain that there simply is no crime in rural America, then you are misrepresenting what I said in the most asinine way. What I am saying is that often when faced with crime, Americans feel that this is something they can take care of themselves as often the law is a long way away.

    As you rightly point out parts of Mexico are beautiful, safe and great places for tourists to visit. However for me to drive there due south involves the joys of driving through the hell hole called Ciudad Juárez, which in 2009 was the number 1 murder city in the world. Police currently have over 1000 unsolved murders of women on their books. I don't advise it for a pleasant weekend trip really.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    So take it up with him. I never said all the guns were sourced in the US. Feel free to debate the president of Mexico on his grammar within the context of the internal affairs of the country he runs. I wont stop you.
    Afterward you can read my first comment, and realize you just agreed with it.

    You seem to think I am taking issue with the idea that US bought guns are available to criminals over the border. I am not. I am taking issue with the blaming of the US for the way in which Mexico has allowed the cartels to ruin its country and that includes trying an utterly failed guncontrol legislation keeping guns away from lawful citizens whilst allowing cartels to run almost unfettered with massive corruption of the police. No wonder its president is looking around for a scapegoat.

    Let me follow your argument here, US made and sold guns show up in Mexico where they are used for criminal ends. This is the fault of US gun laws. Therefore the preference in the early 70s by the IRA for American made and sold Armalite AR18s means that everyone shot by the IRA should blame the Americans.
    Yes I backed up my opinion that if insanely overpowered weapons weren't available just over the border it probably wouldn't have got this far, with words from the same country's president who deals with it in depth as a crucial issue and as part of his work on a daily basis.

    Perhaps just a wee bit reliable .... mmmmaybe we can trust the President of Mexico on key issues pertaining to Mexico.
    oh no scratch that, he's a politician, somehow benefiting from this ... although Christ only knows how.
    Benefiting? As a politician, I can't think how....:rolleyes:
    And he would have no reason to be casting the blame elsewhere of course...


    And then with the words of the bloody cartel boss himself. lol.

    Fact -
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact

    A truth known by actual experience or observation.

    (your link kindly gives the observation by the ATF)

    "Available evidence indicates many of the firearms fueling Mexican drug
    violence originated in the United States, including a growing number of
    increasingly lethal weapons. While it is impossible to know how many
    firearms are illegally smuggled into Mexico in a given year, about 87 percent
    of firearms seized by Mexican authorities and traced in the last 5 years
    originated in the United States, according to data from Department of
    Justice’s Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF)"

    Many, not ALL.

    "If insanely overpowered weapons weren't available just over the border it probably wouldn't have got this far."

    US stores are not selling them hand-grenades now are they...?
    Tell me if the above quote is a fact.
    It is a fact that contradicts the Mexican president's assertion about all firearms, no?
    Or wriggle around in denial, pedantics and obfuscation. Your choice.

    tum ti tum...

    So. I'll just wait here for you to actually respond to the ATF report analysis and accept that arguing about the sources of firearms is a bit pointless. Do you think that if the cartels no longer got US firearms tomorrow they would have any issue at all in sourcing firearms elsewhere?

    Your complaint is like the person cracked over the head with a baseball ball blaming the MLB.

    Unless of course you simply want to find yet another thing to criticise the US for? But that couldn't possibly your motivation here, could it? :P


  • Posts: 50,630 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Toxic7 wrote: »
    All for that white powder.This is only the tip of the ice berg when it comes to Mexico.As cruel as it is most people don't know this happens.Its wrong.
    I will be banned very soon for showing the truth.


    <snip>

    Mod

    I'm not sure what the content of the video actually is as I have no intention of watching it. Please drop me a PM with a brief description. Thanks.

    Edit: Well seeing as you ignored this and re-added the clip to your post instead, you've earned a siteban. Good job.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭The Diabolical Monocle


    My original post:
    If (b) insanely overpowered weapons (b) weren't available (d) just over the border (d) -- (c) it (c) -- (a) probably(a) wouldn't have got this far.


    Heres a quote from the link you yourself supplied. It proves my post to be correct.

    "Available evidence indicates many (*see a) of the firearms (*see b) fueling Mexican drug violence (*see c) originated in the United States (*see D) , including a growing number of
    increasingly lethal weapons. While it is impossible to know how many
    firearms are illegally smuggled into Mexico in a given year, about 87 percent
    of firearms seized by Mexican authorities and traced in the last 5 years
    originated in the United States, according to data from Department of
    Justice’s Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF)"


    MadsL wrote: »
    I am taking issue with the blaming of the US for the way in which Mexico has allowed the cartels to ruin its country

    I never blamed the US for Mexico's shortcomings on crime control/law enforcement.

    Let me follow your argument here, US made and sold guns show up in Mexico where they are used for criminal ends. This is the fault of US gun laws.

    Not my words. Yours. Strawman.
    I would blame the gun-runner for them showing up in Mexico.

    "If insanely overpowered weapons weren't available just over the border it probably wouldn't have got this far."

    Is this true ? Yes or no.
    Therefore the preference in the early 70s by the IRA for American made and sold Armalite AR18s means that everyone shot by the IRA should blame the Americans.
    Not my words. Yours. Strawman.
    I'd blame whoever pulled the trigger if I was one of those shot.

    Many, not ALL.
    I never said all.
    US stores are not selling them hand-grenades now are they...
    No. Just insanely overpowered weapons.
    It is a fact that contradicts the Mexican president's assertion about all firearms, no?
    I can't speak for the Mexican president at this time.
    (Secretary keeps putting me on hold.)
    (maybe you could write letter of complaint correcting his off the cuff use of the word ALL with the more specific 87% as found by the ATF)
    So. I'll just wait here for you to actually respond to the ATF report analysis and accept that arguing about the sources of firearms is a bit pointless.

    Here I am responding to the ATF report analysis. I find it to agree with my original post.

    Me - "If insanely overpowered weapons weren't available just over the border it probably wouldn't have got this far."

    ATF - "about 87 percent
    of firearms seized by Mexican authorities and traced in the last 5 years
    originated in the United States"




    Unless of course you simply want to find yet another thing to criticise the US for? But that couldn't possibly your motivation here, could it? :P

    No. Its not.
    Anything else ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 919 ✭✭✭Joe prim


    pconn062 wrote: »
    Interesting blog here detailing the activities of the cartels.

    http://www.elblogdelnarco.info/

    It's all writ in forren!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    My original post:
    If (b) insanely overpowered weapons (b) weren't available (d) just over the border (d) -- (c) it (c) -- (a) probably(a) wouldn't have got this far.


    Heres a quote from the link you yourself supplied. It proves my post to be correct.

    "Available evidence indicates many (*see a) of the firearms (*see b) fueling Mexican drug violence (*see c) originated in the United States (*see D) , including a growing number of
    increasingly lethal weapons. While it is impossible to know how many
    firearms are illegally smuggled into Mexico in a given year, about 87 percent
    of firearms seized by Mexican authorities and traced in the last 5 years
    originated in the United States, according to data from Department of
    Justice’s Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF)"

    Except that the ATF report does not reach your conclusion Z "probably would haven't got this far". I think it absolutely niave to think that criminals in Mexico would not be armed if the US border was closed completely or all guns in the US vanished overnight.

    That figure is also the 87% of guns tested by ATF, not the total number of guns in Mexico.
    I never blamed the US for Mexico's shortcomings on crime control/law enforcement.

    You appear to be blaming US gun policy. Mexico's own gun policy also facilitates legal gun importation by Mexican citizens who hold dual nationality. Is that also at fault?
    Not my words. Yours. Strawman.
    I would blame the gun-runner for them showing up in Mexico.
    OK that would appear to be where the blame should be directed.
    "If insanely overpowered weapons weren't available just over the border it probably wouldn't have got this far."

    Is this true ? Yes or no.
    "Insanely overpowered" appears pejorative for one. "Available" implies that the guns are not subject to controls, which they are, and "probably" means no-one can be sure. So I would challenge the accuracy of your statement.

    Let me refer you back to this article. http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110209-mexicos-gun-supply-and-90-percent-myth and some of the firepower in use and its origin. It is by no means clear that the entire origin of such firearms is the US.
    Not my words. Yours. Strawman.
    I'd blame whoever pulled the trigger if I was one of those shot.

    But presumably you would agree if we inserted the IRA into your original comment, If (b) insanely overpowered weapons (b) weren't available (d) in the US (d) -- (c) the IRA(c) -- (a) probably(a) wouldn't have got this far.

    Would that be true?
    I never said all.
    Fair point. It is just the only place you appear to be pointing the finger.
    No. Just insanely overpowered weapons.

    What exactly is such a firearm?
    I can't speak for the Mexican president at this time.
    (Secretary keeps putting me on hold.)
    (maybe you could write letter of complaint correcting his off the cuff use of the word ALL with the more specific 87% as found by the ATF)
    He is no longer President, this may be why.
    Here I am responding to the ATF report analysis. I find it to agree with my original post.
    Me - "If insanely overpowered weapons weren't available just over the border it probably wouldn't have got this far."
    ATF - "about 87 percent
    of firearms seized by Mexican authorities and traced in the last 5 years
    originated in the United States"

    You appreciate that sample sizes can be deceiving.

    And given this, what exactly do you propose the US do about this? My view would be to end the war by legalisation...what is your solution?
    No. Its not.
    Noted.
    Anything else ?
    Cup of tea if you are in the kitchen there...:p


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