Education and climbing Garda Ranks

thestar

I have applied for the guards. I have a law Degree from an I.T and I am now doing a masters in law in a University. If however I get word in April that I have passed an interview then I would be very tempted to pull out of the course. Would the masters in law be of much benefit to me in the force for progression within the force?

TDA2

When would you be finished your degree? If you pass the interview, when would you start, or what's left?

DesertCreat_15

thestar wrote: »

I have applied for the guards. I have a law Degree from an I.T and I am now doing a masters in law in a University. If however I get word in April that I have passed an interview then I would be very tempted to pull out of the course. Would the masters in law be of much benefit to me in the force for progression within the force?

Just in case you didn't notice, you're in the PSNI Recruitment forum.

I don't believe a master would be of huge benefit to you in AGS, however the law degree would be of benefit to you IMO. Especially when it comes to book of evidence preparation and cross examination in court.

I'm not entirely surely if the HQ has a team of civilians doing the law end of things on behalf of AGS or actual members, though if it is a situation were it is AGS members, then perhaps the masters would be of benefit to you!

TDA2

DesertCreat_15 wrote: »

Just in case you didn't notice, you're in the PSNI Recruitment forum.

Maybe he knows something we don't!
Or its cross border co-operation!

Lmklad

When do you finish your Masters? Might be worth postponing (assuming you get past interview). All Gardai must usually do a minimum of 3 years standard duties before promotion/specialising. If you have a degree/masters it will advance you on the pay scale after probation. Promotion is done on internal exams and interviews. Any degrees etc will defiantly be good on the cv if you want to move off the regular units.

DesertCreat_15

A degree etc won't advance us on the payscale, that allowance/bonus has been discarded along with the rent allowance etc

Shield

Moderator note: Moved from PSNI Recruitment to Garda Recruitment on 23/02/2014 @ 7:50am with redirect expiring in 7 days.

Qualitymark

If you got the job could you continue the degree by correspondence?

mfergus

May benefit a bit at interview stage. There are a good few lads with law degrees there!

FGR

My advice would be to defer the offer into the Garda College until after you've completed the masters. It will be of great benefit to you as regards going up the ranks; bearing in mind that many senior ranks get legal qualifications to assist the dpp in directing minor matters.

Deferrals are fine and depending on the frequency of intakes could be from a 3 month to a 6 month stay on starting in Templemore. Some have sought longer and have succeeded.

Andrea345

FGR wrote: »

My advice would be to defer the offer into the Garda College until after you've completed the masters. It will be of great benefit to you as regards going up the ranks; bearing in mind that many senior ranks get legal qualifications to assist the dpp in directing minor matters.

Deferrals are fine and depending on the frequency of intakes could be from a 3 month to a 6 month stay on starting in Templemore. Some have sought longer and have succeeded.

I'm not sure you can do that. I would say do the masters part-time over a longer period 2 years and see if it's manageable. It's a tough call really. If they are still young enough and have time to reapply then they could wait for the next campaign but I'm not sure it's something I would risk doing. If the AGS is something they have always wanted to do and they wont get tempted by another job relating to law then ultimately I would drop the masters if I got into Templemore. That's if I couldn't do it part time.

A Masters would benefit you as a person and also would be useful in AGS. Depending on what stage you are at, dissertation or classwork in a taught masters, I would try to finish it in the future someway. You could always go back after a few years and maybe work on your dissertation before then in your spare time. It would be difficult but you might be able to manage it.

FGR

Andrea345 wrote: »

I'm not sure you can do that. I would say do the masters part-time over a longer period 2 years and see if it's manageable. It's a tough call really. If they are still young enough and have time to reapply then they could wait for the next campaign but I'm not sure it's something I would risk doing. If the AGS is something they have always wanted to do and they wont get tempted by another job relating to law then ultimately I would drop the masters if I got into Templemore. That's if I couldn't do it part time.

A Masters would benefit you as a person and also would be useful in AGS. Depending on what stage you are at, dissertation or classwork in a taught masters, I would try to finish it in the future someway. You could always go back after a few years and maybe work on your dissertation before then in your spare time. It would be difficult but you might be able to manage it.

Several people in my group had deferred from previous intakes. Granted the call is made by the powers that be but if they can accommodate you they will - especially as the extra qualification will benefit the state, too.

thestar

Thanks everybody, much appreciated, have plenty of hoops to jump through before i have to make this decision but hopefully i will

unattendedbag

Law degree will be a great help during your first few years of being a guard as a lot of your time is spent trying to get your head around all the laws and practices and procedures of the courts, so any criminal law you have studied up until now will really pay off. If possible I would recommend trying to do the masters part time while working as you will have the time and it won't be any use to you right now. After a period of service when you are looking for promotion or technical position then you can use your Masters qualification to your advantage. It's not of any huge benefit during the early stages of your career.

On a side note for serious applicants, have a browse through the main criminal acts used by gardai in their work everyday, such as the criminal justice act, public order act, theft and fraud offences act, non-fatal offences against the person act, road traffic act etc, and particularly any articles on interpretationof the law. It's the bread and butter work of AGS and although its drummed into you in templemore, a headstart can make it easier. Also follow on going court cases in the media and read up on court reports particularly district court cases.

Scouser

unattendedbag wrote: »

Also follow on going court cases in the media and read up on court reports particularly district court cases.

a trip to the district courts in the CCJ is not only educational but eye opening!!

El_Triboy

Actually that comment was a bad call. I meant the OP no harm, I was referring to the title more so than his post. Apologies for an out of character knee jerk there but I still stand by my comment in general that if your going in with the intention of climbing the ladder as quickly as possible then I'd have little time for those kind of people

WilcoOut

El_Triboy wrote: »

try and be a Guard first and serve the community, ladder climbing is what makes useless management

The OP wants to know if education is of benefit to potential career progression

OP also wants to know if a Law degree would be of benefit to an officer in the national police force





Speechless

Andrea345

El_Triboy wrote: »

Actually that comment was a bad call. I meant the OP no harm, I was referring to the title more so than his post. Apologies for an out of character knee jerk there but I still stand by my comment in general that if your going in with the intention of climbing the ladder as quickly as possible then I'd have little time for those kind of people

I'm slightly confused, are you saying you have no time for people who want to get into certain units? What is your reasoning behind this. All candidates know they have to serve their time as a regular AGS. Are you really discouraging people to aim higher in something that they may be qualified in or have an interest in? I would encourage people absolutely aim higher if they have the skills and qualifications to get them there but be aware that the opportunity may not arise. Such negativity on this board God forbid if people aspire to do anything else above the norm. Some people have an interest in the force at any level and they may have additional skills that may be useful. This comment just comes across petty and jealous. Sorry I mean no offence.

Raider190

WilcoOut wrote: »

The OP wants to know if education is of benefit to potential career progression

OP also wants to know if a Law degree would be of benefit to an officer in the national police force





Speechless

Seems like a fairly intelligent question to me.

Some of my colleagues have degrees one in particular has a BCL and this was significant in her getting a position in the park .she does have 10 years experience in the regular which includes 2 in DDU but she definitely feels it was her degree that got her the new role

thestar

A new position in the park?

Raider190

thestar wrote: »

A new position in the park?

Garda HQ Phoneix Park Dublin

Scouser

Raider190 wrote: »

Seems like a fairly intelligent question to me.

Some of my colleagues have degrees one in particular has a BCL and this was significant in her getting a position in the park .she does have 10 years experience in the regular which includes 2 in DDU but she definitely feels it was her degree that got her the new role

its quite obvious the benefit

how anyone would need to ask

thats the unintelligent part


seems it was lost on you too raider

Andrea345

Scouser wrote: »

its quite obvious the benefit

how anyone would need to ask

thats the unintelligent part


seems it was lost on you too raider

In all fairness to the person posting, if you read between the lines he/she wasn't just asking would it be of benefit, he/she was asking for more than that. They was asking for advice on continuing education if they were to get in and how they would go about doing that without dropping the masters all together. I don't think they deserve to have people ridicule them when all they were doing was asking for advice. It was a genuine question and there was nothing unintelligent about that.

Scouser

thestar wrote: »

Would the masters in law be of much benefit to me in the force for progression within the force?

i think WilcoOut is referring to this exact question

Andrea345

Scouser wrote: »

i think WilcoOut is referring to this exact question

You are forgetting the rest of the comment and the background information given behind it. Why are they asking this.... because they might have to pull out of the masters. Essentially what they are asking is, would the masters itself be of benefit or should they pull out of it if they get a place with AGS.

Scouser

Andrea345 wrote: »

You are forgetting the rest of the comment and the background information given behind it. Why are they asking this.... because they might have to pull out of the masters. Essentially what they are asking is, would the masters itself be of benefit or should they pull out of it if they get a place with AGS.

im not forgetting anything

just clarifying what wilco was pointing out

thestar

I'm doing a masters in law but most of my subjects are not related to AGS in any way, shape or form. Tha's why I was wondering..

Raider190

Scouser wrote: »

its quite obvious the benefit

how anyone would need to ask

thats the unintelligent part


seems it was lost on you too raider

It may be but we are here to help not to pour scorn . So I will continue to help and offer advice where I can

Raider190

thestar wrote: »

I'm doing a masters in law but most of my subjects are not related to AGS in any way, shape or form. Tha's why I was wondering..

Continue with your studies . All of the senior management within AGS are graduates .some enter into the service with degrees or obtain them when they are serving members but the fact is they all gave them

Scouser

Raider190 wrote: »

Continue with your studies . All of the senior management within AGS are graduates .some enter into the service with degrees or obtain them when they are serving members but the fact is they all gave them

heres a flavour of a senior officers quals taken from garda.ie

• Post Graduate Diploma in Conflict & Dispute Resoluton Studies

• MSc - Masters Degree in Police Leadership

• Post Graduate Diploma in Employment Law

• Post Graduate Garda Executive Leadership Diploma

• Post Graduate Diploma in Project Management

• Post Graduate Diploma in Management Information Systems

• MBA - Masters Degree in Business Administration Hons

• Post Graduate Diploma in Advanced Management,

• LLB - Bachelor of Laws Hons

• Certificate in Supervisory Management

Santa Cruz

The Certificate in Supervisory Mangement one. Is that from Harvard or Yale?

WilcoOut

Santa Cruz wrote: »

The Certificate in Supervisory Mangement one. Is that from Harvard or Yale?

He spelled yale with a 6

With that score youd have to donate enough money to build a new airport

Yale could do with a new airport

Thecameraman

One step at a time.

Alfasudcrazy

Degrees of course will be a help to you for promotions and doing the actual job but beware that there can be some 'animosities' for want of a better word from some colleagues / superiors to degree holders - especially if they don't have any.

So I wouldn't go in quoting the law on everything in your first week etc if you get my drift.

Little CuChulainn

A degree level education should bump you 3 levels on the pay scale once your probation is up, and it's back dated. If you have a good leaving cert you get another bump. So from a financial aspect alone it's good to have an education.

As to career advancement, it depends on what you mean. A legal degree might get you into the legal section easy enough if that's what you are looking for but it won't do as much when going for other areas. It will still stand to you but it won't be a smoking gun. A masters in a newer area might help, such as data protection law or one with a cybercrime focus. There are Gardaí out there that have literally invented jobs for themselves by getting the right education.